In Afghanistan, a journalism student, Sayed Pervez Kambaksh, has been sentenced to death for downloading a Farsi paper from the internet which stated that Islamic fundamentalists had misinterpreted the Koran to justify the oppression of women. He wanted to discuss the issue with fellow students and teachers. The sentence has been confirmed by the upper house of Parliament.
Kim Sengupta writes in The Independent:
A young man, a student of journalism, is sentenced to death by an Islamic court for downloading a report from the internet. The sentence is then upheld by the country’s rulers. This is Afghanistan – not in Taliban times but six years after “liberation” and under the democratic rule of the West’s ally Hamid Karzai.
Basic freedoms, for which we’re allegedly fighting, such as freedom of speech and association, freedom of religion, the right to a fair trial and freedom from the death penalty do not exist in Afghanistan. The Independent is urging readers to sign a petition to the UK foreign office. Since we’re also in a position to exercise leverage over the Afghani regime, I’d suggest emailing Kevin Rudd and Stephen Smith. Wanting to discuss women’s rights and religion is not an offense.
Thanks Kim,
Wanting to discuss women’s rights is not on offence here or in many other countries, but it seems that wanting to discuss these rights in Afghanistan (and a few nearby nations) is found “offensive” by some mediaeval and powerful fellows. What a shocker!
Kim,
I’d heard about this from my Socialist Alliance comrades before I read this post, and e-mailed Rudd immediately with an article I’d been sent on the details of the case. I then widely circulatede the e-mail with the note that at least Rudd couldn’t say he didn’t know about it. It takes a while to hear back from him. He’s set up some whizzbang communications office which apparently deals with letters from the popu8lace. They’ve only just e-mailed me asking for my postal address so they can send me a signed reply re my request he abolish the GST on books. Kambashk’s case is but one instance of why we should be closely examining our troop commitment to Afghanistan, regardless of ANZUS. From the material I’ve received about this theatre of war, they seem to be just as bad as the Taliban, yet we’re defending them.
You people don’t think the war in Afghanistan actually had anything to do with democracy do you?
The Afghani people as a whole are extremely religously conservative, outside the major cities the local headman and imam tends to be the law.
For the attempt at installing any type of government in Afghanistan without the role of Islam being enshrined in the process somewhere would have been an instant recipie for chaos.
I agree totaly that this chap should recieve international support and asylum if possible. Even a ruling of “insanity” would be enough to provide the fig leaf to happen. (as with the Christian convert a couple of years ago in Afghanistan facing a death sentence)
How it is done is the tricky bit. A ruling from a number of conservitive clerics would quickly see the experiment in reponsible government end.
They may be fanatical theocrats, but they’re our fanatical theocrats.
That Australian soldiers are dying while the West tries to prop up this primitive, backward country is unforgivable.
Then any country that is controlled by religious fundamentalists (of any colour) is usually primitive and backwards.
Moreabout the journalist,please.Any experts or friends of this man!?As much as many wont admit it here,the reality of what U.S.A. citizens call false flagging is now well and truly prevalent in our world.Is it all possible that he could of been co-opted himself to provide further evidence of barbaric attitudes!? I think we first must be able to see if the legislated realities of the government of Afghanistan in word and deed allow this eventuation,and not take it for granted that it does.And then all that the said Judge himself had to say.
Religious fundamentalism itself is the epitome of primitiveness and backwardness.
Fear, superstition and ignorance are its Three Horsemen, and these three are the root causes of most wars and conflicts. They drive racism,bigotry and misogyny, they are behind tribal conflicts such as what is occurring now in Kenya (and which lies behind much of Afghanistan’s history) and they are accompanied always in the developing world and sometimes even in the developed world, by poverty.
The West in its own countries can shackle the beasts for now behind the public face of democracy and the rule of law, but they are still there, in the shadows. Every time women’s rights are denied they appear. Every time minorities are mistreated and demonised, they are there.
So what becomes of the women of Afghanistan if Western troops leave?
If you look into it a bit, sorcerer, it honestly wouldn’t make all that much difference. After a very brief interval, the women of Afghanistan were basically very close to being back were they were before the Taliban were overthrown. And that’s no big surprise, because the war never really had anything to do with giving women in Afghanistan human rights.
And the women of Iraq were better off, on the whole, under Saddam. At least the middle class Sunni Westernised women. (Obligatory caveat - Saddam was a nauseating tyrant.)
The “humanitarian feminist” claim was bullshit from the word go.
Yes he should be punished. After all he has commited a crime of trying to discuss wonem rights. That too in Afghanistan.
