I had already posted this in Last week’s Saturday Salon, but got lost in the chatter.
Here is the Late Jim angel, who died on Xmas Eve with part of a 2SM News Bulletin from the day after Gough’s Election Win in 1972, as posted on RAdio Historian’s Wayne Mac’s website.
More fun.
frank,
If that was a sound file, I couldn’t open it. No sound card, and I don’t have the necessary file to get sound without a sound card, and probably coulkdn’;t get it now because MS doesn’t maintain Windows 98 anymore. Not complaining, just saying.
1. Humans are just another specie, one of thousands. They are no more important than any other life form.
2. The world, which is home to all life forms, is not here for the exclusive use of human animals.
3. The concept of god is nothing more than a fanciful figment of human imagination, one created to allow the human ego to avoid the reality of its mortality and insignificance.
Hi Frank hope you had a happy Christmas and your new year is good as well,only 4 more days to re-engage the mind again,stop avoiding the cricket(sorry thats wrong keep avoiding the Cricket) and return to the land of the living.
Year one of Kevin I hope its an interesting year for all,hes going well so far I think anyway,take it easy
All media including ABC do not mention his name without prefacing it with “convicted terrorist”. The propaganda machine continues on with well oiled precision.
I discovered a milk crate full of very old forgotten homebrew yesterday. In defiance of all the rules, it unexpectedly hadn’t deteriorated, it was delicious, and it only got better into the second longneck. I might try leaving the stuff for longer, because most of the homebrew I’ve ever made has been rubbish.
Paul, if you’re irritated significantly by the non-currency of your operating system, give ubuntu a whirl. It does wonders for low-end systems, or at least it has done for my ageing laptop, which now bounces along. (I don’t know about a sound card though).
Pyzo, the joke’s getting old, you’re flogging a dead… ahem.
Re David Hicks.
Terry Hicks sums it up admirably. “He’s done his time so let him get on with his life.” I await David Hicks’s revelations later on in 2008 with great interest.
Liam,
I’ve heard about Linux and have has it recommended to me by a few people who don’t like Microsofty for ideological reasons. Unfortunately, I’m too paranoid to do anything about it because my Windows 98 isn’t too frustrating. I can’t get sound, and some -well, no, all YouTube videos are slow. Basically, the remaining vestiges of the technophobe in me which are very few, is/are terrified I’ll muck up a system which works pretty well for me. I use it mostly as a glorified typewriter, for internet research and blogging. But thanks, anyway. Much appreciated.
I do alarm some of my computer geek friends, but they’re impressed I make the effort, unlike a poet friend of mine who still uses a typewriter and who, and remarked on having the virtues of a desktop/laptop extolled to him, remarked that Proust thought the telephone was a newfangled piece of technology.
Paul, i am a bit like you and fear mucking around with something, computer wise, that might stuff things up completely. My teenager suggests that ubuntu might be best bought as a cheap disc via ebay as it is pretty long download. Kind of goes against the free software thing but below the price of a reasonable bottle of red.
Oh, you’re here. I kept looking at the old feed. Liam, how about the tiredness factor in your aged homebrew. As someone pointed out to me, if you open a bottle of homey, you’re not going anywhere? Is it the extra sand at the bottom that makes all home brew extra stupefying.
I have once made a 13-14% ginger beer. Very nice.
Well I was certainly tired by the time I finished, WoP.
I’ve had good experiences with ginger beers too. Never found out the alcohol content of the best one, except to the extent that it sat you down and kept you there for the rest of the afternoon. As my brewing colleague commented:
Fruity, well-carbonated, not too malty, and do I detect a swift kick in the goolies? Yes.
You are starting to get me motivated to brave the cobwebs and shed to see how the Coopers home brew stash stacks up after 3 years.
Hell, i can just pretend i decided to do a bit of clearing out and win brownie points all round.
Joe2,
As another part of my protest against the modern world, I don’t have a credit card. On my low fixed income the temptation to verspend and end up heavily in debt, which I’nm not at the moment, would be immense.
Though I have bgeen tempted to get a debit card to buy some books on Amazon that are hard to get. I’m sure the books will win out and I’ll get it organised eventually.
Yea David Hicks,I see the usual vocal minority have had their way and he is free,maybe we should award him the Victoria Cross,or at least hand him over to veterans affairs to look after.After all he is an x soldier,the fact not one of ours, should be o/k though.I just may invite him to our next R.S.L. reunion piss up.
Paul, you can do not need a credit or debit card to set up a paypal arrangement, any more. Any old local bank account with bugger all in it and you are away to buy things on ebay and amazon. That simple.
Wolfe was saying she saw No Country for Old Men, and, didnt like it - but I saw it the other day and thought it was really very good.
I think Javier Bardem’s performance was really quite compelling (maybe cause Ive met a few who were on the way to being him). A psychopath with a crazy beatle hairdo (an incongruent vanity, a rogue strain of humanity, out of place with the personification of violence that is the funciton of this character?) who has no empathy to offer, but when confronted with situations which demand humanity, offers the toss of the coin in its place. His weapon of choice is enought to turn you vegetarian in one sitting, thats all I have to say about that. This is the personality that has inherited the earth that is American border of Texas. There are themes of fate, chance, the inexorability of violence, the flimsiness of the past with its conceits, etc….you can see the elegiac strains of Cormac McCarthy’s writing behind it all.
I thought it was good, Hollywood is not always crass, and who else to comment on America but Americans IMO, sometimes they get it very right. And with Mr McCarthy’s writing informing the script, how could they really get it too wrong?
“His weapon of choice is enought to turn you vegetarian in one sitting, thats all I have to say about that.”
Have not seen it casey but I would have thought that wolfe was pretty keen on that idea. Why the resistance to the movie in general? She seemed most adamant.
Joe2,
Thanks for that. Will check it out with my local bank.
Gaz,
Not again. We’ve been through all that boring s**t on another thread and it got so bad they had to shut it down. Don’t spoil our Saturday fun.
“In short: nasty, vacuous, nihilistic, derivative and boring as sludge.”
So I guess she didnt find it all that interesting. While it certainly can be interpreted as nihilism, I rather see it as an interesting elegy for a lost America (which only ever existed in the imagination anyway). But then maybe Im reading the transcendentalist forefathers of American literature into McCarthy’s story. I dont know.
No Country for Old Men. I suppose this might be a bit irrelevant but David and Magaret both gave it 5 stars I think on the ABC Movie show a couple of weeks ago. Interesting to hear divergent views on it. Makes me want to see it even more. But Tommy Lee Jones playing the sheriff chasing the baddie. He’s getting a bit typecast there, isn’t he? Though he does it so well in the movies I have seen.Javier Bardem never puts a foot wrong. He was compelling as the young Che Geuvara Bildesrung movie.
I’m with you on this one Paul. If Gaz were serious about dialogue he wouldn’t be couching his points in the rhetoric that he does. Probably best to ignore it though, and wait for him to get bored or decide to approach things differently.
Paul, I have a free, old SoundBlaster here that has windows 98 drivers if you want it. Let me know. I’ll be back at work next week we can organise to meet at the university or something.
David,
That would be lovely. In town would be better, as I’m a bit slow on my feet.Not at uni nowadays. But otherwise can make uni.You can get my e-mail address from LP or ring me. Only one in phone book. Not tonight,until The Bill is over. but any other time. If I’m on line leave a message and I’ll ring back almost immediately.Then we can make arrangements. You’d have to help me transport and instal it if that’s not a problem as I don’t have transport or full use of my left hand.And show me how to operate it.Maybe you could drive over for a coffee. (I don’t have any grog on hand.) Look forward to meeting you. Or do you already know me and I can’t put a face to the name?
Good to meet another LP-er. If I’d been in the cities I would have gone to one of their Xmas p**s ups.
Thanks very much.
I ran, until extremely recently (a matter of weeks) an old Windows 98 machine too, which coincidentally had a non-functioning soundcard. It certainly can be done. And this was used mainly for print graphic design. It was far, far, from ideal but I kept it going for years beyond what any ‘normal person’ would. In the end the power board thingie fried one day. As far as I know the actual system could have kept going indefinitely.
It’s nice to have a newer computer now. But I’ll always be about four years behind the times, at least.
And no credit cards for me thanks very much. The new debit cards seem to be quite handy for any odd CD (music shops no longer stock actual good music) or book off Amazon. It’s just my cash, so that’s good.
“I’m with you on this one Paul. If Gaz were serious about dialogue he wouldn’t be couching his points in the rhetoric that he does. Probably best to ignore it though, and wait for him to get bored or decide to approach things differently.”
Spare me your patronizing clap trap. My rhetoric (your words) is no better or less than any other on this here blog,the way I will couch my comments with as much pathos and rhetoric as I like.
Who made you adjudicator on what is a good or indifferent basis for a debate ?.
Well just my two bobs worth,if a move has a good story line I enjoy it,dont care if its rolling in blood and guts,I like a good film violent or not.
Unless its got Adam Sandler then I will walk on the other side of the street,i don,t think he could act his way out of a wet paper bag and theres a few others like him.
John Ryan,
I think you are pretty right about Adam Sandler.I think there was one movie he was in which was a drama that he was supposed to be very good in, but most of his stuff is B-grade Hollywood pulp. I’ve never been to the movies to see him, or got any of his work out on DVD, but the snippets I’ve caught on TV made me cringe.
At the moment I’m hanging out to see the new National treasure movie. Watched the first one 3 times on DVD and went round recommending it to everyone. Any reports, LP-ers?
Paul the soundblaster would need to be installed into the computer box without much difficulty or cost by a techy. Ubuntu can be bought as a “live CD” and used or not used as the mood takes you. Paypal has proved completely harmless to a set aside ordinary bank account with very little cash in it despite my initial paranoia.
