Saturday Salon

An open thread, where at your weekend leisure, you can discuss anything you like.

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47 Responses to “Saturday Salon”


  1. 1 THRNo Gravatar

    Can I just say, I’m yet to see a Saturday Salon sober. In fact, I’m so horrified by my own drunken antics, that I don’t read this post for a week or two after its happened.

  2. 2 mickNo Gravatar

    2nd!

  3. 3 Graham BellNo Gravatar

    THR [1]:
    :D
    Everyone:

    My apologies to anyone offended by my use of a colourful Aussie slang expression on L.P. in the last few days.

  4. 4 naskingNo Gravatar

    So Caltex is a-ok w/ FuelWatch eh? And in the process the Black Hole media gets to flame Rudd. Well, if you know anything about this massive oil company & its connections I think we can safely say there’s more than a bit of Machiavellianism going on here.

    Isn’t this the same company that said:

    Petrol ‘will go to $3 a litre’

    IT is a petrol company’s dream and every motorist’s worst nightmare - fuel prices soaring to more than $3 a litre.

    As ridiculous and outrageous as it may seem, the country’s biggest petrol company says it will happen, and believes Australians should think themselves lucky they aren’t already paying more to fill up their tank.

    The cover of the latest issue of Caltex’s magazine The Star features a cover predicting some time in the next decade when prices are 334.9c per litre.

    … Mr King believes prices will soar over the next few years as crude oil supplies dwindle and governments introduce charges to combat climate change.

    The cheapest petrol in Sydney yesterday - the cheapest day of the week - was 128.9c per litre at the United in Kogarah Bay.

    Caltex believes higher crude oil costs, global refining capacity shortages, higher fuel quality standards and the introduction of carbon costs by the Government to address climate change will lead to further rises.

    (Justin Lloyd, Daily Telegraph - Australia…Published on 5 Mar 2008 by Energy Bulletin. Archived on 5 Mar 2008, Caltex Australia’s unpleasant truth about gas prices)

    Seems to me we best get onto building more public transport & bikeways & walkways if that’s the case.

    I thought this an interesting comment:

    “Cheeky” Caltex Calls For Carbon Tax On Drivers - Not Refiners

    One story from last week that I missed while I was on holiday was local refiner Caltex Australia calling for a carbon tax to be introduced.

    While I think carbon taxes are a great idea, it appears Caltex were more interested in shielding themselves from the cost of carbon trading schemes than in good policy. Caltex’s preferred policy option is for refiners to be exempt from any future carbon trading market - with drivers instead paying a direct carbon tax on petrol.

    The claimed benefit of this policy is that it would shield refiners from “unacceptable” levels of risk - with the Caltex spokesman further recommending that the tax on petrol be “clearly identifiable at the fuel pump”, as this would be “more effective at changing driver behaviour” compared to the costs of carbon trading which would have “much less carbon price visibility” and that this “hidden” tax would be “far less environmentally effective”.

    Just in case your head isn’t spinning yet with all this balderdash, the spokesman went on further to whinge that under an emissions trading scheme exposed them to a risk that “middlemen”, such as “financial institutions and offshore speculators” would become involved in the market and push carbon prices higher. Who knew that the oil industry was openly afraid of markets. What next - calls for the government to regulate the price of petrol ?

    John Connor of the Climate Institute said that this proposal would set a dangerous precedent, and that other groups would also demand exclusions. The RACV dubbed the idea “very cheeky”, further noting “It is far too early for Caltex to be calling for this burden to be put on motorists when we are already struggling with record high petrol prices, in a country that is devoid of an alternative fuel policy”.

