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	<title>Comments on: Eight days a week</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449048</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449048</guid>
		<description>Funny thing about "Live and Let Die" was that only a few years before James Bond was saying that listeing to the Beatles without earuffs on was in bad taste.  And Connery was wearing this baby blue terry towelling jumpsuit when he said it. :)
&#62;
Can't find a picture in the 'Net sadly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny thing about &#8220;Live and Let Die&#8221; was that only a few years before James Bond was saying that listeing to the Beatles without earuffs on was in bad taste.  And Connery was wearing this baby blue terry towelling jumpsuit when he said it. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> &gt;<br />
Can&#8217;t find a picture in the &#8216;Net sadly.</p>
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		<title>By: darin</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449043</link>
		<dc:creator>darin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449043</guid>
		<description>That link is broken, Adrien. It doesn't point at "live and let die"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That link is broken, Adrien. It doesn&#8217;t point at &#8220;live and let die&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449013</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449013</guid>
		<description>Best thing Macca did after the Beatles broke up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anfnA2xJ6ng</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best thing Macca did after the Beatles broke up - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anfnA2xJ6ng" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anfnA2xJ6ng'>[link]</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Rubie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449003</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rubie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-449003</guid>
		<description>Spiros is right.  It was much easier making fun of &lt;a href="http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/03/audio_hoaxes_an.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Linda's singing&lt;/a&gt; than a bit of harmless gold digging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiros is right.  It was much easier making fun of <a href="http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/03/audio_hoaxes_an.html" rel="nofollow">Linda&#8217;s singing</a> than a bit of harmless gold digging.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiros</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448987</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448987</guid>
		<description>If only Linda hadn't got cancer, then everything would have been all right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only Linda hadn&#8217;t got cancer, then everything would have been all right.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448964</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448964</guid>
		<description>Pretty much what I've been saying. I tend not to think of society as a structure. Su made some reference to a 'demolished patriarchy'. To me society is the sum of human relations of various kinds. The skeletal framework (to use a metaphor) is the law. This is not patriarchal. Many sexist practises and attitudes persist. There's also the question as to how different men and women are and how this will affect a 'post-feminist' society. Will such a society feature as many men and women in the military for example? 
&#62;
Of course there is discourse that suggest that us chaps are on the way out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much what I&#8217;ve been saying. I tend not to think of society as a structure. Su made some reference to a &#8216;demolished patriarchy&#8217;. To me society is the sum of human relations of various kinds. The skeletal framework (to use a metaphor) is the law. This is not patriarchal. Many sexist practises and attitudes persist. There&#8217;s also the question as to how different men and women are and how this will affect a &#8216;post-feminist&#8217; society. Will such a society feature as many men and women in the military for example?<br />
&gt;<br />
Of course there is discourse that suggest that us chaps are on the way out.</p>
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		<title>By: Raye</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448955</link>
		<dc:creator>Raye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448955</guid>
		<description>We may not be a patriarchy, the way we were incontestably say 200 years ago, but many of the dilemmas we are facing as a society are due to the remaining patriarchal structures, unevenly dismantled over the past 150 years (very roughly speaking).  Women are no longer second class citizens, which is not the same thing as saying that they no longer face any difficulties because they are women, and as a culture we are more aware of structural inequalities across different lines such as class, race, sexuality, etc, etc.  But many of the institutions put in place to create and sustain a white man's world still cast long shadows over society.  The law one could argue is still very paternalistic in disposition, for example.  But I agree Adrien I feel that as a society we are in the midst of creating a post - patriarchal culture, but there is still a lot of culture baggage that needs to be addressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We may not be a patriarchy, the way we were incontestably say 200 years ago, but many of the dilemmas we are facing as a society are due to the remaining patriarchal structures, unevenly dismantled over the past 150 years (very roughly speaking).  Women are no longer second class citizens, which is not the same thing as saying that they no longer face any difficulties because they are women, and as a culture we are more aware of structural inequalities across different lines such as class, race, sexuality, etc, etc.  