John Greenfield, I have not looked at Australian historiography in any great detail, but I think John Docker and Ann Curthoy’s recent ‘Is History Fiction?’ is a good overview of western historiography that frames contemporary debates in an interesting way, and even contributes a little, although is a bit light on detail.
I am so glad you mentioned Curthoys and Docker’s Is History Fiction? It is also ironic, given your earlier suggestion that my readings of twentieth century philosophy were derived from KW. In fact, my main secondary source for postmodern/poststructuralist historiography was - and remains - IHF! Forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the impression you are an humanities academic who is very attracted to the postit view of the world. I think it is quite clear, I am less enamoured. But that’s OK. There’s a hell of a lot more wonder, beauty, and fun in the world than just epistemological disagreements!
IHF is very - perhaps even extremely - well-written. It is aimed at people such as myself; undergraduate historians with little to no formal exposure to either postit philosophy or academic historiography. It is clear that a huge amount of editing and revising has gone into the book: The sentences are very clear and efficient; the meanings of - and differences/similarities between - postmodernism and poststructuralism are carefully explained, and judicious examples of historiography are chosen to highlight these similarities and differences.
The tone is among the most measured and sober I have ever read in an academic book, and given the potentially very dry subject matter, there is just enough verve to pleasantly relieve the reader of any dread in approaching the topic. The quality of the writing and the exposition became clear when they declared the book had been ten years in making, ever since the couple began teaching historiography courses at firstly UTS in the early 1990s, and more recently at ANU where Curthoys is currently a professor of Australian history and Docker is a Cultural Studies academic. You are probably already aware their son - Ned - is also a Cultural Studies type, also employed at the ANU. Cosy, huh?
Is History Fiction has become one of those books that never gets put back on the bookshelf. It always on the bedside table, desk, or in the stack of books next to my desk. There would be few weeks when I do not dip into it at least once, and even though I only bought it (nearly) two years ago, it is filled with blue, black, red, and green underlinings; orange, yellow, blue, and green, highlighter; and endless margin commentary.
Aside from the clear language and very useful introductions to these complex concepts and the nuances that present themselves in history-writing, Is History Fiction’s usefulness is further enhanced by a clear structuring around eleven well-defined chapters (plus Introduction) such as “Has History any Meaning� (it does) “The Linguistic Turn,� “Postmodernism and Poststructiralism,� “Anti-Postmodernism and the Holocaust� and “History Wars.� But the book’s primary organisational device is the world’s first two historians - Herodotus and Thucydides.
The Histories and History of the Peloponnesian War are the focus of the first two chapters, and the methodological differences that C&D attribute to H&T provide the marinade for the rest of the book. Barely a page passes, without the discussion coming back once again to H and/or T. This historogenetic (probably a horrible neologism I just made up, but I think it is apt) role of H & T has pluses and minuses. But let’s leave them for another day.
The book’s great strength is in explicitly addressing C&D’s concern (a very valid one, to be sure) that many academics do not do justice to postit historiography, and misrepresent it with straw men about “no such thing as truth,� “anything goes,’ “moral relativism,� etc. Complaints I have no doubt you, yourself, probably are well aware of.
I found extremely valuable C&D’s outlining the differences between postmodernism’s focus on upsetting hierarchies and destabilisng notions of genre privilege (eg. a diplomatic document MUST be more valid than say a poster, or a poem) and poststructuralism’s focus on the role that language, more broadly “texts,� plays in creating, and indeed imposing a “reality� onto the past. As you would appreciate much more than I, this is where the book’s title comes from.
Thus, as well as well-known books that have been traditionally categorised as academic history by scholars such as Herodotus, Thucydides, Leopold von Ranke, Marx/Engels EH Carr, Lawrence Stone, EP Thompson, Henry Reynolds, Richard Evans, and Peter Novick, C&D also consider scholars/writers who are not traditionally considered to be historians, or indeed writing proper academic ‘history.� Examples of these include Rousseau, Hannah Arendt, Sir Walter Scott, Flaubert, Nietzsche, Heiddeger, Edward Said, Walter Benjamin, Roland Barthes, and films such as Akira Kurosawa‘s Rashomon.
While they reveal (to a degree appropriate to a relative novice, comme moi), Derrida’s On Grammatology and Writing and Difference, Foucault’s The Archaeology of Knowledge and Order of Things, they do so very usefully by integrating these works within the broader evolution of post-enlightenment epistemological thinking that Derrida, Foucault, and other postits represent. For example, Derrida is placed explicitly within the context of his critique/response to the structuralism of Levi-Strauss, which opens a welcomingly clear exposition of what Derrida did and did not mean by il n’y a pas de horse-texte. Following immediately, as it does, a discussion of Derrida’s critique of Levi-Strauss’s anthropology’s base in the privileging of writing over ‘mere’ speech.
A great light turned on for me when C&D explained that Derrida’s signature aphorism used ‘text’ in a far more universal way than merely printed books and documents that have traditionally enjoyed an exclusive classification as ‘text.’ C&D explain that “for Derrida, writing designates the broadest of phenomena; writing is everything that gives rise to inscription, in any kind of markings, as in the pictographic and the ideographic, the hieroglyphic, the cuneiform, from the distant past to the present, in choreography as in cinematography…Writing is aural and well as visual, the musical as well as the pictorial and sculptural.� (p.147) With this clear explanation under my belt and elementary study of cognition, perception, and memory, I was able to frame my ancient history essay (the one you have made suggestions to get published) on the “intertextuality� of evidence for protean Saidian ‘Orientalism’ in ancient Greece.
In relation to Foucault, the critique of Marxism, the influence of Nietzsche, and Croce are useful, as is their situating the work of Edward Said and much of the post 1980s revolution in gender historiography in the context of Foucault’s connections of truth, language, and power; to wit, “discourse.� There is also a welcome expression of some discomfort with Foucault’s later work, in which he appeared to adopt the same ‘totalising discourse’ that he was otherwise committed to rejecting. In fact, much of his post 1970 writing employs the kind of epistemological associations - hence, therefore, emergence, and intention - that his critique of positivist and empiricist historiography was designed to reject.
I personally found this critique of Focuault by C&D refreshing, as their book is otherwise avowedly a defence of postit historiography (and yes, I am mildly aware of those debates that question whether Foucault - and even Derrida - can justifiably be described as postit. Though for me, life is too short…). Further, I had encountered Foucualt’s History of Sexuality the semester before when I wrote a Research Essay on ancient Greek homosexuality. I had been quite critical of Foucault and those classicist/historians who had become his groupies on the subject such as classicist/Queer Theorist David Halperin as well as a number of gender feminist types.
The penultimate chapter - “Anti-Postmodernism and the Holocaust� - is, unsurprisingly, a discussion about Holocaust denial and particularly empiricist historian Richard Evan’s scholarship on the Holocaust. Evans - a Professor at Cambridge - was the chief expert witness in the civil suit brought by David Irving against Deborah Lipstadt (this was not the criminal trial for which Irving was jailed in Austria recently). Irving claimed Lipstadt defamed him in her 1993 book, Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory. Lipstadt won thanks largely to Evans’ empirical evidence about the Holocaust. Evans subsequently published a book about the civil case and its implications for historiography, Telling Lies about Hitler: The Holocaust, History and the David Irving Trial (2002), followed immediately by In Defence of History.
If you have not already done so, you should also read Evans’ In Defence of History. You probably will not like it very much as it a defence of empiricism against postit historiography. C & D take particular exception to what they see as Evans’ misrepresentation of postits, in much the same way you have posted you object to KW’s Killing of History ofr the same reason. Evans is not as combative as KW, but C&D do make some make some good points against Evans.
But I am all typed out for more, so I am off to get wasted.
I got an internet radio set for Xmas. I don’t know how many people realise that this bit of kit is potentially one of the most subversive items ever put on our market. The radio gets onto the www from my home wireless network, but behaves just like an ordinary radio inside the house and out in the garden. it even looks like one, except for a 2 inch by 3 inch screen which allows one to navigate among the world’s net radio stations (by country and/or by type: news/talk, music, type of music etc) and save the fav radio stations to a folder.
It does not need to interface with a computer but seeks out the 10,000 or so IP “broadcasters” that identify themselves on the internet as internet radio stations. So far my fav is Kjazz 88.1 broadcasting from Long Beach California. It’s a very cool radio station, that does jazz and blues and btw I recommend it heartily for music to blog by: http://www.jazzandblues.org/index.aspx
But, here’s the rub, once the kit drops in price, say down to $29.95 at Hardly Normal or Le Maison de Target, the broadcasting licences the gumment has been so stingy with - asking for a lot of moola and allowing only its favourite sons to have them - but these licences are not going to be worth a pinch of shite when smarties like us start broadcasting from our bedrooms and mixing with the big boys.
Indeed, we could have a group blog discussion on Radio Larvatus right this very moment. And guess what, we’ll be untouched by the Broadcasting Act and probably not by libel laws either. All we need is a server in Kiev and we’re sweet. Log on via the web with a dynamic IP and Bob’s your uncle.
Sounds mightily cool, Sir H. Mind telling us how it works？　Ｄ�ｅｓ　ｉｔ　ｇ�　ｔｈｒ�ｕｇｈ　ｙ�ｕｒ　ｉｎｒｅｎｅｔ　�ｃｃ�ｕｎｔ？
Christine,the first internet radio came on the market in 2000, so it has been around a long time. But it is only now with broadband speeds that it is seamless, that is, no buffering interruptions, which used to happen with slow net access speeds.
