<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.3" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Enlightenment is in danger! (from its false friends)</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-494399</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 10:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-494399</guid>
		<description>(1) I'd argue that it's the folk at Planet Janet et al who are anti-enlightenment.  After all, she and her ilk have been deriding the near-unanimous empirical observations and conclusions of the scientific community, and supportive of populist politicians who've been turning independent academia into businesses that sign certificates like pre-Lutheran indulgences.  If that ain't anti-enlightenment, what is?

(2) On postmodernism
As a skeptic of much "postmodernism", I point to the http://xkcd.com/451/ entitled "Imposter"

Here's the text version (courtesy http://www.ohnorobot.com/archive.pl?comic=56&#38;show=2&#38;page=15)

My Hobby: Sitting down with grad students and timing how long it takes them to figure out that I'm not actually an expert in their field.
Engineering: / Students: Our big problem is heat dissipation / Me: Have you tried logarithms? / 48 seconds
Linguistics: / Me: Ah, so does this Finno-ugric family include, say, Klingon? / 63 Seconds
Sociology: / Me: Yeah, my latest work is on ranking people from best to worst. / 4 Minutes
Literary Criticism: / Me: You see, the deconstruction is inextricable from not only the text, but also the self. / Eight papers and two books and they haven't caught on.
{{Alt/title text: If you think this is too hard on literary criticism, read the Wikipedia article on deconstruction.}}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(1) I&#8217;d argue that it&#8217;s the folk at Planet Janet et al who are anti-enlightenment.  After all, she and her ilk have been deriding the near-unanimous empirical observations and conclusions of the scientific community, and supportive of populist politicians who&#8217;ve been turning independent academia into businesses that sign certificates like pre-Lutheran indulgences.  If that ain&#8217;t anti-enlightenment, what is?</p>
<p>(2) On postmodernism<br />
As a skeptic of much &#8220;postmodernism&#8221;, I point to the <a href="http://xkcd.com/451/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/451/</a> entitled &#8220;Imposter&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the text version (courtesy <a href="http://www.ohnorobot.com/archive.pl?comic=56&amp;show=2&amp;page=15" rel="nofollow">http://www.ohnorobot.com/archive.pl?comic=56&amp;show=2&amp;page=15</a>)</p>
<p>My Hobby: Sitting down with grad students and timing how long it takes them to figure out that I&#8217;m not actually an expert in their field.<br />
Engineering: / Students: Our big problem is heat dissipation / Me: Have you tried logarithms? / 48 seconds<br />
Linguistics: / Me: Ah, so does this Finno-ugric family include, say, Klingon? / 63 Seconds<br />
Sociology: / Me: Yeah, my latest work is on ranking people from best to worst. / 4 Minutes<br />
Literary Criticism: / Me: You see, the deconstruction is inextricable from not only the text, but also the self. / Eight papers and two books and they haven&#8217;t caught on.<br />
{{Alt/title text: If you think this is too hard on literary criticism, read the Wikipedia article on deconstruction.}}</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: professor rat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493905</link>
		<dc:creator>professor rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493905</guid>
		<description>As the Right likes to attack democratic socialism by conflating it with a) Marxism and b) post-modernism may I suggest one response be for some be to caricature them as a 'Lunar Right' which is virtually a) Pauline Hanson style National Socialism and/or b) lunatic Libertarianism trying to bring back slavery - and both of these racist colonialist ideologies that would take us all back to the Dark Ages.

Turn about is fair play...

