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	<title>Comments on: Australia 1919</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443883</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 13:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443883</guid>
		<description>Interesting comments but not that many "fresh thinking" solutions to the problems of alcohol abuse. I'd ask those that suggested that what is needed is cultural change, if we're likely to get a change for the better when we have a billion dollar industry that aims to persuade us to consume more alcohol? Do we just go along allowing that industry to do things like invent and market 'alcopops' to kids?
Anyway, here's an idea for comment: there's plenty of evidence that alcohol abuse is costly in medical terms -  the first things that comes up from Googling has "sources of data indicate that a substantial proportion of injuries presenting to St Vincentâ€™s ED can be classified as alcohol-related." etc
So, how about exempting Medicare benefits to people who turn up at emergency departments drunk? You could be stitched up and bandaged, but charged the full-cost - the real full-cost -  which might be $350. If you're drunk and come off your motorbike and in hospital for 3 weeks the bill might be $20,000 - your income could be garnished, it could be like HECS.
Mark asked in his post "Whatever happened to individual liberty and individual responsibility?" Well, drunks could be responsible for their own medical costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comments but not that many &#8220;fresh thinking&#8221; solutions to the problems of alcohol abuse. I&#8217;d ask those that suggested that what is needed is cultural change, if we&#8217;re likely to get a change for the better when we have a billion dollar industry that aims to persuade us to consume more alcohol? Do we just go along allowing that industry to do things like invent and market &#8216;alcopops&#8217; to kids?<br />
Anyway, here&#8217;s an idea for comment: there&#8217;s plenty of evidence that alcohol abuse is costly in medical terms -  the first things that comes up from Googling has &#8220;sources of data indicate that a substantial proportion of injuries presenting to St Vincentâ€™s ED can be classified as alcohol-related.&#8221; etc<br />
So, how about exempting Medicare benefits to people who turn up at emergency departments drunk? You could be stitched up and bandaged, but charged the full-cost - the real full-cost -  which might be $350. If you&#8217;re drunk and come off your motorbike and in hospital for 3 weeks the bill might be $20,000 - your income could be garnished, it could be like HECS.<br />
Mark asked in his post &#8220;Whatever happened to individual liberty and individual responsibility?&#8221; Well, drunks could be responsible for their own medical costs.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443773</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 02:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443773</guid>
		<description>Balvenie Doublewood 12yo.

Gosh what a smooth little number. I've found it especially good to loosen up me larynx for a bit o' t' croonin'. 

At least in rehearsal. 

Wish me luck for the stage trial - man I love venues with their own drumset. Turn up half tanked, leave full, punch a few DavidGs, get paid. What's not to like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Balvenie Doublewood 12yo.</p>
<p>Gosh what a smooth little number. I&#8217;ve found it especially good to loosen up me larynx for a bit o&#8217; t&#8217; croonin&#8217;. </p>
<p>At least in rehearsal. </p>
<p>Wish me luck for the stage trial - man I love venues with their own drumset. Turn up half tanked, leave full, punch a few DavidGs, get paid. What&#8217;s not to like?</p>
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		<title>By: sorcerer</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443749</link>
		<dc:creator>sorcerer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443749</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; *Drinks the dregs of the Laphroiag*&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;i&gt; Helps the Cat finish it....opens next bottle&lt;/i&gt;

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> *Drinks the dregs of the Laphroiag*</p></blockquote>
<p><i> Helps the Cat finish it&#8230;.opens next bottle</i><br />
 <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: wbb</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443722</link>
		<dc:creator>wbb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 18:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443722</guid>
		<description>Sparrow
&lt;blockquote&gt;Thatâ€™s a political issue, the settlement of which entails the active participation of Jane and John Citizen. It wonâ€™t be resolved through an unelected conference of their betters.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Rundle
&lt;blockquote&gt;"Doesn't anyone deserve a government that works?" is the tagline of Lou Dobbs, one of the most irritatingly self-satisfied of all these goons, the rhetoric flattering the viewer with the suggestion that he could do a lot better, if only he didn't have these jumbo Doritos to finish, and this couch to get off.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