Yes, it goes through your own ISP account and it is as if you were browsing the net or blogging. I listen to internet radio on my laptop as I blog anyway. Here is a link is on the Kerbango, the first standalone net radio:
Another brand is Grundig. Check out eBay. The only problem I see is the protocol embedded in the net radio, mine is a Sagem brand and I think it plays via the RealAudio protocol. Sadly some net radio broadcasts are just in Windows Media Player and I can’t access them on my net standalone radio, though I can get them on my laptop.
I’m toying with the idea of starting up a blog that will have a radio component in it so we can all have a discussion live on air. I’m sure we could do better than the goddam Panel!!!!!
“In this my final Despatch, I think it desirable to comment briefly upon certain general features which concern the whole series of operations carried out under my command. I am urged thereto by the conviction that neither the course of the war itself nor the military lessons to be drawn therefrom can properly be comprehended, unless the long succession of battles commenced on the Somme in 1916 and ended in November of last year on the Sambre are viewed as forming part of one great and continuous engagement.”
Never one to blow his own trumpet, Haig goes on to say:
“Despite our own particular handicaps and the foregoing general considerations, it is satisfactory to note that, as the result of the courage and determination of our troops, and the high level of leadership generally maintained, our losses even in attack over the whole period of the battle compare favourably with those inflicted on our opponents”
…not that he was anywhere near a front.
So, how did he win? Moral superiority of course!
“The moral effects of those battles were enormous, both in the German Army and in Germany. By their means our soldiers established over the German soldier a moral superiority which they held in an ever-increasing degree until the end of the war, even in the difficult days of March and April 1918.”
“Mitrione was married and he had nine children. His funeral was largely publicised by the U.S. media, and it was attended by, amongst others, David Eisenhower and Richard Nixon’s secretary of state William Rogers. Frank Sinatra and Jerry Lewis held a benefit concert for his family in Richmond, Indiana.”
Nice point Sir H. I expect Jerry Lewis to turn up at Dennis Shanahan’s funeral as well…
1. Haig’s conflation of all those “big pushes” into a single offensive is tripe. Otherwise “a single engagement” is a phrase devoid of any military meaning beyond the fact that all of Haig’s battles were fought during the Great War.
2. His assertions about inflicting greater damage on the Germans may be correct. Don’t forget that Haig was not C-in-C of all Allied forces, only British forces. the key phrase in this section is “under my command”.
3. By moral, Haig probably means morale. The Germans did crack at the moment of their greatest victory on the Western Front in the Spring 1918 offensives. And large parts of the German Army did collapse in Oct/Nov 1918. Even the French mutinied. If the Germans had found out about that, the war would have been over. The British Army never suffered a major breakdown of discipline.
I tell you, that was one hell of blog sabbatical over at Poll Bludger. An ardous, intense, teeth grinding 3 month rant-athon.
Frankly, my electoral obsession could not brook even a whiff of non-poll related topics, so, you know … took myself off to spare the less monomanic renaissance folk here at LP.
Mind you, it seemed to be offline when I did drop in.
So whazzup? Is Missy still etc? Any bets that thread outlasts her recording career?
Soundblaster = Creative Labs Inc. brand sound card ubiquitous throughout early home PCs.
Sound Card - a circuit board, used to produce audio from a PC. Anything modern-ish will have it built into the motherboard but for older machines a separate sound card is needed. As sound cards use many of the characteristics of modem they are often inter-related and inter-connected. In laptops they are usually the same PCB/FRU and about the size of a thick postage stamp.
MODEM - MOdulator/DEModulator. For converting analogue signals (like music), to digital signals and back again. Trivia: broadband internet is a digital technology, hence it requires no modulation or demodulation, so the term common “broadband modem” is inaccurate and misleading and was chosen so as to avoid ‘confusion in the marketplace’.
“I don’t know how many people realise that this bit of kit is potentially one of the most subversive items ever put on our market. The radio….”
Sir Henry, you are indeed a dangerous anarcho-syndicalist type; an Early Adopter who wants to play Inter-Tube RollerBall and mess with The Man; a radical mix of Marconi, Durruti, Hasek, Bukowski and Ben Hall. In other words, just the sort of chap to take it up to that greedy media guts, Sep Citizen Rupert. Snatch his rosebud, as it were. Diminish his role as kingmaker and money-sucking Alpha Animal. You want to give the prick more stick than Douglas Bader and Captain Bigglesworth gave Jeddy. Fair enough, Squire. This game is for poaching. There are many Reasonable men and women who freely empathise with such enterprise.
“I’m toying with the idea of starting up a blog that will have a radio component in it so we can all have a discussion live on air. I’m sure we could do better than the goddam Panel!!!!!”
Toy no more, Sir ‘Enry, toy no more. Turn Casingbroke Manor into a land-locked Radio Caroline and kick the MSM in their revenue raising bread-basket. I’ve always enjoyed fun with a purpose. Count me in!
Lefty, you were a star on BillBowe Baggin’s site. Can’t remember you being bested. Those last few months in the lead up to E-Day were as intense as any election I’ve followed (orright, obsessed over) because so much was at stake. While The Bludger was daily de rigeur and there were some terrific skirmishes that moderator Bill hosted, I thought the emergence of Kid Comitatus was perhaps one of the most significant recent events(May 2007) in our neck of the politcal intertubes in.
Possum’s “nicking” of Chrissie Pearson for Crimes Against Psephology reminded me of one of those South American Bolivar types, ripping off the medals of a pretentious and presumptuous underling officer in full view of the troops and assembled multitude.
JG,
Interesting comment on recent trends in historiography/philosophy of history. I haven’t read Curthoys or Dockers’ books but do have some observations to make based on what you have written. It seems posat-modernism hasn’t really contributed anything new. The debate on is history truth was something I copped in my first history tutorial as an undergraduate entitled what is history. Ideas such as is history fiction etc were dealt with in 2/3 year courses, especially in a course on thge philosophy and practice of history. As to the relative importance of the kind of sources one uses - diplomatic papers, posters, novels, poetry etc. I was taught you use whatever is relevant to the question you’re asking. You don’t ditch an historical source just because its poetry or drama or films or whatever. Who would think of writing a history of the Persian Wars, for example, without cons ulting Aeschylus. Not ant historian I’m aware of. And as for sources other than documents - news trailers, radio broadcasts for example, in Australia during WW2, you go to the NLA and view whats available, of course. I didn’t find the few films available very enlightening, though they did give some indication of Curtin’s political style, but trasnscripts of Menzies’ radio broadcasts were invaluable. All the above I learnt at uni before Derrida etc was even heard of.Sounds very much like a bit of a storm in a teacup to me, or, dare I say it, intellectual wankery.(That last remark is not directed at you or anybody else - is just a general observation.)
Yes, EC, it was trench blogfare in there. Or probably just an obsessive’s support group. With some great cellmates of course
Only two downsides, neither of which were Billbowe’s fault (he was a great moderator throughout)
1. The RWDBs were of such poor quality. The banal idiocy of their yapping soundbite heads routine was a continuing lowlight.
2. A certain ALP hack with an obsessive hatred for the Greens, and a near-autistic mania for lengthy, repeated and wholly uninteresting screeds against the inadequacies of AEC preliminary senate count data, who shame remain nameless.
That said, it got me through the hard times. Once again, I found i resorted to the MSM purely for the purpose of running a critique of their bumbling boobiness , rather than info.
All hail the blogosphere! And yes, the Possum rules!
I shall get back to you soon. But above is only Part 1 of the critique - you know, the “nice,” “empathetic,” and “balanced” part that all good reviews should include? Part 2 lets rips with what I REALLY think.
All the above I learnt at uni before Derrida etc was even heard of
Well I wasn’t around in those days, but all the history I have ever read - not only from the times you mention - but all the way back to Herodtus. I agree with you that the postits have set up a huge straw man that was never how historiians worked.
So much of the hatred towards KW is because of how effortlessly and devastatingly bitchslapped a whole generation of lazy liars.
There is big potential for the internet wireless, Sir Henry. Lots of little broadcasters out there taking on the big guys. Might take a while for the product to drop under the 100 dollar mark, though: 5 to 10 years with a bullet or quicker if say Apple made a cool pitch.
Was your Sagem bought locally? Grundig is up on the ebay and the mob who discount sell there, are fine, as i have had dealings.
Yeah, Lefty, Team Glen and the cheer squad were largely tedious and 98.6% according to university controlled tests, bereft of wit.
As for our mutual innominate acquaintance, he has boots on the campaign trail, as well as some academic cred, but he did rabbit on about things like David Hicks and the Greens in an irritating manner. His bouts with Possum were certainly worth the price of admission(obsession). Be fascinating how these two gents shape up to each other again as the Sep Presidentials gather momentum.
Liked the way they signed off post election like a couple of rival ace fighter pilots who fly side by-side after a major dogfight, make eye conatct, salute then peel off.
As our American cousins say so “colorfully”: they ain’t done yet!
JG,
I disagree with you about KW and the Quadrant Circle. I have commented extensively on that in an earlier Saturday Salon thread and am not going to repeat myself.
You are far too dismissive of the historiography of Aboriginal history. I would be very careful of taking much notice of KW’s mainly wrong-headed interpretations.As we have already debated KW quite extensively, I see no point repeating ourselves, do you? I mean, we don’t want to bore the pants off other LP-ers who have no doubt read all our comments last week.
Pyzo,
1.That men sit at their computers all weekend while women do the housework and look after children?
2. That a lot of LP-bloggers are on holidays?
3. That nobody’s bothered trying to derail the thread or engage in moniker-morphing?
You tell me.
John Greenfield, I’m glad you got a lot out of that book. I’ve been using it myself lately while I interrogate the work of Inga Clendinnen, as a useful text for keeping some relevant historiographic positions floating around in my head. I’m not criticising her on the basis of her historical research but rather the way in which she frames that work and puts it to work in certain contemporary debates. At some point in the future (and when I’ve finished my current project) I’ll chase up Evans, who I haven’t read.