    Posted by Big Gav on Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 8:47 AM (Peak Energy blogspot)

    )

  5. 5 naskingNo Gravatar

    Remember this Media Watch episode?:

    http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2172039.htm

    (Mileage Misinformation)

  6. 6 naskingNo Gravatar

    You might find this interesting too:

    Chevron Corporation (formerly ChevronTexaco) is based in San Ramon, California and is the second largest U.S. oil company (behind Exxon Mobil). It expanded dramatically in 2001 with the acquisition of Texaco. In 2005, Chevron acquired Unocal. Chevron has interests in chemicals, pipelines, and power production businesses. It owns or has stakes in over 25,000 gas stations which operate under the brands Chevron, Texaco, and Caltex. In 2006, sales were $210 billion with profits of $17.1 billion

    Political contributions and lobbying
    The Chevron political action committee (PAC) gave $403,350 to federal candidates in the 05/06 election cycle - 15% to Democrats, 85% to Republicans.

    The company spent $7,480,000 for lobbying in 2006. Of this total, $1,174,000 was to outside lobbying firms. Chevron has in-house lobbyists also.

    GW Bush ties to Chevron lobbyist
    In July 2005 the Washington Post reported that Wayne L. Berman, “a principal lobbyist for Chevron, is a Bush ‘Ranger,’ having raised at least $200,000 for the president’s campaign. His wife, Lea, is the White House social secretary.”

    Spin on Wikipedia
    On June 22, 2006, a computer at ChevronTexaco deleted the entire article on “Biodiesel” on Wikipedia. The edit was made anonymously but was picked up by the WikiScanner tool

    (Sourcewatch)
    ————————-

    The long & winding road.

  7. 7 Tyro RexNo Gravatar

    I just would like to point out that the Murdoch media - perhaps emboldened by L’Affair Henson - are still waging the Kultcha Warz … http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23779625-3102,00.html

    TAXPAYERS forked out up to $2000 to help send a University of Queensland lecturer to a US conference on the mafia TV series The Sopranos.

    UQ associate professor of cultural studies Jason Jacobs spent last weekend at New York’s Fordham University attending the Sopranos Symposium, dissecting the hit TV show, which ran from 1999-2007, episode by episode.

    OH NOES!!! Onlie them litturaytoores ritten by Shakespeer iz worfy off da stoody bye de intellektjools. Not teh TEEVEE i spedn sixx hours day wathcin’. Iz can’t be smart people payed by TAXPAYER?!

  8. 8 murph thew surfNo Gravatar

    Nasking , the idea of carbon taxes being applied at point of sale isn’t only being proposed for fuel.
    Proposals to do the same thing with regard to agricultural products ie food and fibres are being considered by the government in it’s discussions with the primary industry groups.
    It is considered the most direct method to convey to consumers the costs of the emissions associated with their chosen purchases.
    Additionally it may have the greatest ability to modify consumer behaviour and through this effect alter, by shifting demand, consumption away from those products with the highest carbon costs to the environment.
    Reducing fuel consumption will directly impact the oil majors and hopefully nudge them into seeking alternative lower carbon output products to market.

  9. 9 David RubieNo Gravatar

    murph the surf wrote:

    Additionally it may have the greatest ability to modify consumer behaviour

    IN that case, they better make them work like a GST instead of a stamp duty/sales tax. i.e. allow intermediate consumers to rebate back their carbon tax as an input, otherwise it will just spiral out of control as manufactured goods pass through middle men. However, I also think that carbon taxing petrol is so politically toxic that nobody will have the guts to do it. Consumers might be scared of global warming, but not scared enough to quit filling up/heating their homes or replacing older TV’s with worse alternatives. The death beasts of the right wing were actually right on that score.

  10. 10 murph the surfNo Gravatar
  11. 11 Paul BurnsNo Gravatar

    Over the past few days I’ve been readin Tim Blanning’s The Pursuit of Glory: Europe 1648-1815. I reckon its one of the best social/cultural histories of the long 18th Century I’ve read. (which actually starts about 1660, I think.) Just sayin’, if anyone’s looking for a good history book to read.

