I can only hope these last few weeks of publically exposed pain are a watershed and the catholic church has a change in heart.

I can only endorse Ambi’s thoughts and hope you both take care.

You and your mother and your sister are in our thoughts. Your sister’s struggle and pain must have been so hard.

take care.

I was abused, I carry that pain. I saw your interviews on the internet, and I wanted to express my deepest sadness for what happened to your family. And I would like to thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for doing what you do. Too many people are silent, and the burden on those like yourself is too great. But I think that is changing. Please believe that.

The pain is too heavy for you to carry. Please let us carry it with you. Please trust that we are there with you. I do what I can, in my own way, to try to make a positive change to the world. It’s not much, when you look at the big picture. But please remember that I and people like me are also here with you.

If the CEO of (say) BHP was given convincing evidence that their staff were molesting children, and proceeded to deny there was a problem, to keep it under wraps with internal enquiries, and to transfer the staff somewhere else in the company to get them away from attention, that would make them a clear-cut accessory to crime.

I know that “benefit of clergy” used to exempt priests from secular law, but this is the 21st century, not the 15th.

It’s very far from being vigilantism to have legitimate concerns about known offenders residing or working near a school. In this instance, he was in the school grounds at the instance of those who run the school. I think that’s a worry.

As long as he’s accompanied by someone else (and none of his victims attend the school) then I don’t see the problem if he is of the type of abuser who befriends children before abusing them (rather than the much rarer kidnap stranger type). People (quite understandably) get much more concerned about the pedophile they know about when they really need to be more concerned about the ones living in the community they don’t know about and have yet to be caught.

The Catholic view is that the morality of the minister of the sacraments has no effect on the efficacy of those sacraments because they work according to God’s promises.

Which puts the church in the strange position of refusing the sacraments to openly gay people (Pell in Melbourne) whilst allowing gay priests (most of the molestation appears to be homosexual) to administer them.

There was a report last week in Brisbane of a priest who’d done a year’s gaol for multiple offences of sexual assault saying an early mass at the Marist Bros’ chapel on a regular basis. The Marist Bros pointed out - in their defence as parents at the adjacent school were upset - that the priest in question couldn’t see the school swimming pool from the chapel window. Aarrgghhh!

Is what they did so bad? As long as he doesn’t have contact with children and is supervised near the school, then if saying mass is something that helps reform him and not reoffend (and they claimed it helped him), then why not allow it? It may be easier for an organisation to shun offenders, but once they have served their time in prison they do have to live somewhere.

It has been shown that if you remove community support from child abusers then they are more likely to reoffend. Or we could try the other approach of running them out of every place they try to live in, isolate them from society and assemble lynch mobs outside their homes.

tigtog, I don’t think it’s so much about needing to maintain the limited number of priests - it’s more a complete reflexive defence of the institution above all else shaped by a very totalising institutional culture.

As to whether priests who have committed crimes can validly celebrate mass, the answer is yes. The Donatist heresy in 4th century Roman Africa - which St Augustine was at great pains to attack - held that only priests who had a pure life could validly function as such. The Catholic view is that the morality of the minister of the sacraments has no effect on the efficacy of those sacraments because they work according to God’s promises. What is required is the “correct intention” - that is to say, to intend to do what the Church does in celebrating mass, performing a baptism, etc. Catholic priests, incidentally, can’t really be “defrocked” because ordination is a sacrament which confers an “indelible mark on the soul”. They can be refused permission to function as priests, but they’re still priests.

There was a report last week in Brisbane of a priest who’d done a year’s gaol for multiple offences of sexual assault saying an early mass at the Marist Bros’ chapel on a regular basis. The Marist Bros pointed out - in their defence as parents at the adjacent school were upset - that the priest in question couldn’t see the school swimming pool from the chapel window. Aarrgghhh!

a good program on ABC radio, and interesting that Anne Henderson and Morag Fraser described so bluntly how everday Catholics in Australia simply rejected that encyclical.

Last night I was struck (on Q&A) how Angela Shanahan had a similarly sharp attitude towards recent faults of the RC hierarchy, in not responding humanely to real (or alleged) victims of sexual abuse by priests. She said that the least Pope Benedict could do with the bereved father of Emma Foster was to kneel before him. Just for starters.

When we hear pronouncements from Cardinals & Bishops, it’s too easy (I think) to forget that many Church members may be feeling similar repugnance, to that which we feel.