Also , though I would agree PoMo is now thankfully dead or dying, it was still alive and kicking around five years ago. I have the attacks on anarchism and anarchists on disk to prove it. Available by request.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the Right likes to attack democratic socialism by conflating it with a) Marxism and b) post-modernism may I suggest one response be for some be to caricature them as a &#8216;Lunar Right&#8217; which is virtually a) Pauline Hanson style National Socialism and/or b) lunatic Libertarianism trying to bring back slavery - and both of these racist colonialist ideologies that would take us all back to the Dark Ages.</p>
<p>Turn about is fair play&#8230;</p>
<p>Also , though I would agree PoMo is now thankfully dead or dying, it was still alive and kicking around five years ago. I have the attacks on anarchism and anarchists on disk to prove it. Available by request.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493828</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 07:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493828</guid>
		<description>David,

there was a letter in "Nature" a few years ago which argued that Wittgenstein was seriously unhinged, and that his "profundities" arose from a mental illness: his inability to speak clearly (or write?) was a symptom of major illness rather than brilliance. With some of these blokes, how would you know??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>there was a letter in &#8220;Nature&#8221; a few years ago which argued that Wittgenstein was seriously unhinged, and that his &#8220;profundities&#8221; arose from a mental illness: his inability to speak clearly (or write?) was a symptom of major illness rather than brilliance. With some of these blokes, how would you know??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493824</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493824</guid>
		<description>I read somewhere (a recent biography of Goedel, I think) that Wittgenstein basically ruined Bertrand Russell as a philosopher. Russell reckoned he couldn't understand Wittgenstein, but that it all sounded profound. (The little I've read struck me as being incoherent rather than profound, but that might just be me.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read somewhere (a recent biography of Goedel, I think) that Wittgenstein basically ruined Bertrand Russell as a philosopher. Russell reckoned he couldn&#8217;t understand Wittgenstein, but that it all sounded profound. (The little I&#8217;ve read struck me as being incoherent rather than profound, but that might just be me.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: klaus k</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493816</link>
		<dc:creator>klaus k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493816</guid>
		<description>"except for the inevitable instances when political vendettas start becoming pursued upon the academic battleground."

Which happens often enough. It's amazing how many scholarly points of disagreement can be found when you don't like somebody personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;except for the inevitable instances when political vendettas start becoming pursued upon the academic battleground.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which happens often enough. It&#8217;s amazing how many scholarly points of disagreement can be found when you don&#8217;t like somebody personally.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: j_p_z</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493815</link>
		<dc:creator>j_p_z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493815</guid>
		<description>SRK: "3. Wittgenstein is not the “towering genius” of 20th century philosophy."

In a philosophical century full of bungalows, yes indeed, one would be rather hard-pressed to find any such 'towering' figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SRK: &#8220;3. Wittgenstein is not the “towering genius” of 20th century philosophy.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a philosophical century full of bungalows, yes indeed, one would be rather hard-pressed to find any such &#8216;towering&#8217; figure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493813</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493813</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jobby!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jobby!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jobby</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493803</link>
		<dc:creator>Jobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493803</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Was it US President Wilson who said, “Disputes in Universities are all the more bitter, because the stakes are so low.” ??&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Often attributed to Henry Kissinger, but actually first stated by Columbia University political-science professor, Wallace S. Sayre, who coined a somewhat more elaborate version: "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

University politics are infinitely more bitter and vengeful than 'intellectual' disputes, except for the inevitable instances when political vendettas start becoming pursued upon the academic battleground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Was it US President Wilson who said, “Disputes in Universities are all the more bitter, because the stakes are so low.” ??</p></blockquote>
<p>Often attributed to Henry Kissinger, but actually first stated by Columbia University political-science professor, Wallace S. Sayre, who coined a somewhat more elaborate version: &#8220;Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low.&#8221;</p>
<p>University politics are infinitely more bitter and vengeful than &#8216;intellectual&#8217; disputes, except for the inevitable instances when political vendettas start becoming pursued upon the academic battleground.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: klaus k</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493789</link>
		<dc:creator>klaus k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493789</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure who said that, but I've always liked it. 

The problem is, for students and those who are just starting teaching or doing research, the stakes of departmental disputes are sometimes very high - it can be about their livelihood. A couple of badly-timed attacks by irresponsible - and basically unaccountable - senior staff and it can be a huge setback in terms of future prospects or employment.