  12. 12 ClassifiedNo Gravatar

    After careful consideration, I am sure of this…

    The key to sorting out almost any situation or problem the average person might face in life, has been addressed somewhere within the episodes of Family Guy, Simpson’s or South Park

  13. 13 Graham BellNo Gravatar

    Paul Burns [11]:

    Thanks Paul; afraid that will have to go onto my 2009 reading list.

    Amazing what a vacuum exists in ordinary Australians’ perceptions of history - of that period between the age of Shakespeare and Queen Elizabeth I and the age of Washington and Napoleon. It’s a world without the Thirty Years War, without the overthrow of the Ming by the Qing, without the Glorious Revolution, without the Siege Of Vienna, without The Enlightenment ….

  14. 14 AntonioNo Gravatar

    Brough just smashed it in as Queensland Liberal Prez 380 to 169 votes. That is an unprecedented hammering of Santo. Interesting times ahead for the Pineapple Party now!
    You read it first on LP!

  15. 15 MarkNo Gravatar

    That’s interesting, Antonio! So what future for the Pineapple Party now in your opinions?

  16. 16 MarkNo Gravatar

    Tyro at 7, Terry Flew rebuts the Courier-Mail:

    http://terryflew.blogspot.com/2008/05/tenth-rate-estate.html

  17. 17 rfNo Gravatar

    Interested to hear the views of others on the $10 billion plan to build an artificial island/marina off Fremantle
    Apparently it will enhance access to the ocean, take the pressure off the high end housing market and be carbon neutral. Not much chop if you currently have an ocean view though.

  18. 18 alisterNo Gravatar

    Having been to Houston several times, Michael Duffy is insane.

  19. 19 Tyro RexNo Gravatar

    Mark, thanks for the link @ 16.

    Graham Bell @ 13 … yes apparently the 17th century doesn’t exist! My mind is however too bogged down in the first century - BC and AD - to really read a lot other than at a basic level about early modern European history … “I hope my passion for Rome’s past has not impaired my judgement” to quote Titus Livius. I did read over last summer the three ‘Baroque Cycle’ novels by Neal Stephenson which are set in that period and very interesting. The civil war, commonwealth, restoration and finally the Glorious Revolution is one of the most interesting and dynamic periods in British history if you ask me (excluding the first and second centuries of course!)

  20. 20 FDBNo Gravatar

    PLUG ALERT:

    Attention anyone in Canberra:

    If you’re free tonight and like original folky/county/rock, come see my band play at the Pot Belly Bar in Belconnen.

    Band: The Holy Sea, supporting The Haunted Attics
    Time: 9-midnight
    Cover: $5

    No music-hating peadophilia-promoters next door as far as I know, so should be nice and loud. ;)

  21. 21 Sir Henry CasingbrokeNo Gravatar

    Anne Applebaum reviews Nicholson Baker’s Human Smoke at http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id=0afcee53-5860-48b8-9065-bd7ac4945254 at therein gives blogging a bit of a serve:

    “Yet the dull truth is that we arrived at the topic of Nicholson Baker not because we were talking about the war, but because we were talking about the contemporary cult of the non-expert, or rather the anti-expert: the bloggers who assume that the “mainstream media” is always wrong, the Wikipedia readers who think that a compilation of random anecdotes is always preferable to a learned study, and of course the college students who nowadays prefer to get their news in emails from friends because it is too bothersome to read a newspaper.”

  22. 22 LauraNo Gravatar

    I think it’s a serve directed at some bloggers, not all. I agree with her that the book is fatally flawed. I was hugely disappointed in it. There is a very good discussion of the book and that review on this blog: http://benandalice.com/2008/05/tyranny-of-discrete.html

  23. 23 naskingNo Gravatar

    “Amazing what a vacuum exists in ordinary Australians’ perceptions of history”

    Including our own. Graham Bell, I’d be interested in reading your opinion of the following:

    Apparently upon spending 4 days at Anzac Cove or thereabouts during the Gallipoli campaign Keith Murdoch was to deliver a letter by British war correspondent Ellis Ashmead-Bartlett to PM Asquith, but circumstances led to him having to reproduce the gist of the letter by his own hand & adding his own views based to a degree on what he’d witnessed at Gallipoli. The intended recipient of the letter was changed to Aussie PM Andrew Fisher:

    The conceit and self complacency of the red feather men are equalled only by their incapacity. Along the line of communications, especially at Moudros, are countless high officers and conceited young cubs who are plainly only playing at war. What can you expect of men who have never worked seriously, who have lived for their appearance and for social distinction and self satisfaction, and who are now called on to conduct a gigantic war? Kitchener has a terrible task in getting pure work out of these men, whose motives can never be pure, for they are unchangeably selfish…appointments to the general staff are made from motives of friendship and social influence. Australians now loathe and detest any Englishman wearing red.’

    As Phillip Knightley saw it in 1975s The First Casualty:

    “…the presentation had strong journalistic overtones, with the data marshalled in a brisk and attractive way. It was an amazing document, a mixture of error, fact, exaggeration, prejudice, and the most sentimental patriotism, which made highly damaging charges against the British general staff and Hamilton, many of them untrue. But the basis of the charges – that the Gallipoli expedition was in danger of disaster – was correct, and Murdoch’s action, questionable though it may have been, had resounding consequences.”

    An effective shot in a media campaign that seems to have led to the forced retirement of Hamilton from active duty, decided as the Dardanelles Committee on October 14, 1915…the evacuation began less than a month later.

    It is said however that Murdoch & Bean later conspired to bring down Lieutenant General John Monash…Billy Hughes did some foot work & things turned out to be somewhat different than the picture Murdoch…& official war correspondent Bean…were painting.

    Monash had a different perspective on fighting than some of his peers:

    “The true role of infantry is not to expend itself upon heroic physical effort, not to wither away under merciless machine-gun fire, not to impale itself on hostile bayonets, but on the contrary, to advance under the maximum possible protection of the maximum possible array of mechanical resources, in the form of guns, machine-guns, tanks, mortars and aeroplanes; to advance with as little impediment as possible; to be relieved as far as possible of the obligation to fight their way forward.”

    It seems the further up the ladder he got the more he could thoroughly plan manoeuvers & coordinate the use of various technologies offered up by the military which led to more success…& a gradual shift away from the Aussie infantry being used as “cannon fodder”. He took a wider view of how to conduct warfare, tried to ensure utmost protection of troops under his command, effectively used evacuation methods and the “peaceful penetration” strategy.

    “The outstanding General Erwin Rommel also paid homage to the tactics of August 8, 1918. How did Monash’s tactics differ from those of his fellow generals?
    First, Monash was a generation, even 50 years ahead of his peers in the comprehension of warfare based on technology. The keys were his hungry, adaptable intellect and background as a building engineer. The principles behind winning a battle to him were the same as constructing a bridge or winning a court case. Planning and the deployment of resources were fundamental to successful outcomes. Proof of his methods was obvious. Every bridge built with him as the key engineer, stayed up. Every court battle he was in as a lawyer, he won. Every military battle he planned, he won. Second, Monash was the first major battle commander in history to make the protection of his soldiers a matter of policy.”

    (In the trenches with Monash, Herald Sun, February 15, 2007)

    I’m wondering if this fits into your ideas Graham that you espoused on another LP thread? Can’t see that thread on here anymore. Found it interesting.

    Don’t worry about questioning any of the above…I’ve only just started looking into this area a bit deeper. I know I’ve come late to it.

    My English Grandfather was mustard gassed in WW1 (not sure if this caused his later problems) & he spent his entire life trying to overcome the palsy-like (trembling hands) disability he was burdened with apparently stemming from that so called Great War…I wonder if the shaking was an effect of explosions/shell shock/trauma etc. He must have been near Ypres.