I’m not a humanities academic as yet, although I have taught casually and published academically, and yes I am sympathetic to some post-structuralist positions, especially those of Derrida and Deleuze. I’m also very interested in empiricism, including that great arc of empirical thought from Hume to William James, and onwards through Whitehead to Isabelle Stengers and Bruno Latour.
Paul, late reply sorry (been working on the house and minding the baby today).
I’ll look you up in the phone book and give you a call this week - probably be mid-week as the to-do list before I go back to work gets longer every day.
As others have said, the “SoundBlaster” is a circuit board that slots into your PC - it involves opening the case and futzing around with the internals. I’ll do that.
We had a 3 hour power outage last night in central victoria. Methinks that the air conditioner is the likely demon. I have no prob with the elderly and disabled getting relief from these extreme heat conditions.
It is getting up my nose that we are allowing every man and his dog this, eater up of power, when we do not have the infrastructure. Not to mention the dirty coal burning needed and horrible hum that is disturbing the surburban holiday peace.
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why water restrictions have been relaxed ,in Melbourne, when their accumulated water levels (near desperate) are lower than they were at this time last year.
Better get this off as the power is starting to blink/fail.
Re discussion much earlier on old home brew. I inherited, from relatives of a work colleague, some brew along with the empty tallies I thought I was getting, in about May 2007. The oldest of the brews was dated May 2002 and it was great - held a good head which is what I can never get mine to achieve. The newer bottles from the acquired brew tasted similar to mine (I usually brew from Morgans or Coopers kits) and didn’t hold a head as well.
“Better get this off as the power is starting to blink/fail.”
Good idea Joe,in fact I think that you should buy some nice masonry chisels and knock out your comments on some stone tablets.You can then have them delivered by horse and cart to the recipient.
Mind you don’t give the horse to much water,in fact better get a camel.
To paraphrase the old Tory joke on inheritances, phil@VVB—it’s not proper homebrew if one has to buy the equipment. Mine’s pushing voting age.
I find that brews never hold head unless I’ve been scrupulous in cleaning all the bottles out with a long brush and blistering hot water. When I’m lazy either with cleaning or sterilising, it goes flat, and some old bottles do anyway. Of course you could always systematically replace your suspect longnecks with new empties: a job for which you might need helpers.
Wait for cut ‘n’ paste to come back from his tutorial ready to get smashed, then it’s his shout.
David Rubie,
No worries about delay. Hope you had a pleasant afternoon. Sounds like it. Look forward to hearing from you mid-week.Better bring a screw-driver as I don’t have stuff like that. Now I understand what the device is. Again much thanks.
Does Studless Nelson V.C. represent the arse end of the Conga Line, is Brenders truly the last man rhumba-ing?
[Writing in his local newspaper last week, the Minister for Defence, Joel Fitzgibbon, made clear his concerns with the Super Hornets, a purchase pushed through with great haste by his predecessor, Brendan Nelson, who is now the Opposition Leader.
“Few decisions of the Howard government were more controversial than its commitment to spend more than $6 billion on 24 Super Hornets without proper due process or capability justification,” he wrote in The Newcastle Herald.
For 300 lousy mill. Australia can buy it’s way out of one of the dumbest defence purchases evah! Besides, we havn’t got the “Iraqi Wheat Board representatives” to sling 300 lousy mill. to anymore, so why the hell not?
Must we continue to suck up to B43 and his Air Imbecile buddies in Lockheed just because our good friends and neighbours who run Indonesia’s Military Dictatorship are all Migged-up with superior airs and few graces(cf. Timor L’Este 1975 to 2007, Ambon, Aceh etc.). There’s an informative thread in the LP archives from about six months back that suggests we can gan get much better value elsewhere.
At least Brenden Braveheart can rest assured that the unfailingly loyal Shadow Cabinet Member for Wentworth, Petit Mal, will be putting the finishing touches on the media blitzkrieg he is about to mount in his leader’s defence regarding the wisdom of the Superhornet purchase order.
Given that you are researching Inga Clendinnen in the context of C&D, I wonder if you are a member of the cult I call the Curthoys Crazies? Gawd, I hope not.
Anyways, given IC’s anthropological approach to history (as you would know, her focus was the Aztecs), she brings a refreshing approach to more modern topics. You should read her Reading the Holocaust, which as she says, she wrote - even though having never approached the topic before - in light of Robert Manne’s dressing-down of the Australian ‘intellectual class’ for its “culture of forgetting” in the wash-up of the ‘Demidenko Affair.’ After that book and Dancing With Strangers it is hardly a secret that the Curthoys Crazies are far from enamoured with IC, particularly given the latter’s scorn towards the Crazies’ obsession with “genocides” hither and thither.
IC succeeds where C&D clearly fail in answering the ‘Is History Fiction?’ question. One of the failures of C&D’s book is that they never engage with ‘fiction,’ which they appear simply to conflate with ‘literature,’ which is simply not good enough. OTOH, Clendinnen, QE on The History Question includes a robust taking-on of Kate Grenville’s claim to be writing history in her novel, Mystic River.
The Clendinnen/Grenville contretemps were one of the more enjoyable and useful in recent Australian history. Firstly, because Kate Grenville invited the debate and very ably and robustly defended her position in both the MSM and other media. Similarly, Inga took her on with equal vigour. Neither party was malicious nor isrepresented the other.
One of the reasons I found their debate enjoyable and informative is that it is so rare to find two women scholars/academics/writers debate so robustly. I find women far too often engage in a “civility” which is really just a manipualtive ruse disguising a passive-aggression that is worse than the more obvious aggression men usually feel comfortable with in scholarly debate.
As a postit, you will probably have a field day with IC. Even given her anthropological sophistication, she is the most jargon-free of scholars, with an unusual talent for prose (for an academic). Thus, you will have endless opportunity for postit trademark deconstruction.
Enjoy.
While I agree with you on KW, it is untrue that the debate is only between “the Quadrant crowd” and the rest. Even the black armbanders have now split into different factions. Check out the particularly acrimonious split between Henry Reynolds and Bain Atwood, which the ever-charming Dirk Moses described as a “patricidal attack.”
“Petit Mal, will be putting the finishing touches on the media blitzkrieg he is about to mount in his leader’s defence regarding the wisdom of the Superhornet purchase order.”
Enemy Combatant, I suspect that Mal will simply wait in the wings and clean up the gore after Rudd et al do the flaying.
But, praytell. what is this outdated “luvvie” bollocks anyway? Isn’t that just some old Culture War RSL slogan? Dont they realise the war is over, and lost?
Or are one or two of you guys going to emerge from the Phillipine Jungle in 40 years swearing fealty to a dead emperor Windschuttle?
“But, praytell. what is this outdated “luvvieâ€? bollocks anyway? Isn’t that just some old Culture War RSL slogan? Dont they realise the war is over, and lost?”
Yes of course it is,Yea right!that is why we(yes that’s real lefty’s like me)have had to suffer the Menzies,Holts,Gortons,McMahons,Frasers,and Howards of the world.Well luvvie,a luvvie is a person who lives in a world of fantasy,where criminals are treated like winners of the Nobel peace prize.Traitors are treated like “Australians of the year” and most of all the real luvvies think the Rudds of the world are the panacea for everything that’s fucked in the world.In short most of them couldn’t find there own arse hole with two hands.
But what I really love about luvvies,is they take great delight in giving other people who don’t share their view of the world,a running commentary on the obvious.And for most here,this is not a sharing of ideas or opinions, it is a competition to see who can deliver their argument with the most references to some philosopher out of the past,or plagiarized material straight out of Wikipedia.
But I must confess I do like to read some of the shite here everyday,it reminds me of why we can’t win to many elections.
“Or are one or two of you guys going to emerge from the Phillipine Jungle in 40 years swearing fealty to a dead emperor Windschuttle?”
Kim and All:
First?
I had already posted this in Last week’s Saturday Salon, but got lost in the chatter.
Here is the Late Jim angel, who died on Xmas Eve with part of a 2SM News Bulletin from the day after Gough’s Election Win in 1972, as posted on RAdio Historian’s Wayne Mac’s website.
Note Don Chipp’s commewnts on why The Libs lost the 72 poll - sounds vaguely familiar to 2007
http://www.waynemac.com/audio/2SM%20News_1972.mp3
More fun.
frank,
If that was a sound file, I couldn’t open it. No sound card, and I don’t have the necessary file to get sound without a sound card, and probably coulkdn’;t get it now because MS doesn’t maintain Windows 98 anymore. Not complaining, just saying.
Pyzo’s Saturday thoughts:
1. Humans are just another specie, one of thousands. They are no more important than any other life form.
2. The world, which is home to all life forms, is not here for the exclusive use of human animals.
3. The concept of god is nothing more than a fanciful figment of human imagination, one created to allow the human ego to avoid the reality of its mortality and insignificance.
Hi Frank hope you had a happy Christmas and your new year is good as well,only 4 more days to re-engage the mind again,stop avoiding the cricket(sorry thats wrong keep avoiding the Cricket) and return to the land of the living.
Year one of Kevin I hope its an interesting year for all,hes going well so far I think anyway,take it easy
So David Hicks is finally released.
All media including ABC do not mention his name without prefacing it with “convicted terrorist”. The propaganda machine continues on with well oiled precision.
I discovered a milk crate full of very old forgotten homebrew yesterday. In defiance of all the rules, it unexpectedly hadn’t deteriorated, it was delicious, and it only got better into the second longneck. I might try leaving the stuff for longer, because most of the homebrew I’ve ever made has been rubbish.
