There’s some fantastic coverage of the current situation in Zimbabwe in the lead up to the runoff Presidential election at the New Statesman this week - this link takes you through to all the articles.
Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas
A background to Zimbabwe that gives a different perspective to the MDC than that of the mainstream media and British foreign policy.
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve5/1082zimb.html
“In 1999 the “Movement for Democratic Change” was established. The MDC was
primarily the creation of the (white) Commercial Farmers’ Union and a
shadowy international body called Zimbabwe Democracy Trust. Although it had
a black person as its leader the white farmers switched their political
allegiance from the Rhodesian Front which was no longer a viable option.”
thanks to Bush Telegraph for the link http://bushtelegraph.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/support-the-people-of-zimbabwe/
New Statesman, eh Kim? That’s more like it.
I recommend this NS article by John Pilger as another worthwhile insight. Western hypocrisy certainly helps explain why Mugabe can still get a standing ovation from impoverished black Africans.
I think the guns at their heads are probably a factor too somehow. Zimbabwe’s like Burma. Shoot the govt. Sometimes it’s the only way.
I think the guns at their heads are probably a factor too somehow.
D’uh.
Shoot the govt.
That didn’t work too well in Iraq, did it?
HdeZfm,
My comment was not in support of Mugabe, although I would probably vote ZANU PF if I was a Zimbabwian.
Amnesty international provides plenty of evidence of systematic abuse of human rights by the Zimbabwe state and I in no way deny or justify this.
My concern is that freedom loving people in places like Australia have swallowed the illusion that MDC is a progressive, justice focused organisation that stands as the moral alternative to what has been caracatured as Mugabe’s personal tyrrany.
If the MDC gain government there will be an immediate mobilisation of the war veterans and their supporrters and Mugabe has already foreshadowed this. What might this mean?
An MDC government backed by international states and capital trying to undo the land reform process and return white farmers to their land and the reintegration of Zimbabwe’s economy with the global market, at the same time as repressing a nationalist resistance movement.
Is this the path for peace that so many are calling for? Will the MDC, who have already called for a military coup, respect human rights and democratic process? or will their priority be protecting foreign capital “in the interests of the economy” and brutally crush the opposition as the previous white government did?.
MDC may well have been formed a decade ago, but in that time their main issue has remained the civil liberties and constitutional rights of white farmers, which according to MDC and the western commentariate is essemtial to Zimbabwes economy, presumably because black people cant farm?.
The MDC program is for Zimbabwe to engage in global agribusiness, what the Rockefeller foundation is calling the “2nd Green revolution”, it is green because, unlike the disasterous 1st green revolution that was dependent on chemical fertilisers, this second green revolution is based on pest resistant g.m. crops so wont need pesticides, but still centrally controlled by agribusiness as was the fatal flaw of the first green revolution. Bill Gates’ new philanthropy is this incorporation of Africa into the global marketplace and agribusiness scheme.
Mugabe has expelled these programs, these systems of foreign domination, and been accused of playing politics with food aid for his resistance. The MDC holds these foreign agribusiness programs up as the lolly bag that will save the economy and bring prosperity.
What happened to HdeZfm’s comments?
Was that JG in disguise?
You don’t deny or justify ZANU PF’s systematic abuse of human rights but you’d still probably vote for them. Weird.
JT, I dont know whether black people cant farm or not but the evidence is that Zimbabwe was once the food basket of southern African and now it is a food basket case. I always thought that instead of running the white farmers off the land they ought to have purchased the land back and retained the white farmers as managers, (at least until black managers coul dbe trained up) something similar happened in PNG with some success after independence there.
“the reintegration of Zimbabwe’s economy with the global market”
The great English left wing economist Joan Robinson once said that there is only one thing worse than being exploited by multinational companies, and that is not being exploited by multinational companies.
John Tracey’s arguments, such as they are, are the great verities of circa 1970. The caravan has moved on, just a little bit, since then.
Will the MDC, if they get a chance, prove to be the salvation of Zimbabwe? Maybe, maybe not. But it would have to better than the venal mix of brutality, stupidity and corruption that exists as present. Mugabe, in the worst tradition of African dictators, has squandered everything and sought to blame others for his own miserable failures. And as always, there are people like John Tracey who use phrases of the type “I don’t support everything he’s done but … “. In past generations, some people on the Left said exactly this about Stalin.
Let’s be clear about this. Zimbabwe’s suffering, so unnecessary, so avoidable, is Mugabe’s doing. He deserves not merely to suffer an crushing electoral defeat but to be tried for his many, many crimes. The Hague beckons.
The major point in favour of the MDC is that they are NOT ZanuPF.
Zimbabwe is in such strife that nothing else should be required to attract votes.
While I hold no brief at all for Mugabe, we all need to remember that, at the time, he looked like a huge improvement over Ian Smith.
G M, PF and S
I have recently been looking at reports of human rights violations in Z, nothing comprehansive, just scanning. It seems that in most cases including Amnesty’s recent stuff makes no deliniation between a person in uniform engaging in official torture and a street fight between rival tribes or factions in community. Civil unrest, factional fighting and tribal warfare has been dishonestly described as state repression.
