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	<title>Comments on: Brough to can Pineapple Party?</title>
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		<title>By: Paul Nash</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-474690</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Nash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-474690</guid>
		<description>I think its unfair that Clive Palmer who as a very young man fell foul of the Liberal Party in the 1970&#039;s.(remember Mike Kaiser now working high up with Anna Bligh)  It seems to me that after he joined the right party the Nationals he went from strength to strength.  Today he is Queenslands richest man and he wants to use that position to finally stop the squabbles on the conservative side by helping push the need for one single conservative party the Liberal National Party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its unfair that Clive Palmer who as a very young man fell foul of the Liberal Party in the 1970&#8217;s.(remember Mike Kaiser now working high up with Anna Bligh)  It seems to me that after he joined the right party the Nationals he went from strength to strength.  Today he is Queenslands richest man and he wants to use that position to finally stop the squabbles on the conservative side by helping push the need for one single conservative party the Liberal National Party.</p>
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		<title>By: Antonio</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-474421</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-474421</guid>
		<description>It seems pretty clear to me that the new proposed constitution will completely disempower ordinary rank-and-file members. Branches won&#039;t really matter, the state council has no power and the president has more power to appoint flunkies than Musharraf did! The system of &quot;regions&quot; is good old fashioned gerrymandering of the most obvious kind. On this I completely agree with the concerns raised on Ambit Gambit:

http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/003125.html

The other major area of concern for urban Liberals will be the numerical strength of the National party. For many years the National party has maintained good links with the CWA, NFF and other community associations to the extent that I honestly believe that they DO have a larger membership than the QLD Libs. The extent to which this membership is active is somewhat debatable.

Most urban Liberals that I know would prefer a constitution based on &quot;one person, one vote&quot;. It doesn&#039;t seem to me that this principle or concerns about accommodating the sheer size of the Nationals membership have been adequately accounted for. 

Equally, I have heard from the Nationals side that there is disquiet about the proposed constitution particularly in terms of its effect in disempowering local members in decision making processes. This is a constitution done on the run by power brokers out of touch with their respective broader membership. The election of Brough will put the handbrake on this &quot;shepharding&quot; of members. 

I don&#039;t think it is the deathknell for a merger but it will lead to a lot more analysis of the propososed constitution and some hardball playing for the Liberal side. The wildcard in all this is the &quot;ballot&quot; already sent to party members last week BEFORE the convention. How the results of this ballot will be spun is anyone&#039;s guess - but I think it might be the first bushfire that Brough has to put out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems pretty clear to me that the new proposed constitution will completely disempower ordinary rank-and-file members. Branches won&#8217;t really matter, the state council has no power and the president has more power to appoint flunkies than Musharraf did! The system of &#8220;regions&#8221; is good old fashioned gerrymandering of the most obvious kind. On this I completely agree with the concerns raised on Ambit Gambit:</p>
<p><a href="http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/003125.html" rel="nofollow">http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/003125.html</a></p>
<p>The other major area of concern for urban Liberals will be the numerical strength of the National party. For many years the National party has maintained good links with the CWA, NFF and other community associations to the extent that I honestly believe that they DO have a larger membership than the QLD Libs. The extent to which this membership is active is somewhat debatable.</p>
<p>Most urban Liberals that I know would prefer a constitution based on &#8220;one person, one vote&#8221;. It doesn&#8217;t seem to me that this principle or concerns about accommodating the sheer size of the Nationals membership have been adequately accounted for. </p>
<p>Equally, I have heard from the Nationals side that there is disquiet about the proposed constitution particularly in terms of its effect in disempowering local members in decision making processes. This is a constitution done on the run by power brokers out of touch with their respective broader membership. The election of Brough will put the handbrake on this &#8220;shepharding&#8221; of members. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is the deathknell for a merger but it will lead to a lot more analysis of the propososed constitution and some hardball playing for the Liberal side. The wildcard in all this is the &#8220;ballot&#8221; already sent to party members last week BEFORE the convention. How the results of this ballot will be spun is anyone&#8217;s guess &#8211; but I think it might be the first bushfire that Brough has to put out.</p>
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		<title>By: wpd</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473950</link>
		<dc:creator>wpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473950</guid>
		<description>Steve, thanks for that.  Very informative.