Paul, if you’re irritated significantly by the non-currency of your operating system, give ubuntu a whirl. It does wonders for low-end systems, or at least it has done for my ageing laptop, which now bounces along. (I don’t know about a sound card though).
Pyzo, the joke’s getting old, you’re flogging a dead… ahem.
Re David Hicks.
Terry Hicks sums it up admirably. “He’s done his time so let him get on with his life.” I await David Hicks’s revelations later on in 2008 with great interest.
Liam,
Thanks. Will check that out.
Liam,
I’ve heard about Linux and have has it recommended to me by a few people who don’t like Microsofty for ideological reasons. Unfortunately, I’m too paranoid to do anything about it because my Windows 98 isn’t too frustrating. I can’t get sound, and some -well, no, all YouTube videos are slow. Basically, the remaining vestiges of the technophobe in me which are very few, is/are terrified I’ll muck up a system which works pretty well for me. I use it mostly as a glorified typewriter, for internet research and blogging. But thanks, anyway. Much appreciated.
I do alarm some of my computer geek friends, but they’re impressed I make the effort, unlike a poet friend of mine who still uses a typewriter and who, and remarked on having the virtues of a desktop/laptop extolled to him, remarked that Proust thought the telephone was a newfangled piece of technology.
Paul, i am a bit like you and fear mucking around with something, computer wise, that might stuff things up completely. My teenager suggests that ubuntu might be best bought as a cheap disc via ebay as it is pretty long download. Kind of goes against the free software thing but below the price of a reasonable bottle of red.
Have a look below, it is kind of interesting to see the info provided, in case you get tempted.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Ubuntu-Linux-7-04-Desktop-CD-32-Bit-Feisty-Fawn_W0QQitemZ330199661423QQihZ014QQcategoryZ11226QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Oh, you’re here. I kept looking at the old feed. Liam, how about the tiredness factor in your aged homebrew. As someone pointed out to me, if you open a bottle of homey, you’re not going anywhere? Is it the extra sand at the bottom that makes all home brew extra stupefying.
I have once made a 13-14% ginger beer. Very nice.
Well I was certainly tired by the time I finished, WoP.
I’ve had good experiences with ginger beers too. Never found out the alcohol content of the best one, except to the extent that it sat you down and kept you there for the rest of the afternoon. As my brewing colleague commented:
How long had that brew been sitting there Liam?
You are starting to get me motivated to brave the cobwebs and shed to see how the Coopers home brew stash stacks up after 3 years.
Hell, i can just pretend i decided to do a bit of clearing out and win brownie points all round.
I’m exaggerating a bit joe2. The label says March 2006, and it was a Coopers Pale Ale kit.
I shall await your reports on your “cleaning”.
Joe2,
As another part of my protest against the modern world, I don’t have a credit card. On my low fixed income the temptation to verspend and end up heavily in debt, which I’nm not at the moment, would be immense.
Though I have bgeen tempted to get a debit card to buy some books on Amazon that are hard to get. I’m sure the books will win out and I’ll get it organised eventually.
Yea David Hicks,I see the usual vocal minority have had their way and he is free,maybe we should award him the Victoria Cross,or at least hand him over to veterans affairs to look after.After all he is an x soldier,the fact not one of ours, should be o/k though.I just may invite him to our next R.S.L. reunion piss up.
Paul, you can do not need a credit or debit card to set up a paypal arrangement, any more. Any old local bank account with bugger all in it and you are away to buy things on ebay and amazon. That simple.
Wolfe was saying she saw No Country for Old Men, and, didnt like it - but I saw it the other day and thought it was really very good.
I think Javier Bardem’s performance was really quite compelling (maybe cause Ive met a few who were on the way to being him). A psychopath with a crazy beatle hairdo (an incongruent vanity, a rogue strain of humanity, out of place with the personification of violence that is the funciton of this character?) who has no empathy to offer, but when confronted with situations which demand humanity, offers the toss of the coin in its place. His weapon of choice is enought to turn you vegetarian in one sitting, thats all I have to say about that. This is the personality that has inherited the earth that is American border of Texas. There are themes of fate, chance, the inexorability of violence, the flimsiness of the past with its conceits, etc….you can see the elegiac strains of Cormac McCarthy’s writing behind it all.
I thought it was good, Hollywood is not always crass, and who else to comment on America but Americans IMO, sometimes they get it very right. And with Mr McCarthy’s writing informing the script, how could they really get it too wrong?
“His weapon of choice is enought to turn you vegetarian in one sitting, thats all I have to say about that.”
Have not seen it casey but I would have thought that wolfe was pretty keen on that idea. Why the resistance to the movie in general? She seemed most adamant.
Joe2,
Thanks for that. Will check it out with my local bank.
Gaz,
Not again. We’ve been through all that boring s**t on another thread and it got so bad they had to shut it down. Don’t spoil our Saturday fun.
Wolfe said:
“In short: nasty, vacuous, nihilistic, derivative and boring as sludge.”
So I guess she didnt find it all that interesting. While it certainly can be interpreted as nihilism, I rather see it as an interesting elegy for a lost America (which only ever existed in the imagination anyway). But then maybe Im reading the transcendentalist forefathers of American literature into McCarthy’s story. I dont know.
“Not again. We’ve been through all that boring s**t on another thread and it got so bad they had to shut it down. Don’t spoil our Saturday fun.”
Hey GAFY you write what you wanna and I’ll do the same.If you find it boring,here’s a hot flash for ya don’t read it. Savvy.
No Country for Old Men. I suppose this might be a bit irrelevant but David and Magaret both gave it 5 stars I think on the ABC Movie show a couple of weeks ago. Interesting to hear divergent views on it. Makes me want to see it even more. But Tommy Lee Jones playing the sheriff chasing the baddie. He’s getting a bit typecast there, isn’t he? Though he does it so well in the movies I have seen.Javier Bardem never puts a foot wrong. He was compelling as the young Che Geuvara Bildesrung movie.
Okay, Gaz. My apologies.
I’m with you on this one Paul. If Gaz were serious about dialogue he wouldn’t be couching his points in the rhetoric that he does. Probably best to ignore it though, and wait for him to get bored or decide to approach things differently.
Paul, I have a free, old SoundBlaster here that has windows 98 drivers if you want it. Let me know. I’ll be back at work next week we can organise to meet at the university or something.
David,
That would be lovely. In town would be better, as I’m a bit slow on my feet.Not at uni nowadays. But otherwise can make uni.You can get my e-mail address from LP or ring me. Only one in phone book. Not tonight,until The Bill is over. but any other time. If I’m on line leave a message and I’ll ring back almost immediately.Then we can make arrangements. You’d have to help me transport and instal it if that’s not a problem as I don’t have transport or full use of my left hand.And show me how to operate it.Maybe you could drive over for a coffee. (I don’t have any grog on hand.) Look forward to meeting you. Or do you already know me and I can’t put a face to the name?
Good to meet another LP-er. If I’d been in the cities I would have gone to one of their Xmas p**s ups.
Thanks very much.
I ran, until extremely recently (a matter of weeks) an old Windows 98 machine too, which coincidentally had a non-functioning soundcard. It certainly can be done. And this was used mainly for print graphic design. It was far, far, from ideal but I kept it going for years beyond what any ‘normal person’ would. In the end the power board thingie fried one day. As far as I know the actual system could have kept going indefinitely.
It’s nice to have a newer computer now. But I’ll always be about four years behind the times, at least.
And no credit cards for me thanks very much. The new debit cards seem to be quite handy for any odd CD (music shops no longer stock actual good music) or book off Amazon. It’s just my cash, so that’s good.
“I’m with you on this one Paul. If Gaz were serious about dialogue he wouldn’t be couching his points in the rhetoric that he does. Probably best to ignore it though, and wait for him to get bored or decide to approach things differently.”
Spare me your patronizing clap trap. My rhetoric (your words) is no better or less than any other on this here blog,the way I will couch my comments with as much pathos and rhetoric as I like.
Who made you adjudicator on what is a good or indifferent basis for a debate ?.
put a by in.
David,
Am I being a bit silly imagining these Soundblasters are speaker type things, or are they just discs or CD roms you slip into the computer?
Well just my two bobs worth,if a move has a good story line I enjoy it,dont care if its rolling in blood and guts,I like a good film violent or not.
Unless its got Adam Sandler then I will walk on the other side of the street,i don,t think he could act his way out of a wet paper bag and theres a few others like him.
John Ryan,
I think you are pretty right about Adam Sandler.I think there was one movie he was in which was a drama that he was supposed to be very good in, but most of his stuff is B-grade Hollywood pulp. I’ve never been to the movies to see him, or got any of his work out on DVD, but the snippets I’ve caught on TV made me cringe.
At the moment I’m hanging out to see the new National treasure movie. Watched the first one 3 times on DVD and went round recommending it to everyone. Any reports, LP-ers?
Paul the soundblaster would need to be installed into the computer box without much difficulty or cost by a techy. Ubuntu can be bought as a “live CD” and used or not used as the mood takes you. Paypal has proved completely harmless to a set aside ordinary bank account with very little cash in it despite my initial paranoia.
Klaus K
John Greenfield, I have not looked at Australian historiography in any great detail, but I think John Docker and Ann Curthoy’s recent ‘Is History Fiction?’ is a good overview of western historiography that frames contemporary debates in an interesting way, and even contributes a little, although is a bit light on detail.
I am so glad you mentioned Curthoys and Docker’s Is History Fiction? It is also ironic, given your earlier suggestion that my readings of twentieth century philosophy were derived from KW. In fact, my main secondary source for postmodern/poststructuralist historiography was - and remains - IHF! Forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the impression you are an humanities academic who is very attracted to the postit view of the world. I think it is quite clear, I am less enamoured. But that’s OK. There’s a hell of a lot more wonder, beauty, and fun in the world than just epistemological disagreements!