There is one major source of information in the media regarding the present violence - and that is the MDC which is a participant in the violence. The MDC attacks on ZANU PF have not been at all reported, any local ZANU PF militance has been reported as state violence.
Just look at how the war Veterens have been oppressing the white farmers and their civil liberties - not by way of Mugabe or state action but by grass roots direct action at the local level.
It is a myth that Mugabe is behind it all. The unresolved tensions of colonialism have in no way gone from Zimbabwe, it is still in a period of civil war against foreign capital and land ownership. The choice for Zimbabwe today as it was 20 years ago is between dependence of foreign capital and the global market or sovereign independence economically as well as politically. I support the latter.
An Australian paralell - I think ATSIC was corrupt but I still support the Aboriginal struggle.
And also, when Z was the the food basket to the world, the Zimbabweans only got the crumbs that fell through the cracks in the basket. While Z was producing great profits for the corporations that invested in Zimbabwe, the massive bulk of the indigenous populuation was poor and dispossessed from land, the causal factors of the revolution.
From a report in today’s Australian
“THE wife of the unofficial mayor of Harare was so badly beaten by the mob that dragged her and her four-year-old son from their home that even her brother-in-law struggled to identify the body.
The clothes she was wearing, her distinctive haircut and the blindfold that Zanu (PF) supporters forced her to wear as they firebombed her home gave the only clue to her identity.
Her battered corpse is testament to a brutal new tactic in the suppression of opponents before a presidential run-off vote on June 27.
In the past week the wives of at least three opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) officials have been murdered.
…
Zanu (PF) struck again in Jerera, a small administrative town in southeastern Zimbabwe, not two weeks after it opened fire on six MDC supporters in the local party office, poured petrol on to them and set fire to them, killing two instantly.On Tuesday night, said a Catholic nun who asked not to be named, they burnt down the home of the Catholic priest at St Anthony’s mission there.
At another Catholic mission farther north, she said, nuns had been ordered to purchase T-shirts bearing Mr Mugabe’s face, and wear them over their habits. They were forced to buy Zanu (PF) party cards for Zdollars 20 billion each, worth about 50p in Zimbabwe’s worthless currency.”
Notwithstanding, John Tracey would still vote for ZanuPF. And he thinks it would be so terrible for the Zimbabwean economy if it was reintegrated into the global market, because, as it we can see, it’s travelling so well now.
“it is still in a period of civil war against foreign capital and land ownership.”
Yes, Mugabe just needs more time. He’s only been in power for 28 years.
“at the time, he looked like a huge improvement over Ian Smith.”
Well actually at the time Smith had vacated the field and the choice was Mugabe or Joshua Nkomo, or Abel Muzorewa. But it must be said that Mugabe did win the first election fairly, or as fairly as could be determined at the time. However that was 1980. It’s now 2008.
“It is a myth that Mugabe is behind it all.”
This is self-evident. He’s a doddering old fart who can’t even read his speeches coherently any more.
He was, however, the man standing over it all, with the opportunity to unify, modernise, and build economic and cultural bridges between factions and tribes. Neglect is a form of abuse - neglect which vastly empowers one’s allies and deepens divisions for the sake of holding power is a disgrace.
Of course colonial history has lasting impacts, but your preoccupation with it is pushing you perilously close to apologism.
Well North Korea made the same choice as you wish for Zimbabwe and that has worked out oh so well for the North Koreans, hasn’t it?
“and that has worked out oh so well for the North Koreans, hasn’t it?”
Let’s not forget Burma.
It’s peculiar, this “sovereign independence economically”. According to some strains of Left thought, this is a Good Thing. Yet, the US trade sanctions against Cuba, which have done a truly excellent job in enforcing that country’s “sovereign independence economically” are a Bsd Thing.
Go figure.
whatever you say about him, he is remarkably well-preserved for an 84 year old.
“he is remarkably well-preserved for an 84 year old.”
Only from the neck down.
“he is remarkably well-preserved for an 84 year old.”
So is Kim il Sung, Eternal President of North Korea. Formaldehyde I think.
It strikes me that, whatever their other motivations or ideological stance, the fact that MDC are committed in principle to defending individual liberty is the main reason why they would be my strategic choice were I a Zimbabwean. Post-election is a different matter.
Whether or not Mugabe is the puppet-master of the current violence, he is politically responsible for it. It may be argued that there is little hope for individual liberty, or for that matter for economic justice for the majority of Zimbabweans, under an MDC government. What is clear is that there is no hope for these things under Mugabe.
Obviously what it means is that the “war veterans” and their supporters don’t believe in democracy and are not prepared to accept the people’s verdict in democratic elections.
And you laughably describe them as a nationalist resistance movement rather than what they are; anti-democratic thugs.
I’d love to have your take on the Burmese army’s response to the National League for Democracy winning Burma’s 1990 elections. The response of a nationalist resistance movement fearful of being brutally crushed by the new government, perhaps?
Thanks for the last two comments, Klaus K and GregM. Rationalisations like John Tracey’s for systematic murder, genocide (as Mugabe seems to have perpetrated) and other crimes against humanity I just cannot understand. Mugabe’s own people have tried for the last few elections to get rid of him and John would still vote for him.
