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	<title>Comments on: Climate change denialism &#8211; why now?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 05:22:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: John Brookes</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-605304</link>
		<dc:creator>John Brookes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-605304</guid>
		<description>A few years ago, I tutored first year engineers in physics.  They were happy to believe in lots of things, but not in Einsteins theory of special relativity.  The particular bit they didn&#039;t like was the idea that they couldn&#039;t travel faster than the speed of light - that galaxies far far away were places they would never get to.  Anyway my take on it is that the denialists hate the idea of being limited.  The idea that you can&#039;t just burn fossil fuel willy-nilly is what bugs them.  This dislike of limits has been great for the human race thus far, and maybe it will keep working for us in the future, but it may also be time for us to grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few years ago, I tutored first year engineers in physics.  They were happy to believe in lots of things, but not in Einsteins theory of special relativity.  The particular bit they didn&#8217;t like was the idea that they couldn&#8217;t travel faster than the speed of light &#8211; that galaxies far far away were places they would never get to.  Anyway my take on it is that the denialists hate the idea of being limited.  The idea that you can&#8217;t just burn fossil fuel willy-nilly is what bugs them.  This dislike of limits has been great for the human race thus far, and maybe it will keep working for us in the future, but it may also be time for us to grow up.</p>
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		<title>By: Moniker Lewinsky</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499548</link>
		<dc:creator>Moniker Lewinsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499548</guid>
		<description>So &lt;i&gt;that&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; what the definition of &#039;is&#039; is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So <i>that&#8217;s</i> what the definition of &#8216;is&#8217; is.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499543</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499543</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sadly, she is no more, PC&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I know, and I agree that it is extremely sad -- though she might have said that the extra years she had after the crocodile episode were all gravy anyway. I meant &#039;is&#039; in the sense that her work endures, as in &#039;Shakespeare is Teh Bomb&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sadly, she is no more, PC</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I know, and I agree that it is extremely sad &#8212; though she might have said that the extra years she had after the crocodile episode were all gravy anyway. I meant &#8216;is&#8217; in the sense that her work endures, as in &#8216;Shakespeare is Teh Bomb&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: grace pettigrew</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499538</link>
		<dc:creator>grace pettigrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499538</guid>
		<description>&quot;...The Australian Val Plumwood is a particularly impressive theorist and writer in this field.&quot;

Sadly, she is no more, PC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;The Australian Val Plumwood is a particularly impressive theorist and writer in this field.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sadly, she is no more, PC</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499517</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499517</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yes, John is human.&quot;

No your lying.

EVIDENCE!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, John is human.&#8221;</p>
<p>No your lying.</p>
<p>EVIDENCE!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499371</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499371</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Can You Tell A Greenfield From A Cold Steel Rail?&lt;/i&gt;
.
Yes, John is human. Interesting feature of humans that we begin to compare other humans, who differ from us in some significant way, with inanimate objects. 
.
Pink Floyd &#039;ey. I&#039;ll pay the wit if not the spirit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Can You Tell A Greenfield From A Cold Steel Rail?</i><br />
.<br />
Yes, John is human. Interesting feature of humans that we begin to compare other humans, who differ from us in some significant way, with inanimate objects.<br />
.<br />
Pink Floyd &#8216;ey. I&#8217;ll pay the wit if not the spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499370</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499370</guid>
		<description>Kim made a paradox: &lt;i&gt;consistency has never been one of the strong points of the professional punditariat. I wouldn’t expect Bolta to change his line&lt;/i&gt;.
.
I like a paradox. It&#039;s true too. That&#039;s how agitprop works in these Post-Human times; we&#039;re willing to distort, dismantle and discard everything except our ill-thought out opinions on a subject. Mr Bolt is Melbourne&#039;s leading light of the trade that&#039;s arisen of this activity. 
.
Yet he&#039;s regarded as respectable by most..
.
My fave Bolta riff is when he bags Michael Moore. The old shitfight between well-used stovetop appliances. A&#039;ways good for a larf, that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim made a paradox: <i>consistency has never been one of the strong points of the professional punditariat. I wouldn’t expect Bolta to change his line</i>.<br />
.<br />
I like a paradox. It&#8217;s true too. That&#8217;s how agitprop works in these Post-Human times; we&#8217;re willing to distort, dismantle and discard everything except our ill-thought out opinions on a subject. Mr Bolt is Melbourne&#8217;s leading light of the trade that&#8217;s arisen of this activity.<br />
.<br />
Yet he&#8217;s regarded as respectable by most..<br />
.<br />
My fave Bolta riff is when he bags Michael Moore. The old shitfight between well-used stovetop appliances. A&#8217;ways good for a larf, that.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499351</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499351</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecofeminism&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ecofeminism&lt;/a&gt; has been around since 1974. 