You might be interested to know that Clive has promised $100 million to help the Aborigines in WA but to the best of my knowledge, not one red cent has actually been placed on the table.

Promises, promises, ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, thanks for that.  Very informative.</p>
<p>You might be interested to know that Clive has promised $100 million to help the Aborigines in WA but to the best of my knowledge, not one red cent has actually been placed on the table.</p>
<p>Promises, promises, &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Clifford</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473921</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473921</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, Mark.  I don&#039;t see Brough&#039;s appeal but if the rank and file think it&#039;s a good idea to have him at the helm, so be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Mark.  I don&#8217;t see Brough&#8217;s appeal but if the rank and file think it&#8217;s a good idea to have him at the helm, so be it.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473894</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 07:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473894</guid>
		<description>Brough to put the brakes on Pineapple Party. I do believe that it would have been best for the Liberals who support the merger had Spence been elected President and the move made quickly.  The slower the process takes the less chance of a successful outcome.  for those with doubts about the merger this result would be ideal.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/merger-delays-weeks-not-months-brough/2008/06/01/1212258631738.html

This from Hansard 30/04/08 explains why Palmer was turfed out by the liberal Party.


Mr MICKEL: In 1975 he was a member of the Liberal Party, but in that year he decided that he
wanted a cowboy outfit for Christmas so he bought the National Party. Why was he drummed out of the
Liberal Party? It was for alleged electoral irregularities in the movement’s 1975 presidential election.
The businessman who has bought the National Party was drummed out of the Liberal Party because he
was a vote rorter.
Opposition members interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! While I really do not want to throw anyone out of the chamber this morning,
some members are acting as if they very much want to be. I call the minister.
Mr MICKEL: Not only was he a vote rorter; he could not tell the truth because what he said to the
papers was, ‘How could they expel me when I had already resigned?’ What did the minutes show? The
minutes showed acceptance of his resignation as grants development chairman but not acceptance of
his resignation from the Liberal Party. How do we know that? The Liberal Party minutes of 29 August
1975 show exactly that.
The other thing is that he says he was drummed out. They were concerned about the validity of
Sunshine Coast delegates to council. Why? Because the Sunshine Coast branch had been closed. In
other words, he put delegates in there from a closed branch. It gets better. Those from the Sunshine
Coast branch were falsely made out as to addresses and were invalid because no money was received.
In other words, what we have got is a perpetual vote rorter now running the National Party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brough to put the brakes on Pineapple Party. I do believe that it would have been best for the Liberals who support the merger had Spence been elected President and the move made quickly.  The slower the process takes the less chance of a successful outcome.  for those with doubts about the merger this result would be ideal.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/merger-delays-weeks-not-months-brough/2008/06/01/1212258631738.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/merger-delays-weeks-not-months-brough/2008/06/01/1212258631738.html</a></p>
<p>This from Hansard 30/04/08 explains why Palmer was turfed out by the liberal Party.</p>
<p>Mr MICKEL: In 1975 he was a member of the Liberal Party, but in that year he decided that he<br />
wanted a cowboy outfit for Christmas so he bought the National Party. Why was he drummed out of the<br />
Liberal Party? It was for alleged electoral irregularities in the movement’s 1975 presidential election.<br />
The businessman who has bought the National Party was drummed out of the Liberal Party because he<br />
was a vote rorter.<br />
Opposition members interjected.<br />
Mr SPEAKER: Order! While I really do not want to throw anyone out of the chamber this morning,<br />
some members are acting as if they very much want to be. I call the minister.<br />
Mr MICKEL: Not only was he a vote rorter; he could not tell the truth because what he said to the<br />
papers was, ‘How could they expel me when I had already resigned?’ What did the minutes show? The<br />
minutes showed acceptance of his resignation as grants development chairman but not acceptance of<br />
his resignation from the Liberal Party. How do we know that? The Liberal Party minutes of 29 August<br />
1975 show exactly that.<br />
The other thing is that he says he was drummed out. They were concerned about the validity of<br />
Sunshine Coast delegates to council. Why? Because the Sunshine Coast branch had been closed. In<br />
other words, he put delegates in there from a closed branch. It gets better. Those from the Sunshine<br />
Coast branch were falsely made out as to addresses and were invalid because no money was received.<br />
In other words, what we have got is a perpetual vote rorter now running the National Party.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473824</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473824</guid>
		<description>Sam Clifford&#039;s take:

http://publicpolity.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/brough-in-charge/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam Clifford&#8217;s take:</p>
<p><a href="http://publicpolity.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/brough-in-charge/" rel="nofollow">http://publicpolity.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/brough-in-charge/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473823</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473823</guid>
		<description>Graham, I said his election was an expression of unease with the Pineapple Party, not that he is opposed to some form of amalgamation. No doubt the factors you point to also contributed to his win.