At least Sparrow knows how to stay on message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sparrow</p>
<blockquote><p>Thatâ€™s a political issue, the settlement of which entails the active participation of Jane and John Citizen. It wonâ€™t be resolved through an unelected conference of their betters.</p></blockquote>
<p>Rundle</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Doesn&#8217;t anyone deserve a government that works?&#8221; is the tagline of Lou Dobbs, one of the most irritatingly self-satisfied of all these goons, the rhetoric flattering the viewer with the suggestion that he could do a lot better, if only he didn&#8217;t have these jumbo Doritos to finish, and this couch to get off.</p></blockquote>
<p>At least Sparrow knows how to stay on message.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443711</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443711</guid>
		<description>'Your right to swing your arm ends where it meets my eye' is a maxim I've always liked, and in this context it can probably be adapted as 'Your right to projectile-vomit your last 15 beers plus your dinner and your lunch ends where it meets my vintage designer &lt;i&gt;crÃªpe de chine&lt;/i&gt; blouse.'

*Drinks the dregs of the Laphroiag*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Your right to swing your arm ends where it meets my eye&#8217; is a maxim I&#8217;ve always liked, and in this context it can probably be adapted as &#8216;Your right to projectile-vomit your last 15 beers plus your dinner and your lunch ends where it meets my vintage designer <i>crÃªpe de chine</i> blouse.&#8217;</p>
<p>*Drinks the dregs of the Laphroiag*</p>
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		<title>By: sorcerer</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443708</link>
		<dc:creator>sorcerer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443708</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; You also couldnâ€™t buy alcohol legally on a Sunday unless you were a bona fide traveller.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh yeah and that too was a hoot. Men (mostly) driving past the 30 mile limit, filling up, then driving home and totalling their cars.

Or, as was common round the Hunter Valley, a line of cars sitting outside pubs, Mum and the kids in the cars, Dad in the pub having a few in the public bar.

Neville Wran's comprehensive reform of the archaic drinking laws did not change the foibles of the problem drinkers, but it went a long way to making NSW more civilised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> You also couldnâ€™t buy alcohol legally on a Sunday unless you were a bona fide traveller.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh yeah and that too was a hoot. Men (mostly) driving past the 30 mile limit, filling up, then driving home and totalling their cars.</p>
<p>Or, as was common round the Hunter Valley, a line of cars sitting outside pubs, Mum and the kids in the cars, Dad in the pub having a few in the public bar.</p>
<p>Neville Wran&#8217;s comprehensive reform of the archaic drinking laws did not change the foibles of the problem drinkers, but it went a long way to making NSW more civilised.</p>
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		<title>By: jane</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443707</link>
		<dc:creator>jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443707</guid>
		<description>Until the cultural attitude towards alcohol consumption changes in this country, it won't make a blind bit of difference whether there are more or less outlets, early or late closing times, or the price is jacked-up. 
When I was a kid, the six o'clock swill was the order of the day, but it didn't stop people from passing out in the front bar or stocking up in the bottle-oh to go home and drink themselves into a stupor. You also couldn't buy alcohol legally on a Sunday unless you were a bona fide traveller.
When it becomes uncool to get blind drunk, behave like a moron and brag about it to an approving audience the next day, alcohol-related violence and associated health problems will no doubt decrease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until the cultural attitude towards alcohol consumption changes in this country, it won&#8217;t make a blind bit of difference whether there are more or less outlets, early or late closing times, or the price is jacked-up.<br />
When I was a kid, the six o&#8217;clock swill was the order of the day, but it didn&#8217;t stop people from passing out in the front bar or stocking up in the bottle-oh to go home and drink themselves into a stupor. You also couldn&#8217;t buy alcohol legally on a Sunday unless you were a bona fide traveller.<br />
When it becomes uncool to get blind drunk, behave like a moron and brag about it to an approving audience the next day, alcohol-related violence and associated health problems will no doubt decrease.</p>
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		<title>By: George Darroch</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443477</link>
		<dc:creator>George Darroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443477</guid>
		<description>All I know is that I lived in Wellington for years, a city of 250,000 with hundreds of bars, and have moved to Canberra, a city of 320,000 with a much lesser number. I have far less choices here, and definitely don't feel safer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I know is that I lived in Wellington for years, a city of 250,000 with hundreds of bars, and have moved to Canberra, a city of 320,000 with a much lesser number. I have far less choices here, and definitely don&#8217;t feel safer.</p>
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		<title>By: Iain</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443376</link>
		<dc:creator>Iain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443376</guid>
		<description>This whole issue is a pathetic beat up.  Melbourne has many bars.  It is also in my experience (and I have considerable) quite safe, probably safer than cities with less bars.  And lots of fun.  

