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	<title>Comments on: Fable of the cultural elite</title>
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	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440654</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440654</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a question for Greenaway too.

&quot;What&#039;s the capital of North Dakota?&quot;

And I dunno Adrien, I really liked &quot;Prospero&#039;s Books&quot;. It was an extended mediation/visual essay on my favourite Shakespeare play with a superb voice turning the pages for you.

But I&#039;ll give you The Draughtsmanâ€™s Contract - a cool mathematically-plotted age of reason pyschosexual thriller and The Cook, the Thief, his Wife and her Lover - a bloody bawdy Jacobean drama coolly set in the roaring Thatcher years.

If only Greenaway had a translatable sense of humour, he could have made a fine fist out of Tristam Shandy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a question for Greenaway too.</p>
<p>&#8220;What&#8217;s the capital of North Dakota?&#8221;</p>
<p>And I dunno Adrien, I really liked &#8220;Prospero&#8217;s Books&#8221;. It was an extended mediation/visual essay on my favourite Shakespeare play with a superb voice turning the pages for you.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;ll give you The Draughtsmanâ€™s Contract &#8211; a cool mathematically-plotted age of reason pyschosexual thriller and The Cook, the Thief, his Wife and her Lover &#8211; a bloody bawdy Jacobean drama coolly set in the roaring Thatcher years.</p>
<p>If only Greenaway had a translatable sense of humour, he could have made a fine fist out of Tristam Shandy.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440579</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440579</guid>
		<description>Cheers Fine
&gt;
I&#039;ve met him before he&#039;s very ...&lt;i&gt;serious&lt;/i&gt; :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers Fine<br />
&gt;<br />
I&#8217;ve met him before he&#8217;s very &#8230;<i>serious</i> <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Fine</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440577</link>
		<dc:creator>Fine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440577</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll try, Adrien.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll try, Adrien.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440490</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440490</guid>
		<description>Yeah I got a question for Greenaway. I know he&#039;s been busy in the fine arts, and I know his film-making has been going down the modernist lines of &#039;liberating&#039; cinema from the tyrannies of the narrative. And it&#039;s been intetresting. But his &#039;straight&#039; screenplays a la &lt;i&gt;Belly of an Architect&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;The Draughtsman&#039;s Contract&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;The Cook, the Thief, his Wife and her Lover&lt;/i&gt; were sooooooo good. 
&gt;
Could he please do just one more. Pretty please with sugar on top? I&#039;ll be his best friend.
&gt;
The answer will be no, but the &#039;why&#039; might be interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I got a question for Greenaway. I know he&#8217;s been busy in the fine arts, and I know his film-making has been going down the modernist lines of &#8216;liberating&#8217; cinema from the tyrannies of the narrative. And it&#8217;s been intetresting. But his &#8217;straight&#8217; screenplays a la <i>Belly of an Architect</i>, <i>The Draughtsman&#8217;s Contract</i> and <i>The Cook, the Thief, his Wife and her Lover</i> were sooooooo good.<br />
&gt;<br />
Could he please do just one more. Pretty please with sugar on top? I&#8217;ll be his best friend.<br />
&gt;<br />
The answer will be no, but the &#8216;why&#8217; might be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: gandhi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440432</link>
		<dc:creator>gandhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440432</guid>
		<description>joe2, good point. 

I suggest we all write letters of outrage to the Fairfax Meejah: Rupert doesn&#039;t care, and Kev is too busy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>joe2, good point. </p>
<p>I suggest we all write letters of outrage to the Fairfax Meejah: Rupert doesn&#8217;t care, and Kev is too busy.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440431</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440431</guid>
		<description>Shorter Janet Albrechtsen: People are being rational, realistic, grown-up and courteous to each other, and Kevin Rudd is a highly skilled politician, and what we have here is two centrist parties, and most Australians would quite like to see less vicious, pointless parliamentary stoushing, and I Don&#039;t Like It.

What a gruesomely dishonest, disingenuous, paranoid piece of writing. Not to mention, like, barking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Janet Albrechtsen: People are being rational, realistic, grown-up and courteous to each other, and Kevin Rudd is a highly skilled politician, and what we have here is two centrist parties, and most Australians would quite like to see less vicious, pointless parliamentary stoushing, and I Don&#8217;t Like It.</p>
<p>What a gruesomely dishonest, disingenuous, paranoid piece of writing. Not to mention, like, barking.</p>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440408</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440408</guid>
		<description>Mark

As I have explained to you many times before, I have no interest in Donnelly and have not mentioned him. Does he highlight the agonistic nature of great art and the intertextuality of great art over at least the past 3,000 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>As I have explained to you many times before, I have no interest in Donnelly and have not mentioned him. Does he highlight the agonistic nature of great art and the intertextuality of great art over at least the past 3,000 years?</p>
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		<title>By: joe2</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440405</link>
		<dc:creator>joe2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440405</guid>
		<description>gandhi, i do not follow Janet A much because there is always something more interesting to do. Though, having quickly scanned the piece that you linked to, i would have thought, it was time she was either sacked or resigned from her ABC board position. 