Angela Shanahan’s words seemed closer to the message of the Nazarene teacher Jesus, than those from some other Aussie Catholics in recent weeks.

But I’m not an expert.

I’d also like to see a few more questions asked about the Church’s stance on family planning, seeing that it’s the 40th anniversary of the Papal Encyclical Humanae Vitae next week:

Next week, July 25th, marks the 40th anniversary of the single greatest catastrophe to befall the Catholic church since the Reformation, when Pope Paul VI published his encyclical banning the pill, Humanae Vitae, leading to a theological Stalingrad from which the church has been unable to recover.

The overwhelming majority of Catholics have always rejected the basic principles about sexuality which the encyclical lays out, that sex should only take place within marriage, and that it should always be open to the procreation of children, and defending the encyclical has come at great cost. In fact it has contributed to the collapse of the sacrament of confession, the collapse of the priesthood, and the purging of a brilliant generation of liberal theologians.

But above all, Humanae Vitae led to the collapse of the very papal authority it was designed to defend, because everybody knew that the Pope had been talked into rejecting the overwhelming majority advice of his own papal advisory commission. [Source: ABC Radio Transcript]

- they simply don’t feel that they can afford to lose a man sanctified to perform Mass in the current situation.

I dunno Tigtog, is a sexual predator really truly sanctified to perform Mass? Particularly since he has broken his vow of celibacy. I would have thought God would have a thing or two to say about it.
And speaking of dwelling on old wounds: doesn’t that cross they insist on carting around with them have something to do with ancient wounds.

Then this ‘bishop’ Anthony Fisher comes out with his comments. He’s not fit to hold any public office, no matter how the spin doctors try to ‘fix’ his image.
It’s all about the root of all evil: money, or rather the illusion of money. Can you imagine the consequences for The Vatican if they apologise, it’ll cost them……

The current clergy involved have their heads up their asses and have lost all credibilty by showing more interest in politics than their flock, at least for me.

I would suggest they better drink tea with their ‘illuminati’ & Bilderberger friends……….

I know that most priests are honest, well intended & hardworking people, people like Father Reilly, Mother Theresa & numerous more anonymus priests, who are not in it for a carreer in the Vatican or the limelight but are trying to be better people & lead by example.

I still retain my strong faith in the God the Creator, but the worldly Church? Thanks but no thanks, I’d rather go to the circus, it’s more entertaining.

We should not have two justice systems in the country, and bypassing the government system to use a church run one makes as much sense as the indigenous people, islamic people or jewish people having their own legal system in Australia.

The Catholic church has clearly had a lot of problems in the past and is still struggling with the results of it now. And comments like the bishop made demonstrate they still have a long way to go.

I’m still rather skeptical that a shortage of priests has been a reason to cover up, but I doubt there is any way to prove that theory right or wrong. As a person who is not Catholic, I don’t feel its really appropriate for non Catholics to tell them how to run their church beyond legal requirements (eg they should accept female priests). I think its up to people within the church to make those changes or leave if they can’t - plenty of religions to choose from. Its not like the pope can any longer order your execution if you decide to start a breakaway church.

joe2 - agreed that a big part of WYD is a recruitment exercise - they have been very open about it - the world today program had interviews with church members saying they were actively looking for new nuns and priests. And young people going through the expo were saying they were checking out what possibilities there are for them.

[THE Catholic Church should scrap its program to investigate sex abuse within the church because victims have been denied justice, a maverick Sydney priest says.

Father Chris Riley, who heads Youth Off The Streets, a Sydney welfare service that assists homeless, drug addicted and abused young people, said the Towards Healing program hurt the church’s credibility and meant victims often did not have their day in court.

He told the Nine Network tonight that any family confronted with sexual abuse should go straight to the police and have the matter dealt with in court.

“Towards Healing, to me, I have to say, is a joke,” he said.

“The perpetrator is the only winner there because often they are not charged, because it (the case) is settled.

“This is obscene, settling those sort of cases behind closed doors,” Father Riley said.

“It should be out in the court, and then if they (victims) want to deal with the church, we then do that after the person is … found guilty, and my position is, jailed for a long time.

“Then, if they want to go to the church, let’s heal them then, but get justice first.”

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24036050-5005361,00.html

It is getting very difficult to find educated folks, in affluent countries, who are prepared to pretend they can just sit on the ol’ sex urge.