Comments on: You’re the minister now, Bob

By: unknown

unknown — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:06:37 +0000

spot on Chookie
It’s a cultural nightmare in the AFP.
Anyone with the slightest sense of justice left Immigration long ago.

By: unknown

unknown — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:40:00 +0000

The knowledge is commercial in confidence to the persons (multiple) who told me, and those people are in private industry and have no security clearance ie: it’s not a real secret; they’d just prefer you don’t know.
The polite way of putting it is that they like to test their apparatus on a suitably defended target - I’m not sure ASIO appreciated being tested on home soil.
Take a look at the lines of sight between AFP property and ASIO in Canberra and check out the infrastructure.
I’ve no motivation for exposure - I’d just prefer a few more people had their eyes opened for them.
If someone really wanted to know, and have evidence, a reasonably simple FOI claim, or even less, would reveal the information.

By: Chookie

Chookie — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:28:15 +0000

Organisations tend to mimic the strengths and weaknesses of their leaders after a while, and though it would be immensely satisfying to see Keelty booted from the AFP, that wouldn’t remove the flaws which he has added to its culture. The Rudd government has decided not to do a night of the long knives on the public service; the road they have chosen is the slower and harder, but more thorough road of change by altering the programmes that public servants administer (it must be interesting working in Immigration right now!).

Those who don’t have hearts or minds to be changed will eventually get fed up and leave, unless they are silly enough to allow themselves to be pilloried in an inquiry. I’m guessing that McDebus will wait till the Clarke Inquiry runs its course, at which point there will be “no option” etc etc. Why force the issue now when the course of the inquiry is likely to cause Keelty more suffering? (Cf Turnbull waiting for Nelson to self-immolate.)

By: Robert Merkel

Robert Merkel — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:20:30 +0000

Unknown: WRT the claim that the AFP and ASIO are surveilling each other, that’s a fairly extraordinary claim, and would require fairly extraordinary evidence to back it up.

By: unknown

unknown — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 05:44:56 +0000

http://news.theage.com.au/national/afp-not-able-to-release-haneef-info-20080804-3po2.html

Can’t release the information because it’s not theirs to release is the explanation.

Has anyone even asked?
Did any of the reporter ask if this permission had been requested?
The UK authorities have been more forthcoming than the ALP thus far - I’d rather hear a denial from their own mouths, or the submission be made directly from them, instead of the 3rd party AFP thanks very much.

Robert McLelland - make it happen or explain why not. Keelty is digging the country in to a hole, but you’re responsible.

By: unknown

unknown — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:47:59 +0000

Ydntk

The fact that each organisation applies the full raft of electronic intelligence and counter-intelligence measures against each other should also be known more widely.
The AFP is apparently in the business of creating enemies these days.

By: Paul Burns

Paul Burns — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:22:52 +0000

Socialist Alliance?

By: You don't need to know

You don't need to know — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:10:51 +0000

I think all of you should be aware. ASIO and the AFP have very little like for each other, if any. The writing was on the wall at the beginning. ASIO would have been very unhappy if he was a terror suspect, because would have wanted to know what his network in Australia was. But good old Keelty comes steaming in on a white donkey and makes an ass out of himself….again. Any other member of the AFP would have been dismissed by now for the conduct Keelty has been exhibiting.

Lets just say I have it on good authority Keelty is going to move into politics when his contract is up. Guess which party!

By: Paul Burns

Paul Burns — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:00:04 +0000

Agree absolutely, Robert. (Was using the term secutity services as a kind of descriptive shorthand.)

By: Robert Merkel

Robert Merkel — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 12:15:59 +0000

I don’t like “security services” either. They are, at best, a necessary evil. whose role and resources should be tightly circumscribed. The more resources they receive, the more “security threats” they will find, whether they really exist or not.

By: Paul Burns

Paul Burns — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 07:25:27 +0000

Agree with you about the Rudd Government, Robert. Is for the rest I suppose being a slightly paranoid old leftie so fae as the security services go is hard to shake off.

By: Robert Merkel

Robert Merkel — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:37:50 +0000

Paul: if Keelty really has a good reason (other than career self-preservation) why the AFP can’t release an unclassified version of its submission to the Clarke inquiry, all he has to do is pick up the phone and give McLelland a call, or vice versa. The fact that they seem to be communicating through the press would suggest that there is something seriously wrong with their working relationship.

As regards the AFP destabilizing the government, I doubt it - or, at least, I doubt it would happen in the same way it did back during the Cold War. There’s no national security pretext for spying on left-wing politicians any more, and, frankly, the Rudd cabinet hardly rates as left wing.

By: Paul Burns

Paul Burns — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:56:23 +0000

Surely Bob wouldn’t go against Keelty’s advice? (I don’t know whether to put a smile in here or not, as this query is not entirely in jest oir sarcastic.)
But here’s a question which is completely serious.Is it possible the Labor Government is a lirrle fearful, regardless of McLelland’s instruction, that our security services might, just might engage in destabilising leaks if Labor got too offside with them? After all, similar things happened in the past. Like the Petrov Affair, spyting on Labot politicians etc.
Could this be yet another unholy legacy from the Howard years that Rudd’s ignoring?

By: onimod

onimod — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:21:19 +0000

Believe me - the AFP now wields an awful lot of power.
They certainly see themselves as the peak authority in almost all areas.
I’m sure if you ask them they’ll happily tell you about their superiority to ASIO.
With the ability to spy, and without the proper oversight, comes paranoia.
Power, paranoia and improper oversight has created a very very dangerous organisation. There isn’t enough political capital in putting the house in order at present.
Bring on the re-principling of the FOI legislation I say.

By: joe2

joe2 — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:40:07 +0000

“Yesterday, former Howard government immigration minister Kevin Andrews said he did not receive any advice from ASIO about Dr Haneef.”

Might we presume, also, that Andrews received no advice from the Queensland police who also concluded that Haneef had no case to answer either?

Keelty should be sacked and it is hard to see why Andrews be ever allowed to run even a chook raffle.