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	<title>Comments on: Trolling, not just for the intertubes any more</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: EconoMan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480611</link>
		<dc:creator>EconoMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480611</guid>
		<description>&#039;My&#039; take on the matter. I guess it extends to papers, not just computers.

http://www.xkcd.com/438/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;My&#8217; take on the matter. I guess it extends to papers, not just computers.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.xkcd.com/438/" rel="nofollow">http://www.xkcd.com/438/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480598</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480598</guid>
		<description>The so called vituperation on the net really is nothing more than a return to the 18c hey-day of journalism.One only has to think of the vast range of insults in the early British and American press of that period.(I wouldn&#039;t be game to post similar comments about pollies on LP. They&#039;d be binned.)
On the positive side, there are some posts worthy of Addison, Steele, Lamb ans other great 18c essayists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The so called vituperation on the net really is nothing more than a return to the 18c hey-day of journalism.One only has to think of the vast range of insults in the early British and American press of that period.(I wouldn&#8217;t be game to post similar comments about pollies on LP. They&#8217;d be binned.)<br />
On the positive side, there are some posts worthy of Addison, Steele, Lamb ans other great 18c essayists.</p>
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		<title>By: mister z</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480519</link>
		<dc:creator>mister z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480519</guid>
		<description>I think that one difference is that back in the olden days BC (before choobs), when Op-ed writers were of a mind for trolling, the responses happened over following days on the Letters page -- thus reinforcing the self-importance and mediating role of the newspaper.

Was there ever a time that the editorial pages were used just for the impartial and public-minded musings of the good and great, and never sullied by commercial imperatives to get people hot under the collar and coming back for more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that one difference is that back in the olden days BC (before choobs), when Op-ed writers were of a mind for trolling, the responses happened over following days on the Letters page &#8212; thus reinforcing the self-importance and mediating role of the newspaper.</p>
<p>Was there ever a time that the editorial pages were used just for the impartial and public-minded musings of the good and great, and never sullied by commercial imperatives to get people hot under the collar and coming back for more?</p>
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		<title>By: mick</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480493</link>
		<dc:creator>mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480493</guid>
		<description>Last December I spent a week in Seattle staying with a well known science blogger friend of mine. One day he was driving me aroundshowing me the sites when he asked, &quot;mick, what lives under a bridge?&quot;. Low and behold we drove under a bridge and there was a big-assed sculpture of a troll by the side of the road.

Apparently I was the first person who had given him the right answer. I wonder why....

Anyway, back on topic. Didn&#039;t journos always engage in troll-like behaviour. I tend to have the point of view that the only difference between opinion piece writers and bloggers is who you know. 

Certainly, it seems to be the case that most political commentators in Australia either provide the same level of wiki/google based research as most bloggers or they survive off the scraps of information provided by insiders who want to tactically leak stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last December I spent a week in Seattle staying with a well known science blogger friend of mine. One day he was driving me aroundshowing me the sites when he asked, &#8220;mick, what lives under a bridge?&#8221;. Low and behold we drove under a bridge and there was a big-assed sculpture of a troll by the side of the road.</p>
<p>Apparently I was the first person who had given him the right answer. I wonder why&#8230;.</p>
<p>Anyway, back on topic. Didn&#8217;t journos always engage in troll-like behaviour. I tend to have the point of view that the only difference between opinion piece writers and bloggers is who you know. </p>
<p>Certainly, it seems to be the case that most political commentators in Australia either provide the same level of wiki/google based research as most bloggers or they survive off the scraps of information provided by insiders who want to tactically leak stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480402</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480402</guid>
		<description>dylwah @ 11,
Some of the American writers for the lead up to the American Revolution weern&#039;t too bad, either. But then again, some (not all) of them were trying to start a war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dylwah @ 11,<br />
Some of the American writers for the lead up to the American Revolution weern&#8217;t too bad, either. But then again, some (not all) of them were trying to start a war.</p>
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		<title>By: dylwah</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480393</link>
		<dc:creator>dylwah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480393</guid>
		<description>thanks for the posts Kim.  they got me thinking about the pamphleteers of 1600&#039;s england,  gee they used some nasty language, but i&#039;m not sure that they qualify as trolls as they are defined here. 

these trolls remind me most of some of the church sermons that i saw as a kid and some of teh evangelicals i made myself check out when i was in the US.  of course the trolls are generally more vulger than anything i ever saw from a pulpit, some of the soapbox speechifiers fit the bill more closely.  

