Okay, I relented and watched a bit of Big Brother tonight, influenced by Kim no doubt. Nothing to report on that score except that Corey has that gawky teen boy thing happening in a big way - reminds me of certain nephews I know. Anyway, after Big Brother there was a new show on called How to Look Good Naked that demanded that women celebrate their bodies, and love themselves too. Carson Kressley, that guy who was one of the “Queer Eyes”, basically talked a woman out of her bad body image. Why it takes a guy to tell a woman not to obsess about her weight is beyond me, but it’s a fun and worthy show that hopefully will influence some females to think again about the modern mania with looking like a twig. Oh, and Good News Week is on now. Haven’t watched it for ages, and now I remember why. Laugh, nope I’m not.
Ha!
Great minds, etc. I was going to post on this!
I think the idea that the end result of the whole process is a nude photo shoot is a bit troubling though. Though I’ve done a nude photo shoot myself back in the day. But you know what I mean - there’s a bit of a normative thing that goes beyond “how to feel good about yourself” and morphs into “how to look good nekkid so blokes will like you”.
Well, I never watch the TV so tonight was a big one for me.
I think the naked thing was not just about looking good nekkid for the blokes, but also just to make the woman confront her ultimate fear in a way. However, it wasn’t necessary. What struck me is how much energy we womenfolk put into obsessing about this issue. Such a waste of energy. Kressley, the ultimate unthreatening gay boy, suggested she could have been doing other things instead.
What it’s be interesting is to see a queer woman in that role, but perhaps straight women wouldn’t buy into that.
Oh, and girls, buy the right sized bra.
That’s an interesting question!
It was always a large part of the fun of Queer Eye to see how the straight boys reacted to the queer boys.
I think the motif in this show is “girl needs boy to tell her how to look, but nice non-judgemental gay boy who knows about looking good will do it in a non-threatening manner”. Which is another dodgy aspect.
But hey, it’s fun, and it’s not a bad message to convey on tv!
That should have read, “What would be interesting is to see a queer woman….etc”. I don’t think I’ll ever learn not to type (badly) in a hurry.
It’s a good message, I think, and one has to be a realist about a half hour show on commerical TV. I enjoyed the “Naked” show and I thought Kressley was good.
Oh yes, those straight boys and the queer boys. That show (Queer Eye) very much depended on the idea that straight men have no style and need gay men to teach them how to get some (so straight girls have no self-esteem and need a gay boy to give them some).
The reason we won’t have a queer woman doing such a show is that the idea that dykes have no style either, which is crap. I can think of a very cute dyke who always looks lovely and wears the best perfume and….enough of that.
Anyways, as I said, good show, good message, and about time.
eeeeeeeeexxxxxxxccccceeepppptt queer eye was so judgmental about how MEN were supposed to look!
Oh yes, this is the strange thing, “Queer Eye” was way judgemental, but “Naked” wasn’t.
Interesting the different approaches taken to the men who appeared on “Queer” and to the woman who appeared on “Naked” tonight.
Segue alert!
I watched the big mouth Big Brother thing at 9 30. One point Rebecca Wilson (who I have a lot of time for) made was that when she was in her early 20s, young women didn’t spend lots of time obsessing and chatting about their boobs, and boob jobs would have been unheard of. That surely goes to body image, among other things (though I’d like to know if it’s women in their early 20s in general, or just women in the early 20s who are Big Brother contestants!)… Comments, anyone?
There’s a British show of the same name which has been around for a while, so I guess the American show is a rip-off of that. I used to watch it, because I really liked the way the guy made a lot of plus-size women feel confident about their bodies and showed them how to dress to look fabulous. Like Trinny and Susannah I guess, except for the naked photo shoot and the enormous billboard in a public place.
It also emphasised that most women misjudge their size-pretty well all the women who took part thought they were several sizes bigger than they really were. How good would that be- you drop 2 or 3 dress sizes and you haven’t even had to give up chocolate? Sigh!
From what I remember, he was judgemental about clothes, but not about bodies, in Queer Eye. Which he is here, too, in a way, although he was more polite about it.
I dunno Anna, advice was often given to men about how to dress to flatter their body shape as I recall.
Which is what he did with this woman, too. He was more “wear this”, as opposed to “don’t wear this” with the men, but aside from that I don’t think one is more or less judgemental than the other.
Yes, agreed.
I still really enjoyed it, though. Even if it’s a little sad that something so simple as encouraging body acceptance feels so cutting edge!
My feelings exactly!
I hope, being on after BB, it pulls in a lot of the same audience. That could be really useful I think at least as a starting point.
Be fair Darlene, there was at least one good joke on channel 10 last night.
Well something noxious as hell has happened since Rebecca Wilson was a girl. Raunch culture???????????
Good assessment, Jane, and I agree with that. Getting advice to dress in a way that accentuates your positives is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that.