But many of the institutions put in place to create and sustain a white man&#8217;s world still cast long shadows over society.  The law one could argue is still very paternalistic in disposition, for example.  But I agree Adrien I feel that as a society we are in the midst of creating a post - patriarchal culture, but there is still a lot of culture baggage that needs to be addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448936</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448936</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I am really not strong on social theory. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes Su and it shows. It would be nice if you tried to understand what my assertions are in good faith rather than making over-simplistic proclamations re the deployment of power in our society coupled with comments that are both patronising and rude.
&#62;
I have not in any way argued that "there is a simple hierarchy with the complex at the top". I didn't make any reference to this fallacy re evolution. I simply point out a fact there species apart from ours that organize into hierarchies. I put it to you that, as we are primates and primates tend to form hierarchies, the hierarchies of our society have developed from 'natural' hierarchies. Humans tend to contemplate and even resist and modify 'natural' circumstance. Feminism, democracy, socialism can be conceieved as movements that do just that. And I've read Stephen Jay Gould too. Most stimulating.
&#62;
You ask me to define "‘merit’ in a way that is free of the operations of patriarchy?". This is quite simple. You are a graphic designer. You work at a firm with other graphic designers. The Art Director's position comes up. You're the best, the most talented, the hardest working. You get the gig. Oh and you're a woman. But your gender was irrellevant in the selection process. Ta-dah!
&#62;
Your notions about the relative values of a street sweeper and a company executive are questions of class. The relationship between patriarchy - the political rule of men, and class society - the socio-economic stratification of civilization are too complex for a comment but I don't think one is intrinsically part of the other. So long as society operates along hierarchies and has streets and has company executives there will be this hierarchy. A street sweeper is not, in my view, worth less than a company exec. In fact they are more essential. But we live in a market economy, what can you do?
&#62;
My point re patriarchy, do we live in one, was not a declaration that feminism is now irrellevant. Nor was it an observation that women as a group are equal to men. Nor was I saying that sexual discrimination and/or misogyny are not problems. If I were saying so I would be talking nonsense. What I mean is that political rule of men over women is a thing of the past. That our society can no longer be regarded as one that &lt;i&gt;systematically&lt;/i&gt; excludes and represses people on the basis of sex. In fact our society has many legal mechanisms that do the opposite. Have women achieved social equality? No. We are, I believe, &lt;i&gt;transforming&lt;/i&gt; from one state of affairs to another. 
&#62;
Now perhaps I'm being too optimistic. I am a man and as such I simply don't see the shit a lot of women have to put up with. I do see a lot of it. I don't think it's &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; progress. If I had to guess I'd say misogyny has been enjoying a revival in the culture over the last little while. But overall, over the long term there has been progress. Progress to the extent that I don't believe our society can be regarded as a patriarchy in the strict sense of the word. Is it still sexist? Yes. Is there still a way to go? Yes. Patriarchy? I don't think so.
&#62;
You may disagree but if you do so I'd suggest acquiring a more sophisticated understanding of matters social. Learning to read well enough not make such foolish assumptions about what I'm writing. And refrain from making snide allusions to my mother. That's simply rude and unnecessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am really not strong on social theory. </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes Su and it shows. It would be nice if you tried to understand what my assertions are in good faith rather than making over-simplistic proclamations re the deployment of power in our society coupled with comments that are both patronising and rude.<br />
&gt;<br />
I have not in any way argued that &#8220;there is a simple hierarchy with the complex at the top&#8221;. I didn&#8217;t make any reference to this fallacy re evolution. I simply point out a fact there species apart from ours that organize into hierarchies. I put it to you that, as we are primates and primates tend to form hierarchies, the hierarchies of our society have developed from &#8216;natural&#8217; hierarchies. Humans tend to contemplate and even resist and modify &#8216;natural&#8217; circumstance. Feminism, democracy, socialism can be conceieved as movements that do just that. And I&#8217;ve read Stephen Jay Gould too. Most stimulating.<br />
&gt;<br />
You ask me to define &#8220;‘merit’ in a way that is free of the operations of patriarchy?&#8221;. This is quite simple. You are a graphic designer. You work at a firm with other graphic designers. The Art Director&#8217;s position comes up. You&#8217;re the best, the most talented, the hardest working. You get the gig. Oh and you&#8217;re a woman. But your gender was irrellevant in the selection process. Ta-dah!<br />
&gt;<br />
Your notions about the relative values of a street sweeper and a company executive are questions of class. The relationship between patriarchy - the political rule of men, and class society - the socio-economic stratification of civilization are too complex for a comment but I don&#8217;t think one is intrinsically part of the other. So long as society operates along hierarchies and has streets and has company executives there will be this hierarchy. A street sweeper is not, in my view, worth less than a company exec. In fact they are more essential. But we live in a market economy, what can you do?<br />
