Comments on: Read it and weep

By: Rayedish

Rayedish — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:18:58 +0000

What Dr S said. I think that the mix is terrific here and that you good people are doing a great job.

By: danny

danny — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:58:46 +0000

(ooops)… obscene distance between winners and losers in this franken-market/culture. Reminds me of the archetypal scene where the triumphant Achilles drags Hector’s lifeless body around in view of the women of Troy, just to rub it in.

Societies which the Gods will destroy they first make mad? At least it explains big brother.

By: danny

danny — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:48:55 +0000

“Lordy, let’s not have any actual structural analysis of why such situations might arise.” … damn shame that’s exactly what didn’t happen.
I’d love to hear some perspicacious opinion about how this extreme of human behaviour can exist in a continuum with human behaviour that allows someone to have a spare $85million to plonk doen on a square metre of canvas of a garden scene ( Monet’s water lilies this wek at auction).
It’s something about the obscedistance between

By: Pollytickedoff

Pollytickedoff — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:10:58 +0000

“The only place you see all of us are in the threads we are all competent to engage with, the fluff and culture rather than politics and science.”

Yep. Lots of non-fluff I read but never comment on because I don’t have the knowledge or expertise.

By: Klaus K

Klaus K — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:09:16 +0000

Thanks for the link, sc. I’m not sure why you’re now responding to an argument I am not trying to make, but I do appreciate the input. My challenge is to Con E Little, and as it turns out the phenomenon being referred to is supposed to be undocumentable. My question is, if that is that case, how do we know what is going on when it comes to inconsistent treatment between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians? Anecdotes are not sufficient. Surely there is research in social work to support the argument. I believe left-liberal racism exists but I don’t know how wide-spread it’s effects are as compared to simple under-resourcing. I’ve only scanned the document that sc has provided, and I don’t see anywhere where this phenomenon is documented there.

By: Dr S

Dr S — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:41:24 +0000

Kim - I hope you are not in a despairing mood about your blog. The fluff gets more people commenting but I think that needs to be in context, particularly the quality of the responses that come out of the woodwork on the hard stuff. The sudden appearance of an unexpected professor of climate change under his real name on a recent thread comes to mind. Similar levels of expertise appear with more anonymity on a regular basis. The chances of me commenting on an East Timor thread when the international relations academics are in full flight or Robert Merkel’s “engineering for climate” post is minimal. I also might not read them but, most importantly, they are there. Having a blog where informed opinion is the rule rather than exception is remarkable. You cannot have that level of specialist participation without alienating some of your readership, some of the time. The only place you see all of us are in the threads we are all competent to engage with, the fluff and culture rather than politics and science.

Light entertainment as unifying force. The culture and MSM stuff is akin to the University caf. Scientists and sociologists gossiping.

By: sublimecowgirl

sublimecowgirl — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:19:58 +0000

Klaus - do take a look at this short summary on incidence and prevalance, and factors affecting this here at the Australian Institute of Family Studies (from 2000)

http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/pubs/sheets/rs10/rs10.html

WOuld be very interested to hear your reflections on this sobering data.

By: Con E Little

Con E Little — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:16:07 +0000

Klaus K,

You must be incredibly naive if you think anyone is going to put in a policy document the kind of left-liberal racism the sc has referred to. This kind of racism is actually being reinforced in social worker training, at least at certain institutions, if I’m to believe what I’ve been told by a couple of recent social worker graduates. As I’m particularly interested in what you believe so I’ll leave it at that. My opinion is based on 25 years of living with a social worker whose mum was also a social worker and having numerous social worker friends.

But to reiterate, if you have a genuine interest in these matters you’ll get off your bum and research them rather than expecting me to hand feed you.

By: Klaus K

Klaus K — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:22 +0000

I do believe you, sw, but I’m also conscious that Con E Little has made a lot of assertions, and while some things can’t really be backed up with documentation, other things can and frequently are.

