The time has come, the walrus said… Oops! I’ll start again.
The time has come to begin the the greatest contest, the longest stoush, in the greatest game of all. Well that’s the view of the 0.0000000001% of the world population that follow rugby league. Tonight we have the first State of Origin match, where the cane toads take on the cockeroaches from south of the Tweed in the opening stoush in enemy territory where the reviled Blues have won 10 out of the 12 matches played. This on one of the most unsuitable venues for the game in the country, a round field for a rectangular game, for Chrissake, and a slippery surface unsuitable for grazing cows, or anything useful really.
It’s part of the dark plot by the game’s governing body, where NSW always has the numbers, to tip the odds their way. As is the adoption of the 10 replacement rule, specifically requested by the NSW coach, as against the 12 replacement rule used in international competition, when any donkey knows that SOO is faster and more furious than any international game we are likely to play.
The Blues game plan is clear. They are going to take us on up the middle with hard running big forwards and plenty of scampering out of dummy half. This is behind the selection of Greg Bird at five-eighth, a 102kg whopper, who Warren Ryan (”The Wok”) says has little creativity and side vision. The Wok reckons that if Lockyer had played five-eighth against the Kiwis in the last game instead of Bird we would have won by a country mile instead of just comfortably.
To counter this, we’ve done three things. We’ve selected Karmichael Hunt at five-eighth even though he hasn’t played there since since schoolboy rugby at Churchie. But at 95kg he’s a lot bigger than Scott Prince. Second we’ve selected four forwards on the bench, though people are reasonably asking what P J Marsh, just back from injury and only 80kg, will contribute that Prince couldn’t. Third, we’ve indicated that our big backs will have to muck in and do some of the hard stuff to preserve the stamina of our forwards.
The biggest selection conundrum is why Scott Prince didn’t get a gig. He’s arguably the best player running around, Johnathon Thurston included. Still JT has done it for us in the past and the Qld selectors are notoriously loyal.
The biggest selection gamble of the Blues is Peter Wallace at half-back with only 28 NRL games behind him. Of course ‘Alfie’ Langer had none when he made his debut. He did OK. Still we are very grateful that Braith Anasta with his pinpoint towering bombs isn’t there.
Other than that I wouldn’t have Carl Webb in my Qld team. He’s very likely to give a penalty, drop the pill and hasn’t enough sideways movement to come up to scratch in defence.
NSW forwards possibly shade ours, but only just and our much vaunted backs only just shade NSW. It would be a bad mistake to underestimate the NSW backs.
I don’t think any players other than Wally (”The King”) Lewis and Andrew (”Joey”) Johns have ever consistently dominated SOO. Others like Laurie Daley, Brad Fittler and “Alfie” Langer have come up with important plays when the team needed it. There are multiple players there who could do that tonight.
Queensland are officially favourites (don’t let that fool you) and the pollies have come up with a new gimmick. The losing Premier will have their office polluted by an opposition jersey for a year, whereupon it will be auctioned for charity.
So let the games begin.
Even this former can toad isn’t too dumb as to put more than one “e” in cockeroaches… (par 2)
It was intentional!
Ah… Mea culpa…
Have to admit I immediately thought (and went googling - not that I wish to derail this thread so quickly) for the Washington Post’s Style Invitational:
[link]
My favourite being, “reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. (A combo of reincarnation and tarnation.)”
From the JJJ website!
I can’t be bothered to watch sport of any flavour - except when these blokes are calling the shots, then it’s magic!!
So do yourself a favour, turn on the telly, down the TV volume and up on the wireless!!
Youie, I don’t know what I had in my head. Some vague insult, I think, so as not to offend the real cockroaches.
But, yeah, can we move on?
Jeez Brian, you’re a bit hard on the Cowboys players. May I retort, sir!
The suggestion that Prince is a better player than Thurston can only be based on the first half of this season, and more especially on the last four or five games. Thurston’s got a long way to go in the game - let’s see what happens up North when the Cowboys get their second wind under a new coach. Anyway, I fearlessly predict that Thurston will cut the blues to ribbons tonight late in the game. I reckon the 10 replacement thing will come back to bite them.
I reckon they’ve done the right thing in selecting Hunt - he is bigger and tackles harder, he makes more sense if the Blues are planning to muscle through the middle. Prince may not cope in defence, and two attacking geniuses might just get in each other’s way.