She took on the job on the basis of not commenting on the day to day to running of the corporation according to memory. Her nasty attack on Jon Faine, an ABC employee, breaches that arrangement bigtime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gandhi, i do not follow Janet A much because there is always something more interesting to do. Though, having quickly scanned the piece that you linked to, i would have thought, it was time she was either sacked or resigned from her ABC board position. </p>
<p>She took on the job on the basis of not commenting on the day to day to running of the corporation according to memory. Her nasty attack on Jon Faine, an ABC employee, breaches that arrangement bigtime.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440395</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440395</guid>
		<description>&quot;Greenaway is the key note speaker. Any questions you want me to ask him?&quot;

Why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Greenaway is the key note speaker. Any questions you want me to ask him?&#8221;</p>
<p>Why?</p>
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		<title>By: gandhi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440358</link>
		<dc:creator>gandhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440358</guid>
		<description>Speaking of cultural elites, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23242474-7583,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Janet A.&lt;/a&gt; today is just... special: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;It&#039;s easy to discard these figures as irrelevant, living in a parallel universe void of reason and logic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Have we come full circle with this nonsense? 

Janet is promising &quot;A New Silence&quot; - well, amen to that, sister!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of cultural elites, <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23242474-7583,00.html" rel="nofollow">Janet A.</a> today is just&#8230; special: </p>
<blockquote><p>It&#8217;s easy to discard these figures as irrelevant, living in a parallel universe void of reason and logic.</p></blockquote>
<p>Have we come full circle with this nonsense? </p>
<p>Janet is promising &#8220;A New Silence&#8221; &#8211; well, amen to that, sister!</p>
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		<title>By: Fine</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440260</link>
		<dc:creator>Fine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440260</guid>
		<description>Gosh, I walk away for a day in it gets even wilder in here. Anyway, I&#039;m in Perth for a conference, where Greenaway is the key note speaker. Any questions you want me to ask him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh, I walk away for a day in it gets even wilder in here. Anyway, I&#8217;m in Perth for a conference, where Greenaway is the key note speaker. Any questions you want me to ask him?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440225</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440225</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You could always have a cultural policy that turned Australian culture into a lot of long, zany arguments over nearly nothing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You don&#039;t need a policy. We&#039;ve already got the Internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You could always have a cultural policy that turned Australian culture into a lot of long, zany arguments over nearly nothing.</p></blockquote>
<p>You don&#8217;t need a policy. We&#8217;ve already got the Internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440217</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440217</guid>
		<description>Sluggo, nice theorisin&#039;. I think Australian culture is actually that already, though. Think how much money they could &lt;strike&gt;give to Charlie Owen&lt;/strike&gt; save.

Just to repeat something on-topic and important that habitually gets lost in the intense feelings around the arts-grants-applications subculture and its sub-subcultures: I don&#039;t know about film funding, but in all artforms covered by the Departments for the Arts, &lt;i&gt;there are no &quot;sides&quot;&lt;/i&gt; in this funding bizzo. As I&#039;ve said at #136,  it&#039;s the artists&#039; fellow artists who distribute the dosh, at least in my experience (Vic, SA and Federal levels), with a steady turnover of membership on those decision-making boards and committees. The bureaucrats facilitate this process, but they do not make the money decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sluggo, nice theorisin&#8217;. I think Australian culture is actually that already, though. Think how much money they could <strike>give to Charlie Owen</strike> save.</p>
<p>Just to repeat something on-topic and important that habitually gets lost in the intense feelings around the arts-grants-applications subculture and its sub-subcultures: I don&#8217;t know about film funding, but in all artforms covered by the Departments for the Arts, <i>there are no &#8220;sides&#8221;</i> in this funding bizzo. As I&#8217;ve said at #136,  it&#8217;s the artists&#8217; fellow artists who distribute the dosh, at least in my experience (Vic, SA and Federal levels), with a steady turnover of membership on those decision-making boards and committees. The bureaucrats facilitate this process, but they do not make the money decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Sluggo: Amazing Master of Blog Theory</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440211</link>
		<dc:creator>Sluggo: Amazing Master of Blog Theory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440211</guid>
		<description>You could always have a cultural policy that turned Australian culture into a lot of long, zany arguments over nearly nothing.  The Irish and the Middle Ages did it for, well, ages.