Trying to paint him as a national resistance leader when the only thing he is resisting is his own nation just seems completely and totally intellectually dishonest.
Well said, Spiros and GregM
Robert Mugabe still appeals to the spirit of 1980. Africa has moved on. China no longer supports “anti-colonialist” liberation movements. Mugabe moved against Joshua Nkomo (older readers may remember him) fairly soon after independence and began massacribg opponents.
Another analogy on the “economic independence” angle is Pol Pot’s Kampuchea. Pol used to bang on about “independence-mastery”, but basically oversaw a slave state with very poor rations, low rice production, amateur irrigation projects, too little mechanisation, etc. Borders closed off. Major cities emptied. Govt radio railing against all kinds of foreign enemies.
The real enemies of the Cambodians tuned out to have been the Khmer Rouge leadership. The ‘leaders’ ate well while their compatriots starved, were tortured, or fled in despair. My impression is that Mugabe is of this ilk.
A good recent biography of Pol is http://www.metacritic.com/books/authors/shortphilip/polpot
But the point is that a majority of Zimbabwean people have chosen to vote for the MDC. Surely, whatever anyone thinks of them, they should be the government, until they’re voted out.
Fine, surely you cannot be serious. Or do you know something about the electoral process in Zimbabwe that I don’t?
Cambodia is a good comparison, and anyone who has visited that wonderful country and spoken with its poor, suffering but spirited people would no doubt empathise with plight of the Zimbabweans.
Just to qualify my statement: I disagree with John Tracey in terms of the politics of the situation, but in terms of making an historical argument (or even a moral one), I think the colonial inheritance is very important to understanding Zimbabwe as well as some of the other regimes mentioned here. Mugabe is a direct product of that brutal context, but he has perpetuated it in the inverse, and for that he bears responsibility.
Yes, I am being serious Adrian. Mugabe is threatening that he won’t hand over government. He really wouldn’t need to do that if the Opposition had won the popular vote in the first round.
Democracy, that process by which a citizen puts a mark on a piece of paper every several years is a British cultural structure and mythology imposed onto Africa. It is the democratic constitution itself that until recently entrenched white control of land in Zimbabwe.
This ritual of choosing politicians in no way provides the structure for the will of the people to be expressed and executed, it is simply the justification, the authorisation of an elite to govern on its own terms and priorities.
Democracy in Zimbabwe, like democracy in Iraq or Afghanistan or East Timor is an imperialist imposition to entrench the interests of corporations or the British, U.S. or Australian national interest. It has nothing to do with the rule of the people by the people and it certainly does not guarantee that Zimbabwe soil will be used to feed Zimbabwean stomachs rather than the profit margins of Agribusiness stockholders.
As Spiros’ update on the violence indicates. ZANU PF is not a political party like the ALP or a police action like Burma, it is a system of governance that involves people at the local level. The parliamentary presense is just the tip of the iceberg, the figureheads of the real local and regional structures of governance and war.
It is unrealistic to expect this national revolutionary infrastructure to dissolve itself because its political opposition wins an election. DMC, at best is the traditional British mode of divide and conquer employed in all their colonies. At worst, and what I believe to be the case, it is an aggressive plan to reintegrate white farmers into the global economy, claiming that Zimbabwe may again glean falling crumbs.
Why else are these white farmers so crucial to the Zimbabwe economy? What can they do that black folk cant? I suspect indigenous farmers may want to prioritise feeding their families, especially in these times of economic collapse, rather than fullfilling export quotas. But even if there was integration into the global market, why does this have to be on the terms of the white farmers rather than the economic and export development plans of a nationalist government or even indigenous entrepreneurs?. Why is it the Rockefeller/Gates way or no way when it comes to engaging in the global market? Why cant a single desk system in Zimbabwe deal directly with the economies of other African nations, China and even the E.U. rather than conform to what is expected of it by philanthropists and state aid and white farm managers?
How do you know democracy is a Western imposition?
What system do you propose that will express the will of the people?
Do you think Mugabe expresses the will of the people?
John Tracey - re: all your posts, but especially #28 - are you taking the piss?
John Tracey, what a glorious paean of praise for dictatorship you have provided. Every word of it can be applied to that happy land that is the Democratic People’s Repubic of Korea and the wise leadership of the Light to All Nations, the Dear Leader Kim Jong Il. And also, at the risk of Godwin’s Law being invoked, the social organisation of the German National Socialist Workers Party under their wise leader.
Canada? New Zealand? Australia? Colonies all at one time of the British. I had thought that their getting representative government on a parliamentary model was a step towards self-government and finally independence but it seems that you interpret it as the traditional British mode of divide and conquer. According to your reasoning the ALP should configure itself as a national revolutionary infrastructure with local and regional structures of governance and war. It would show the poms that we have seen, at last, through their fiendish plan to subjugate us. I can see now Kevin Rudd as our Beloved and Respected Leader leading the revolutionary masses to a glorious new era. And of course, as in Zimbabwe, if they will not follow they can starve.
But back to Zimbabwe and its economy though.
Grow food for one thing.
Before Mugabe and ZANU PF dismantled their farming infrastructure Zimbabwe was self-sufficient in food and a net exporter. Now it is an agricultural wasteland, it does not have enough food to feed its population has millions of its people living as economic refugees living in neighbouring countries and millions more starving.
