No doubt everyone’s seen the Kevin Rudd cardboard cutout the Libs brought into Parliament yesterday. Tony Abbott made it clear that the disorderly behaviour was designed to force the government to consult on the question of Friday sittings, or to prompt the Speaker to take matters into his own hands. After all, as Anthony Albanese remarked in Question Time on Thursday, it’s unlikely that branding Rudd as lazy is going to be a credible message.
It’s worth taking a step back to return to some of the little noticed coverage of this innovation in December. At the time, Liberal sources were quoted as worrying that a whole day for backbenchers would lead to their own MPs putting their feet in their mouth or prosecuting internal party disputes in the public eye. That says something about the state of the Coalition.
Still, while Lindsay Tanner may well be right that the behaviour on show yesterday resembled what you might expect from Young Libs after a few too many g&ts, there’s a serious problem for the government here. The lack of the ability to hold a division means that rulings by the Speaker or Deputy Speaker can’t be properly enforced, and it also incidentally disables the opportunity for tempers to cool during the lengthy process of actually holding a division. Whether or not the public blames the Libs for the risible scenes visible on the news last night, a smart Leader of the House should have a rethink.
Cross-posted at PollieGraph.
Kev looks like he’s been out in the sun too long. Did he take an Akubra for his flood and Indigenous community peregrinations?
I’ve got no real idea, but surely this sort of crap plays pretty poorly?
Even a cardboard Rudd cutout recelved more media coverage than Dr9% and I reckon it would get a higher ppm if polled.
As the Liberal backbench has been mute for at least for 11yrs, it will take a while to first grow a backbone then find its feet and finally to stand up to the spineless frontbench and be heard, but don’t hold your breath in the meantime
Seems the Coalition are so so happy to have Rudd on their side of the house, note how they are trying to touch the hem of his garment in awe and respect, perhaps even love?
Maybe they should take the cardboard cutout to the next party meeting and see how many votes it gets for Leader of the Opposition, surely it would garner more than 9% public support?
Meanwhile Dolly and Mark are burning up the golf course so perhaps a cut-out of them could be used in parliament in lieu of the real things.
Isn’t that what we pay ‘em to do?
One of the unfortunate things which happened in Howard’s time was that backbenchers on both sides were denied opportunities for a proper contribution, because Howard concentrated so much of Parliament’s sitting time on himself and his Cabinet, and muzzled both the opportunity for proper debate and the activities of other Parliamentary bodies such as committees.
if you look upon the Friday sitting as an extended grievance debate then backbenchers have the opportunity to bring up matters of concern to their electorates, while at the same time honing their own speaking and debating skills.
It may surprise people unfamiliar with Parliamentary procedure to know that it matters little in this type of sitting whether Ministers are physically present or not. Generally speaking, the whole House is only required to be present in the chamber during a division or after a Member has “drawn attention to the state of the House” (i.e. called for a quorum) So when a vote is taken, the particular motion can be carried “on the voices” unless a division is required.
About 90% of Parliamentary business is conducted this way anyway. Most motions go through unchallenged. Changes to Regulations (as distinct from amendments to Acts of Parliament) don’t even get to Parliament. This is how changes to the excise on alcohol and tobacco are made, for instance.
The ABC is discussing the issue here
I would have thought the much-reduced Opposition would have been eager to flex their back-bench muscles in a forum such as this, but not so. They prefer to carry on with juvenile dorm games, led by the pack of pubescent prefects on their front bench.
They still haven’t got the message of the 24th November yet.
My thoughts entirely Wilful.
Last evening, we held a small wake for the passing of my partner’s beautiful mother in England. Most of our family are not particularly into party politics, but they were absolutely horrified at the opposition’s antics yesterday. With the added news from Avuncular Joe (boss of Coalition business in the house), that they (mostly middle aged men) intended to continue the farce every Friday until Ruddy caves in to their demands, everyone was wondering how long Nelson’s motley crew want to wander aimlessly in the wilderness.
I forgot to add that Ministers can now get Hansard online (as we all ccan) and are able to peruse any matters for which they are absent any time.
I think if I were living in a Coalition electorate, I’d be asking my Member why he or she was playing with cardboard cutouts rather than important raising local issues.
I am also wondering if Brendan Nelson is really serious about joining in a bi-partisan approach to indigenous affairs, or whether he finds remote areas too icky after his salubrious North Shore dwelling.
What’s next, crayons for Headmaster 9% and the Prefects?