Charlie Webb… well I admit that he’s been a tad… unreliable. (I am unable to report here rumours that Townsville sources have handed me about Charlie’s weekend R&R). But I really think he’s coming good - on his day he’s an intimidating, hard runner - in the games when he wakes up, he often makes 120-130 metres. I agree with you about his defence workrate, but in retrospect you could say the same about Gordy Tallis IMHO (despite his occasional big hit). They’re both similar in that they are at their best in attack - but of course Charlie is much less consistent. Let’s hope he has one of his good nights tonight.
Go Maroons!
Jason, maybe you’re right. I think JT and Lockyer took a few games to settle down and we can’t afford a learning curve with two generals like JT and Prince. Warren Boland had the idea of playing Prince at half-back, Thurston at five-eighth and Hunt on the bench, Thurston being the better ball-player. There was some logic in that. Warren thinks Prince’s kicking game is better, especially his short kicking at the end of the set.
I think back to when Ricky Stuart was sometimes preferred over Alfie Langer for Australia when Alfie was winning man-of-the-match awards. With Ricky the team seemed to play better, though partly because he had Laurie Daley outside him and no-one was going to sack Laurie for Kevvie Walters. Prince is a bit like Ricky, I think.
Hunt seems to be one of those players that everyone wants in the team.
Webb can be a match winner, but they’ll have to rest him after 15 or 20 minutes. Against that Thaiday has been playing 60 minutes and Dallas Johnson will run all night.
I notice that Roy Masters thinks it comes down to Cameron Smith vs Buderis. I think it’s stupid to base it on a single match-up, but in that case I’d back Smith, without disrespect to Buderis.
Brian - agree 100% on Smith vs. Buderis. If Masters’s call on that is right, the Maroons will get up. I also agree on Webb’s poor fitness - and I agree he’s a frustrating player at times.
Boland’s ideas are intriguing, but there again you’re asking Thurston to do a lot of hard defence. It’s not that he couldn’t, I guess, but I still reckon they’ve made a reasonable call.
The Alfie/Stuart parallels are very interesting and relevant - never thought about it that way before. The point it brings up of course is that selectors often have to make calls on combinations, not individuals. You’d think sports journos would be awake to this, but often they seem more interested in whipping up a frenzy of outrage (this goes double north of the Tweed, sad to say)
… date against date.
Peace through violence!
I suppose what I’m about to un-Australian-ly say makes me an automatic traitor, subversive, and probable “f*ggot”, but from my earliest, childhood memories of seeing my worked up father bellowing at the TV screen, I have NEVER understood why anybody could wind themselves up to care about the outcome of something like Origin. Due to my total lack of interest (let alone passion) in the outcome of repetitive, boring and pointless team sports on the television, my father regarded me as a queer, a misfit and a disappointment, which judging from the prevailing social opinions was a correct observation on his part. I simply can never and will never understand why ANYBODY would give a damn about who wins this stupid game (except perhaps the actual players and their friends), let alone be so pathetic and mentally deficient as to actually believe that “their” team’s victory is a matter of pride for themselves as “supporters”, simply residents of the same state! Do I have something missing in my brain that stops me from stupidly believing that the victory or loss of this or that team in yet another one of countless, virtually indistinguishable games? While I was in China during the 2006 world cup I was roundly “congratulated” on Australia’s victory over Japan - as if I had had anything to do with it!!! Oh, the excruciating stupidity! I can hardly bear it! Frankly, the sight of all these people walking around in maroon jerseys this afternoon fills me with contempt, pity and disgust. I will be supporting NSW, not because I give a rat’s arse (I DON’T!!) but as an act of protest against the mindless idiocy of the modern day opiate-of-the-masses surrounding me.
yeti, the sentence seems unfinished, but I’d be tempted to answer, yes, probably.
My rational brain tells me that it doesn’t matter much, as long as we beat New Zealand at everything, and the English at cricket, and the Americans at swimming and the South Africans and…
You do seem to have a lot of passion in your feelings about sport, so I’d suggest your position is far from rational. I’m quite happy to channel my emotions in favour of teams that I identify with, which are based on geography. So I’ll back the Broncos, and if they are not playing I’ll back the Titans and Cowboys.
Yes, I do feel better if all the right teams win, just a little bit, and that includes the Firebirds in netball, though I’ve lost interest in men’s basketball, which seems to be entirely corporatised.