And whose policies, do you think, are responsible for these times of economic collapse in Zimbabwe?
They can’t deal directly, through single desk or otherwise, with other African nations et al because they have nothing to sell. They have nothing to sell because their agriculture sector has collapsed and they can’t produce enough food even to feed themselves. And whose economic policies do you think have lead to this state of affairs?
Do you know anything at all about either agriculture or economics? Or about the basic responsibility of a government to at least see that its people have enough to eat?
Ghandi -
Well it worked well enough in getting rid of Saddam. The problems that came afterward were a result of the fact that Iraq is really three countries who hate each other - civil war, that the Americans conned themselves into believing it would be easier than it was and ignoring the possibility that Saddam would adopt the strategy he did and above all that it is under foreign occupation.
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I was not suggesting some kind of neo-con adventurism altho’ I will say I’d be a bit better disposed to the neo-cons if they had fought for democracy in a country that wasn’t so conspicuously well-stocked with oil.
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What I was suggesting was something I almost never think is necessary but is here - revolution.
Democracy doesn’t actually exist in Zimbabwe for starters. There is a nasty interplay between corrupt governance and the exploitation of national resources by private interests backed up by, say, the American Department of State. This is true. The setting up of a puppet-regime in Iraq which then signed away its oil dirt cheap is a good example of that. It’s also worth noting however that there are other players, China for example. Pressure can be brought to bear by consumer activism in democratic countries: boycotting companies that take advantage of terrible situations to make a fast buck. Try that in China and what it gets you.
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Democracy is a reality and there are too many people who dismiss it as bourgeois crap using neo-imperialism as a reason. Democracy does not do away with reprehensible or ammoral activity. What it does is make governments answerable to their people. And it gives people a space whereby they can take said activity to task and stop it.
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Certainly there’s been some nefarious use of the term by neoconservatives who talk about bringing democracy to the world whilst rolling it back at home - but just because someone says ‘democracy’ when they’re talking about a puppet state or ‘free market’ when they’re talking about entrenched oligopilistical domination of that puppet state and the rape of its resources at the expense of the people doesn’t mean that the idea of a stable state, wherein there’s the rule of law, guaranteed rights, the seperation of powers and free and fair elections is bad. It’s not. It’s good.
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And just because it’s a Western idea doesn’t mean it’s imperialism. By that logic the Japanese are imperialist stooges because they use electricity.
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Zimbabwe ain’t a democracy it’s a totalitarian nightmare dominated by a Butcher God-King who’ll do us all a favour when he drops. Neither is Iraq, Afghanistan or East Timor btw - they’re war zones.
Two v. recent reports June 12 & 18 from IRIN (UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs) with background on the food shortage generally and also that in the run-up to the run-off prez. elections, Mugabe is buying or has ordered 300K Mt of maize from South Africa and has apparently told supporters the Govt is buying 600K Mt.
Not coincidentally: “In May, the government suspended humanitarian operations, including feeding schemes, after it accused nongovernmental organisations (NGOs) of “political activity.”
The cynical & abject callousness of this type of manipulation of basic food staples is so beyond my experience to properly express anything except - there by the grace of. And hopefully people aren’t going to be swayed by their Govt’s newly found concern for like, their survival.
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=78714
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=78794
Greg,
You attribute much to me that is perhaps a contruction of your own preconcptions than anything I may have implied. I find your reference to Nth Korea to be similar to Bush’s notion of the axis of evil - an emotive trick that lumps all enemies in the same box and demonises the box with the predictable reference to NAZIsm.
My comments have been about the MDC, not Mugabe. Can you or anyone else really say that a party fighting for the rights of white farmers in an African country is the path to democracy?
I have noted your and others repulsion at the Mugabi regime but why do you unquestioningly endorse the MDC agenda?
As for Canada, N.Z. and Australia. In all these cases self government was an institution of colonial society, not the indigenous society. Aborigines were not even recognised as full citizens here until 1967.
I say it is a racist comment to say that black people cannot grow food.
John Tracey -
Actually it could be. There’s no reason why it couldn’t. If said white farmers are pushing for a genuine democracy, not some kind of return to apartheid I’d say it’s a possibility. The issue is not who are the interest groupd backing this or that party. There are always interest groups involved in parties. Most interest groups are dead partisan and many are dominated by people who’re not interested in democracy. However they will all submit to it as they understand that without they may possibly be margialized and oppressed.
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The relevant issue is the structure of the State: elections, rule of law, freedoms of the press, rights blah blah. Mugabe ain’t into that and his country is fucked as a result.
Not really relevant and overly simplistic. The countries you mention were able to self-govern because the Brits had learnt their lessons courtesy of the USA: a compromise by Empire with democracy. That Aborigines weren’t recongized is an anti-democratic function of racism. In 1967 democracy won.
Change of tack:
John Tracey - can you please list the good things that Zanu PF has achieved for Zimbabwe?