Yes, alcohol abuse is a problem, but it is not the number of outlets that is the problem.  The background culture and the type of place makes much more difference.  After all, how many bars are there in those outback communities mentioned above?  The worst alcohol related behaviour I have witnessed has always been the result of either "all inclusive" functions, or people drinking at home.

And a note to Kevin Rudd and friends, if you in any way go about screwing things up now that Queensland is finally going to amend backwards liquor laws to allow more bars, you will not be getting my vote again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole issue is a pathetic beat up.  Melbourne has many bars.  It is also in my experience (and I have considerable) quite safe, probably safer than cities with less bars.  And lots of fun.  </p>
<p>Yes, alcohol abuse is a problem, but it is not the number of outlets that is the problem.  The background culture and the type of place makes much more difference.  After all, how many bars are there in those outback communities mentioned above?  The worst alcohol related behaviour I have witnessed has always been the result of either &#8220;all inclusive&#8221; functions, or people drinking at home.</p>
<p>And a note to Kevin Rudd and friends, if you in any way go about screwing things up now that Queensland is finally going to amend backwards liquor laws to allow more bars, you will not be getting my vote again.</p>
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		<title>By: Klaus K</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443372</link>
		<dc:creator>Klaus K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443372</guid>
		<description>Now that's an interesting point, Katz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that&#8217;s an interesting point, Katz.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443368</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443368</guid>
		<description>Ten years ago, after sundown, downtown Melbourne was like the Marie Celeste.

Since then, maybe 100,000 people have come to live in the CBD grid and immediate surrounds.

I'd guess most of these folks are young.

I'd hazard a guess that over the medium term assault rates etc in the CBD area haven't kept pace with the growth of the local population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ten years ago, after sundown, downtown Melbourne was like the Marie Celeste.</p>
<p>Since then, maybe 100,000 people have come to live in the CBD grid and immediate surrounds.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d guess most of these folks are young.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d hazard a guess that over the medium term assault rates etc in the CBD area haven&#8217;t kept pace with the growth of the local population.</p>
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		<title>By: jack strocchi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443365</link>
		<dc:creator>jack strocchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443365</guid>
		<description>I love the smell of a drying-out Wet in the morning. Smells like...victory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the smell of a drying-out Wet in the morning. Smells like&#8230;victory.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Tyler</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443341</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443341</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; Well how about fetal alcoholy syndrome? Ive seen a bit of it outback.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Strokey needs to be treated urgently for fetal alcoholy syndrome as well as foetal alcohol syndrome and must stop using mirrors.

Does his FAS account for &lt;b&gt;both&lt;/b&gt; heads being small, shrivelled and pointy?

