Occasional guest poster at LP, Marcus Westbury, is on Q&A tonight - ABC1 at 9.30pm. Let’s hope he can get a word in between the pompous comedy stylings of Greg Sheridan, and the litterateur/Macquarie Bank shill Bob Carr.
Germaine Greer will also be a guest. Greer has just released a new essay in book form - On Rage, which I’m very much looking forward to reading. I was interested to see her obvious frustration last night in a Lateline interview with Leigh Sales at the difficulty of articulating any position that goes beyond tired dichotomies on Indigenous Policy and the NT intervention (including those which claim to transcend tired dichotomies). Or perhaps it would be better to say the inability to hear any heterodox position. I suspect a lot of the rage directed at Greer herself comes from an inability to comprehend or recognise any thought that doesn’t follow the predictable grooves of a “debate”, and indeed any call for reflection on issues and stories a lot of us would rather not face. So it’ll be interesting to watch her in this format too.
The indigenous academic and anthropologist on the Lateline report pretty much dismissed Greer’s contribution. Sadly Greer appears to be a much diminished thinker. Her antics on Big Brother were bizarre, to say the least. She once was great, but like an old boxer who has been battered about the ring one too many times, she should now hang up her gloves.
Oh, come on. She goes out of her way to make people angry. Sometimes I [think I] can see the thought she’s trying to provoke, but on others, she seems just to be a loudly opinionated misanthrope and snob.
Lord Sir Sidney at 1, no, I don’t think that’s right. The reaction of Judy Atkinson (if not Peter Sutton) was less clear cut than you suggest:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2334387.htm
And if you go on to read the transcript of the interview with Sales, it appears that the “shorter Greer” that the ABC reporter put to the other interviewees may not have actually reflected what Greer was arguing in its context and complexity. Not everything is reducible to a soundbite.
Lord Sir Sidney - did you actually read the transcript? If so, what disagreements do you have with what Greer said?
She’s on the money when she says we could learn from the Canadians:
We’re more than 25 years behind.
I really ought to pay more attention to what I’m reading. At first, I thought you said that Germaine Greer was to be a guest VJ tomorrow night on Rage.
That might be fun too!
How did people in NSW put up with Bob Carr for so long? Talk about stuffed shirt.
“Talk about stuffed shirt.” Indeed! He made Greg S sound reasonable (at least on the bits I watched). Personally, I think the whole show is terrible.
It was appalling tonight (apart from Germaine and the odd bits of Marcus). Bob Carr and Greg Sheridan competing as to who could come out with more empty and blustering rhetoric.
I thought Greer was understandable, always interesting and made a lot of sense.
Of the interview with Leigh Sales, there was no meeting of minds. For Greer to articulate her position under those circumstances was impossible and the attempt extremely frustrating.
I need to go back and listen properly to her interview on Breakfast which tigtog commented on here.
Now Greer has outed herself as an authoritarian-socialist (or Marxist for short)
I hope the vast majority of the decent left that are democratic and libertarian socialists will shun her from now on.
Also Bob Carr’s comment on Abu Graib indicate either someone covering up a crime or else just another grossly incompetent thinker and historian. Carr is a disgrace.
Both are such a disgrace, and then looking at the democrat party in the US at the moment and the UK labor and the NT result it would seem the democratic socialist narrative is up a serious cul-de-sac.
Maybe its time for democratic socialism to step aside for libertarian-socialism?
Its recent responses to both far-Left and lunar-Right fascists is pathetic, weak and worthless.
Greer is the epitome of opinionated condescension. She knows what’s right, she is the font of wisdom, and if you disagree with her vast intellect you’re an idiot.
Greg Sheridan and Bob Carr can be somewhat pompous, but at least they can see that other sides of the political spectrum can have an argument.
Greer often has interesting things to say, but, as with her fellow expat John Pilger, I wish she’d be less damn arrogant and self-righteous in the way she said it.
Last nights show was a steaming turd, from Sheridan to Greer we saw our clueless opinion makers simultaneously out of touch and barking mad, only Westbury showed an ounce of sanity. Gawd help us all! It’s time for a new and much younger cast of Australian characters.
I agree with Phil.
I thought it was interesting that Carr was still so pessimistic about Obama, I’ve been monitoring the polling and it really is Obama’s election to lose (he’s comfortably in front in all the Kerry states + has a solid lead in Col, Iowa and New mexico, and is running neck and neck in about eight other states that are going to require the Reps to do some serious defending) While I’m sure a bit of pessimism in analysing faults of your candidates is a good idea, I just don’t get Obama’s comparison with Dukakis, I just cannot see what the Republican attack ads are going to do other than appeal to their own base.