He should know that there are no rights for women there.
Why did he risk his life ?
What if Talibans are not ruling, you still have the same mentality there.
Dear people like Pervez Kambaksh, please do not risk your life with such useless things. Yes I mean that it is useless to talk about women rights in Afghanistan. These people will never change. Let it be 21st century or even after 400 years, nothnig is going to change. They want to be as they were 500 years back.
Sorcerer, you make some good points. Unfortunately Religious Fundamentalism is found not only in Muslim countries but also in Christian and Jewish ones, etc.
There will never be peace in this world while such fundamentalism prevails.
Oh yes that was my point too. The Neanderthals are not exclusive to Islam by any means.
In fact religion itself has never shown itself to be about anything but the Three Horsemen.
“In fact religion itself has never shown itself to be about anything but the Three Horsemen.”
http://www.salesianmissions.org
Your link j-p-z:
That’s to do with altruism not religion. The existence of altruism is independent of belief or non-belief, it seems it has a biological basis and it is not confined to humans.
The history of every society for which we have detailed information has had some provision for caring for the very young, the ill and the elderly.
Christianity did not invent charity, and charity would have existed without formal religious adherence. The existence of what may be called social justice does not depend on religious belief.
Your Salesians would no doubt have displayed similar altruism if they had gone to a developing country as laymen members of a secular NGO, as many atheists and agnostics already have. They would have no doubt been most welcome, irrespective of their religious beliefs, provided they had useful skills to offer. After all religious zeal will not build schools and clinics, treat the sick or run food programmes.
Bill Gates, a self-proclaimed agnostic who has donated millions to AIDS projects in Africa, is quoted as saying:
“Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.”
Yep, me too Bill.
I would be a good bet for a Afghani wife,but,I think it is necessary to care about these women anyway,simply because history of Afghanistan also includes many tribes,and not all are all about discarding women.The other point is it necessary that one will be always interfering in peoples religions and lifestyles by insisting on this,but not in a war zone, but in proving that ample evidence suggests,advantages for all if women are treated respectably.You can find all the excuses that suggest that Afghani men wont listen,but they have,and it has been the conditions to listen to this with war and threat in the background.And women are good at target shooting too,with the accuracy of any killer.Iran,has policewomen dressed in complete black,in public,certainly not sexy to see,but effective as Police,but not necessarily Euro-Western Policing.Talibani get ill,and it is likely care giving by mothers daughters and wives,is an excellent example of where a freer approach suits a culture surviving ,and,more respect by men in a voluntary sense.It is sad they dont have a much older woman speaking plainly of why this young woman is right,and carries a weapon and knows how to use it,can ride a horse effectively,and stand her ground.It would certainly help if we respected Afghani men in the skills that are modern and traditional,and invite them to put them to use in other countries.A warlike attitude,doesnt necessarily mean a unproductive one in a occupation,where ruggedness is required.In our Emergency Services in N.S.W. pensioners are members,some not doing well, what if you had Talibani types saving peoples lives!?Too much imagination,you could say!?Not really, just painting a picture of where a attitude might be very useful.
sorcerer: “In fact religion itself has never shown itself to be about anything but the Three Horsemen (viz., per #8 @ 12:28 a.m.: â€?Fear, superstition and ignorance are its Three Horsemen).”
myself: “Seems to me that ‘in fact,’ ‘religion itself,’ and ‘never… about anything but’ are some pretty absolute phrases. Thus, one citation to the contrary will suffice to refute this blanket smear. Done.”
sorcerer (1:34 a.m.): “That’s to do with altruism not religion.” Translation: “The word ‘religion’ shall be taken to mean whatever I, sorcerer, claim it means, in order to support my failing argument.”
“The history of every society for which we have detailed information has had some provision for caring for the very young, the ill and the elderly.”
Well, many of them have had provisions for caring for their *own* young, ill, and elderly — at least, when they weren’t busy offing them through exposure. (sorcerer’s note to self: Must remember to use ‘every’ more carefully in future.) One looks forward to a fascinating historical monograph on how ancient Vikings sent organized troops of their best and brightest, to care for the needy of the Scythians.
“Your Salesians would no doubt have displayed similar altruism if they had gone… as laymen members of a secular NGO…”
It’s mighty all-knowing of you to speak with certainty about the motives and choices of so many Salesians whom you haven’t met. Unless, like Walt Whitman, you contain multitudes.
“They would have no doubt been most welcome, irrespective of their religious beliefs, provided they had useful skills to offer.”