The question mark relates to the likelihood that whatever emerges from the process now won&#039;t be the Borg&#039;s desired model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham, I said his election was an expression of unease with the Pineapple Party, not that he is opposed to some form of amalgamation. No doubt the factors you point to also contributed to his win.</p>
<p>The question mark relates to the likelihood that whatever emerges from the process now won&#8217;t be the Borg&#8217;s desired model.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Young</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473807</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473807</guid>
		<description>Mark, I think it is a complete misreading to see Brough&#039;s election as a vote against the pineapple party. Certainly his key allies are opposed, but I don&#039;t think he is. I think the vote represented as much disgust at the way the Santoro forces have been running the party. Geoff Greene is detested. You can&#039;t send out debt collectors to former candidates without upsetting a lot of people, apart from the fact he&#039;s completely incompetent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, I think it is a complete misreading to see Brough&#8217;s election as a vote against the pineapple party. Certainly his key allies are opposed, but I don&#8217;t think he is. I think the vote represented as much disgust at the way the Santoro forces have been running the party. Geoff Greene is detested. You can&#8217;t send out debt collectors to former candidates without upsetting a lot of people, apart from the fact he&#8217;s completely incompetent.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473748</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 19:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473748</guid>
		<description>WPD I have to run and go to work now but will be back later to give the full account of the Cooroy debacle but also bear in mind that neither the Nationals or Liberals have chose to be open another to conduct their ballots through the Electoral Commission of Queensland as one would expect with a major vote of this importance.  I personally think the CMC should review the National Party rolls and report to the Queensland public on the state of the rolls.

I find it amazing that both these parties who opposed an open, transparent and successful council amalgamation last year on a huge scale are showing us their own inability to amalgamate just two entities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WPD I have to run and go to work now but will be back later to give the full account of the Cooroy debacle but also bear in mind that neither the Nationals or Liberals have chose to be open another to conduct their ballots through the Electoral Commission of Queensland as one would expect with a major vote of this importance.  I personally think the CMC should review the National Party rolls and report to the Queensland public on the state of the rolls.</p>
<p>I find it amazing that both these parties who opposed an open, transparent and successful council amalgamation last year on a huge scale are showing us their own inability to amalgamate just two entities.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473744</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 19:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473744</guid>
		<description>&quot;BTW can anyone explain how Clive Palmer fits into this jigsaw?&quot;

Clive Palmer was kicked out of the Liberals in Queensland for turning up to a State Council meeting in the 1970&#039;s with votes of delagates from the Cooroy branch of the Libs which no longer existed.  

In 2008 he offered a couple of helicopter rides and use of a hundred seat DC9 aircraft to members of the shadow opposition in Queensland and they were so impressed the alleged 10 000 members consisting mainly of stud Bulls, stud rams, race horses and the odd goat sold the National Party to him.

Under some form of pyramid selling apparently their sometime sparing partners the Queensland Liberals learned that there was plenty of money to to had for running the next state election if they switch sides and allowed themselves to be taken over by the National Party.

Then there was another back flip by the Libs in voting yesterday which will delay the whole process...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;BTW can anyone explain how Clive Palmer fits into this jigsaw?&#8221;</p>
<p>Clive Palmer was kicked out of the Liberals in Queensland for turning up to a State Council meeting in the 1970&#8217;s with votes of delagates from the Cooroy branch of the Libs which no longer existed.  </p>
<p>In 2008 he offered a couple of helicopter rides and use of a hundred seat DC9 aircraft to members of the shadow opposition in Queensland and they were so impressed the alleged 10 000 members consisting mainly of stud Bulls, stud rams, race horses and the odd goat sold the National Party to him.</p>
<p>Under some form of pyramid selling apparently their sometime sparing partners the Queensland Liberals learned that there was plenty of money to to had for running the next state election if they switch sides and allowed themselves to be taken over by the National Party.</p>
<p>Then there was another back flip by the Libs in voting yesterday which will delay the whole process&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473728</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473728</guid>
		<description>Mark:

Given the harm both parties have done me over the years, I have no love for either Nationals or Liberals .... however, if we are going to continue having a bipartisan parliament [not yet proven to be an especially good thing] then the Liberals need to change from being a cagefull of rich destructive brawling monkeys .... and the Nationals need do something more, anything at all, than just wait around for another Peter Beattie and another issue like council amalgamations to rescue then from well-earned oblivion. 