Not advocatin&#039;; not denyin&#039;; just sayin&#039;. Some of it is persuasive, some of it is a stretch too far, all of it is thought-provoking. The Australian Val Plumwood is a particularly impressive theorist and writer in this field.

It is, to use what I think was Mark&#039;s phrase, an exploration of ideas and as such susceptible neither of proof nor of disproof, calls for either of which are merely evidence of a very basic act of category confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecofeminism" rel="nofollow">Ecofeminism</a> has been around since 1974. </p>
<p>Not advocatin&#8217;; not denyin&#8217;; just sayin&#8217;. Some of it is persuasive, some of it is a stretch too far, all of it is thought-provoking. The Australian Val Plumwood is a particularly impressive theorist and writer in this field.</p>
<p>It is, to use what I think was Mark&#8217;s phrase, an exploration of ideas and as such susceptible neither of proof nor of disproof, calls for either of which are merely evidence of a very basic act of category confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-4/#comment-499328</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499328</guid>
		<description>Alright, I&#039;m just going to abandon this extra gravatar. Sorry mini-me, you were too confusing.

All JG wants is attention of course, and I&#039;ve gone and fallen into his trap again.

Hey everyone! Did you hear the one about the thing which had nothing to do with John Greenfield? How interesting and worth everyone&#039;s time was that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright, I&#8217;m just going to abandon this extra gravatar. Sorry mini-me, you were too confusing.</p>
<p>All JG wants is attention of course, and I&#8217;ve gone and fallen into his trap again.</p>
<p>Hey everyone! Did you hear the one about the thing which had nothing to do with John Greenfield? How interesting and worth everyone&#8217;s time was that?</p>
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		<title>By: Can You Tell A Greenfield From A Cold Steel Rail?</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499327</link>
		<dc:creator>Can You Tell A Greenfield From A Cold Steel Rail?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499327</guid>
		<description>&quot;his contibutions stick out like the proverbial…&quot;

Yarr, hound&#039;s harbles they be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;his contibutions stick out like the proverbial…&#8221;</p>
<p>Yarr, hound&#8217;s harbles they be.</p>
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		<title>By: adrian</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499305</link>
		<dc:creator>adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499305</guid>
		<description>Yes, even true &lt;i&gt;FDB!&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, even true <i>FDB!</i></p>
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		<title>By: Lefty E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499300</link>
		<dc:creator>Lefty E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499300</guid>
		<description>You know what? I just lost all interest in climate denialists. 

I urge you all to do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what? I just lost all interest in climate denialists. </p>
<p>I urge you all to do the same.</p>
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		<title>By: adrian</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499297</link>
		<dc:creator>adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499297</guid>
		<description>True FBD. He even makes Mr Strocchi vaguely interesting in comparison. And it doesn&#039;t matter which moniker he posts under, his contibutions stick out like the proverbial...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True FBD. He even makes Mr Strocchi vaguely interesting in comparison. And it doesn&#8217;t matter which moniker he posts under, his contibutions stick out like the proverbial&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Lady</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499283</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499283</guid>
		<description>Helen

You would do well to avoid discussion of Camille Paglia. You are WAY out your depth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen</p>
<p>You would do well to avoid discussion of Camille Paglia. You are WAY out your depth.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499282</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499282</guid>
		<description>Greenfield, you are truly a bore&#039;s boor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenfield, you are truly a bore&#8217;s boor.</p>
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		<title>By: The Lady</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-499279</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-499279</guid>
		<description>Kim

We unreservedly embrace a more &quot;feminised&quot; and &quot;nurturing&quot; approach. So repeat:

1. There is no such thing as society

2. Aboriginal welfare payments must be quarantined.

3. The Lady is not for turning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim</p>
<p>We unreservedly embrace a more &#8220;feminised&#8221; and &#8220;nurturing&#8221; approach. So repeat:</p>
<p>1. There is no such thing as society</p>
<p>2. Aboriginal welfare payments must be quarantined.</p>
<p>3. The Lady is not for turning.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-476132</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-476132</guid>
		<description>Paul -\