Whether they would be welcome by the locals is beside the point. The question is what are their own reasons, for going to such lengths to offer their help when they don’t have to. Your claim thus far is that it is in the service of spreading “fear, superstition and ignorance,” and “never… about anything [else].”
Bill Gates: “There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.â€?
After Gates gets finished fixing all the bugs in Windows Vista, perhaps he can turn his unfailing intelligence to the conflation of ‘religion’ with ‘what one does on Sunday morning.’
Well this certainly hasn’t been much in the way of exercise. Hey, I know. Let’s go make fun of some libertarians.
So where is your much-vaunted “citation to the contrary”?
Religion does not equal altruism. Simple, but you apparently do not get it.
It seems that many (probably most) infanticide victims were (and are) female children. The Abrahamaic religions discouraged the actual slaughter of girl children because they needed adherents. They had other, more subtle ways to marginalise their females.
How sad that you have such a limited knowledge of history. What on earth have Vikings to do with it?
I daresay that if the Vikings had figured out that there was some economic advantage for them in sailing to Scythia and converting the locals to the worship of Thor and Woden they may well have done so. Just like Christian missionaries from the 16th Century onwards.
Who knows why men join religious orders these days? In the past they at least offered a poor boy some sort of education and advancement which a deeply stratified feudal society did not, but in return for absolute life-long obedience and servitude.
The point remains that these men could go now and work for UNICEF or for any secular NGO and achieve any desire they have to serve the poor.
I can assure you that NGOs these days are. Most work respectfully with the local people. Not so when the price of food and medicine was forced conversion and the destruction of their way of life. After all we have sufficient evidence of that in our own country with our own indigenous people.
Shall we discuss the Indians of Latin America under the Conquistadors for instance?
I would not presume to speak for anyone but yourself if I were you j-p-z.
In the words of one of your prophets:
You forgot to mention TEH CRUSADES.
Or the Hundred Years’ War or the Troubles or the English Civil War or Lebanon, Kosovo, Bosnia, the Partition of India, the Balfour Declaration, the Holocaust….
There’s been a breakthrough in the Kambaksh case as a review takes place and The Independent gives itself a well-deserved guernsey
It seems that the arrest of Pervez Kambaksh has much to do with silencing his journalist brother Sayed Yaqub Ibrahimi, who has been a thorn in the side of the tribal Mafias who control Afghan politics for some time.
“the Partition of India, the Balfour Declaration, the Holocaust…”
Wait, don’t stop! You still haven’t mentioned the time when Og the Caveman hit Ub the Caveman in the back of the head with a great big rock!
“It seems that the arrest of Pervez Kambaksh has much to do with silencing his journalist brother Sayed Yaqub Ibrahimi, who has been a thorn in the side of the tribal Mafias who control Afghan politics for some time.”
But, but… you just got finished demonstrating that Teh Religion is the Source of all Teh Bad. And now it’s just measly, grubby old “Afghan politics.” So, then, what about the Balfour Declaration, and the Hundred Years War, and…
Heey, just a minute. Whose side are you on, anyway, mister?
Mark on 2nd Feb @ 12.47am
“Saddam was a nauseating tyrant….”
is being a little over-generous to him, I feel. I’d say that in ADDITION to being a little on the nose, he was a mass-murdering, megalomaniac, unstable, Stalin-loving, untrustworthy, greedy, lying, thieving thug. And that was only on his good days. Ya wooden wanna make him angry. He gave beastly fathers-in-law a hell of a bad name. He liked waving his weapon in the air. He scorned democracy. He devastated his own country, sent his young men to the slaughter of war against Iran. Invaded Kuwait (what’s a few rapes between neighbours, eh?), gassed Kurds, etc.
IMHO the word “nauseating” doesn’t do him justice, and therefore tends to underplay the benefits of his removal from power. His discovery, cowering in a tiny rat hole, was symbolic of his life. As potent a symbol as those terrible images of torture at Abu Ghraib by the US soldiers. And what was Abu Ghraib before the Coalition started using it as a prison? A school? An office block??
sorcerer, well done for trying however you never will convince people like j_p_z, his religious mindset does not belong in the 21st centaury. Your three horseman explanation is spot on, religion has brought very little to mankind. It is also plain to see that the citizens of the most advanced democracies in the world are amongst the least religious, draw what conclusion from that you may.
We can only hope that for the good of humanity people like j_p_z quickly fade into the past.
Or not.
Violence and intolerance exist without any religious motivation, and you’re displaying the intolerance bit in spades.