Greer: some interesting material decades ago, basically a one-book wonder. She now lives in that curious zone where people engage in a kind of parody of real intellectual activity where they throw around factoids, together with ideas and concepts they never bother to define. It’s like those lazy but over-confident students you sometimes encounter who bullshit on the basis of their own opinions.
Germaine Greer is articulate, intelligent, self depricating and passionate about what she believes in.
Seems that in this day and age we prefer bland and meaningless to thought provoking and perceptive. Or maybe she wouldn’t be the receipient of such negativity if she confirmed to the modern female stereotype - young, pretty and vacuous.
I agree that Greer doesn’t bring the same rigour to her public commentary and engagements that she does to her scholarship, but I wouldn’t go as far as Geoff Robinson has, either. Certainly, the Greer who writes on women poets and artists, and on John Wilmot and William Shakespeare (and Shakespeare’s wife), is an important scholar with a lot of interesting things to say in her field.
When she works outside of the scholarly mode she doesn’t abandon her status as an intellectual, she just uses it in a different, limited way, to criticise and provoke. I haven’t read ‘On Rage’ yet, but ‘Whitefella Jump Up’ was genuinely thought-provoking on questions of cultural politics. The point of such texts is not that the reader be convinced, but that they be challenged.
Wasn’t so much appalling as cynical. The young bloke and Greer were constructive, but some of the other stuff was appalling. Bishop and Sales, or whoever writes her scripts, are of a feather.
Was actually experiencing chest pains after that destructive piece of work from Sales.
But at QA it was as amusing watching Carr and Jones ponting the finger at each other as root cause for system failure, as it was hearing Sheridan describe himself as a “Christian” .
All the while serious stuff like telstra and qantas are ignored.
Disappointing (mis-) use of public medium/technology. Tired and irrelevant opinions about ‘issues’ regarding which nobody on the panel had ‘authority’ to speak. Reverse the situation: what would that panel have to say if a group of 5-6 Indigenous (sic) ‘opinion-makers’ or ‘experts’ were discussing THEIR future: in the terms used last night - while the actual lives they live lack running-water, solar/wind power,adequate footwear (you get worms if you lack footwear), medications for parasites and pulmonary-respiratoty illnesses, dyalisis machines (there should be one at least in every community and technicians to operate them, breakfast,instruction in modern/contemporary governance ethics/standards so they may make their own decisions within the parameters of the Australian polity - which does not, currently, occur. I can go on…
“I can go on…”
Yes, you do.
Well done Geoff Robinson! You neatly skewered the ignorant Australian’s dismissive after dinner conversational, stereotypical regard for Greer. That was your intention, wasn’t it?
To employ the force of her personality and attempt to remind the Australian public a billion dollar policy in the NT should have been or was about more than investigating over-amplified and embarrassingly unproven (to anywhere near the degree of the amplification) claims of child sexual abuse - and was therefore a dismal failure on its own terms - is admirable in itself.
To hear Bishop yet again resort to that crutch of emotional blackmail in support of her then Government’s policy – and have the gall to say ‘we’ll be ensuring the new Government keeps up our good work’ made me want to throw up.
Adding to my earlier comment. A part of the problem with this kind of panel is the group dynamics, the correct composition brings out the best of everyone, something that has happened on Q&A this year, however this panel wasn’t it.
Combine that will well known personalities from a era gone by (with Westbury and Bishop as possible exceptions with the public is just getting to know those two better) and you have a recipe for crushing frustration….at least from this viewer.
I’m tired of Greer though I might agree with her general thrust on a number of issues, why? Because I think she’s now just looking for effect, like a radio shock jock. The “I’m a Marxist” jibe was clearly directed at Sheridan. She ain’t one.
Carr? I question his credentials as some kind of historian, he’s knows a bit about US politics but WTF was he talking about last night re Obama? It flew in the face of anything I’ve see coming out of there poll wise and I’m following that campaign as much as anyone on this side of the pond. And trying to suggest that Westbury didn’t know how an electoral college works? Well, that was just plain condescending.
Sheridan is just a black and white clown who see everything through the prism of a Ludlum or bad cold war novel (Not that the Cold War was ever really over) but nuance? Fuggetaboutit and him.
Bishop is just a tired Political hack,or at least mouths the lines of one, she’s actually in a position to become a real human politically but consistently fails, preferring the Stepford wife option. It annoys me because I thing she could be an excellent politician for the Libs, but maybe what we see is all there is with her. Too bad.
I dunno, Phil, I thought we saw some signs of humanity from Bishop last night. I think she had a crush on Germaine.
Bob Carr has a crush on himself.
Word.
Thanks for that visual image, Kim.
Bronnie and Germaine.
Didn’t watch the show; don’t watch TV. However, “On Despair” might be a more appropriate title for a book about the topic at hand. Although rage and despair can be connected.
Julie not Bronnie, Darlene!
God, I am having a good one.