By: Klaus K

Klaus K — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:56:58 +0000

By: sublimecowgirl

sublimecowgirl — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:47:02 +0000

Klaus, i’ve related this story a few times before, but in trying to process a visit to a community where an elder woman ‘begged’ me to take her grandchildren away with me to ’save them’, i was told by my supervisor( in the then Dept of families), as a young sw in the early nineties, that if we applied the same standards in community x (an hours drive away) as we applied to neglect and abuse notifications in the city where we worked, we wouldn’t have the resources (staff and foster carer’s) to respond, and even if we did, the dept would be politically crucified.
THings have improved substantially since then; the whole dept was abolished a replaced for a start; believe me, there has been times when political and ideological issues have impacted child protection practices on the ground.

By: Klaus K

Klaus K — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:22:24 +0000

So you’re saying the relevant information that backs up your assertions isn’t available except by word of mouth?

By: Con E Little

Con E Little — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:01:48 +0000

Klaus,

If you have a genuine interest in these issues I suggest you speak to social workers who have experience working in indigenous communities.

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:51:09 +0000

Nobody could spell before Dr J’s dictionary and anyone who has to deal with English has a good excuse.

By: Darlene

Darlene — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:33:22 +0000

Sorry Howard, reading a whole thread can be time-consuming. I’m not sure I put my comments down as soon as possible (what time did you make your comment?).

Incidentally, I don’t know where the whole TEH thing came from. Perhaps someone can let me know. I can spell either but it’s because I’m not the smartest spark on the thing oh bob.

By: Howard C

Howard C — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:23:08 +0000

I thought I clarified myself Darlene, but obviously some people are just too angry after they read a post and just have to put their comments down in teh comment section as soon as possible.

(Gez, that was fun! I can misspell as well!)

By: Darlene

Darlene — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:18:12 +0000

“The left like movies with a message, music that makes you think, comedians who made social comments. Other people like movies that make you thrill, music that makes you dance, and comedians who make you laugh.”

What bunk, what a way to stereotype dude. The left or is that TEH LFET ain’t no uniform group (it’s like saying all members of the right like to dress up in kinky gear and get whipped by someone resembling their mother). I like good movies, funny movies, stupid movies, Disney cartoons, arty movies, Judd Apatow movies, Jerry Lewis movies etc etc.

As what people want to see on blogs, well, there’s no one answer. I don’t think the Internet (or the INWETERWB) is the best place for long long posts or comments.

By: Klaus K

Klaus K — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:08:58 +0000

So is this a formal or informal practice on the part of social workers? If a ‘different metric’ is used, is it policy, or is it just something that these social workers do because they think indigenous families ought to be assessed differently? What I’m asking for is some evidence to give solidity to your vague claims. Also, could we be specific about where you’re talking about. You mention the Northern Territory intervention, so is it NT or federal policy you’re referring to? Is that the same as how indigenous families in Kempsey, NSW (or the like) are treated? Referring to something as enormous as ‘The Age’ - ie a whole newspaper - is not sufficient.

To return to your original argument:

“Compare life-expectancy; murder; rape; suicide; child abuse and neglect; and rates of imprisonment stats in the most disadvantaged suburb in Adelaide with remote indigenous communities and you’ll have your answer.”

Has this comparison been made, or are you merely assuming what the results of such a comparison might be? Genuine question. Also, which remote indigenous community? They aren’t all monotonously the same.

By: Con E Little

Con E Little — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:35:07 +0000

OK then wise guy, why do you think policy threads attract less views and comments?

As to your second point, I have a number of social workers in the family. I’ve discussed the issue with both them and their social worker friends. Chew the ear of a social worker who has worked with indigenous folk yourself if you don’t believe me. The very same point has also been made in “The Age” prior to the federal intervention in indigenous communities.

By: Klaus K

Klaus K — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:12:53 +0000

“Moreover in respect of child abuse and neglect, as any insider will readily tell you, indigenous families are judged by a different metric than non-indigenous families.”

Another area where you appear to be very knowledgeable. Do I detect a pattern?