Comments on: Avalon II http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/ Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:08:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Darryl Rosin http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460953 Darryl Rosin Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:18:08 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460953 Slighty(?) off-topic, but the ABC is reporting that Tristam Cary has died in Adelaide. d Slighty(?) off-topic, but the ABC is reporting that Tristam Cary has died in Adelaide.

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]]> By: David http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460920 David Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:22:34 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460920 My musical tastes have broadened rather than changed over the years. I've always liked both blues and baroque, but have fairly recently started to enjoy modern jazz (well ... not really modern ... stuff like Monk and Dolphy, which was mostly recorded before my balls had dropped). I even like some rap, and much more C&W than I did 40 years ago. I draw the line at metal and prog rock though - most of it seems to be self-indulgent, played by clever musicians who don't actually have anything to say. My musical tastes have broadened rather than changed over the years. I’ve always liked both blues and baroque, but have fairly recently started to enjoy modern jazz (well … not really modern … stuff like Monk and Dolphy, which was mostly recorded before my balls had dropped). I even like some rap, and much more C&W than I did 40 years ago. I draw the line at metal and prog rock though - most of it seems to be self-indulgent, played by clever musicians who don’t actually have anything to say.

]]> By: Roger Jones http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460886 Roger Jones Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:52:04 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460886 Must agree with Dave Bath. The notion of complexity and "bandwidth" is one I subscribe to - my tastes are complex, my partner's are not. Two of my sons share this complexity, the third does not. Interestingly, native musical ability (not of the learned type) correlates pretty highly with this, with three singers and two (mostly) non-singers, though we all like music. As a teenager, I had debates with musical friends as to who would be listing to MoR by the time they were forty. Shamefully, my tastes have become even more extreme since then and I am listening to most types of complex metal, prog, industrial, experimental, world, pretty much anything with a wall of sound, or contrapuntal music. Layered, swirling trance is fine. Dislike country, 4/4 folk and most Top 40 material. The other aspect though, is visceral or emotional music, anything with charge, which does pick up a few simple forms. I don't think music is stratified according to generations so much any more and the complexity argument is much more powerful. If you are listening to Top 40 now, you will be in thirty years. The rest of you freaks, rock on. Though what do we do with 80 year old Goths, Rivetheads, Metal Freaks and Techno Babes? The retirement home of the future may need a mosh (Mash?) pit. Must agree with Dave Bath. The notion of complexity and “bandwidth” is one I subscribe to - my tastes are complex, my partner’s are not. Two of my sons share this complexity, the third does not. Interestingly, native musical ability (not of the learned type) correlates pretty highly with this, with three singers and two (mostly) non-singers, though we all like music.

As a teenager, I had debates with musical friends as to who would be listing to MoR by the time they were forty. Shamefully, my tastes have become even more extreme since then and I am listening to most types of complex metal, prog, industrial, experimental, world, pretty much anything with a wall of sound, or contrapuntal music. Layered, swirling trance is fine. Dislike country, 4/4 folk and most Top 40 material. The other aspect though, is visceral or emotional music, anything with charge, which does pick up a few simple forms.

I don’t think music is stratified according to generations so much any more and the complexity argument is much more powerful. If you are listening to Top 40 now, you will be in thirty years. The rest of you freaks, rock on.

Though what do we do with 80 year old Goths, Rivetheads, Metal Freaks and Techno Babes? The retirement home of the future may need a mosh (Mash?) pit.

]]> By: Darryl Rosin http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460863 Darryl Rosin Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:02:37 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460863 Human infants can't discriminate octaves either. They develop the skill sometimes are early as two years old and usually by five. d Human infants can’t discriminate octaves either. They develop the skill sometimes are early as two years old and usually by five.

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]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460798 Mark Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:22:14 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460798 Do you remember anything about the methodology, Dave? And when the differences are established? Do you remember anything about the methodology, Dave? And when the differences are established?

]]> By: Dave Bath http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460758 Dave Bath Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:48:06 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/27/avalon-ii/#comment-460758 There was a New Scientist article a few years back that talked of a significant correlation between information rate and people's taste. Above or below an individuals "bandwidth" they were either overloaded or bored, and thus didn't like the music. Of course, different individuals had different "information bandwidth comfort zones": which is why someone who likes a 5 part fugues, lots of key changes, etc doesn't mind Emerson Lake and Palmer but gets driven bonkers by Rondo Alla Turca and elevator music. So, I'd expect that even if the genre changes with age, the degree of comfort with a particular density won't. Recent studies looked at music preference of non-humans. See <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/brain/mg19726441.200-music-special-the-roots-of-music.html" rel="nofollow">New Scientist 2008-Feb</a> and <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Link&db=pubmed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=16597745" rel="nofollow">this search</a> Yep. The monkeys didn't mind gentle baroque, but hated doof doof. Weirdly, they treated a melody as DIFFERENT if played a tone or two up or down, but treated melodies an octave apart as the same. There was a New Scientist article a few years back that talked of a significant correlation between information rate and people’s taste. Above or below an individuals “bandwidth” they were either overloaded or bored, and thus didn’t like the music. Of course, different individuals had different “information bandwidth comfort zones”: which is why someone who likes a 5 part fugues, lots of key changes, etc doesn’t mind Emerson Lake and Palmer but gets driven bonkers by Rondo Alla Turca and elevator music. So, I’d expect that even if the genre changes with age, the degree of comfort with a particular density won’t.

Recent studies looked at music preference of non-humans.
See New Scientist 2008-Feb and this search
Yep. The monkeys didn’t mind gentle baroque, but hated doof doof. Weirdly, they treated a melody as DIFFERENT if played a tone or two up or down, but treated melodies an octave apart as the same.

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