I am scared now that when the word “Bishop” gets mentioned, I immediately think of Bronnie. Dr Freud, Dr Freud, where are you?
The biggest problem with Q & A is the excruciating questions. They’re always so wordy and overloaded because the questioners are looking more at scoring a point than getting answers or opening a discussion.
A more productive approach would filter the questions for issues that at least one panel member could answer knowledgeably; another alternative would be to hand over guest selection to the viewers and let the pros do the questioning (as long as they do it better than Leigh Sales did).
Lazy concept, lazily executed.
Every single week we have had a climate change denialist/right-wing hack/contrarian fouling up the debate. This week it was Greg Sheridan. I blame the ABC board. Why doesn’t Rudd just sack the whole board?
Well I think that the problem is a combination of exruciating questions, right wing hacks, politicians and Tony Jones. If the show was hosted by HG Nelson or John Doyle, it would be much better.
The problem, as with most ABC programs of late is laziness and lack of imagination. And of course we must have the dreaded balance.
They even have to have balance on shows like Spicks and Specks. One smug dick-head one team has to be balanced by another smug dick-head on the other team.
@Kim, Ha! I think? You are right, she did loosen up a bit a couple of times but then the shutters came down quickly with a dose of pollie speak and a plastic smile.
silkworm, I get bored of having to say this when the board comes up.
There are two vacancies occurring on the board this year and the Rudd government has stated they’ll be filled by a transparent merit based process.
To sack the whole board would require legislation which would be most unlikely to pass the Senate, even if you don’t agree with Labor that it’s a bad way to go about changing the process from political patronage and ideological aims to merit.
But it’s more likely to be the “balance” thing than any direct influence from board members.
What “balance” Kim?
Since Howard and his mob ruined these public broadcasting sites, “balance” has become a lie as counterweight for each statement of truth.
BTW, good on you for trying to follow up elsewhere on the vicious wedge trick of welfare/ indigenes/ mut ob. Takes us back to what the original “intervention” was really about, in the first place.
I’m agreeing with you about the spurious notion of balance, paul, hence the scare quotes.
Actually, I thought Germaine was sensational on Q&A.
Having her on the panel was a bit like dropping a pirhana into a goldfish bowl: Blood and fins everywhere.
Really? How many of her books have you read?
I’d really like to see Q&A feature an episode with a panel made up entirely of Indigenous leaders. But I won’t hold my breath.
Also, was anyone else as bemused as I was by The Australian’s rage against Germaine Greer in yesterday’s edition.
It devoted to her no less than 2 feature articles (one of which referred to her as a ‘contrarian feminist’ and the other a ‘polemicist’), one commentary piece, an editorial, a political cartoon and much of the Cut and Paste section. Much of this print space argued that she was so out of touch (I suppose with whatever The Australian is IN touch with) that she was really not worth bothering about.
watching it now through abc website
i liked julie bishop’s slip “across the spectre” instead of “spectrum” when talking about how youth have been politically galvanised… lol
i think she was searching for ’spectra’…but pretty ordinary to settle on ’spectre’ after a few moments thought…tut tut silly head girl.
(thought Germaine)
I now realise that the secret to flying below the radar and getting lukewarm but mostly positive reviews is to surround yourself with far more polarising people! I am trying to work out how i can apply this approach elsewhere in life.
Dont, Marcus.
You should realise from this thread that some folk out are reaching the level of post traumatic stress disorder at the sight of the “New” media in action. You can’t realise what a contrast you made to the some of the hams and media tarts hijacking the process for purposes of self-presentation and obfuscation.
Greer was playing a lone hand in having to deal single handed with morons and philistines until you offered some decent mediation on issues concerning the realities involved with them, which of course salvaged Greer’s and the public ’s night, at the expense of the bullshit artists.
It was almost like the old ABC, briefly. Issues taking precedence over spiel and actually allowed briefly to “present”on merit- the likes of Dalton and Cameron must have had kittens!
I admire Greer’s courage in writing about Indigenous males from her perspective, but I have to wonder, based on her Lateline comments(I haven’t had an opportunity to read the book yet, and let’s face it, the public/political discussion will be based more on her publicity work than the work itself), whether it’s wise to start pathologising a racial group as given to rage, whatever the justification might be.
Surely this rage could be used to defend all sorts of rascist situations, from higher incarceration rates, to unemployment, to less favourable housing. It’s not because we’re rascist, see, it’s just that these people as a group, even that nice Noel Pearson, are given to this irrational rage.
Marcus, at 29 i don’t feel part of the ‘yoof demographic’ anymore either, even though my maturity level has yet to age. I believe you did a kick arse job in that token yoof role.
Greer, I just dig. Bishop could have almost been on any show with her empty rhetoric.
Carr and Sheridan, I won’t waste the space, and I wish they had done the same.