I had no idea until today that canetoad and cockroach had any iconic connection with QLD and NSW. Still, Centrebet reckon it’s a meme worth mining: [link]
(cheap crappy flash game)
Yes, looks like the sentence is unfinished, but you get my perfectly rational drift. I am passionately rejecting irrational behavior, which includes the stupid and pointless emotions that will be on display tonight. And I am protesting the widespread expectation that I should care about the outcome, which I find totally insulting! But what riles me up is the fact that it will completely dominate the local “news” bulletins, as if it’s actually news!!
wilful, anyone following rugby league in NSW and Qld would know. I think this is probably right:
Muir was, of course, a Kangaroo half-back with 22 appearances between 1959 and 1964 before he became Queensland coach. I think the story dates from the 1970s.
Cane toads was the NSW comeback.
Each to his (or her) own, yeti.
Go Bedsy! GO Blues!
Shaun is live blogging
[link]
Yeti:
I don’t care if you don’t care. It’s fine - I don’t think any less of you. I even understand why you might react to a sometimes overbearing sporting culture. But do you have to harsh the mellow on this thread, dude?
Brian: It appears I may have been utterly wrong about Hunt.
And Thurston hasn’t exactly had a blinder.
Is there any reason for the State of Origin to even be contested anymore? It began, I recall, because the Sydney League used to cherry-pick the best players from the Brisbane league at the end of each season by paying them squillions that came largely from their new club’s poker-machine takings. Then when the Interstate Series came up, the NSW team were often largely-manned by ex-Qld players. The SoO came in to counter this effect.
But nowadays the Sydney League competition is more of an Inter-Domional league, with teams from Victoria, Qld and New Zealand taking part, so whenever the Broncos or any of the other Qld teams in the competition play against a Sydney team, it’s really a “State of Origin” match (albeit without the hype or the drunken excesses).
yaaararaaaarrrghhh noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!
Something we saw tonight has been in evidence since at least 2004, but has been masked recently by the atrocious coaching of Graham Murray.
That is, on paper the Blues have generally been stronger throughout the past 28 years. It’s a simple function of drawing from a larger population. This has always been made up for by the much greater enthusiasm of Queensland sides, so almost every stat imaginable has come out about even.
But this passion came from an overwhelming inferiority complex.
But Queensland just don’t have that chip on their shoulder anymore. Sir Joh’s regime is a distant memory, Brisbane is not a cultural wasteland and, moreover, Queensland can recognise this.
And how could anyone on earth feel inferior to Michael Costa’s NSW?
Maybe we should hope that population trends continue and Queensland becomes the bigger state whilst NSW continues to labour (heh, labor) under terrible government and other burdens so the formula of more population vs inferiority complex is reversed.
NSW had the better strategy, better execution, better coach, better luck re the ref. The ‘Game’ won.
The promoter’s dream. Funny that.
Terangeree:
This may - may - have held for a brief period in the 90s, when a lot of Qld talent was concentrated at the Broncos, but these days Origin is a mechanism for concentrating the best talent in the game. Take Qld - they have players from sydney clubs, the Warriors and the Storm as well as the Queensland-based sides. It’s too simplistic to now argue that the Qld-based sides make it irrelevant. It’s simply the best contest the code can offer - just ask the NZ and south pacific players clamouring to get selected in SoO.
Richard - not sure about the psychosocial speculation, but if you check this link, you’ll see that it’s now exactly 40 games apiece. You can’t ask for a more even competition than that. As for blaming Graham Murray… as a Cowboys fan, I’ve got incentives to argue he’s a bad coach, too, but I just don’t buy it. I think Qld have a lot of genuine talent - shame it wasn’t on form tonight
Beaten all over the park. That’s the long and short of it. If an Australian team was picked tonight you might have Billy Slater and maybe Petero Civoniceva and all the rest Blues. I think Warren Boland was right in saying they tackled us out of the game. When we got the ball near their line we were pretty clueless.
Hunt’s tackling was amazing but they took all the gas out of him. Same with Cameron Smith. Paul Vautin called Thurston’s kicking deplorable at half time. It was a bit better in the second half but I’m afraid it’s what I’ve been seeing from him lately, including in the test against the Kiwis. Prince OTOH has been superb.