&lt;blockquote&gt; Alcohol abuse  is causing congenital deformities amongst young women &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Strokey must stop seeing hallucinations of deformed multi-headed women while he is drunk

&lt;blockquote&gt; When I was a wee undergraduate 20 years ago&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Strokey was a bore even while a foetus &lt;i&gt;in vitro&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> Well how about fetal alcoholy syndrome? Ive seen a bit of it outback.</p></blockquote>
<p>Strokey needs to be treated urgently for fetal alcoholy syndrome as well as foetal alcohol syndrome and must stop using mirrors.</p>
<p>Does his FAS account for <b>both</b> heads being small, shrivelled and pointy?</p>
<blockquote><p> Alcohol abuse  is causing congenital deformities amongst young women </p></blockquote>
<p>Strokey must stop seeing hallucinations of deformed multi-headed women while he is drunk</p>
<blockquote><p> When I was a wee undergraduate 20 years ago</p></blockquote>
<p>Strokey was a bore even while a foetus <i>in vitro</i></p>
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		<title>By: lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443337</link>
		<dc:creator>lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443337</guid>
		<description>Shorter Strocchi: All women should be forced to be confined, well rested, and 100% free from pharmaceuticals, booze, and Brie from age 12 to 50, just in case they're pregnant, or are about to become so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Strocchi: All women should be forced to be confined, well rested, and 100% free from pharmaceuticals, booze, and Brie from age 12 to 50, just in case they&#8217;re pregnant, or are about to become so.</p>
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		<title>By: jack strocchi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443336</link>
		<dc:creator>jack strocchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443336</guid>
		<description>Mark says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt; interesting that you can perceive better than I that Iâ€™m a devotee of â€œpost-modern liberalismâ€?. I had no idea!&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt; 

Perhaps you should consider a quiet period of inner contemplation.

You continue to celebrate drinking culture because it is somehow "cool". That example illustrates the key difference between modern liberals and post-modern liberals. The former was concerned with social progress of the populace. The latter is concerned with social status of the elites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark says:</p>
<blockquote><p><i> interesting that you can perceive better than I that Iâ€™m a devotee of â€œpost-modern liberalismâ€?. I had no idea!</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps you should consider a quiet period of inner contemplation.</p>
<p>You continue to celebrate drinking culture because it is somehow &#8220;cool&#8221;. That example illustrates the key difference between modern liberals and post-modern liberals. The former was concerned with social progress of the populace. The latter is concerned with social status of the elites.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443335</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443335</guid>
		<description>Yeah, and that's so relevant to the question of opening hours of city pubs and how many licences there should be. Trust Mr Strocchi to make the disgraceful implication that anyone who disagrees with his tawdry puritanism condones child sexual abuse.

As Jason said, you're a clown, Jack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, and that&#8217;s so relevant to the question of opening hours of city pubs and how many licences there should be. Trust Mr Strocchi to make the disgraceful implication that anyone who disagrees with his tawdry puritanism condones child sexual abuse.</p>
<p>As Jason said, you&#8217;re a clown, Jack.</p>
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		<title>By: jack strocchi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443333</link>
		<dc:creator>jack strocchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443333</guid>
		<description>47 Mark &lt;a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443054" rel="nofollow"&gt;Feb 28th, 2008 at 10:00 am&lt;/a&gt; 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt; (2) The most significant shift has been increased drinking and binge drinking among women and girls. As Helen suggested, thatâ€™s actually not associated with violence, but as Jack Strocchi demonstrates, some people apparently donâ€™t think itâ€™s properly demure and ladylike. Thatâ€™s their problem, Iâ€™d suggest.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt; 

Well how about fetal alcoholy syndrome? Ive seen a bit of it outback. Its not ladylike alright, but it is also everyones problem, especially the innocent childs.

Alcohol abuse &lt;a href="â€?http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21125274-23289,00.htmlâ€?" rel="nofollow"&gt; is causing congenital deformities amongst young women&lt;/a&gt; who are partying wildly and getting stuck into the grog whilst they are pregnant.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;MORE than half of pregnant women may be damaging their unborn child's development by drinking alcohol.