    So my interest has been peaked by this latest news regarding the poor Diggers buried in a mass grave at Fromelles, France. So many sad, tragic events. And too often I hear my Aussie compatriots rage against Poms regarding WW1…but how I see it, the exploited & victims of unnecessary wars come from all cultures & sectors of society…and too often but a FEW & their companies benefit.

    It’s the finger-pointers & painters of pictures that need to be scrutinised…sometimes they get it right, sometimes wrong or shades of truth (often their youth & lack of independence & knowledge can lead to problems w/ their reporting…& of course bias…& censorship by gatekeepers of all types)…& the antecedents/determinants & processes of War MUST be examined thoroughly…& the population be given access to alternative histories & POVS…& evidence gathered during digs & empirical study. Including by way of the media & educators.

    And obviously we need commanders that move beyond archaic views of warfare…but learn from the past whilst using the technology at their disposal. And ensuring further innovation alongside peacekeeping & diplomatic processes from other quarters. I wonder how Petraeus & Rumsfeld fare here? I think Nabakov is spot on regarding the need for more Navy ships & strategic use of.

  24. 24 j_p_zNo Gravatar

    Laura & Sir Henry C. (btw, good to see you around again!) — thanks for the links re the Nicholson Baker book. They made for some very interesting reading.

    I’m sorry, but I’m actually still spitting coffee through my nose here… so like, Nicholson Baker, wrote a book about… World War II?!? What? *That* Nicholson Baker?! *That* Second World War?! wtf??

    Applebaum’s review is interesting and I’m sure mostly spot-on (somehow I don’t think I’ll be actually reading this here particular book of his), but some of her ideas about blogging and the media strike me as parochial and wrong-headed, when they aren’t just plain wrong. I think she’s missing the forest for the (dead) trees here.

    Applebaum: “Who needs The New York Times or The Washington Post if you can get your news from Google and your opinions from the latest, hottest, angriest blog?”

    This, for instance, ignores the very real possibility that the NYT and the WaPo have themselves become little more than great big angry, crazy blogs.

    Applebaum: “the… equivalent of the smug bloggers who think that because the mainstream media is sometimes wrong, they are always right…”

    Well, the use of “sometimes” here indicates a bias about as negligible as the Grand Canyon. And “wrong” is being, um, generous. George Soros-level generous, if ya ask me. I’d use a few different words that I think have more accuracy.

    The blog commentary on the review was also v. interesting, the discussion of the historian’s possible constructed relations (or not) between facts and arguments was interesting, and actually related to something I had meant to ask about around here, in another context entirely… also, for reasons too arcane to unravel, it sorta put me in mind of some of John Searle’s thoughts about the problems with computer programming as a model of consciousness.

    But, hey, the birds are singing outside the window around here, so now, think I’m-a gonna shut up. Enjoy your evenings, all!

  25. 25 tigtogNo Gravatar

    A gremlin appears to be loose in Brunswick Heads, where my webhosting’s servers live, so my blog is down. What will I do with my day now?

  26. 26 HelenNo Gravatar

    j_p_z

    This, for instance, ignores the very real possibility that the NYT and the WaPo have themselves become little more than great big angry, crazy blogs.

    Or, that a young person who might not have gone out of his or her way to buy a dead-tree newspaper will now become a regular reader of these due to having been directed to them via blogs.

    Tigtog

    What will I do with my day now?

    Go for a long bushwalk, or coast around all the other excellent blogs you know of, while blowing an enormous raspberry and shoving your middle digit in Applebum’s general direction.

  27. 27 tigtogNo Gravatar

    Go for a long bushwalk

    ’s raining. *sulk*

    or coast around all the other excellent blogs you know of,

    Yes. I’m also making spicy sour Asian chicken soup.

    while blowing an enormous raspberry and shoving your middle digit in Applebum’s general direction.

    Who’s Applebum? If sie deserves a digitus impudicus I will oblige (and my raspberries of scorn are stupendous), but need more information.