Just sayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could always have a cultural policy that turned Australian culture into a lot of long, zany arguments over nearly nothing.  The Irish and the Middle Ages did it for, well, ages.</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440196</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440196</guid>
		<description>Adrien, just to clarify, I&#039;ve made the point before - we don&#039;t at LP encourage threads to become debates between one or two people, and particularly not ones about the opinions of one prolific commenter. We&#039;re quite different from Catallaxy in that regard, and our main aim is to open up discussion to the broadest possible number of people. I&#039;d encourage you, therefore, to restrain your enthusiasm accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrien, just to clarify, I&#8217;ve made the point before &#8211; we don&#8217;t at LP encourage threads to become debates between one or two people, and particularly not ones about the opinions of one prolific commenter. We&#8217;re quite different from Catallaxy in that regard, and our main aim is to open up discussion to the broadest possible number of people. I&#8217;d encourage you, therefore, to restrain your enthusiasm accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Klaus K</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440191</link>
		<dc:creator>Klaus K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440191</guid>
		<description>Well, your suggestion that there is a &#039;gang&#039; working against you conveniently precludes any third party opinion that disagrees with you, so I&#039;ll not put anything further on the assumption that you refuse dissenting opinions in advance. Good luck and good night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, your suggestion that there is a &#8216;gang&#8217; working against you conveniently precludes any third party opinion that disagrees with you, so I&#8217;ll not put anything further on the assumption that you refuse dissenting opinions in advance. Good luck and good night.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440189</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440189</guid>
		<description>Klaus, the inferance is clear and the meaning wasn&#039;t ambiguous. And there was an implied reference to the previous stoush.  But I apologize, I realize how you saw it. &#039;Nuff said, I suspect neither PC nor I want to natter at each other. 
&gt;
What I actually suspect is that the arguments over public private sector arts funding create tender nerves. Anyone who seems to be from the &#039;other side&#039; tends to twinge &#039;em. I myself think that particular dichotomy isn&#039;t as pertinent as people think it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Klaus, the inferance is clear and the meaning wasn&#8217;t ambiguous. And there was an implied reference to the previous stoush.  But I apologize, I realize how you saw it. &#8216;Nuff said, I suspect neither PC nor I want to natter at each other.<br />
&gt;<br />
What I actually suspect is that the arguments over public private sector arts funding create tender nerves. Anyone who seems to be from the &#8216;other side&#8217; tends to twinge &#8216;em. I myself think that particular dichotomy isn&#8217;t as pertinent as people think it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440187</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440187</guid>
		<description>Last warning. Get over it, and get on topic, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last warning. Get over it, and get on topic, please.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440186</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440186</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say: <i>Youâ€™ve really got to stop giving me English lessons.</i><br />
&gt;<br />
PC says: <i>I only offer English lessons when some bully is monstering other people over their â€œerrorsâ€? and getting it wrong himself as well</i><br />
&gt;<br />
Klaus says: <i>Erm, itâ€™s pretty clear Dr Cat wasnâ€™t calling Adrien a bully.</i><br />
&gt;<br />
Really why is that? Seems pretty clear to me that the inference is there. But apparently it&#8217;s not all about me, I have to read the rest of the sentence. This is the whole sentence:</p>
<blockquote><p>I offer this fact not as an English lesson (much less as, ahem, recommended reading, though I do agree that Abrams is a worthy critic very much worth reading; I only offer English lessons when some bully is monstering other people over their â€œerrorsâ€? and getting it wrong himself as well, or when, as in this case, the meaning was genuinely ambiguous and unclear) but in the spirit of providing clarificatory information. </p></blockquote>
<p>&#8216;Ahem&#8217;? What is this &#8216;ahem&#8217;? Perchance it means: you can&#8217;t cite a book &#8216;less you work at a Uni? Izzat right? Anyway maybe PC&#8217;s lecture about the meaning of inference (it should be imply apparently) is not an English lesson. Perhaps it refers to someone else but I can&#8217;t honestly say who. And after all that who was I bullying? Well here&#8217;s the answer:</p>
<blockquote><p>On this thread, nobody (read the rest of the sentence; itâ€™s not all about you), and on the comment you linked to, the person you were trashing. </p></blockquote>
<p>And on this other thread what did by monstrous bullying consist of? Writing new lyrics to &#8220;Danny Boy&#8221; in furtherance of poking fun at someone who wrote new lyrics to &#8220;Danny Boy&#8221; in furtherance of poking fun at someone. Geez I&#8217;m a regular Amon GÃ¶th.<br />
&gt;<br />
I submit that this here&#8217;s a gang thang. Is like: we don&#8217;t like what you say senior so we gonna get together and kick you a beet.</p>
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		<title>By: Klaus K</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/comment-page-4/#comment-440181</link>
		<dc:creator>Klaus K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/14/fable-of-the-cultural-elite/#comment-440181</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the sentence again Adrien:</p>
<p>&#8220;I only offer English lessons when some bully is monstering other people over their â€œerrorsâ€? and getting it wrong himself as well, or when, as in this case, the meaning was genuinely ambiguous and unclear&#8221;</p>
<p>The key part is &#8220;or when, as in this case, the meaning was genuinely ambiguous and unclear&#8221;.</p>
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