The selectors will have to make changes. One they might consider is to swap Tate and Greg Inglis. I believe Tate prefers centre and it was one reason why he left the Broncos. I haven’t seen his games with the Warriors, but having big wingers is the way to go.
The ref had a good game. He got a few things wrong. Only one I’d mention. About the 14th minute NSW had a scrum not far out from their own line. They put the ball in and Qld won. The ref pulled it up and got them to put it in again. A few minutes later they got down the other end and scored.
I didn’t see what happened. I don’t think the TV showed it. But the ABC Radio guys, all NSW, reckoned when Qld won it should have been play on. It may have been a 10 point turn around. 6 all instead of 10-0. But then again Qld were not attacking well and NSW were defending superbly. So probably not.
Anyway congratulations to NSW. It wasn’t edge of the seat stuff. After things went pear-shaped in the first few minutes they always looked in control.
Good summary Brian - I stand corrected on many points, sir!
Richard, don’t blame Graham Murray. Tim Sheens was rated a super coach and he couldn’t do much with the Cowboys. I believe Murray has taken four sides from also rans to finalists. The Wok reckons that when the Cowboys and Wests-Tigers played the grand final a few years ago they changed the rules at the behest of the other coaches because they couldn’t match the fast attractive play of those two teams.
SOO is far from dead. As wpd says it’s a promoters dream and it’s all about entertainment and money. As Jason says it’s the best contest in the code. I’d say few other codes can match it.
Brian - you’re right about Murray’s abilities I think, and the rules around the tackle were definitely changed in a way that slowed things down. That finals series in 05 was an absolute cracker in terms of entertainment - shame that things have been hosed down since then.
Anyway - off to bed. Well played NSW.
Well in Perth Nien showed the game at 7-30pm Perth time,9-30 EST, I watched it at home,hoping that if enough did we might get game 2 live(for Perth)why Niens joke that passes as NEWs and the Rubbish ACA then some other stupid yank comedy could not be shifted I don,t know so it can be shown live.
NSW were to good with a few gentle assists from the ref,QLD were very Lethargic,why Prince was not playing I have no idea.
Can anyone tell me if pink or mauve are acceptable shades of maroon for SoO patriotism purposes?
WHAAA??? Richard Green, do you have to live up here with all the damn cane toads?
Just kidding, Queenslanders. Craig Fitzgibbon is a machine!!! (but a very polite one - off the field - at that)
Kim, my feeling would be no, sorry, but better than wearing blue!
Not a pretty face, but great legs!
[Well in Perth Nien showed the game at 7-30pm Perth time,9-30 EST, I watched it at home,hoping that if enough did we might get game 2 live(for Perth)why Niens joke that passes as NEWs and the Rubbish ACA then some other stupid yank comedy could not be shifted I don,t know so it can be shown live.]
Be grateful it was shown in Prime Time John, in previous years when Nein was owned by Eva Presser, the games would be delayed until after midnight, the reason being that “it didn’t rate”, when shown in Prime time.
Also, re the Triple J call, in previous years, the call would be beamed into WA live - I wonder if why it wasn’t broadcast in WA this year ?
Kim: I reckon mauve would be a perfectly acceptable substitute.
A few thoughts from the press this morning. First up the main theme is that we were simply blitzed. There was no complaining about the referee as such, although the more I think about it the more I recall 4 or 5 instances where the ABC radio guys were critical of calls against Qld and only once, a penalty given against Mason, against NSW.
The stats were surprisingly even with Qld actually making more metres and only completing one less set. But as Lockyer sais 13/23 in the second half was not going to win us the game, even if NSW was just as bad.
On the ref, Civoniceva said, and he’s probably right, that the ref allowed NSW markers to start a fraction early. This shut down Cameron Smith and dummy half running. Our guys started to go laterally one-out in response and were easy pickings.
The Wok and others keep stressing you need quality in the 9,7,6,1 corridor and it’s clear they concentrated attack and defence in that area. Even kicking directly to Billy Slater, who would normally make an NRL side look silly, but they sent the chasers down to consistently flatten him.
Apparently Hunt told the selectors 11 days before the match that the task was beyond him. What he did in the circumstances was remarkable. But as one of the commenters said, at fullback he normally does about 5 tackles a match and suddenly he has to do 40. You can only prepare for that by being match hardened. If they want to use him there in SOO2 they need to persuade Bennett to use him there at the Broncos. That’s unlikely, because Bennett said before he was selected that it was a dumb idea which would help the Blues.