I suppose it could be institution-specific, but I hear about far worse things than I've seen personally, going on elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure who said that, but I&#8217;ve always liked it. </p>
<p>The problem is, for students and those who are just starting teaching or doing research, the stakes of departmental disputes are sometimes very high - it can be about their livelihood. A couple of badly-timed attacks by irresponsible - and basically unaccountable - senior staff and it can be a huge setback in terms of future prospects or employment.</p>
<p>I suppose it could be institution-specific, but I hear about far worse things than I&#8217;ve seen personally, going on elsewhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493785</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 04:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493785</guid>
		<description>Klaus, that's an interesting question.

I recall a heated discussion about a current academic/management issue, decades ago. The Law lecturer suggested the staff union should sue the Director; the sociologist said, "you have to understand the social background of the Council members"; the accountant said we should examine the costs; on it went. Now you could say this was a useful cross-disciplinary discussion, each bringing her own skills and knowledge.

I have to say (as an ousider) that disputes within Arts Depts seem to reach a level of vindictiveness, shrillness, fury, etc not seen in most other Depts. An Arts participant in some furore told me, "That's because language and rhetoric are our stock in trade!". 

I'm not so sure that the explanation is adequate. But I could be wrong. Was it US President Wilson who said, "Disputes in Universities are all the more bitter, because the stakes are so low."  ??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Klaus, that&#8217;s an interesting question.</p>
<p>I recall a heated discussion about a current academic/management issue, decades ago. The Law lecturer suggested the staff union should sue the Director; the sociologist said, &#8220;you have to understand the social background of the Council members&#8221;; the accountant said we should examine the costs; on it went. Now you could say this was a useful cross-disciplinary discussion, each bringing her own skills and knowledge.</p>
<p>I have to say (as an ousider) that disputes within Arts Depts seem to reach a level of vindictiveness, shrillness, fury, etc not seen in most other Depts. An Arts participant in some furore told me, &#8220;That&#8217;s because language and rhetoric are our stock in trade!&#8221;. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so sure that the explanation is adequate. But I could be wrong. Was it US President Wilson who said, &#8220;Disputes in Universities are all the more bitter, because the stakes are so low.&#8221;  ??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lines penned for Troy Buswell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493783</link>
		<dc:creator>Lines penned for Troy Buswell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 04:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493783</guid>
		<description>yep words are bloody weapons; and words can be unbloody and deftly used (very sly) weapons, just as effective - not bludgeons I mean.

It doesn't take Frank Furedi's son to tell us that, via his Dad. You wonder if these people ever get out and about. Some news-hacks seem even more closeted and "ivory tower" than the most insular of the fabled "professors".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep words are bloody weapons; and words can be unbloody and deftly used (very sly) weapons, just as effective - not bludgeons I mean.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t take Frank Furedi&#8217;s son to tell us that, via his Dad. You wonder if these people ever get out and about. Some news-hacks seem even more closeted and &#8220;ivory tower&#8221; than the most insular of the fabled &#8220;professors&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493769</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493769</guid>
		<description>Hadn't these guys at the OZ heard that old adage, "The pen is mightier than the sword". Of course words ate bloody weapons. Das Kapital, Mein Kampf, Wealth of Nations ... the list is bloody endless. (Hope I haven't onvoked Godwin's Law accidentally.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hadn&#8217;t these guys at the OZ heard that old adage, &#8220;The pen is mightier than the sword&#8221;. Of course words ate bloody weapons. Das Kapital, Mein Kampf, Wealth of Nations &#8230; the list is bloody endless. (Hope I haven&#8217;t onvoked Godwin&#8217;s Law accidentally.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: klaus k</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493766</link>
		<dc:creator>klaus k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493766</guid>
		<description>"Not sure if that helps you in deciding whether to pursue biology? It’s not always the case that biology is destiny, Klaus"

Indeed. Although I'm less concerned with 'standards' - my experience of an honours year in cultural studies was that I had to work very hard - harder then I've worked before or since - to get a first class, and the thesis was seen by both internal and external markers. It was a process that rewarded rigour, albeit of an interdisciplinary sort. 