More worryingly, the study - based on a survey of 4839 randomly selected non-indigenous West Australian mothers - also found that 80per cent of the women drank in the three months before pregnancy. 

If they were pregnant, this would be enough to risk causing fetal alcohol syndrome, &lt;b&gt;which results in abnormal facial features, growth deficiencies and central nervous system problems such as difficulties with learning, memory, attention span, communication, vision and hearing&lt;/b&gt;. 

But even drinking as little as one drink a week may cause lesser problems including deficient verbal and social skills, according to evidence cited in the study, published in the February edition of the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt; 

Needless to say the alcohol abuse problem is about an order of magnitude worse amongst indigenes, with predictable results in child sexual abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>47 Mark <a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443054" rel="nofollow">Feb 28th, 2008 at 10:00 am</a> </p>
<blockquote><p><i> (2) The most significant shift has been increased drinking and binge drinking among women and girls. As Helen suggested, thatâ€™s actually not associated with violence, but as Jack Strocchi demonstrates, some people apparently donâ€™t think itâ€™s properly demure and ladylike. Thatâ€™s their problem, Iâ€™d suggest.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Well how about fetal alcoholy syndrome? Ive seen a bit of it outback. Its not ladylike alright, but it is also everyones problem, especially the innocent childs.</p>
<p>Alcohol abuse <a href="â€?http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21125274-23289,00.htmlâ€?" rel="nofollow"> is causing congenital deformities amongst young women</a> who are partying wildly and getting stuck into the grog whilst they are pregnant.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>MORE than half of pregnant women may be damaging their unborn child&#8217;s development by drinking alcohol.</p>
<p>More worryingly, the study - based on a survey of 4839 randomly selected non-indigenous West Australian mothers - also found that 80per cent of the women drank in the three months before pregnancy. </p>
<p>If they were pregnant, this would be enough to risk causing fetal alcohol syndrome, <b>which results in abnormal facial features, growth deficiencies and central nervous system problems such as difficulties with learning, memory, attention span, communication, vision and hearing</b>. </p>
<p>But even drinking as little as one drink a week may cause lesser problems including deficient verbal and social skills, according to evidence cited in the study, published in the February edition of the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Needless to say the alcohol abuse problem is about an order of magnitude worse amongst indigenes, with predictable results in child sexual abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443331</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443331</guid>
		<description>It's not evidence at all. It's a bunch of statements. By people who agree with you.

Is this your approach as an "empirical social scientist" or whatever you call yourself?

As to the stats, they prove nothing. Different people may be presenting to the Youth Substance Abuse Service than were in 2002. None of those police figures correlate the assaults with alcohol. It's well known to criminologists that you can tell little or nothing from raw crime figures. The increase in assaults in the Melbourne CBD may simply be a function of more intense policing.

I note you completely ignored the ABS stats. Typical of your approach. Cherry pick whatever piffle has already been spun in the press to support your prejudices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not evidence at all. It&#8217;s a bunch of statements. By people who agree with you.</p>
<p>Is this your approach as an &#8220;empirical social scientist&#8221; or whatever you call yourself?</p>
<p>As to the stats, they prove nothing. Different people may be presenting to the Youth Substance Abuse Service than were in 2002. None of those police figures correlate the assaults with alcohol. It&#8217;s well known to criminologists that you can tell little or nothing from raw crime figures. The increase in assaults in the Melbourne CBD may simply be a function of more intense policing.</p>
<p>I note you completely ignored the ABS stats. Typical of your approach. Cherry pick whatever piffle has already been spun in the press to support your prejudices.</p>
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		<title>By: jack strocchi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443330</link>
		<dc:creator>jack strocchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443330</guid>
		<description>Mark says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;So much for evidence-based policies.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The evidence that unhealthy levels of alcohol abuse, especially in public, and associated violence are on the increase.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;ONE of the state's most senior youth workers has backed Dr Nieuwenhuysen's criticism of booze barns.