Adrien,
Within the wisdom of “anything is possible” it could be that the white farmers are a vehicle for African democracy but I am afraid you will need more than this kind of naive hope to convince me that DMC is not the Empire striking back. Look at the History of the MDC and those who support it internationally today. I tend to put more weight in my analysis to such things than your , again naively hopefull, belief that the vested interests will somehow succumb to the will and needs of the people through the democratic process.
also,
The indigenes of America had nothing to do with the squabbles between English migrants in America and the English crown just as Australian indigenies have not at all been considered in colonial notions of Australian sovereignty right up to the current republic re-debate.
FDB,
They overthrew British colonial domination. ZANU PF is a coalition of many revolutionary groups that fought to overthrow white minority government.
Therefore, and let’s not beat about the bush on this, you have called me a racist.
And you have shown from doing that that you are completely ignorant about what racism is.
The white farmers who you, as an ignorant racist (let me return your comment), excoriate can grow food in large volumes because they have been trained in the techniques of agriculture that developed with the Agricultural Revolution beginning in England about three hundred years ago. That revolution was the product of opportunity and enquiry at the time which led to the development of scientific methods of agriculture based upon observation and measurement. There is nothing about race to explain why this happened in England initially before other places. It would have occurred anywhere else where the circumstances of opportunity and enquiry converged. However it meant that there developed a suite of transferable skills which made agriculture extremely productive and allowed the accumulation of large surpluses for sale.
However, since times immemorial farming has been a property based family affair, handed down from father to son (and very rarely to daughters), something as true of African farmers as it is of white farmers. Therefore in Zimbabwe at the time Mugabe decided to wreck its economy those who had the skills to carry out industrial scale agriculture were white farmers. There is no reason why, had they been trained in the disciplines of industrial agriculture, and had access to the land needed on which to practice it, that African farmers could not do the same.
However, under Mugabe, when he decided to seize white-owned farms, that essential skills transfer had not occurred. Had he delayed until a cadre of skilled black Zimbabwean farmers had been developed ready to take over, and he let them to do so, he could have undertaken an expropriation that would not have (much) disrupted Zimbabwe’s agricultural production and its capacity to feed his people.
But he didn’t wait until Africn Zimbabweans were skilled up to take over. He seized the farms and there was no one trained to take them over, so they fell into ruin and ceased to be productive agricultural units. So now millions of Zimbabweans starve.
But that’s OK with you. What does it matter to you if black people starve so long as it gives you a way to get at whitey. It’s pretty clear that black people are just a means to an end for you.
And you have the cheek to accuse me of being a racist.
John Tracey
I am not naive John and I’m not hoping for anything. I didn’t say that white farmers are a vehicle for democracy in Zimbabwe I said there’s no reason why they can’t be. If they help institute democratic structures then they are. And yes you’re quite right. They will need more than hope. They need guns and bullets. Whatever Mugabe might’ve achieved in ze revolution he’s well and truly fucked his country now. Unfortunately there’s a pattern whereby revolutionairies end up being worse than the former masters precisely because the apparatus of democracy is forestalled by them. Please see Animal Farm as an illustration of the process.
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I’m not sure whether you’ve noticed this but the Empire ain’t there any more. The processes known as ‘neo-imperialism’ which is what you refer to tend to be assisted by fubar situations like Kleptocratic autocracies, entrenched corruption or eternal civil war. In fact if you examine the history of this ‘neo-imperialism’ you’ll find that it opposes the establishment of democracy.
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Your notion seems to be that white people can’t possibly bring democracy into an African country. Why not? Times change. There’s nothing inherently ‘evil’ about people with low levels of melanin. If the structures of democracy described above are in the interests of what is now a racial minority then they might very well pursue it. I’m not saying they will. I’m just saying the fact that they’re white farmers doesn’t mean they won’t. Also I seem to observe that the opposition to Mugabe is mostly by persons with dark complexions. Imperialist stooges perchance?
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Again your references to indigenous peoples are both true and immaterial to this discussion. It’s dopey syllogism. White people made the British Empire, White people made democracy ergo: Democracy=British Empire. Will you be demonstrating that Socrates was a cat in the near future?
John
They shouldn’t be able to continually use their liberation credentials as a crutch - a dominant party system such as that which exists in Zim, SA and Japan is not healthy for democracy
John Tracey,
GregM and others didn’t say black farmers can’t grow food. There is more than one contrast to make here. We can contrast the productivity of white farmers with black farm workers, against the current productivity - which has plummeted. Have you heard that many Zimbabweans are starving?
But there’s another contrast we can make: that between Zimbabwe, where soil and circumstances used to favour agricultural output, and OTHER African countries with good soil, good rainfall, good farming methods; where BLACK farmers are successfully feeding their own families and selling their surplus food.
What is the salient difference? The policies and practices of Mr Mugabe’s regime. Colonial legacies fade away into irrelevance, against that looming and disastrous factor.
But if you insist on re-living the independence struggle John Tracey, tell us your estimation of Joshua Nkomo, and his ZAPU. (ZANU wasn’t the only prominent anti-colonial party.) Tell us about the massacre in the early 1980s [Matabeleland??] when Mr Mugabe’s true colours began to emerge.
Adrien wrote: “Your notion seems to be that white people can’t possibly bring democracy into an African country. Why not? Times change.”