Sorry, should read “rather than raising important local issues”
No, they don’t get the message of November 24th., and Rudd can’t back down now, either.
They still think they control the House. They think they’re the natural and best parliamentarians what with their intimate knowledge of the rules and procedures etc. etc. However, this performance proves otherwise. They look uncannily like a bunch of cheap smartarses, let loose when teacher’s away for a day.
Another few weeks of this and they’ll be lucky to have even 30% in the polls. And as for Nelson, 5% looms unless he can rail in his ferals.
Of course this could be all about damaging Nelson. Don’t forget that possibility.
Say Nelson lost his leadership over this and similar shenanigans. Turnbull takes over. How long would this mucky-muck continue?
It’d be stopped immediately.
No, Rudd needs to stick it out. No divisions, no calls for quorums, no change at all.
Until they behave. And then… maybe.
Rudd can do it. Remember, he’s they guy who resolutely turned his back on the Coalition front bench as they railed and bloviated against him. In the end most of their noise was about the tactic, not the substance. The Opposition is trying to pick a fight. The very best thing Rudd can do is to ignore them.
I say Labor should stick to their guns until order is restored naturally. Which it will be, as this behavior can only harm one side of politics, and it’s not the government’s side.
Sorcerer
Good post, no need to add any more. I am in full agreement with you.
The level of debate, control, actions and focus on one person over the past 11 years has reduced vastly our (the ordinary mug voter of Australia) democracy process.
Hopefully the Liberal and National backbenchers, now unshackled, will have a go.
Yeah, these antics just make the Liberals look rudderless.
(sorry, i just had to say it…)
“let loose when teacher’s away for a day.”
Hmm these were my thoughts too.
Once the OPPOSITION realise such antics do nothing other than drag them further into political oblivion they’ll desist. Poor old hapless, aimless, rudderless, Coalition Ministers, floundering around in a sea of uncertainty and futility with the prospect of no plan for nothin’ hanging around vacuously for some time to come. They will all too soon, I predict, happily take advantage of a four-day-week when Parliament sits and use Fridays to visit their analysts’/personal trainers’/'life’ coaches’. Give the humble backbencher a chance. Is Tone on the back bench these day? Who does make up Mister Nine Percent’s ministry? It seems to have become an issue of so little significance I’m really not sure. Oh well. It couldn’t matter in the least.
Perhaps PRIME MINISTER RUDD could compassionately suggest that some of the more truly frazzled and flabberghasted on the opposition’s front bench take a bit of leave and have a bit of a ‘think’. In someways you can only be as good as you’re opposing member and these ‘guys’ really are horribly desperately dreadful.
Rudd should eat his own dog-food and be there for these sittings. FFS – at least the first one – instead he’s left a “let them eat friday sittings” smell.
I think the libs made their point in the most news-friendly way possible with humour that the public can get. WTF – people have life-size Rudd cutouts somewhere?
I’m tipping these sittings are extremely unpopular within Rudd’s own party and unless he can be bothered to attend them himself they’ll be short-lived.
anyone know where i can get one of those cardboard cutouts?
I think the Coalition’s general tactic is to be as disruptive as possible. That’s just from observing their behaviour.
Geoff Gallop talking to Geraldine Doogue this morning said he thought Labor should quietly drop the Friday sitting a bit further down the track.
Johnny didn’t have Friday sittings, did he? So he was even more “part time” than Kevin?
That makes the Coalition side of the house explicitly hypocritical, as well as airheaded, juvenile, and off with the fairies (or cardboard cutouts). Note to voters and local party members: these people are not earning their salaries, and we don’t want buffoons like this running the country.
The new sessions have been brought in for a good reason – to give backbenchers a voice. The Coalition can respect and accept that, or suffer whatever disciplinary action it takes to persuade them.
I think the best solution would be for the Opposition to have dummies made of themselves and arrange them on that side of the house prior to Question Time.
Surely the dummies would make a more worthwhile contribution to the business of government that their human counterparts are currently doing!
Actually I’d love to take one of the cardboard cut-outs onto the street with a camera team and see if people would be more inclined to vote for the cut-out of Rudd or the real Nelson.
MB: “there’s a serious problem for the government here. The lack of the ability to hold a division means that rulings by the Speaker or Deputy Speaker can’t be properly enforced,”
Mark, does the PM as well as the Leader of The House have to present to hold an enforceable division?