IHF is very - perhaps even extremely - well-written. It is aimed at people such as myself; undergraduate historians with little to no formal exposure to either postit philosophy or academic historiography. It is clear that a huge amount of editing and revising has gone into the book: The sentences are very clear and efficient; the meanings of - and differences/similarities between - postmodernism and poststructuralism are carefully explained, and judicious examples of historiography are chosen to highlight these similarities and differences.
The tone is among the most measured and sober I have ever read in an academic book, and given the potentially very dry subject matter, there is just enough verve to pleasantly relieve the reader of any dread in approaching the topic. The quality of the writing and the exposition became clear when they declared the book had been ten years in making, ever since the couple began teaching historiography courses at firstly UTS in the early 1990s, and more recently at ANU where Curthoys is currently a professor of Australian history and Docker is a Cultural Studies academic. You are probably already aware their son - Ned - is also a Cultural Studies type, also employed at the ANU. Cosy, huh?
Is History Fiction has become one of those books that never gets put back on the bookshelf. It always on the bedside table, desk, or in the stack of books next to my desk. There would be few weeks when I do not dip into it at least once, and even though I only bought it (nearly) two years ago, it is filled with blue, black, red, and green underlinings; orange, yellow, blue, and green, highlighter; and endless margin commentary.
Aside from the clear language and very useful introductions to these complex concepts and the nuances that present themselves in history-writing, Is History Fiction’s usefulness is further enhanced by a clear structuring around eleven well-defined chapters (plus Introduction) such as “Has History any Meaning� (it does) “The Linguistic Turn,� “Postmodernism and Poststructiralism,� “Anti-Postmodernism and the Holocaust� and “History Wars.� But the book’s primary organisational device is the world’s first two historians - Herodotus and Thucydides.
The Histories and History of the Peloponnesian War are the focus of the first two chapters, and the methodological differences that C&D attribute to H&T provide the marinade for the rest of the book. Barely a page passes, without the discussion coming back once again to H and/or T. This historogenetic (probably a horrible neologism I just made up, but I think it is apt) role of H & T has pluses and minuses. But let’s leave them for another day.
The book’s great strength is in explicitly addressing C&D’s concern (a very valid one, to be sure) that many academics do not do justice to postit historiography, and misrepresent it with straw men about “no such thing as truth,� “anything goes,’ “moral relativism,� etc. Complaints I have no doubt you, yourself, probably are well aware of.
I found extremely valuable C&D’s outlining the differences between postmodernism’s focus on upsetting hierarchies and destabilisng notions of genre privilege (eg. a diplomatic document MUST be more valid than say a poster, or a poem) and poststructuralism’s focus on the role that language, more broadly “texts,� plays in creating, and indeed imposing a “reality� onto the past. As you would appreciate much more than I, this is where the book’s title comes from.
Thus, as well as well-known books that have been traditionally categorised as academic history by scholars such as Herodotus, Thucydides, Leopold von Ranke, Marx/Engels EH Carr, Lawrence Stone, EP Thompson, Henry Reynolds, Richard Evans, and Peter Novick, C&D also consider scholars/writers who are not traditionally considered to be historians, or indeed writing proper academic ‘history.� Examples of these include Rousseau, Hannah Arendt, Sir Walter Scott, Flaubert, Nietzsche, Heiddeger, Edward Said, Walter Benjamin, Roland Barthes, and films such as Akira Kurosawa‘s Rashomon.
While they reveal (to a degree appropriate to a relative novice, comme moi), Derrida’s On Grammatology and Writing and Difference, Foucault’s The Archaeology of Knowledge and Order of Things, they do so very usefully by integrating these works within the broader evolution of post-enlightenment epistemological thinking that Derrida, Foucault, and other postits represent. For example, Derrida is placed explicitly within the context of his critique/response to the structuralism of Levi-Strauss, which opens a welcomingly clear exposition of what Derrida did and did not mean by il n’y a pas de horse-texte. Following immediately, as it does, a discussion of Derrida’s critique of Levi-Strauss’s anthropology’s base in the privileging of writing over ‘mere’ speech.
A great light turned on for me when C&D explained that Derrida’s signature aphorism used ‘text’ in a far more universal way than merely printed books and documents that have traditionally enjoyed an exclusive classification as ‘text.’ C&D explain that “for Derrida, writing designates the broadest of phenomena; writing is everything that gives rise to inscription, in any kind of markings, as in the pictographic and the ideographic, the hieroglyphic, the cuneiform, from the distant past to the present, in choreography as in cinematography…Writing is aural and well as visual, the musical as well as the pictorial and sculptural.� (p.147) With this clear explanation under my belt and elementary study of cognition, perception, and memory, I was able to frame my ancient history essay (the one you have made suggestions to get published) on the “intertextuality� of evidence for protean Saidian ‘Orientalism’ in ancient Greece.
In relation to Foucault, the critique of Marxism, the influence of Nietzsche, and Croce are useful, as is their situating the work of Edward Said and much of the post 1980s revolution in gender historiography in the context of Foucault’s connections of truth, language, and power; to wit, “discourse.� There is also a welcome expression of some discomfort with Foucault’s later work, in which he appeared to adopt the same ‘totalising discourse’ that he was otherwise committed to rejecting. In fact, much of his post 1970 writing employs the kind of epistemological associations - hence, therefore, emergence, and intention - that his critique of positivist and empiricist historiography was designed to reject.
I personally found this critique of Focuault by C&D refreshing, as their book is otherwise avowedly a defence of postit historiography (and yes, I am mildly aware of those debates that question whether Foucault - and even Derrida - can justifiably be described as postit. Though for me, life is too short…). Further, I had encountered Foucualt’s History of Sexuality the semester before when I wrote a Research Essay on ancient Greek homosexuality. I had been quite critical of Foucault and those classicist/historians who had become his groupies on the subject such as classicist/Queer Theorist David Halperin as well as a number of gender feminist types.
The penultimate chapter - “Anti-Postmodernism and the Holocaust� - is, unsurprisingly, a discussion about Holocaust denial and particularly empiricist historian Richard Evan’s scholarship on the Holocaust. Evans - a Professor at Cambridge - was the chief expert witness in the civil suit brought by David Irving against Deborah Lipstadt (this was not the criminal trial for which Irving was jailed in Austria recently). Irving claimed Lipstadt defamed him in her 1993 book, Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory. Lipstadt won thanks largely to Evans’ empirical evidence about the Holocaust. Evans subsequently published a book about the civil case and its implications for historiography, Telling Lies about Hitler: The Holocaust, History and the David Irving Trial (2002), followed immediately by In Defence of History.
If you have not already done so, you should also read Evans’ In Defence of History. You probably will not like it very much as it a defence of empiricism against postit historiography. C & D take particular exception to what they see as Evans’ misrepresentation of postits, in much the same way you have posted you object to KW’s Killing of History ofr the same reason. Evans is not as combative as KW, but C&D do make some make some good points against Evans.
But I am all typed out for more, so I am off to get wasted.
I think the sound card goes into the motherboard?
Paypal has been fine for me also, but beware email phishermen posing as Paypal
I got an internet radio set for Xmas. I don’t know how many people realise that this bit of kit is potentially one of the most subversive items ever put on our market. The radio gets onto the www from my home wireless network, but behaves just like an ordinary radio inside the house and out in the garden. it even looks like one, except for a 2 inch by 3 inch screen which allows one to navigate among the world’s net radio stations (by country and/or by type: news/talk, music, type of music etc) and save the fav radio stations to a folder.
It does not need to interface with a computer but seeks out the 10,000 or so IP “broadcasters” that identify themselves on the internet as internet radio stations. So far my fav is Kjazz 88.1 broadcasting from Long Beach California. It’s a very cool radio station, that does jazz and blues and btw I recommend it heartily for music to blog by:
http://www.jazzandblues.org/index.aspx
But, here’s the rub, once the kit drops in price, say down to $29.95 at Hardly Normal or Le Maison de Target, the broadcasting licences the gumment has been so stingy with - asking for a lot of moola and allowing only its favourite sons to have them - but these licences are not going to be worth a pinch of shite when smarties like us start broadcasting from our bedrooms and mixing with the big boys.
Indeed, we could have a group blog discussion on Radio Larvatus right this very moment. And guess what, we’ll be untouched by the Broadcasting Act and probably not by libel laws either. All we need is a server in Kiev and we’re sweet. Log on via the web with a dynamic IP and Bob’s your uncle.
Sounds mightily cool, Sir H. Mind telling us how it works？　Ｄ�ｅｓ　ｉｔ　ｇ�　ｔｈｒ�ｕｇｈ　ｙ�ｕｒ　ｉｎｒｅｎｅｔ　�ｃｃ�ｕｎｔ？
Christine,the first internet radio came on the market in 2000, so it has been around a long time. But it is only now with broadband speeds that it is seamless, that is, no buffering interruptions, which used to happen with slow net access speeds.
Yes, it goes through your own ISP account and it is as if you were browsing the net or blogging. I listen to internet radio on my laptop as I blog anyway. Here is a link is on the Kerbango, the first standalone net radio:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200002/ai_mark03002648
Another brand is Grundig. Check out eBay. The only problem I see is the protocol embedded in the net radio, mine is a Sagem brand and I think it plays via the RealAudio protocol. Sadly some net radio broadcasts are just in Windows Media Player and I can’t access them on my net standalone radio, though I can get them on my laptop.
I’m toying with the idea of starting up a blog that will have a radio component in it so we can all have a discussion live on air. I’m sure we could do better than the goddam Panel!!!!!
Bugger me. Here’s a huge steaming pile of historical manure I’ve just stumbled across from the final despatch of Sir Douglas Haig in 1918: http://www.1914-1918.net/haigs_last_despatch.htm
So, let’s read, shall we?