&gt;<br />
My point re patriarchy, do we live in one, was not a declaration that feminism is now irrellevant. Nor was it an observation that women as a group are equal to men. Nor was I saying that sexual discrimination and/or misogyny are not problems. If I were saying so I would be talking nonsense. What I mean is that political rule of men over women is a thing of the past. That our society can no longer be regarded as one that <i>systematically</i> excludes and represses people on the basis of sex. In fact our society has many legal mechanisms that do the opposite. Have women achieved social equality? No. We are, I believe, <i>transforming</i> from one state of affairs to another.<br />
&gt;<br />
Now perhaps I&#8217;m being too optimistic. I am a man and as such I simply don&#8217;t see the shit a lot of women have to put up with. I do see a lot of it. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s <i>all</i> progress. If I had to guess I&#8217;d say misogyny has been enjoying a revival in the culture over the last little while. But overall, over the long term there has been progress. Progress to the extent that I don&#8217;t believe our society can be regarded as a patriarchy in the strict sense of the word. Is it still sexist? Yes. Is there still a way to go? Yes. Patriarchy? I don&#8217;t think so.<br />
&gt;<br />
You may disagree but if you do so I&#8217;d suggest acquiring a more sophisticated understanding of matters social. Learning to read well enough not make such foolish assumptions about what I&#8217;m writing. And refrain from making snide allusions to my mother. That&#8217;s simply rude and unnecessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Raye</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448860</link>
		<dc:creator>Raye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448860</guid>
		<description>Sorry Casey.  It was your link that I liked.  #40</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Casey.  It was your link that I liked.  #40</p>
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		<title>By: Raye</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448851</link>
		<dc:creator>Raye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448851</guid>
		<description>Jane #102
It may not be our business per se, but the media exposure it has garnered makes it a good jumping off point for the discussion of a number of topics.  The role of the media, the politics involved in carving up ridiculous amounts of wealth, the gender stereo-types/archetypes being portrayed in the media, the adequacy of current alimony/divorce proceedings, etc etc.  Their divorce is not our business but this particular case hits upon a lot of political issues, particularly gender ones that are more than worthy of discussion.
Darlene I really enjoyed that link to the Britney story.  I like the analysis of the harshness judgements re mums and madness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane #102<br />
It may not be our business per se, but the media exposure it has garnered makes it a good jumping off point for the discussion of a number of topics.  The role of the media, the politics involved in carving up ridiculous amounts of wealth, the gender stereo-types/archetypes being portrayed in the media, the adequacy of current alimony/divorce proceedings, etc etc.  Their divorce is not our business but this particular case hits upon a lot of political issues, particularly gender ones that are more than worthy of discussion.<br />
Darlene I really enjoyed that link to the Britney story.  I like the analysis of the harshness judgements re mums and madness.</p>
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		<title>By: laura</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448840</link>
		<dc:creator>laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448840</guid>
		<description>Su, the planet you were wondering about at #83 is called Annares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Su, the planet you were wondering about at #83 is called Annares.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448835</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448835</guid>
		<description>Remind me again why someone else's divorce and financial settlement is headline news and &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;our business&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remind me again why someone else&#8217;s divorce and financial settlement is headline news and <strong><em>our business</em><em><strong>?</strong></em></strong></p>
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		<title>By: su</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448745</link>
		<dc:creator>su</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448745</guid>
		<description>I remember a forum debate about the Minangkabau which was confusing because their society is outside the patriarchal/matriarchal distinction in some ways. It is matrilineal and matrifocal but power is shared in various ways. On the other hand the gender roles are very strictly defined.  On the same forum another people, the Batek, were mentioned whose hierarchies are ungendered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a forum debate about the Minangkabau which was confusing because their society is outside the patriarchal/matriarchal distinction in some ways. It is matrilineal and matrifocal but power is shared in various ways. On the other hand the gender roles are very strictly defined.  On the same forum another people, the Batek, were mentioned whose hierarchies are ungendered.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448738</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448738</guid>
		<description>GregM, you have a quasi-monopoly (aka Chaebol) on misconceived fixations.