While I can see the logic of the Friday sittings for providing a profile and forum for backbenchers and readily agree the people the Libs are most likely to damage are themselves, the Speaker and Deputy Speaker losing control of the House is not a good look.Probaly at the moment the public is looking at the Opposition’s parliamentary tactics with some bemusement, but if the pollies keep it up, it might have a nasty backlash from the people which effects both parties. Or have the Libs the foresight to continually carry on like this so at election time they can claim Labor can’t run the Parliament. If they keep it up the Speaker should kick them all out in one go and not let them back into the Chamber unless they behave. And keep on kicking them out until they do learn.
We all know Question Time is a dog and pony show. Call me when they begin to televise the legislative debates – the things that actually matter.
At least on oposition backbencher was out to lunch.
You do not need to be a genius to work it all out.
Silvertails are being asked to work another 3 hours a week and they are shitty.
Yes, Kim, Rudd did wear an Akubra yesterday.
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/02/22/5rudd_lead_wideweb__470×300,0.jpg
Apparently you can link to SMH photos. Here’s the story:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/wheres-kevin-day-pm-was-flat-out/2008/02/22/1203467388856.html
Must have been some angst on the government back benches, with not being able to join in with a protest they totally sympathised with.
Oh, indeed, satp no one likes their previous conditions taken away.
Cry baby cry… number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9,, number 9, number 9,, number 9, number 9,, number 9, number 9…
EC, the rules laid down for the Friday sittings are that divisions would not be counted. The day is meant for backbenchers to raise issues of interest to them and their electorates. I guess that the logic is to free up other time in the week for government business.
So right GregM. My personal opinion is that since politicians have embraced the seven day a week for the rest of us, it should go further.
Government business from Monday to Thursday and backbencher matters from Friday till Sunday.
GregM, thank you.
OK, Sir Henry, what is with this quasi city-hippie cryptic revolutionary psycho-babble; you bunkin’ down a fresh sleeper cell of neocommies at Casingbroke Manor, orwot?
Sir Henry was referencing John Lennon’s “No 9 Dream”, EC, and taking the piss out of Dr 9%. “Old enough to know better” indeed!
Watching Abbot and Hockey in particular, it struck me that these guys are still drunk on power. Rudd should give them enough rope to hang themselves by their own petards!
My own local member for Moncrieff, Steve Ciobo, was in the think of things (again*), thrown out by the sgt-at-arms b4 the cardboard cutout even appeared. He’s the first MP forcibly removed in nearly 20 years – an utter disgrace.
He also happens to be a facebook friend with people like Janet Albrechtsen and our old blogging mate Arthur Chrenkoff, who worked for QLD Lib Senator Mason (and wrote his Good News From Iraq missives on taxpayer time).
* Ciobo helped Howard form a human cordon to block Kerry Nettle’s attempt to confront George Bush when he came to Canberra. Another disgraceful day…
Aaaagghh! I meant to write at least one opposition backbencher was out to lunch.
It’s a worry that the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker couldn’t control the house, though. I guess the one good thing to come out of their disgraceful behaviour is that they’re showing themselves up for what they are.
Also says a lot about the people ‘running’ the Coalition. For every ten Tuckeys there will be some showoff who makes a thoughtful and intelligent contribution, and we can’t have that.
Couldn’t agree more, well said.
I think there’s a more fundamental question here about whether it’s a good idea, in principle, to deliberately create a whole sitting day in which the government’s accountability to the House – and the Speaker’s control of it – is effectively suspended by deferral of votes, divisions and quorum calls.
I could see it working in, say, NZ where proportional representation means that the
multi-party backbench could conceivably use the occasion productively but in our system, the Executive is all-powerful and a determinedly “Toothless Friday” is bound to resonate negatively.
I think the concept of an extra sitting day is good but it probably needs a bit of a rethink in terms of process.
On the “disgraceful conduct” aspect, parliamentary tactics will expand to fill the
Rules latitude available. The change of government has meant that the LNP and ALP have swapped positions on Rules latitude exploitation and it’s an absolute delight to hear Anthony Albanese demanding an end to the outrageous practice of using frivolous points of order as a disruptive Questions tactic
Seems like the Libs have a fair amount of immunity for their actions according to this.
“6. (1) Words or acts shall not be taken to be an offence against a House by reason only that those words or acts are defamatory or critical of the Parliament, a House, a committee or a member.
(2) Sub-section (1) does not apply to words spoken or acts done in the presence of a House or a committee.”