“In this my final Despatch, I think it desirable to comment briefly upon certain general features which concern the whole series of operations carried out under my command. I am urged thereto by the conviction that neither the course of the war itself nor the military lessons to be drawn therefrom can properly be comprehended, unless the long succession of battles commenced on the Somme in 1916 and ended in November of last year on the Sambre are viewed as forming part of one great and continuous engagement.”
Never one to blow his own trumpet, Haig goes on to say:
“Despite our own particular handicaps and the foregoing general considerations, it is satisfactory to note that, as the result of the courage and determination of our troops, and the high level of leadership generally maintained, our losses even in attack over the whole period of the battle compare favourably with those inflicted on our opponents”
…not that he was anywhere near a front.
So, how did he win? Moral superiority of course!
“The moral effects of those battles were enormous, both in the German Army and in Germany. By their means our soldiers established over the German soldier a moral superiority which they held in an ever-increasing degree until the end of the war, even in the difficult days of March and April 1918.”
Thus we can defeat the Taliban. Not.
Yeah, take “Dan Mitrione” and add “wiki”, Google, draw conclusion.
“Mitrione was married and he had nine children. His funeral was largely publicised by the U.S. media, and it was attended by, amongst others, David Eisenhower and Richard Nixon’s secretary of state William Rogers. Frank Sinatra and Jerry Lewis held a benefit concert for his family in Richmond, Indiana.”
Nice point Sir H. I expect Jerry Lewis to turn up at Dennis Shanahan’s funeral as well…
1. Haig’s conflation of all those “big pushes” into a single offensive is tripe. Otherwise “a single engagement” is a phrase devoid of any military meaning beyond the fact that all of Haig’s battles were fought during the Great War.
2. His assertions about inflicting greater damage on the Germans may be correct. Don’t forget that Haig was not C-in-C of all Allied forces, only British forces. the key phrase in this section is “under my command”.
3. By moral, Haig probably means morale. The Germans did crack at the moment of their greatest victory on the Western Front in the Spring 1918 offensives. And large parts of the German Army did collapse in Oct/Nov 1918. Even the French mutinied. If the Germans had found out about that, the war would have been over. The British Army never suffered a major breakdown of discipline.
LP’s back I see!
I tell you, that was one hell of blog sabbatical over at Poll Bludger. An ardous, intense, teeth grinding 3 month rant-athon.
Frankly, my electoral obsession could not brook even a whiff of non-poll related topics, so, you know … took myself off to spare the less monomanic renaissance folk here at LP.
Mind you, it seemed to be offline when I did drop in.
So whazzup? Is Missy still etc? Any bets that thread outlasts her recording career?
Oh, is that the time.
Soundblaster = Creative Labs Inc. brand sound card ubiquitous throughout early home PCs.
Sound Card - a circuit board, used to produce audio from a PC. Anything modern-ish will have it built into the motherboard but for older machines a separate sound card is needed. As sound cards use many of the characteristics of modem they are often inter-related and inter-connected. In laptops they are usually the same PCB/FRU and about the size of a thick postage stamp.
MODEM - MOdulator/DEModulator. For converting analogue signals (like music), to digital signals and back again. Trivia: broadband internet is a digital technology, hence it requires no modulation or demodulation, so the term common “broadband modem” is inaccurate and misleading and was chosen so as to avoid ‘confusion in the marketplace’.
“I don’t know how many people realise that this bit of kit is potentially one of the most subversive items ever put on our market. The radio….”
Sir Henry, you are indeed a dangerous anarcho-syndicalist type; an Early Adopter who wants to play Inter-Tube RollerBall and mess with The Man; a radical mix of Marconi, Durruti, Hasek, Bukowski and Ben Hall. In other words, just the sort of chap to take it up to that greedy media guts, Sep Citizen Rupert. Snatch his rosebud, as it were. Diminish his role as kingmaker and money-sucking Alpha Animal. You want to give the prick more stick than Douglas Bader and Captain Bigglesworth gave Jeddy. Fair enough, Squire. This game is for poaching. There are many Reasonable men and women who freely empathise with such enterprise.
“I’m toying with the idea of starting up a blog that will have a radio component in it so we can all have a discussion live on air. I’m sure we could do better than the goddam Panel!!!!!”
Toy no more, Sir ‘Enry, toy no more. Turn Casingbroke Manor into a land-locked Radio Caroline and kick the MSM in their revenue raising bread-basket. I’ve always enjoyed fun with a purpose. Count me in!
Lefty, you were a star on BillBowe Baggin’s site. Can’t remember you being bested. Those last few months in the lead up to E-Day were as intense as any election I’ve followed (orright, obsessed over) because so much was at stake. While The Bludger was daily de rigeur and there were some terrific skirmishes that moderator Bill hosted, I thought the emergence of Kid Comitatus was perhaps one of the most significant recent events(May 2007) in our neck of the politcal intertubes in.
Possum’s “nicking” of Chrissie Pearson for Crimes Against Psephology reminded me of one of those South American Bolivar types, ripping off the medals of a pretentious and presumptuous underling officer in full view of the troops and assembled multitude.
JG,
Interesting comment on recent trends in historiography/philosophy of history. I haven’t read Curthoys or Dockers’ books but do have some observations to make based on what you have written. It seems posat-modernism hasn’t really contributed anything new. The debate on is history truth was something I copped in my first history tutorial as an undergraduate entitled what is history. Ideas such as is history fiction etc were dealt with in 2/3 year courses, especially in a course on thge philosophy and practice of history. As to the relative importance of the kind of sources one uses - diplomatic papers, posters, novels, poetry etc. I was taught you use whatever is relevant to the question you’re asking. You don’t ditch an historical source just because its poetry or drama or films or whatever. Who would think of writing a history of the Persian Wars, for example, without cons ulting Aeschylus. Not ant historian I’m aware of. And as for sources other than documents - news trailers, radio broadcasts for example, in Australia during WW2, you go to the NLA and view whats available, of course. I didn’t find the few films available very enlightening, though they did give some indication of Curtin’s political style, but trasnscripts of Menzies’ radio broadcasts were invaluable. All the above I learnt at uni before Derrida etc was even heard of.Sounds very much like a bit of a storm in a teacup to me, or, dare I say it, intellectual wankery.(That last remark is not directed at you or anybody else - is just a general observation.)
Yes, EC, it was trench blogfare in there. Or probably just an obsessive’s support group. With some great cellmates of course
Only two downsides, neither of which were Billbowe’s fault (he was a great moderator throughout)
1. The RWDBs were of such poor quality. The banal idiocy of their yapping soundbite heads routine was a continuing lowlight.
2. A certain ALP hack with an obsessive hatred for the Greens, and a near-autistic mania for lengthy, repeated and wholly uninteresting screeds against the inadequacies of AEC preliminary senate count data, who shame remain nameless.
That said, it got me through the hard times. Once again, I found i resorted to the MSM purely for the purpose of running a critique of their bumbling boobiness , rather than info.
All hail the blogosphere! And yes, the Possum rules!
The Kookaburra is dead. Merry merry king is he!
Paul Burns
I shall get back to you soon. But above is only Part 1 of the critique - you know, the “nice,” “empathetic,” and “balanced” part that all good reviews should include? Part 2 lets rips with what I REALLY think.
Paul Burns
All the above I learnt at uni before Derrida etc was even heard of
Well I wasn’t around in those days, but all the history I have ever read - not only from the times you mention - but all the way back to Herodtus. I agree with you that the postits have set up a huge straw man that was never how historiians worked.
So much of the hatred towards KW is because of how effortlessly and devastatingly bitchslapped a whole generation of lazy liars.
There is big potential for the internet wireless, Sir Henry. Lots of little broadcasters out there taking on the big guys. Might take a while for the product to drop under the 100 dollar mark, though: 5 to 10 years with a bullet or quicker if say Apple made a cool pitch.
Was your Sagem bought locally? Grundig is up on the ebay and the mob who discount sell there, are fine, as i have had dealings.
Yeah, Lefty, Team Glen and the cheer squad were largely tedious and 98.6% according to university controlled tests, bereft of wit.
As for our mutual innominate acquaintance, he has boots on the campaign trail, as well as some academic cred, but he did rabbit on about things like David Hicks and the Greens in an irritating manner. His bouts with Possum were certainly worth the price of admission(obsession). Be fascinating how these two gents shape up to each other again as the Sep Presidentials gather momentum.
Liked the way they signed off post election like a couple of rival ace fighter pilots who fly side by-side after a major dogfight, make eye conatct, salute then peel off.
As our American cousins say so “colorfully”: they ain’t done yet!
This thread of 52 comments has, in the early part, two by the one woman, one by a horse, and 49 by various males.
Doesn’t that tell you something, guys!
Boring!
JG,
I disagree with you about KW and the Quadrant Circle. I have commented extensively on that in an earlier Saturday Salon thread and am not going to repeat myself.
You are far too dismissive of the historiography of Aboriginal history. I would be very careful of taking much notice of KW’s mainly wrong-headed interpretations.As we have already debated KW quite extensively, I see no point repeating ourselves, do you? I mean, we don’t want to bore the pants off other LP-ers who have no doubt read all our comments last week.
Pyzo,
1.That men sit at their computers all weekend while women do the housework and look after children?
2. That a lot of LP-bloggers are on holidays?
3. That nobody’s bothered trying to derail the thread or engage in moniker-morphing?
You tell me.
John Greenfield, I’m glad you got a lot out of that book. I’ve been using it myself lately while I interrogate the work of Inga Clendinnen, as a useful text for keeping some relevant historiographic positions floating around in my head. I’m not criticising her on the basis of her historical research but rather the way in which she frames that work and puts it to work in certain contemporary debates. At some point in the future (and when I’ve finished my current project) I’ll chase up Evans, who I haven’t read.