“I still really enjoyed it, though. Even if it’s a little sad that something so simple as encouraging body acceptance feels so cutting edge!”
Beautiful point, Anna. It shouldn’t even need to be on. It’s bloody ridiculous want we women have accepted as truth.
Tony D, do you mean Corey or do you mean there was one good joke on Good News Week? I didn’t watch GNW long enough to see any. Of course, I was a joke and my TV was on Channel 10 last night.
Thanks Darlene, do you think we’re more shallow these days? I’m no spring chicken, but I don’t remember us being quite so obsessed about appearance when I was in my teens and twenties. We wanted to be in fashion, but there didn’t seem to be so much pressure to conform to the latest trend. Of course, trends didn’t change at the speed of light then, either. Biros were a novelty!
There has been an incredible proliferation of print and other media devoted to appearance, compared to my teens and twenties. No Dolly or Marie Claire in them dark and dreary days. Having said that, tv was in its infancy in this country when I was an early teen and Graham Kerr was gasp-worthy! Aaaggghhh!!!!
Women and girls were definitely less obsessed with the size of their boobs etc and plastic surgery was for people who had been disfigured in some ghastly accident or for very wealthy matrons to discreetly remove the odd chin and wrinkle. Definitely no boob jobs, you had to put up with what you had.
I suppose the celebrity thing had started in the 60s when Jean Shrimpton and Twiggy bobbed up. As I remember, that’s when pressure to be ultra-thin began. the rest is history.
Cheers, Jane. Oh gosh yes, I agree with your analysis totally. I am 40 years old and this ridiculous obsession thing probably only kicked in 10 to 15 years ago. There was one girl who had a boob job at high school, but that was a reduction. It’s just sad, sad, sad what we’ve come to.
Graham Kerr?
Regarding body size for women, I have noticed the mixed messages the MSM gives out. On one hand you have women magazines and programs such as ‘Today Tonight’ or ‘A Current Affair’ having stories about how some starlet starved herself to almost to death, but then having stories about some celebrity carrying extra weight, and getting ‘fashion experts’ criticise this.
A story about Therese Rein and looking ‘frumpy’ on the world stage being a recent example.
Oh yes, the Therese “frump” stories. Ridiculous. The mixed messages women get are incredible. One week Who will have “Big Fat Stars in Bikinis” and the next week it’ll be “Skinny Stars Starving to Death”.
“One week Who will have “Big Fat Stars in Bikinis” and the next week it’ll be “Skinny Stars Starving to Death”.”
And usually it is the SAME celebrities, sometimes even using the same photos.
Australia’s first-ever (I believe) TV celebrity chef.
And it’s usually the same people. Sometimes it’s even the same photos.
“And it’s usually the same people. Sometimes it’s even the same photos.”
Great minds. I posted the same thing but it hasn’t appeared.
That’s so true.
As Britney does sing:
I’m Mrs. Lifestyles of the rich and famous
(You want a piece of me)
I’m Mrs. Oh my God that Britney’s Shameless
(You want a piece of me)
I’m Mrs. Extra! Extra! this just in
(You want a piece of me)
I’m Mrs. she’s too big now she’s too thin
(You want a piece of me)
I know a few women who are actually extraordinarily beautiful but trying to convince them that’s the case is impossible. Just sayin’.
Paul Burns,
does it feel strange to break in on this conversation? I’m male.
That’s my experience too, Paul. I have met several exceptionally beautiful women. I think most blokes have. Their beauty shines above the fairly ordinary standards of Hollywood or “glamour” TV. But you’d be hard pressed to convince some of them.
A few weeks ago on LP I opined that Mme Angelina is fairly ugly. I find her face harsh and simple. Of course it’s a matter of taste.
The beautiful women I’m thinking of, one of whom is my wife, have in addition to their physical beauty, an inner beauty that glows in a smile, a glance, a walk. But you may need to get to know her before you’ll see that (or before she lets you see that, if she’s shy).
***************
I agree with Darlene that one factor at work may be ‘raunch culture’, noxious, tedious, demeaning, dispiriting, etc.
***************
But I’d prefer to dwell on the beauty that Paul and I know. {sigh}
Ambigulous,
Doesn’t feel strange, Ambigulous. Everyone can appreciate beauty.
Pollytickedoff, sorry, you’ve been caught up in the grip of the Spaminator!
“Pollytickedoff, sorry, you’ve been caught up in the grip of the Spaminator”
Was it because I wrote I thought you were weird?
I take it back. I didn’t really mean it (much).
On Pay tv this week they had a show about a UK celebrity who starved herself down to size 0 just to see what the effect was. Louise Redknapp. She was skinny to start with and did some unholy things to herself to fit in a size 0 dress, it was disturbing.
Old Carson kressley gives me the kreeeps though. Anyone that obsessed with the removal of facial/body hair needs a good talking to.