Hear, hear! One spectacular example was when a white South African president negotiated with a black prisoner, to bring majority (democratic) rule to their nation. It was an important turning point for Africa. Imagine that, John Tracey: a powerful white man gave up much of his power, knowing that a convicted criminal was likely to benefit. And also millions of downtrodden black miners, farmers, teachers, children.
Ambigulous. majority rule was won in South Africa because the alternative of mass violence was not in the interests of the white minority, not because of any sentiment to democracy. The same reformist white government was crushing black resistance only a few years earlier.
Greg did indeed say black people cant grow food @ 31. Then he justified his assertion @ 39. And Greg, what I said, and I stand by it was “I say it is a racist comment to say that black people cannot grow food.”
And regards to ZAPU and Nkomo. Again, I am not apologising for the Mugabi regime, my comments are about MDC. As you indicate, ZANU PF is a broad church including ZAPU who co-founded it. The nationalist sovereignty movement is not a figment of Mugabi’s imagination or a manifestation of his ego nor is it without its own unresolved internal conflicts. it is a very broad and diverse movement that still has considerable electoral support. But the point of unity between Nkomo and Mugabi was sovereignty. The brutality of Mugabi’s maintainence of power within the sovereignty movement in no way justifies the movement to reintroduce colonial paradigms.
Why does criticism of the MDC provoke such a backlash?
Are the enemies of Mugabi really the friends of freedom and democracy simply because they are the enemies of Mugabi? Have the multinational corporations and their facilitating states really given up on dominating global resources? The CIA orchestrated the coup in Chile against a socialist government, why is it so outrageous to suggest such a thing mught be occuring in Zimbabwe?
Interesting questions, John Tracey, but difficult to take seriously without some evidence. If Mugabe is to be understood here as another Allende you’re going to have to do more than ask questions.
Quite right I did. As is obvious from the fact that the people of Zimbabwe are starving. That’s just an observation of fact.
But that’s not their fault, anymore than it would be my fault that I couldn’t make a living from fishing because no-one has taught me how to do that.
It is the fault of Robert Mugabe and his racist enablers and apologists (of which you are one) that when he took over the white farms he had not had the foresight to ensure that there were trained up and motivated black farmersready, capable and allowed to take over running those farms.
You however falsely attributed to me that I thought that their race as being the reason for their incapacity to do (normal blame whitey mode of the racist), rather than their self-evident lack of skills -and in Mugabe’s Zimbabwe, opportunity, since whatever they grew would be stolen from them as part of the ZANU PF patronage racket anyway- without any justification but since you make a living out of the racist “blame whitey” game what else could we expect from you?
Fine @ 29 sorry, I missed your questions earlier.
“How do you know democracy is a Western imposition?”
If democracy is about parliaments, presidents, constitutions and private property then its history is easy to track to European parliaments. African Village, tribal, regional and pan-African structures have existed for millenia in Africa before the English system of parliament and bureacracy was introduced into Africa.
“What system do you propose that will express the will of the people?”
This is exactly the same discassion as for Aboriginal representation in this country. I say regional electorates or constituencies based around tribal land and territories whereby tribal elders maintain a role in government at the local level, but thats just my opinion. The legitimacy of African culture, like Aboriginal culture, is the cornerstone of indigenous sovereignty. When people have real control of the economy and politics of their local community then there is real democracy, not the seasonal box ticking of western democracy.
Cuba, Libya and in particular Venezuela have all developed municiple structures federated at national levels. Westminster is not the only model of government available.
“Do you think Mugabe expresses the will of the people?”
Which people?
Mugabe represents ZANU PF which represents a broad coalition of groups and organisations throughout Zimbabwe with an agenda of sovereignty and self determination.
There are obviously many who do not support Mugabi or ZANU PF. Except for the white farmers, I do not believe MDC represents these peoples interests but, in the traditiion of western democracy, seeks their mandate to pursue the agenda of MDC’s masters, those who have supported and funded their campaign and on whom the Zimbabwe economy will again be dependent if MDC can defeat the land reforms.
I don’t think charges and counter-charges of racism are particularly productive here. I think GregM has resolved the ambiguity of his initial response, and I don’t see any evidence that John Tracey’s positions is ‘racist’.
Klaus, using black people as a stick so that you can hit “whitey” is about as racist as you can get.
I put up a post @ 34, which got moderated with some links to v. recent IRIN pieces on the food situation.
Apparently Mugabe is buying up maize from SA before the election (see 34) after stopping NGO feeding programs late last month. Just the latest in a long program of manipulations:
“Archbishop Pius Ncube, the outspoken Roman Catholic prelate of Bulawayo, accused Mugabe of withholding food for electoral purposes, distributing it only in areas where people could be bribed to vote for the ruling ZANU PF party. “They want to control the food and politicize it,” he said. “They’d rather kill people for the sake of power.” (from a March 2008 article)
And this sort of blatant lying via a Despatch Online report 18/6/08:
ZIMBABWEAN vice-president Joyce Mujuru has accused lazy farmers of leasing their land instead of cultivating it, causing food shortages in the country. She also accused the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) of making it difficult for farmers to access seeds and fertilisers.