&lt;blockquote&gt;3. For a certain kind of person (e.g. Peter Walsh) acceptance of the reality of climate change means accepting that a group of people who one deeply dislikes and disapproves of are right and have been right for a long about something important which one has been wrong about for a long time. It means eating crow - uncooked, feathers, feet, beak, gizzards and all.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A little like Marxist-Leninists and the market economy, the apparatus of liberal (bourgeois) democracy et al.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’d have thought that Phillip Adams would have had a black Ferrari. Would that still make him a blokey bloke, or do they have to be red?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What is it about red fucking Ferraris. Every grand prix week-end every well to do Italianaustralian has to park his or her Ferrari on Lygon St. The whole street is one long red Ferrari. Except the rugged individualist with the yellow one (they&#039;re keeping an eye on that one). 
&gt;
Any one of you guys ever think about getting a Maserati? &lt;i&gt;That&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; class. And make it midnight blue!
&gt;
And Philip Adams needs to shut-up now, for ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul -\</p>
<blockquote><p>3. For a certain kind of person (e.g. Peter Walsh) acceptance of the reality of climate change means accepting that a group of people who one deeply dislikes and disapproves of are right and have been right for a long about something important which one has been wrong about for a long time. It means eating crow &#8211; uncooked, feathers, feet, beak, gizzards and all.</p></blockquote>
<p>A little like Marxist-Leninists and the market economy, the apparatus of liberal (bourgeois) democracy et al.</p>
<blockquote><p>I’d have thought that Phillip Adams would have had a black Ferrari. Would that still make him a blokey bloke, or do they have to be red?</p></blockquote>
<p>What is it about red fucking Ferraris. Every grand prix week-end every well to do Italianaustralian has to park his or her Ferrari on Lygon St. The whole street is one long red Ferrari. Except the rugged individualist with the yellow one (they&#8217;re keeping an eye on that one).<br />
&gt;<br />
Any one of you guys ever think about getting a Maserati? <i>That&#8217;s</i> class. And make it midnight blue!<br />
&gt;<br />
And Philip Adams needs to shut-up now, for ever.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-476041</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-476041</guid>
		<description>Oh sorry, that number from the NSF was actually the number of American &lt;em&gt;workers&lt;/em&gt; with science and engineering degrees. Including retirees and the unemployed, the total number with such degrees would be somewhat higher -- plus there&#039;s the fact that some of the signers are dead (like Edward Teller, whose signature is on the front page).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh sorry, that number from the NSF was actually the number of American <em>workers</em> with science and engineering degrees. Including retirees and the unemployed, the total number with such degrees would be somewhat higher &#8212; plus there&#8217;s the fact that some of the signers are dead (like Edward Teller, whose signature is on the front page).</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-476040</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-476040</guid>
		<description>So is Yahoo! Answers more or less authoritative than Wikipedia? 

That petition is a joke. They let anyone with even a mere bachelor of science degree sign it, and they don&#039;t require that the signer has even worked as a scientist. Do you know how many Americans qualify? According the National Science Foundation, 15.7 million Americans have at least one degree in a science and engineering field, which puts those 31000 in perspective: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind06/c3/c3h.htm 

If I were an American, &lt;em&gt;I&lt;/em&gt; could sign it -- I&#039;ve got an MSc (and have never had a paid job as a scientist). But I wouldn&#039;t. Which proves nothing either way, because science doesn&#039;t work by signing petitions.

See also http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/10/oregon-institute-of-science-and-malarkey/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is Yahoo! Answers more or less authoritative than Wikipedia? </p>
<p>That petition is a joke. They let anyone with even a mere bachelor of science degree sign it, and they don&#8217;t require that the signer has even worked as a scientist. Do you know how many Americans qualify? According the National Science Foundation, 15.7 million Americans have at least one degree in a science and engineering field, which puts those 31000 in perspective: <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind06/c3/c3h.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind06/c3/c3h.htm</a> </p>
<p>If I were an American, <em>I</em> could sign it &#8212; I&#8217;ve got an MSc (and have never had a paid job as a scientist). But I wouldn&#8217;t. Which proves nothing either way, because science doesn&#8217;t work by signing petitions.</p>
<p>See also <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/10/oregon-institute-of-science-and-malarkey/" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/10/oregon-institute-of-science-and-malarkey/</a></p>
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		<title>By: blogreader</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/comment-page-3/#comment-476036</link>
		<dc:creator>blogreader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/03/climate-change-denialism-why-now/#comment-476036</guid>
		<description>For a summary of my physical and chemical objections, see this extensively endorsed discussion.
http://www.petitionproject.org/
The IPCC claims the collective wisdom of 2500 seers, petition project claims 31,072.
Something doesn&#039;t add up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a summary of my physical and chemical objections, see this extensively endorsed discussion.<br />
<a href="http://www.petitionproject.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.petitionproject.org/</a><br />
The IPCC claims the collective wisdom of 2500 seers, petition project claims 31,072.<br />
Something doesn&#8217;t add up.</p>
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