I sometimes think that trolling on the inter tubes has a lot to do with the troll&#039;s mourning for Authority.  it is as though the troll is so devestated that not everyone genuflects as the feet of their guru that they must up the volume.  They also remind me of those desert lizards with the frills that make them look three times larger than they are.  you can see some of them up the ante as their arguments get deconstructed.

off the intertubes it is trolling for Authority, be it god, the flying wostershire sause monster or the legacy of Prescott Bush.  My mum the Lev Bronstein tragic kept a collection of the lies that Stalin propagated about him for a long time.  that is the earliest eg of trolling as Danah Boyd seems to construct it that i can think of, without of course the profit motive, unless you accept the soviet empire as profit enough.  it had it all; the constant repatition of &#039;facts&#039;, the refferences to shadowy conspiracies, growing stridency, a distinct lack of respect and the construction and refferal to an authority that is unquestionable. 

is there a soviet equivalent to Godwin&#039;s law, and have i broken it? a quick google shows nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the posts Kim.  they got me thinking about the pamphleteers of 1600&#8217;s england,  gee they used some nasty language, but i&#8217;m not sure that they qualify as trolls as they are defined here. </p>
<p>these trolls remind me most of some of the church sermons that i saw as a kid and some of teh evangelicals i made myself check out when i was in the US.  of course the trolls are generally more vulger than anything i ever saw from a pulpit, some of the soapbox speechifiers fit the bill more closely.  </p>
<p>I sometimes think that trolling on the inter tubes has a lot to do with the troll&#8217;s mourning for Authority.  it is as though the troll is so devestated that not everyone genuflects as the feet of their guru that they must up the volume.  They also remind me of those desert lizards with the frills that make them look three times larger than they are.  you can see some of them up the ante as their arguments get deconstructed.</p>
<p>off the intertubes it is trolling for Authority, be it god, the flying wostershire sause monster or the legacy of Prescott Bush.  My mum the Lev Bronstein tragic kept a collection of the lies that Stalin propagated about him for a long time.  that is the earliest eg of trolling as Danah Boyd seems to construct it that i can think of, without of course the profit motive, unless you accept the soviet empire as profit enough.  it had it all; the constant repatition of &#8216;facts&#8217;, the refferences to shadowy conspiracies, growing stridency, a distinct lack of respect and the construction and refferal to an authority that is unquestionable. </p>
<p>is there a soviet equivalent to Godwin&#8217;s law, and have i broken it? a quick google shows nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: nasking</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480338</link>
		<dc:creator>nasking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480338</guid>
		<description>&quot;Isn’t the “attack dog” style of column (and or “blog”) favoured by News Limited really just one almighty troll, designed to garner traffic and thus revenue? And isn’t danah boyd on to something when she argues this phenomenon is much bigger than the internets?&quot;