Paul,
Yes, true. We can all appreciate beauty.
But why is it that many of us blokes don’t seem to get so anxious about our body image. I’m old, fat, greying, etc. Is it the patriarchy? (We can just bloody well do as we please; we’re not “trained” to hope for approving appraisals by strangers??)
I dunno.
Whatever women look like, or dress like they get it wrong, so it seems.
Ambigulous, I think you’ll find more and more young men are starting to get similar anxieties.
It must think you’re weird, Pollytickedoff!
In any case, the more times we dig you out of the Spaminator, hopefully the quicker it learns that it’s come up with a false positive.
Ambigulous, I think a lot of men my age and younger do worry about body image. I think it’s related to the increased sexualisation of the male body in advertising and other media since the early 90s. Eating disorders among men are now not uncommon, whereas they were very uncommon before the 90s.
Enhancement of physical beauty is often little more than vanity and a lazy road to approval.
Big problems arise when beauty is seen to be a marker for other virtues, like intelligence, leadership, moral goodness.
For males, tall candidates beat short candidates. Hirsute candidates beat bald candidates, and woebetide the bald candidate who is caught wearing a rug!
Women’s problems are compounded by their tenuous position in hierarchies.
Also difficult for women is the pervading ethos of passivity that legitimises the position of women as the object, as the observed, as the subject of judgment.
One could implore women to grow a spine about these matters. However, it cannot be gainsaid that the status of women as peripheral in power structures makes such advice inappropriate and callous.
It would seem to me that redress of power imbalances is the primary objective, but long-standing structures and attitudes make achievement of that object a very distant prospect altogether.
Thus it seems highly likely that women will continue to internalise the judgements of others, or worse still, will continue to be frozen by embarrassment by the mere prospect of judgement by others.
“It must think you’re weird, Pollytickedoff!”
What worries me is it might be right
Weird can be good! Just ask these folks:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Weird-Ann-VanderMeer/dp/1892391554
Mark,
sorry to hear you YOUNG guys are now increasingly worried about body image… as if you didn’t have enough on your plate [or in your case insufficient on your plate
] without that stuff
cheerio
old, fat, greying but amazingly wise
Unless the hirsuteness extends to the male face, Katz @37. My spouse is right out of the mix being both short and bearded. However, we all think he’s just right. In fact, he did become clean shaven once when the kids were little and they all ran around gathering up the hair for me to stick back on his face-one even got the glue.
And you’re spot on re women. How else do we explain the extreme vitriol directed at Hillary Clinton? She was nowhere near as vilified when she was just Bill’s handbag, but did cop it because her hair, make-up, clothing and figure didn’t come up to scratch, apparently. Forget the fact that she was a successful high-powered career woman in her own right. Ditto Cherie Blair and now Therese Rein. So far, Therese Rein has resisted the personal trainer. On a more positive note though, Amanda Vanstone has successfully thumbed her nose at any pressure to conform to the accepted stereotype.
Darlene, just call me grandma. Sigh!
Well, on hirsuteness, how about the big trend this decade for young males to remove body hair? Waxing, shaving, permanent hair removal, all manner of depilation - it’s all big biz and it’s happened in synch with the female Brazilian mania. Imho it’s a very interesting cultural phenomenon.
Male day spas are huge now too.
And HR publications are advising botox and hair transplants to keep that youthful look in the recruitment/promotion stakes!
Everyone:
What a wonderful world we live in …. where women come in all shapes and sizes. Where women who do not excel in intelligent conversation or other wonderful things usually have some nice quality or another.
It seems to me that in order to stop women objecting to their being objectified, they are now allowed to objectify men. (What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, but its really not good for the goose or the gander). I’m thinking ManPower and all sexy male type advertising that seems to be proliferating, so now men are internalising the message that they too have to be sexually alluring and handsome. Or is society just getting more vain, self obsessed, and objectifying?
Better not call you grandma, Jane, because my grandmother (Violet) is no longer with us. She died at the age of 86 and let me tell you she was so involved with stuff (races, cooking, social clubs, blah blah blah) she didn’t have time to sit around thinking about her weight. And let me tell she enjoyed eating those cakes as much as she enjoyed making them.
I am sure that’s true of you boys as well, Graham.
“Or is society just getting more vain, self obsessed, and objectifying?”
Yes.
Katz, as women we do have to at least consider why we allow ourselves to be complicit with all this body image crap. It’s nice to feel attractive, but it’s anything but nice to obsess over it. I see it as backlash stuff.
Darlene [45]:
What’s the saying? “Live life to the full; moderation is only for monks”; …. and not a mention in that of Kilograms, Kilojoules, BMI, Size [pick-a-number] or anything like that at all.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for eating good nutritious food and for doing work or exercise that does not harm you …. but never never never for appearance sake alone - with or without clothes.