  28. 28 Paul BurnsNo Gravatar

    Graham @ 13, Tyro @ 19.
    One of the really interesting aspects of Blanning’s book, which I’d only dimly realised before, as most of my reading concentrates on Protestant England/North America/NSW, is rhe strength/influence of Catholicism in 18c Europe. This provides a very interesting background which partly explains the strength of anti-Catholicism on Protestant countries and the way it feeds into Great Power dynastic and high politics.My tentative conclusion is much of it was more about power, nationalism, different interpretations of the state, all muddied by the anti-clericalism of the Enlightenment, especially in France.Tentative, as I say.

  29. 29 ThomarseNo Gravatar

    Hmmmm, something positive happened this week, after fifteen frustrating months, my terrier bitch, Demi, finally graduated from Grade 3 to grade 4 at dog obedience school! A big deal, as grade 3 got soooo bloody booorinnngggggg!!!! Grade 4, with off-lead work is more challenging.

    Also, I finally managed to attend five consecutive nights at agility taining so on Thursday Demi graduated from Basic Beginner to Beginner :)
    Lovely sunny weather outside so will take Demi for a lovely long walk in a minute or 3

  30. 30 ThomarseNo Gravatar

    Errr happened this weekEND, like, today

  31. 31 suNo Gravatar

    Tigtog@25

    And what will I do, having become accustomed to lounging around there? What are they up to those Brunswick Heads people, are the prawns running or something?

  32. 32 FDBNo Gravatar

    My car just broke down in Canberra.

    Boo.

    20-30 grand’s worth of musical instruments in it, nowhere to stay and boy am I pissed off.

    Hope everyone else’s weekend is going heaps better. I’ve had a fucking gutful.

  33. 33 tigtogNo Gravatar

    su #31,

    at least lauredhel’s LJ is still up and running. She’d just crossposted regarding the assault in the BB House before Hoyden went down. [link]

  34. 34 Paul BurnsNo Gravatar

    These BB bully boys should be chatged with assault, BB should be charged with neglect of duty of care, and Travis should sue rhe arse off the lot of them.

  35. 35 HelenNo Gravatar

    Who’s Applebum? If sie deserves a digitus impudicus I will oblige (and my raspberries of scorn are stupendous), but need more information.

    That refers to Japerz’ comment #24, Tigtog, about one of these blogger-bashers. Boo!

    FDB, that’s terrible. I hope you get it sorted soon. I have been broken down (cooked engine) in Junee on the way back from Canberra in similar circs. I hope you have plenty of warm clothing.

  36. 36 Marky MarkNo Gravatar

    “Antonio
    May 31st, 2008 at 2:03 pm
    Brough just smashed it in as Queensland Liberal Prez 380 to 169 votes. That is an unprecedented hammering of Santo. Interesting times ahead for the Pineapple Party now!
    You read it first on LP!”

    And you heard it wrong from Antonio first :D
    The actual numbers are incorrect Antonio- as usual trying to act like you are in the know by a ‘hot off the press’ sneaking around the Hilton while avoiding all Liberals of note and still getting it wrong. Brough got in but not on your numbers buddy lmao

    Also if you reflect on last conventions Vice Presidental votes you would see that the VP’s of last convention won by equal numbers to the VP’s of this convention and the other exec positions were won on similar numbers so it is not an unprecedented hammering of Santo. A hammering of Santo is not just winning the Presidential vote but taking the whole box and dice.

    *Note Before you say Parer was Santos candidate Parer was uncontested because he was John Howards Presidential nomination not Santos. Parer may have sided with Santo more often that not but he was on both tickets out of respect to Howard.

  37. 37 FineNo Gravatar

    The BB thing just looks waful. But what I really can’t understand is wh is he doing in the house if he has shingles! It’s highly contagiuos in the early stages. Speaking from experience, it’s extremely painful and makes you feel terrible. There are also long term and quite common after effects if it’s not treated properly. He needs to be home in bed.