I’m not a humanities academic as yet, although I have taught casually and published academically, and yes I am sympathetic to some post-structuralist positions, especially those of Derrida and Deleuze. I’m also very interested in empiricism, including that great arc of empirical thought from Hume to William James, and onwards through Whitehead to Isabelle Stengers and Bruno Latour.
Paul, late reply sorry (been working on the house and minding the baby today).
I’ll look you up in the phone book and give you a call this week - probably be mid-week as the to-do list before I go back to work gets longer every day.
As others have said, the “SoundBlaster” is a circuit board that slots into your PC - it involves opening the case and futzing around with the internals. I’ll do that.
We had a 3 hour power outage last night in central victoria. Methinks that the air conditioner is the likely demon. I have no prob with the elderly and disabled getting relief from these extreme heat conditions.
It is getting up my nose that we are allowing every man and his dog this, eater up of power, when we do not have the infrastructure. Not to mention the dirty coal burning needed and horrible hum that is disturbing the surburban holiday peace.
Now back to the blow up pool for a dip.
I reckon you should have to have solar installed to be permitted to use an aircon.
Pensioners excepted.
Speaking of policy brains - I actually heard that utter irrelevance Downer interviewed about something or other today. Commenting on world affairs.
Cant recall what. Who cares!
Dont know why I mentioned it.
My God!Now we have the Luvvies air conditioning police. The mind boggles.
Only in the planning stages at the moment, Gaz. Water watching police could pick up this added role without too much extra expense.
Boggle on.
“Water watching police could pick up this added role without too much extra expense.”
And so they should, all those parasites in Toorak washing their Rollers,the very thought!And blue dye should only be available with a ration book no.
Yep Gaz, now we are talking turkey.
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why water restrictions have been relaxed ,in Melbourne, when their accumulated water levels (near desperate) are lower than they were at this time last year.
Better get this off as the power is starting to blink/fail.
Re discussion much earlier on old home brew. I inherited, from relatives of a work colleague, some brew along with the empty tallies I thought I was getting, in about May 2007. The oldest of the brews was dated May 2002 and it was great - held a good head which is what I can never get mine to achieve. The newer bottles from the acquired brew tasted similar to mine (I usually brew from Morgans or Coopers kits) and didn’t hold a head as well.
“Better get this off as the power is starting to blink/fail.”
Good idea Joe,in fact I think that you should buy some nice masonry chisels and knock out your comments on some stone tablets.You can then have them delivered by horse and cart to the recipient.
Mind you don’t give the horse to much water,in fact better get a camel.
First LG against the wall, Gaz.
And I’ll have you know Im the cowboy of luv, not the copper.
To paraphrase the old Tory joke on inheritances, phil@VVB—it’s not proper homebrew if one has to buy the equipment. Mine’s pushing voting age.
I find that brews never hold head unless I’ve been scrupulous in cleaning all the bottles out with a long brush and blistering hot water. When I’m lazy either with cleaning or sterilising, it goes flat, and some old bottles do anyway. Of course you could always systematically replace your suspect longnecks with new empties: a job for which you might need helpers.
Wait for cut ‘n’ paste to come back from his tutorial ready to get smashed, then it’s his shout.
“First LG against the wall, Gaz.”
That aint never gonna happen in my life time.
I thought it was the “Gangster of Luvv?”
David Rubie,
No worries about delay. Hope you had a pleasant afternoon. Sounds like it. Look forward to hearing from you mid-week.Better bring a screw-driver as I don’t have stuff like that. Now I understand what the device is. Again much thanks.
Don’t know whether you two have history on other blogs, but I thought it was, after Dave Graney:
Does Studless Nelson V.C. represent the arse end of the Conga Line, is Brenders truly the last man rhumba-ing?
[Writing in his local newspaper last week, the Minister for Defence, Joel Fitzgibbon, made clear his concerns with the Super Hornets, a purchase pushed through with great haste by his predecessor, Brendan Nelson, who is now the Opposition Leader.
“Few decisions of the Howard government were more controversial than its commitment to spend more than $6 billion on 24 Super Hornets without proper due process or capability justification,” he wrote in The Newcastle Herald.
Dr Nelson sold the Super Hornet option to cabinet’s National Security Committee this year without the co-operation of defence chiefs or undertaking the long due diligence and comparative analysis that usually precedes acquisitions of such scale and expense.]
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/axe-to-fall-on-fighter-jets/2007/12/30/1198949675365.html
For 300 lousy mill. Australia can buy it’s way out of one of the dumbest defence purchases evah! Besides, we havn’t got the “Iraqi Wheat Board representatives” to sling 300 lousy mill. to anymore, so why the hell not?
Must we continue to suck up to B43 and his Air Imbecile buddies in Lockheed just because our good friends and neighbours who run Indonesia’s Military Dictatorship are all Migged-up with superior airs and few graces(cf. Timor L’Este 1975 to 2007, Ambon, Aceh etc.). There’s an informative thread in the LP archives from about six months back that suggests we can gan get much better value elsewhere.
At least Brenden Braveheart can rest assured that the unfailingly loyal Shadow Cabinet Member for Wentworth, Petit Mal, will be putting the finishing touches on the media blitzkrieg he is about to mount in his leader’s defence regarding the wisdom of the Superhornet purchase order.
Klaus K
Given that you are researching Inga Clendinnen in the context of C&D, I wonder if you are a member of the cult I call the Curthoys Crazies?
Gawd, I hope not.
Anyways, given IC’s anthropological approach to history (as you would know, her focus was the Aztecs), she brings a refreshing approach to more modern topics. You should read her Reading the Holocaust, which as she says, she wrote - even though having never approached the topic before - in light of Robert Manne’s dressing-down of the Australian ‘intellectual class’ for its “culture of forgetting” in the wash-up of the ‘Demidenko Affair.’ After that book and Dancing With Strangers it is hardly a secret that the Curthoys Crazies are far from enamoured with IC, particularly given the latter’s scorn towards the Crazies’ obsession with “genocides” hither and thither.
IC succeeds where C&D clearly fail in answering the ‘Is History Fiction?’ question. One of the failures of C&D’s book is that they never engage with ‘fiction,’ which they appear simply to conflate with ‘literature,’ which is simply not good enough. OTOH, Clendinnen, QE on The History Question includes a robust taking-on of Kate Grenville’s claim to be writing history in her novel, Mystic River.
The Clendinnen/Grenville contretemps were one of the more enjoyable and useful in recent Australian history. Firstly, because Kate Grenville invited the debate and very ably and robustly defended her position in both the MSM and other media. Similarly, Inga took her on with equal vigour. Neither party was malicious nor isrepresented the other.
One of the reasons I found their debate enjoyable and informative is that it is so rare to find two women scholars/academics/writers debate so robustly. I find women far too often engage in a “civility” which is really just a manipualtive ruse disguising a passive-aggression that is worse than the more obvious aggression men usually feel comfortable with in scholarly debate.
As a postit, you will probably have a field day with IC. Even given her anthropological sophistication, she is the most jargon-free of scholars, with an unusual talent for prose (for an academic). Thus, you will have endless opportunity for postit trademark deconstruction.
Enjoy.
Paul Burns
While I agree with you on KW, it is untrue that the debate is only between “the Quadrant crowd” and the rest. Even the black armbanders have now split into different factions. Check out the particularly acrimonious split between Henry Reynolds and Bain Atwood, which the ever-charming Dirk Moses described as a “patricidal attack.”
“Petit Mal, will be putting the finishing touches on the media blitzkrieg he is about to mount in his leader’s defence regarding the wisdom of the Superhornet purchase order.”
Enemy Combatant, I suspect that Mal will simply wait in the wings and clean up the gore after Rudd et al do the flaying.
Perhaps an early Waterloo?
Bren Guns 300 million dollar mistake must surely lead to his early demise.
Down the loo for sure.
Malcontent will protect his leader with an ill aimed mozzie swatter.
Quite, right, I be da gangsta of luv, above.
But, praytell. what is this outdated “luvvie” bollocks anyway? Isn’t that just some old Culture War RSL slogan? Dont they realise the war is over, and lost?
Or are one or two of you guys going to emerge from the Phillipine Jungle in 40 years swearing fealty to a dead emperor Windschuttle?
Merry Xmas. Culture war is over - if you want it.
“But, praytell. what is this outdated “luvvieâ€? bollocks anyway? Isn’t that just some old Culture War RSL slogan? Dont they realise the war is over, and lost?”
Yes of course it is,Yea right!that is why we(yes that’s real lefty’s like me)have had to suffer the Menzies,Holts,Gortons,McMahons,Frasers,and Howards of the world.Well luvvie,a luvvie is a person who lives in a world of fantasy,where criminals are treated like winners of the Nobel peace prize.Traitors are treated like “Australians of the year” and most of all the real luvvies think the Rudds of the world are the panacea for everything that’s fucked in the world.In short most of them couldn’t find there own arse hole with two hands.
But what I really love about luvvies,is they take great delight in giving other people who don’t share their view of the world,a running commentary on the obvious.And for most here,this is not a sharing of ideas or opinions, it is a competition to see who can deliver their argument with the most references to some philosopher out of the past,or plagiarized material straight out of Wikipedia.
But I must confess I do like to read some of the shite here everyday,it reminds me of why we can’t win to many elections.
“Or are one or two of you guys going to emerge from the Phillipine Jungle in 40 years swearing fealty to a dead emperor Windschuttle?”
The above comment is beneath contempt.
Gaz, out of interest, what are the traits of a real lefty?
Evidently, casey, they abuse luvvies a lot.