SPOT ON...this Burchell sounds like a hand puppet. But who is making his mouth move? Perhaps the punch-drunk? Those who dominated the ring...but once some effective political &amp; media-related Southpaws come along they can&#039;t stand up to the heat, except by rigging the match perhaps? Or was it always rigged?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Isn’t the “attack dog” style of column (and or “blog”) favoured by News Limited really just one almighty troll, designed to garner traffic and thus revenue? And isn’t danah boyd on to something when she argues this phenomenon is much bigger than the internets?&#8221;</p>
<p>SPOT ON&#8230;this Burchell sounds like a hand puppet. But who is making his mouth move? Perhaps the punch-drunk? Those who dominated the ring&#8230;but once some effective political &amp; media-related Southpaws come along they can&#8217;t stand up to the heat, except by rigging the match perhaps? Or was it always rigged?</p>
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		<title>By: Darlene</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480315</link>
		<dc:creator>Darlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480315</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d agree with the culture war analysis, but I would disagree that Paglia is an anti-feminist. Such a reading would suggest that feminism isn&#039;t a very broad and often very conflict-ridden creature. Many of those who claim support for her would be appalled by her rapidly pro-sex, pro-choice, pro-porn views etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree with the culture war analysis, but I would disagree that Paglia is an anti-feminist. Such a reading would suggest that feminism isn&#8217;t a very broad and often very conflict-ridden creature. Many of those who claim support for her would be appalled by her rapidly pro-sex, pro-choice, pro-porn views etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Leinad</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480314</link>
		<dc:creator>Leinad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480314</guid>
		<description>Mark: So she&#039;s like the crocodile to the Culture War velociraptors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark: So she&#8217;s like the crocodile to the Culture War velociraptors?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480312</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480312</guid>
		<description>Possibly one of the earliest examples of the &quot;attack writer&quot; when the culture wars were still a new thing, Helen, I&#039;d suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possibly one of the earliest examples of the &#8220;attack writer&#8221; when the culture wars were still a new thing, Helen, I&#8217;d suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480311</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480311</guid>
		<description>Paul, that&#039;s quite consistent. CP is a vituperative antifeminist herself, as well as an excellent example of the kind of writer Kim is talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, that&#8217;s quite consistent. CP is a vituperative antifeminist herself, as well as an excellent example of the kind of writer Kim is talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480285</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480285</guid>
		<description>Leinad,
I actually know somebody like the mysoginist. Nearly 40 years after The Female Eunuch he still thinks the world is coming to an end because of the influence of feminism. I haven&#039;t seen him for years. Interestingly, he does like Camille Paglia. (So do I, but probably for her literary rather than her social criticism.Though I did find the opening chapter of The Sexual Personae - is the title right - extremely funny.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leinad,<br />
I actually know somebody like the mysoginist. Nearly 40 years after The Female Eunuch he still thinks the world is coming to an end because of the influence of feminism. I haven&#8217;t seen him for years. Interestingly, he does like Camille Paglia. (So do I, but probably for her literary rather than her social criticism.Though I did find the opening chapter of The Sexual Personae &#8211; is the title right &#8211; extremely funny.)</p>
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		<title>By: Leinad</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480204</link>
		<dc:creator>Leinad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480204</guid>
		<description>Skepticlawyer: The first link is more the &#039;in real life&#039; bit. Though wether or not Dr. Phil counts as real life is debatable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skepticlawyer: The first link is more the &#8216;in real life&#8217; bit. Though wether or not Dr. Phil counts as real life is debatable.</p>
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		<title>By: laura</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480200</link>
		<dc:creator>laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480200</guid>
		<description>Yes, Trolling is exactly what it is - the op-ed pages sometimes feel like one big cobbled stone bridge.  

It&#039;s not just the ex-GG that&#039;s guilty though, nor even Murdoch papers.   
A commenter at my blog recently pointed this out w/r/t Jim Schembri&#039;s distinguished and measured remarks about jazz.  Catherine Deveny at The Age is another one.  They don&#039;t specifically bait bloggers but the op-ed format is obviously viewed as an opportunity, nay an obligation, to be as provocative as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Trolling is exactly what it is &#8211; the op-ed pages sometimes feel like one big cobbled stone bridge.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just the ex-GG that&#8217;s guilty though, nor even Murdoch papers.<br />
A commenter at my blog recently pointed this out w/r/t Jim Schembri&#8217;s distinguished and measured remarks about jazz.  Catherine Deveny at The Age is another one.  They don&#8217;t specifically bait bloggers but the op-ed format is obviously viewed as an opportunity, nay an obligation, to be as provocative as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480190</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480190</guid>
		<description>Just followed your link, Leinad. I think that&#039;s what you&#039;d call a &#039;trollblog&#039;. If you read it and get pissed off, he&#039;ll be happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just followed your link, Leinad. I think that&#8217;s what you&#8217;d call a &#8216;trollblog&#8217;. If you read it and get pissed off, he&#8217;ll be happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Leinad</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/comment-page-1/#comment-480180</link>
		<dc:creator>Leinad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/06/23/trolling-not-just-for-the-intertubes-any-more/#comment-480180</guid>
		<description>Well there&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=33721&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;guy&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well there&#8217;s <a href="http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=33721" rel="nofollow">this</a> <a href="http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/" rel="nofollow">guy</a>.</p>
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