  38. 38 tigtogNo Gravatar

    Agreed, Fine. If anyone in the BB house had not had chickenpox as a kid then they could have caught it from him, and that’s not a disease that you want as an adult. (mr tog caught chickenpox from my shingles that way, then the kids caught it too, and then so did their preschool, despite my taking all the care I could to not pass it on).

    Wouldn’t it be delicious if the bullies start showing symptoms next week? (google) Incubation period 2-3 weeks, average 14-16 days. That would serve them so right.

  39. 39 MarkNo Gravatar
  40. 40 AntonioNo Gravatar

    Marky mark @ 36

    I’m not a member of any political party so I could hardly be accused of sneaking around the Liberal Party convention!

    I simply reported the numbers that were passed onto me. I’m more than happy to accept corrections on the exact numbers!

    I think Parer was definitely considered to be a Santo person regardless of whether he had Howards imprimatur or not. Working for Parer was one of Santos first political jobs right?

    Given that Broughs election represents the first non-Santo President in almost ten years, I would say that it’s a pretty significant moment for the QLD Libs. It will be interesting to see what happens with the State Director position.

    Thank you for your otherwise positive contribution to the discussion.

    Mark @ 15

    If I have time I will post a more detailed response but in short I think Brough will be a tough negotiator with the Nats particularly when it comes to the new constitution. The heat will now be on Springborg and his backers. If the Borg cedes to Brough quickly it could anger his backers and show leadership weakness. It will be interesting to see how the Nats handle a bride demanding a far more generous dowry!

  41. 41 MarkNo Gravatar

    Antonio, there’s now a post on Brough.

    I agree with you that potentially the Borg’s Pineapple has now hit a prickly patch.

  42. 42 MarkNo Gravatar
  43. 43 BilBNo Gravatar

    For General Exhibition

    An interesting CNN compilation on where personal flying is going.

    http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/173/flying_cars

  44. 44 Marky MarkNo Gravatar

    Antonio:

    “I think Parer was definitely considered to be a Santo person regardless of whether he had Howards imprimatur or not. Working for Parer was one of Santos first political jobs right?”

    Regardless Parer was backed at the previous convention by BOTH sides- it was not a Santo victory or numbers that he won on- the moderates should have run their own person and not bowed to Howard as they had the numbers but Parers number one Loyalties lay with the former PM and him only.

    “Given that Broughs election represents the first non-Santo President in almost ten years, I would say that it’s a pretty significant moment for the QLD Libs. It will be interesting to see what happens with the State Director position.”

    Brough has not been the ‘first’ non-Santo person to be elected in almost ten years. There were one or two past Presidents who were certainly not ‘Santo’ people- thought you would know that looking at previous posts about your knowledge and criticisms of various Liberal groups.

  45. 45 AntonioNo Gravatar

    Marky Mark:

    “Parers number one Loyalties lay with the former PM and him Besides, actions speak louder than words. Parer did a pretty good job of protecting the Santo grouping’s interests - particularly during the state parliamentary leadership debacle!

    “Brough has not been the ‘first’ non-Santo person to be elected in almost ten years. There were one or two past Presidents who were certainly not ‘Santo’ people.”

    Care to name one? And I’m not referring to people who won election as a Santo person but moved away from Santo towards the end of their Presidency (eg Bob Carroll).

    I stand by my original point that the election of Brough represents a significant shift within the Queensland Liberal party.

  46. 46 AntonioNo Gravatar

    Correction -

    “Parers number one Loyalties lay with the former PM and him only.”

    I’m not entirely sure how you could possibly know that MM! Besides, actions speak louder than words. Parer did a pretty good job of protecting the Santo grouping’s interests - particularly during the state parliamentary leadership debacle!

  47. 47 steveNo Gravatar

    The Independent Member for Nicklin, Peter Wellington faces a 21 day suspension for Contempt of Parliament. A vote will be taken tomorrow in the Queensland Parliament.

    http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/committees/documents/MEPPC/reports/Report%2090.pdf

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