“Shortly before the 1987 Act was passed, the House of Representatives had in fact punished one of its members for criticism, made outside the House, of the Speaker (HR Debates, 24 February 1987, pp 580-7). It appears that it is no longer possible to deal with such conduct, however gross the defamation.”
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/pubs/odgers/chap0232.htm
This whole parliament caper we have here is a sick joke. Serjeant-at-arms, Usher of the Black Rod – until recently, in NSW parliament they were still playing dress-ups in 18th century clobber, black hose and big silver buckle shoes – see http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/web/common.nsf/key/ResourcesImagesLCUsherofBlackRod
What has this got to do with public administration in this day and age?
So much time is spent on procedural crap and puerile games, it doesn’t leave much time to get on with the job of running the country.
I reckon that on an average day, there is more intelligent discussion and incisive dissection of current issues and problems here on LP than in a week of parliament. In any case, let’s face it, the public service and its consultants actually run the country, the pollies just take credit for it and have photo ops. All that alleged hard work on budget day is actually Treasury boffins trying to help parliamentarians to get on top of the material before them.
A lot of this procedural rubbish in our parliaments is a remnant from UK’s parliament, which has a genuine tradition dating back to, well, who knows, but let’s say 1707 (hence the fancy dress in Macquarie Street, I suppose).
Sometimes the “tradition” leads to real absurdities. Take for example the case of Frank Browne and Ray Fitzpatrick in 1955. They were called before the Bar of the House – not the one with beer taps and bottles of Corio on the shelf, but a metal bar that dropped out of the door frame at the entrance to the chamber. This was so “strangers” could be spoken to arraigned by the members and then taken away and beheaded – without the alleged miscreant having to “set foot in the house”.
Browne and Fitzpatrick were “tried” before the bar for a breach of privilege: a trumped up charge by the then speaker Archie Cameron under instructions from RG Menzies. Ming was just settling an old score with Browne, a muckraking journo who’d revealed in his scandalsheet that Bob was porking Mrs Fairfax, the newspaper proprietor’s missus. Of course you wouldn’t read about it in the Herald…
The bizarre aspect of this was that when it happened, in 1955, the UK parliament no longer had this power to stage a kangaroo court show trial (no appeal, no lawyer allowed, Andrei Vishinsky would be proud). But the Australian parliament, modelled on the UK parliament AS IT WAS IN 1899, was set in aspic. And so it remains to this day.
Just one more thing. I was amused by the photo of the Mad Monk in full flight of fulminating fury standing next to the cardboard replica of Kevin. Now remember, this is the man who said of asbestos disease representative (now late) Bernie Banton, who came to his office in Sydney Rd Manly with a petition to Abbott – as the minister for health – that the petition was a “stunt” and suggested that Mr Banton’s motives were “not pure”.
I rest my case.
Interesting to hear Andrew Robb on Insiders this morning, justifying their actions as raising an important point about parliamentary precedence.
Giving the man the benefit of the doubt (and thus being far more polite to him than most Howard Government ministers were to anyone else) I would think that there would be far more dignified ways to draw attention to the issue.
Not turning up at all and quietly going back to work amongst their constituents might be one way of doing it.
Of course, the flaw in that is that they would actually have to make a point of DOING something when they did get home, or it would seem a bit hollow.
A more reasonable position, however, would be to grasp the opportunity and make use of it.
I think several points made on the Insiders programme were interesting. eg the contempt displayed for Westminster Parliamentary democracy displayed by the Libs in their treatment of the Speaker and Deputy Speaker. Would they have sworn at the Deputy Speaker if she was a man? More worrying is that the Friday sittings might be unconstitutional be4cause of the lack of divisions and a quorum count, another point made by the Insiders crew. If the sittings continue can we expect a High Court challenge from the Libs? The question is not entirely facetious, thougth it would be utterly ridicfulous if it came to that.
Albo: “Damn! I wish I’d thought of that last year.”
Um yes it’s called the Liberal Party.
And the ALP would never muzzle debate. No sirree Bob. They’re the good guys.
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Snark.
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I think we need to start teaching politics and economics from kindergarten on. The first lesson in politics is: THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS, THEY ALL SUCK. The first lesson in economics is: GOVERNMENTS ARE NEVER RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GOOD TIMES, SOMETIMES THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BAD ONE.
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Watch the world improve.
Rudd should persist with the Friday sittings. The liberals will find that they can’t carry on like that every week.