Please don't change.

(As if change were possible.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GregM, you have a quasi-monopoly (aka Chaebol) on misconceived fixations.</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t change.</p>
<p>(As if change were possible.)</p>
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		<title>By: GregM</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448731</link>
		<dc:creator>GregM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448731</guid>
		<description>Can't produce the evidence for your argument (again) then, Katz?

Well that goes down with, among others,your propositions on the benign British policies towards the Irish in the 19th and 20th centuries, South Korea's trade policy vis-a-vis Japan and the political legitimacy of the Castro regime, in which you introduced the gloriously risible interpretive tool of Ideational Flexibility. We thank you for that treasure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t produce the evidence for your argument (again) then, Katz?</p>
<p>Well that goes down with, among others,your propositions on the benign British policies towards the Irish in the 19th and 20th centuries, South Korea&#8217;s trade policy vis-a-vis Japan and the political legitimacy of the Castro regime, in which you introduced the gloriously risible interpretive tool of Ideational Flexibility. We thank you for that treasure.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448727</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448727</guid>
		<description>Well, thank you GregM for pouncing upon my tethered goat argument above. (#89)

My actual issue was with the notion that hierarchies were "inherently" patriarchal.

As it takes only one counter-example to disprove the contention, you've done all the hard work for me.

That's the form of division of labour I support whole-heartedly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, thank you GregM for pouncing upon my tethered goat argument above. (#89)</p>
<p>My actual issue was with the notion that hierarchies were &#8220;inherently&#8221; patriarchal.</p>
<p>As it takes only one counter-example to disprove the contention, you&#8217;ve done all the hard work for me.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the form of division of labour I support whole-heartedly.</p>
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		<title>By: GregM</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448724</link>
		<dc:creator>GregM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448724</guid>
		<description>Katz
&lt;blockquote&gt;You name one and I’ll show you how it inherited its characteristics from a pre-existing patriarchal system.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Katz
&lt;blockquote&gt;The Minangkabau, who practise that famously anti-patriarchal religion — Islam?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Minangkabau were a matriarchal society &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt;  they adopted Islam, Katz. 

So tell us all you know about their&lt;em&gt; pre-existing&lt;/em&gt; patriarchal system.

Do try to keep up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz</p>
<blockquote><p>You name one and I’ll show you how it inherited its characteristics from a pre-existing patriarchal system.</p></blockquote>
<p>Katz</p>
<blockquote><p>The Minangkabau, who practise that famously anti-patriarchal religion — Islam?</p></blockquote>
<p>The Minangkabau were a matriarchal society <em>before</em>  they adopted Islam, Katz. </p>
<p>So tell us all you know about their<em> pre-existing</em> patriarchal system.</p>
<p>Do try to keep up.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448717</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448717</guid>
		<description>The Minangkabau, who practise that famously anti-patriarchal religion -- Islam?

Jus' wonderin'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Minangkabau, who practise that famously anti-patriarchal religion &#8212; Islam?</p>
<p>Jus&#8217; wonderin&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: GregM</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448712</link>
		<dc:creator>GregM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448712</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Where are the “inherently” anti-patriarchal hierarchies?

You name one and I’ll show you how it inherited its characteristics from a pre-existing patriarchal system.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Minangkabau? 

Just wondering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Where are the “inherently” anti-patriarchal hierarchies?</p>
<p>You name one and I’ll show you how it inherited its characteristics from a pre-existing patriarchal system.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Minangkabau? </p>
<p>Just wondering.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448706</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/03/19/eight-days-a-week/#comment-448706</guid>
		<description>Well, let's put it this way, FDB. It's pretty clear if you look at anthropological history that both co-operation and command are necessary features of any society - along with a division of labour. That goes for hunters and gatherers as well as agricultural peoples, etc. I don't necessarily hold to the view extrapolated from archaeological and other evidence that patriarchy was coincident in time with a shift to agriculture from transhumance - it's one big extrapolation from figurines such as the Venus of Willendorf and from contested readings of myth or attempts to find some ur-myth behind textual evidence, and one that has its own ideological content. Rather, I'd argue that patriarchy has tended to coincide with hierarchy emphasised as opposed to co-operative forms of labour, society and politics. You can never escape hierarchy as such insofar as it's a necessary part of any elaborate division of labour (and arguably of more simple divisions of labour) but it doesn't need to be the privileged organising principle. It can be something subordinated to democracy. Note that interests don't need to be identical, just coincident for co-operation to occur - there can still be self-interest in a libertarian and socialist democracy. But interests needn't be coincidental either with sex - and gender needn't be binary. The real poison in hierarchy is when it's (a) anti-democratic and (b) hierarchised according to lines of difference - ie gender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let&#8217;s put it this way, FDB. It&#8217;s pretty clear if you look at anthropological history that both co-operation and command are necessary features of any society - along with a division of labour. That goes for hunters and gatherers as well as agricultural peoples, etc. I don&#8217;t necessarily hold to the view extrapolated from archaeological and other evidence that patriarchy was coincident in time with a shift to agriculture from transhumance - it&#8217;s one big extrapolation from figurines such as the Venus of Willendorf and from contested readings of myth or attempts to find some ur-myth behind textual evidence, and one that has its own ideological content. Rather, I&#8217;d argue that patriarchy has tended to coincide with hierarchy emphasised as opposed to co-operative forms of labour, society and politics. You can never escape hierarchy as such insofar as it&#8217;s a necessary part of any elaborate division of labour (and arguably of more simple divisions of labour) but it doesn&#8217;t need to be the privileged organising principle. It can be something subordinated to democracy. Note that interests don&#8217;t need to be identical, just coincident for co-operation to occur - there can still be self-interest in a libertarian and socialist democracy. But interests needn&#8217;t be coincidental either with sex - and gender needn&#8217;t be binary. The real poison in hierarchy is when it&#8217;s (a) anti-democratic and (b) hierarchised according to lines of difference - ie gender.</p>
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