“We are aware that some of you are having problems like procuring inputs in time. It is because of sanctions imposed by western countries at the behest of opposition party leader Morgan Tsvangirai,” she said. The United States and European Union have imposed targeted sanctions against President Robert Mugabe and approximately 100 members of his ruling elite. With the exception of a weapons embargo, there are no economic sanctions against Zimbabwe.
John Tracey,
I do not see much in your comments that constitutes a critism of the MDC beyond a few aspersions cast on its roots - roots in which you (apparently) carelessly miss the ones in the Zimbabwean trade union movement.
What I do see is an awful lot of rationalising of the murders and genocide committed by th acolytes of Mugabe, such as Chenjerai “Hitler” Hunzvi, Perence “Black Jesus” Shiri and several others.
Perhaps you can torture the truth - but not as well as Shiri tortured the Ndebele people.
This is very new – dissenting statements from long time allies (from NY Times 20/6/08):
“There is every sign that these elections will never be free nor fair,” Mr. Membe (Tanzanian Foreign Minister) told a news conference in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania’s commercial hub, saying he and his colleagues would urge their presidents to “do something urgently so that we can save Zimbabwe,” Reuters reported.
Mr. Membe said the three southern African countries had reached their conclusion on the basis of reports from 211 election observers inside the country, some of whom had seen two people shot dead in front of them on June 17, Reuters said.
Tanzania, Swaziland and Angola are members of the Southern African Development Community and form a committee entrusted with regional peace and security.
And lastly……apparently according to this article white Zimbabwean farmers are being welcomed elsewhere in Africa:
http://www.newfarm.org/international/news/2005/030105/0307/mugabe.shtml
“The demise of Zimbabwe’s farming sector has seen white farmers head for the diaspora.
Deprived of their livelihoods, some have moved into the capital Harare to start new businesses. Others have been welcomed elsewhere in Africa. Hundreds of farmers moved to neighboring Zambia, others to Mozambique, Botswana and Malawi. Others have gone further still to Nigeria.
Some African leaders have encouraged Zimbabwe’s farmers to move, but, fearful of criticism from Mugabe, have done so discreetly. In Nigeria, farmers can claim up to 1,000 hectares of fertile land and borrow over US$1 million at very low rates to get them started in the continent’s most populous nation.
“It’s an attractive offer,” said Gemmill. “The markets up there are enormous and the demand for food huge.”
John Tracey,
You haven’t bothered to say what you think of Joshua Nkomo and his ZAPU party, which was separate from ZANU, though allied in the independence war. And you pass over in silence the massacre Mugabe authorised in the early 1980s. The signs (and actuality) of his despotism were evident VERY EARLY in his rule. How is it that one man can be the best leader of a nation for 30 years? It happens very rarely in real democracies. It happens routinely in dictatorships. As do kleptocracy, economic disaster, starvation, poor planning, propaganda against external and internal “enemies”.
Good on the neighbouring leaders and Foreign Ministers for, at last, speaking out against Mugabe and his sham “electoral” process. Are those black leaders all tools of the imperialists and colonial powers and the vicious white Rhodesian farmers, John?
We don’t know how the MDC will behave when its election is finally confirmed, but weary and starving and beaten Zimbabweans are entitled to choose “ABM” - Anyone But Mugabe. Only when his dictatorial, repressive organisations and practices are dismantled will the true breadth of democratic opinion in Zimbabwe emerge. It may then be that the MDC, having ushered in a taste of freedom and ordinary non-violent politics into the nation, will lose the next election. Who can say? As long as the next election isn’t like the last several, and a vast improvement on the current run-off brawl, all the better for all Zimbabweans.
It’s not unusual for the thuggery of a revolution or independence war to carry over into the new society: others have mentioned some instances. But John, that doesn’t mean we should condone the thuggery and deaths. And please note that this does NOT always happen; it’s not inevitable at all. Zimbabweans have the same rights to eat food and grow crops and have jobs, as Australians do.
John Tracey, in response to my request for a list of Zanu PF’s achievements for Zimbabwe, offers this:
“FDB,
They overthrew British colonial domination. ZANU PF is a coalition of many revolutionary groups that fought to overthrow white minority government.”
They’ve had just shy of 30 years to add to this achievement. Anything else? How long would you be happy to wait for something more? You’ll notice I’ve stopped referring to the bad things they’ve done - you seem to have something of a tin ear for that topic - but really, is that all you’ve got?
John Tracey wrote:
“Ambigulous. majority rule was won in South Africa because the alternative of mass violence was not in the interests of the white minority, not because of any sentiment to democracy. The same reformist white government was crushing black resistance only a few years earlier.”
[this he wrote in response to:
“Adrien wrote: “Your notion seems to be that white people can’t possibly bring democracy into an African country. Why not? Times change.”
Hear, hear! One spectacular example was when a white South African president negotiated with a black prisoner, to bring majority (democratic) rule to their nation.”]
Well John Tracey, the point Adrien made remains. Times did change. As you wrote, the white regime in South Africa, which had been ‘crushing black resistance’, ceded majority rule. So Adrien’s point stands: times change, and occasionally white men “bring democracy”, or “concede democracy under pressure”.
You seem to have a static view of Africa, John Tracey. e.g. Mugabe was a hero in 1980 so we should support his actions in 2008. He has carte blanche, you seem to suggest.