Incidentally, on this morning’s Insiders, Andrew Robb referred to “Chinese” whaling boats, and claimed that the US-Australia Alliance was established under the Howard government.
How did he get to be a Minister?
On the constitutional point, the only relevant parts of the Commonwealth Constitution are sections 22 (for the Senate) and 39. Each states that “until the Parliament otherwise provides” (which has not been done to effect the no quorum Friday sittings), a quorum of at least one third of the Senate or the House is required to exercise their powers.
As far as one can tell, neither the House nor the Senate will be purporting to exercise any of their powers on Fridays.
So what’s the big deal? The Opposition demands the relase of legal advice. Why don’t they point to a specific legal issue?
Because at his school education could go hang as long as a boy could hit a six, sing the school song very loudly and take a hot crumpet from behind without blubbing.
He’d have been a total dud as Wollongong Council’s Town Planner
“Albo: “Damn! I wish I’d thought of that last year.â€?”
He did last year, Tone. He was the Wagner of the disruptive point of order symphony.
Plus ca change, as they say in Crookwell.
At the risk of going off topic a bit,why do they put up with that smarmy bastard Bolt,Christ I,m 61 and he carried on with me the way he did on Insiders this morning I would have dropped him with a short right.
He is to me any way a dope,though Ackerman is a bigger one
[Standing order 57(2) provides for divisions called between 12.45 pm and 2 pm on Wednesdays also to be deferred, but until later on the same day.]
I would assume that it is so members can attend the National Press club functions.
With both Nelson and Turnbull listed to speak at the National Press Club in the near future are they going to hide in Parliament in case there is a division? Of course not. Why is Friday so different to a Wednesday? It isn’t. They are just a pack of brats who need to apply the same behaviour to Friday as they apply on Wednesday.
http://www.npc.org.au/upcomingSpeakers.html
Ahem. Might I just make the point that ‘Friday sittings of Parliament’ is not exactly this weekend’s BBQ stopper? Nor is it likely to ever be the topic de jour, despite Nick Minchin’s spirited defense on the Outsiders Insiders this morning.
The WEBBQS this Sunday is pretty much ‘How come our kids have to sit in 44 degree classrooms in WA in summer, and it’s apparently all up to the P&C’s to fund air-conditioners?’
And there’s Julie Bishop still banging on (or not) about AWA’s?
I loved the suggestion by Virginia Triolli on Lateline that the Coalition ought to bring in a cardboard cutout of Alexander Downer having lunch.
She’s back….. and she’s spewing. Things havn’t been the same without you, Christine.
How did he get to be a Minister?
Same reason as I used to get picked for the school football team – they needed me to make up the numbers.
posts 43, 45, 46, 53
If you are referring to Midshipman Andrew Robb, may I suggest that (unless he’s jumped ship and I’ve not been informed), he is NOT a Minister.
Repeat after me: he is NOT a Minister, he is in opposition
He is NOT a Minister, he is in opposition.
He is NOT a Minister, he is in opposition.
OK now, not all the same hands this time! Grade Prep: who is the Prime Minister?
Bulletin from the Vessel “Forgotten People”: this day of February in 2008
The Vessel is currently in dry dock. Portions of the Officers and Crew of Her Majesty’s Vessel “Menzies” have left the Employ of the Taxpayers. Some may be writing memoirs. Others have ascended to Paid Eyries overlooking the dry dock: these are New Backbenchers, and should be treated as Kindly as we Newish Australians treated New Australians in the 1950s.
The Vessel “Forgotten People” is being re-fitted and scrubbed of barnacles. Dr Nelson has charge of the re-fit. Midshipman Abbott is still Wandering in Desert Lands, Seeking Ancient Wisdom, which would Not Go Astray. Viscount Turnbull is Memorising Arcana, the better to Flash such before a Startled Publick. The Mme Mesmer is hypnotising the Ship’s Parrot. The Jolly Hockey Sticks is playing up, but will Suffer Terribly on the Choppy Seas should we embark, as he has Called some of his Officers Fools; silver Daggers are being Unsheathed.
The Vessel “Forgotten People” is still in dry dock. One day it will sail out to do battle. That time is Not Yet Upon Us. The dry dock continues in its taxing task; every day, there are Choices of Work to be made. The Admiral and the Mme Messmer are wholly hemmed in by work choices. Admiral Nelson wishes the Publick to Know that the Vessel “Forgotten People” is not, in Point of Established Fact, named after its Own Crew.