My real interest is in the culture of the different areas of study. The humanities and social sciences in some Australian universities, seems to have a certain inescapable ugliness in how staff behave towards each other and towards students (except sometimes for their particular pets, who are then attacked by other staff members). Hence it came as little surprise to me that Kitching would use students in this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not sure if that helps you in deciding whether to pursue biology? It’s not always the case that biology is destiny, Klaus&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed. Although I&#8217;m less concerned with &#8217;standards&#8217; - my experience of an honours year in cultural studies was that I had to work very hard - harder then I&#8217;ve worked before or since - to get a first class, and the thesis was seen by both internal and external markers. It was a process that rewarded rigour, albeit of an interdisciplinary sort. </p>
<p>My real interest is in the culture of the different areas of study. The humanities and social sciences in some Australian universities, seems to have a certain inescapable ugliness in how staff behave towards each other and towards students (except sometimes for their particular pets, who are then attacked by other staff members). Hence it came as little surprise to me that Kitching would use students in this way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thus Sprach Materazzi (to Zizou)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493762</link>
		<dc:creator>Thus Sprach Materazzi (to Zizou)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493762</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“But words are now viewed as psychological weapons,” Furedi said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Heh, Gummo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“But words are now viewed as psychological weapons,” Furedi said.</p></blockquote>
<p>Heh, Gummo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493754</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493754</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Panel member Frank Furedi also knows something about our pusillanimous surrender of Enlightenment values. Debate is closed down by claiming that words, ideas and arguments cause offence to people... His young son was told recently not to use the word retard because it had offensive connotations. His son knew that, which is why he used the term. “But words are now viewed as psychological weapons,” Furedi said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Pure. Comedy. Gold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Panel member Frank Furedi also knows something about our pusillanimous surrender of Enlightenment values. Debate is closed down by claiming that words, ideas and arguments cause offence to people&#8230; His young son was told recently not to use the word retard because it had offensive connotations. His son knew that, which is why he used the term. “But words are now viewed as psychological weapons,” Furedi said.</p></blockquote>
<p>Pure. Comedy. Gold.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493753</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out of Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493753</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Fortunately, you and I won’t need to read this magnum opus. That’s Mark B’s job, and he can then give us a post on what the book says.&lt;/i&gt;

Cool, Paulus. Unfortutately, I have a hankering to read Frow's riposte, if it as good as Mark says. Does it mean I have to fork out the dosh to do so? The Horror.

&lt;i&gt;I conclude that the Oz is now contructing its audience as Liberal voting climate sceptics who are practicing christians. Must be plenty of them out there.&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps, but I'm not one of them, and I don't feel like being patronised by the Oz's stable of flying monkeys, and most of the good stuff is available online. So I bought the AFR instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Fortunately, you and I won’t need to read this magnum opus. That’s Mark B’s job, and he can then give us a post on what the book says.</i></p>
<p>Cool, Paulus. Unfortutately, I have a hankering to read Frow&#8217;s riposte, if it as good as Mark says. Does it mean I have to fork out the dosh to do so? The Horror.</p>
<p><i>I conclude that the Oz is now contructing its audience as Liberal voting climate sceptics who are practicing christians. Must be plenty of them out there.</i></p>
<p>Perhaps, but I&#8217;m not one of them, and I don&#8217;t feel like being patronised by the Oz&#8217;s stable of flying monkeys, and most of the good stuff is available online. So I bought the AFR instead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Petering Time</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493746</link>
		<dc:creator>Petering Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493746</guid>
		<description>Just how many sherbets do you think Janet had sunk when she typed that piece of self-indulgence she laughingly titled "Enlightened spirit of inquiry"?
I liked another Pete's comment on Janet's blog:
"pete down south Wed 06 Aug 08 (04:41am) 
Janet Albrechtsen and Enlightenment = Oxymoron"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just how many sherbets do you think Janet had sunk when she typed that piece of self-indulgence she laughingly titled &#8220;Enlightened spirit of inquiry&#8221;?<br />
I liked another Pete&#8217;s comment on Janet&#8217;s blog:<br />
&#8220;pete down south Wed 06 Aug 08 (04:41am)<br />
Janet Albrechtsen and Enlightenment = Oxymoron&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493743</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493743</guid>
		<description>The limitations of Kitching's "methodology" are so glaring, that it makes me wonder how the argument proceeded through editorial processes. Would it be reasonable to judge Quantum Mechanics on the basis of a 3rd year physics student's assignment? No???!! What about her Hons thesis? No again??