The Pineapple Party might be the way to go .... on the good old Aussie principle of give it a burl mate, suck it and see, put a quid on it sport, etc.    What do we have to lose?   If nothing else, the Pineapple Party would brighten up the pages of Queensland political history - however long the new party lasts.

If it doesn&#039;t work then the survivors might care to join the Australian Democrats or The Greens or the Australian Labor Party .... which then begs the question of why they didn&#039;t do that in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>Given the harm both parties have done me over the years, I have no love for either Nationals or Liberals &#8230;. however, if we are going to continue having a bipartisan parliament [not yet proven to be an especially good thing] then the Liberals need to change from being a cagefull of rich destructive brawling monkeys &#8230;. and the Nationals need do something more, anything at all, than just wait around for another Peter Beattie and another issue like council amalgamations to rescue then from well-earned oblivion. </p>
<p>The Pineapple Party might be the way to go &#8230;. on the good old Aussie principle of give it a burl mate, suck it and see, put a quid on it sport, etc.    What do we have to lose?   If nothing else, the Pineapple Party would brighten up the pages of Queensland political history &#8211; however long the new party lasts.</p>
<p>If it doesn&#8217;t work then the survivors might care to join the Australian Democrats or The Greens or the Australian Labor Party &#8230;. which then begs the question of why they didn&#8217;t do that in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473671</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473671</guid>
		<description>Its certainly a blow to the Borg. But he still has the numbers in Queensland and if voting went on pure party lines, Brough would be down on the pineapple scales. 

And Anna will comfortably beat either of the ananas in pyjamas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its certainly a blow to the Borg. But he still has the numbers in Queensland and if voting went on pure party lines, Brough would be down on the pineapple scales. </p>
<p>And Anna will comfortably beat either of the ananas in pyjamas.</p>
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		<title>By: wpd</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473670</link>
		<dc:creator>wpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473670</guid>
		<description>&quot;But the Borg should be worried…&quot;

Certainly.  Back to square one.  Another false dawn.

BTW can anyone explain how Clive Palmer fits into this jigsaw?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But the Borg should be worried…&#8221;</p>
<p>Certainly.  Back to square one.  Another false dawn.</p>
<p>BTW can anyone explain how Clive Palmer fits into this jigsaw?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473666</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 10:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473666</guid>
		<description>Yep, a Mal shaped Pineapple would lead to a confrontation between two &quot;new faces of Queensland&quot; - both electoral flops of course. But the Borg should be worried...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, a Mal shaped Pineapple would lead to a confrontation between two &#8220;new faces of Queensland&#8221; &#8211; both electoral flops of course. But the Borg should be worried&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473662</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 10:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473662</guid>
		<description>&quot;I always wanted to do that&quot; (Brough, today.)

Our Mal is only partial to pineapple on his terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I always wanted to do that&#8221; (Brough, today.)</p>
<p>Our Mal is only partial to pineapple on his terms.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/comment-page-1/#comment-473646</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 09:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/31/brough-to-can-pineapple-party/#comment-473646</guid>
		<description>I am surprised that Brough has won so convincingly. There are huge obstacles for the liberals to overcome but Santo Santoro must be amazed that his factional friend was so easily beaten. The Liberals have still not made any mention of how tree clearing, gun laws, purified recycled water, and daylight saving will be handled in a policy sense if the Palmer franchise did go ahead but one would assume that the election of Brough would make it more difficult for agreement to be reached.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised that Brough has won so convincingly. There are huge obstacles for the liberals to overcome but Santo Santoro must be amazed that his factional friend was so easily beaten. The Liberals have still not made any mention of how tree clearing, gun laws, purified recycled water, and daylight saving will be handled in a policy sense if the Palmer franchise did go ahead but one would assume that the election of Brough would make it more difficult for agreement to be reached.</p>
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