Well, Africa is dynamic. At least that’s what I see when I observe that continent.
As far as I can work out, a dictator only has to use some “anti-imperialist” or “anti-colonial” or “revolutionary” rhetoric, and you’re happy to fall in line and march with him. Whereas some of us prefer to consider actual events, hunger, liberty, daily circumstances, or even - crikey!! - commonsense; as aids to understanding (however partially) what’s going on.
cheerio
John Tracey -
This is such gratuitous over-simplification. Where is your evidence for this assertion that there was no ’sentiment to democracy’? Exactly how did the white minority, faced with mass violence, avoid it simply by converting to democracy or more accurately broadening the franchise? It seems to me that if the sentiment was to some other form of government there would be nothing the white majority could do but flee.
.
Can I just ask: Do you support democracy? Where are you coming from?
Oops. That’s white minority.
Coincidentally, given the direction of this debate, I found an old yellowing piece of newspaper tucked into a book this morning, and this paragraph begged to be parlayed:
“Why did former president F.W. de Klerk decide to move South Africa down the path towards multi-racial elections? Not from the goodness of his heart. It was because the governor of South Africa’s Reserve Bank informed him that financial sanctions had left the country with six weeks of foreign reserves and no prospect of obtaining further credit overseas.”
The author was Bruce Haigh, writing in The Australian in 1997.
While I would love to discuss the benevolence and social justice inclinations of the South African apartheid government, that bastion of freedom and human rights, it seems my comments are being moderated and my last comment has been withheld, so I won’t disturb the delicate sensitivities of the editors on this subject any more.
I have just re-read the MDC program on land reform, economic growth and foreign investment and I stand by everything I have said.
John Tracey, you asked “why is it so outrageous to suggest such a thing might be occurring in Zimbabwe?”
Just another answer: Thomas Mapfumo - The Lion of Zimbabwe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCHErRa-6HA&feature=related
(v. good sound on this youtube clip btw.)
This national hero and teh songwriter of the revolution, whose music inspired black Zimbabweans to rise up against white rule, and whose use of traditional music forms and language was also revolutionary & who shared the celebration stage in 1980 with Bob Marley, was however by 1989 releasing anti-Govt records having become disillusioned with the new Govt by that stage. His 1989 ‘Corruption’ LP marked the turning point.
He was held for a period by the Smith regime causing protests and has likewise been harassed by Mugabe’s regime, in recent years to such an extent that he like millions of other Zimbabweans now lives outside the country. The Govt often bans his music and records being played on State Radio, all to no avail. Such is the influence of artists like Mapfumo, that the Govt organises recordings of pro-Govt propaganda records to try and counter his and other’s influence.
Anyway, google up Thomas Mapfumo and Chimurenga music.
Mbira rules ok!
http://worldmusic.nationalgeographic.com/worldmusic/view/page.basic/genre/content.genre/chimurenga_707
C’arn fair go. John Tracey hasn’t said anything out of order. And this is interesting.
I doubt you’ve been censored John. I’m sure an admin will dig out your last comment.
Any chance it answered or in any way addressed my question?
Well that last one got through but the previous one is still in moderation.
FDB, no the response was to fine earlier.
I don’t know why you are insisting I give a defence of Mugabe, I have already said I accept there is state repression. I repeat, my comments are about MDC. You seem to have a tin ear to discussion of MDC. All I have said is i would vote for ZANU PF as nearly half of Zimbabwe did. Perhaps I should have said i would not vote for MDC but I would suspect that would still see me labled as a NAZI sympathiser.
regarding Mugabe/Nkome, this was a tribal war. British style democracy means there can be only one president for that area defined by lines on maps drawn up by European colonisers. Within these lines on the map are several tribal groups and lands who must come under the authority of the one person at the head of state. This competition for power between different tribal groups, wholly created by the imposed colonial mode of governance, has been a, if not the, major cause of disunity and dysfunction in South Africa also.
The ZAPU massacres, like so many tribal wars and genocides in Africa, is a direct result of tribal competition for control of imposed structure.
In terms of the state repression of the present regime, above and beyond local groupings and citizen militias, it is the framework of European statism, including military, police and prisons, which Mugabe relies on for his government’s greatest crimes. It is the centralised state imposed by the British that allows Mugabe to reign as a state terrorist.
Only by a retribalisation of land and politics in Africa can there be peace. The MDC platform specifically attempte to extinguish communal title to land, traditional agriculture and traditional political structures.
John, if you use the word “moderation”, your comment goes into moderation. It’s to discourage discussions about moderation. I’ve fished them out now.
You agree that he reigns “…as a state terrorist…” yet you would still vote for him? If this is the case are there any crimes that would rule anyone out of order and not worth voting for or is there no line at which you deem anyone unacceptable?
The position you have got to almost beggars belief.
I’m digging and looking for traces of more nuance than that Andrew. Really the most charitable reading of John’s position I can come to is:
“I’ve got some reservations about the MDC’s policies, so I support Mugabe”.
Well look John, here’s the thing. That’s PRECISELY the reverse of what everyone else here is arguing. If you can use that reasoning, so can I, and say:
“I have some reservations about Zanu