Do you mean I'd have to thoroughly understand the assumptions, methods, predictions and experimental tests of Quantum Mechanics? Oh, bugger that! Haven't got time.

Now if it's really a question of sensing that a Dept has poor teaching, or doesn't edit and assess Honours theses very rigorously: as others have said, that's a matter to be dealt with inside the Dept, not paraded for public ridicule. University Depts are still supposed to be self-governing in academic matters and the taxpayer would expect intelligent persons to have devised methods that suit the particular discipline, to achieve fair and defendable outcomes.

Klaus wrote: "Selling out your own students and junior colleagues, bullying, ‘public’ humiliation, are all par for the course in certain institutions. I wonder, is it better in the sciences? It does seem to be, but maybe it’s a case of the grass being greener on the other side of campus. Perhaps I’ll retrain as a biologist."

Klaus, I've observed a number of science Depts, and a poor first or second draft of an Hons thesis would generally come under heavy scrutiny I think. Partly because standards need to be maintained. Partly because everyone recognises that an Honours grade is crucial for a student applying for postgrad scholarships. In many science Depts at least one Hons examiner is external to the Dept.

Not sure if that helps you in deciding whether to pursue biology? It's not always the case that biology is destiny, Klaus ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The limitations of Kitching&#8217;s &#8220;methodology&#8221; are so glaring, that it makes me wonder how the argument proceeded through editorial processes. Would it be reasonable to judge Quantum Mechanics on the basis of a 3rd year physics student&#8217;s assignment? No???!! What about her Hons thesis? No again??</p>
<p>Do you mean I&#8217;d have to thoroughly understand the assumptions, methods, predictions and experimental tests of Quantum Mechanics? Oh, bugger that! Haven&#8217;t got time.</p>
<p>Now if it&#8217;s really a question of sensing that a Dept has poor teaching, or doesn&#8217;t edit and assess Honours theses very rigorously: as others have said, that&#8217;s a matter to be dealt with inside the Dept, not paraded for public ridicule. University Depts are still supposed to be self-governing in academic matters and the taxpayer would expect intelligent persons to have devised methods that suit the particular discipline, to achieve fair and defendable outcomes.</p>
<p>Klaus wrote: &#8220;Selling out your own students and junior colleagues, bullying, ‘public’ humiliation, are all par for the course in certain institutions. I wonder, is it better in the sciences? It does seem to be, but maybe it’s a case of the grass being greener on the other side of campus. Perhaps I’ll retrain as a biologist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Klaus, I&#8217;ve observed a number of science Depts, and a poor first or second draft of an Hons thesis would generally come under heavy scrutiny I think. Partly because standards need to be maintained. Partly because everyone recognises that an Honours grade is crucial for a student applying for postgrad scholarships. In many science Depts at least one Hons examiner is external to the Dept.</p>
<p>Not sure if that helps you in deciding whether to pursue biology? It&#8217;s not always the case that biology is destiny, Klaus <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493733</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493733</guid>
		<description>Yep, that's what I was saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, that&#8217;s what I was saying.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SRK</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493728</link>
		<dc:creator>SRK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/07/the-enlightenment-is-in-danger-from-its-false-friends/#comment-493728</guid>
		<description>Klaus: Right. My mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Klaus: Right. My mistake.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