VICHEALTH CEO Todd Harper called for a moratorium on liquor licences amid concern about the availability of alcohol.

MENTAL Health Minister Liz Neville said there was no quick fix for the alcohol problem, warning of deep cultural ties with grog.

THE former head of the premier's drug prevention council wants greater curbs on liquor outlets.

Youth Substance Abuse Service CEO David Murray said that in 2002 the proportion of clients presenting with alcohol as a primary problem was 7 per cent. It had since jumped to 26 per cent.

"Our population is a bit like the canary down the mine," he said. It's telling us something's going on around this issue."&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

The &lt;a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/melbournes-nightlife-should-be-vibrant-not-violent/2008/02/22/1203467381621.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Age investigation&lt;/a&gt; into alchohol fuelled violence backs this up:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;data obtained by the Victorian Coalition through freedom of information reveals that crimes against individuals jumped by more than 100% in 12 Victorian outer-suburban and regional municipalities. 

According to police figures, during the past financial year there were more than 2000 assaults on Melbourne's streets, a 17% increase on the previous year and a 24% rise since 2003-04.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Is that enough evidence basing for ya, or do you want me to take you down to the gutter? 

A civilized drink is fine. Getting drunk in public is disgusting and disgraceful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark says:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>So much for evidence-based policies.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>The evidence that unhealthy levels of alcohol abuse, especially in public, and associated violence are on the increase.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>ONE of the state&#8217;s most senior youth workers has backed Dr Nieuwenhuysen&#8217;s criticism of booze barns.</p>
<p>VICHEALTH CEO Todd Harper called for a moratorium on liquor licences amid concern about the availability of alcohol.</p>
<p>MENTAL Health Minister Liz Neville said there was no quick fix for the alcohol problem, warning of deep cultural ties with grog.</p>
<p>THE former head of the premier&#8217;s drug prevention council wants greater curbs on liquor outlets.</p>
<p>Youth Substance Abuse Service CEO David Murray said that in 2002 the proportion of clients presenting with alcohol as a primary problem was 7 per cent. It had since jumped to 26 per cent.</p>
<p>&#8220;Our population is a bit like the canary down the mine,&#8221; he said. It&#8217;s telling us something&#8217;s going on around this issue.&#8221;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>The <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/melbournes-nightlife-should-be-vibrant-not-violent/2008/02/22/1203467381621.html" rel="nofollow">Age investigation</a> into alchohol fuelled violence backs this up:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>data obtained by the Victorian Coalition through freedom of information reveals that crimes against individuals jumped by more than 100% in 12 Victorian outer-suburban and regional municipalities. </p>
<p>According to police figures, during the past financial year there were more than 2000 assaults on Melbourne&#8217;s streets, a 17% increase on the previous year and a 24% rise since 2003-04.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Is that enough evidence basing for ya, or do you want me to take you down to the gutter? </p>
<p>A civilized drink is fine. Getting drunk in public is disgusting and disgraceful.</p>
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		<title>By: Kymbos</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443320</link>
		<dc:creator>Kymbos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/02/27/australia-1919/#comment-443320</guid>
		<description>I missed this debate, but Patrickg is on the money.  Cost, access and availability are the keys to alcohol harms.  Arguing for choice and competition as a reason for expansion of alcohol access is a failure for which we are now realising the costs. It's like arguing against seat belts as a hindrance to free choice.

The comments on gambling are ignorant in the extreme.  Bring on a separate post on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed this debate, but Patrickg is on the money.  Cost, access and availability are the keys to alcohol harms.  Arguing for choice and competition as a reason for expansion of alcohol access is a failure for which we are now realising the costs. It&#8217;s like arguing against seat belts as a hindrance to free choice.</p>
<p>The comments on gambling are ignorant in the extreme.  Bring on a separate post on that.</p>
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