Bellamy said NSW played just about the perfect game. Everything they tried went to plan and paid off. He’s right, and he’s got to be the winningest coach around, so Qld’s chances of coming back from here are not good.
Kim, thinking about pink and mauve, I appreciate that maroon is not everyone’s fashion colour. In an SOO context, like attending a match, pink and mauve would definitely signal you were not NSW. But it would be helped by a small maroon signal, like a ribbon or maybe a cap or beany. Outside an SOO context such as the office, I think you would need that definite maroon signal however small.
Hope that helps, but I’m the unlikeliest fashion consultant evah.
Jason, on Murray, the Wok points to numerous cases where a coach is sacked and then asked to coach out the season where the team then starts to fail. Classic was Hagan at Newcastle heading for Parramatta and Smith at Parramatta heading for Newcastle.
Oddly enough in the other code there are examples the other way, eg Mackenzie at the Waratahs and Nucifora at the Brumbies.
Yup.
LOL can I trun 180 degrees from yesterday?
1. You were right about Webb. He’s got to go. Pray for Steve Price to get fit.
2. The Boland plan looks alright, all of a sudden, but there are big changes in there. I think they probably have to give Prince a shot now. Could Hunt have a go in the centres?
I think they need Lockyer and Price back. They were rudderless last night.
May only be followed by a small % of the world population, but that just goes to show the intelligent ones that are not lemmings.
Good to see the blues triumph and didn’t fall for all the more niggle than usual in the tackles that QLD used to try and invite a stoush. It was a flattering scoreline for QLD, the Blues need to find a new kicker I think and Wallace played surprisingly well.
Vee, you were going on last year about Qld niggles in tackles. Honestly from where I sit it looks the other way round.
Jason, Price might be back but Lockyer is a long shot. If he plays in Origin2 it will be without a match back in the NRL which is not good.
I doubt whether you could justify Hunt in the back line instead of Folau, Inglis Hodges and Tate. Slater has got to stay. I’d maybe have him on the bench as per Boland.
I’ve got some sympathy for JT. He needs the forwards going forward better if he’s going to show his stuff. Myles said the Blues won the wrestling on the ground and he’s probably right.
Des Morris, chairman of selectors said that Prince is not necessarily the answer. Bennett, who’s coached Prince, said he is an extreme team player and will fit in wherever he’s wanted, but the selectors seem to have another idea.
Hi again Brian
I take your point about Lockyer, and about Thurston not having the forwards helping him, but the thing I’ve noticed in watching Cowboys games is that JT has an unfortunate tendency to be a very very good player when things are going his way, and a little bit silly under pressure. That will change as he matures, but the big thing Lockyer brings is experience and a cool head.
We’ll see what team selection brings. It might be good if they avoid the temptation to panic.
By the way - thanks for the thread!
My pleasure, Jason.
I’ve been thinking about Greg Inglis at centre. I don’t recall him playing there before. He’s played full-back, wing and five-eighth, where he plays now at the Storm. Apparently he was meant to be marking Mark Gasnier. Defending at centre and on the wing is not the same. Why not play him at five-eighth?
It’s a priority to get that right and more important than what we do with Hunt.
I just wanted to add some important statistics that appeared in the weekend press, before we run into the countdown to Origin 2.
First up, Carl Webb made 12 tackles and gained 56 metres from seven runs. I’m not sure how many minutes he played, but I saw him on the bench inside the 20 minute mark and he didn’t return until the 66th minute. If he’s retained he has to start on the bench and then try to bust the defense when they are tired. But I don’t think he’s got enough running in him to keep up with the pace. They say Steve Price did OK in his return on the weekend. Or else there is Anthony Kaufusi and others, I’m sure. I believe Brad Myers is playing well for the Titans. He played four internationals in 2001.
Secondly, there is Karmichael Hunt’s defence. He made some of the biggest hits all night and generally got wraps. He made 15 tackles but missed 10! Ouch! BTW Slater seemed to have a frustrating night but he made 243m from 20 runs, more than anyone else on the park.
Finally, some interesting stats about Scott Prince. He’s played 186 NRL games, 112 at half-back, which he only really took up when Bennett shoved him there when he was desperate for someone to replace Langer.
He’s played 43 times at five-eihth, three at fullback, once at lock and 27 times off the bench.
Just pick him!