Comments on: Abortion reform finally reaches Vic Parliament

By: Adrien

Adrien — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:26:02 +0000

…an act of divine grace to remove the stain of original sin from her soul (thus making her a fit vessel to carry God made manifest in human flesh within her womb)…

Or maybe it’s because we’re slowly evolving from climbing animals to standing animals and also we’re big brained animals so a woman’s pelvis is too small and a baby’s head is too big.
.
But naturally there’s absolutely no evidence for evolution. Just read Ann Coulter. She knows man. She knows how to make money being an arsehole.

By: nabakov

nabakov — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:03:16 +0000

“Come and have a cuddle, Adrien.”

While Zoe does smell and feel lovely, I’d be very careful here Adrien. Remember the Goths, Visigoths, Vandals, Mongols, Moghuls and Brits. They all ended up becoming the culture they initially fought against.

By: the amazing kim

the amazing kim — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:57:45 +0000

…an act of divine grace to remove the stain of original sin from her soul (thus making her a fit vessel to carry God made manifest in human flesh within her womb)…

And so without the original sin clogging up the phonelines, did Mary have a painless childbirth, sexual desire, and was she equal to men? (Remembering punishments from the top of my head)

By: Zoe

Zoe — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:00:59 +0000

I find myself accused of snideness and hostility. All I have to offer is a mea culpa, and a hug.

Come and have a cuddle, Adrien.

By: Helen

Helen — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:34:56 +0000

My headdesk was not directed at you, DD, so much as at those people in general who want to turn this into an interminable discussion on late term abortion. At the risk of feeding it, we DON’T have a problem of rampant late-term abortion for trivial reasons (oh, I just changed my mind / wanted to fit into my Melbourne Cup frock / decided to buy a SUV instead). But the media and many commenters are framing it all around 24 weeks plus and a nebulous suggestion of the rampant abortion parties which will surely ensue if we left it up to the evil wimminz. e.g.: My post on the subject. First. bloody. comment.

OK now I intend to ignore any further comments on the late term red herring (let’s see how far I get with that good intention! )

By: Adrien

Adrien — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:41:59 +0000

Kim, Zoe and PC -
.
Indeed Kim my question wasn’t expressing an opinion. And I did not intend to express an opinion. I was curious as to what would be said about the issue and I in no way ever implied that LP had not discussed this or that no-one knew what they were talking about.
.
Zoe’s commentary had a tinge of hostility in it. She made an assumption about my views. As this is a heated part of political discourse. And especially considering some of the downright macarbre exponents of ‘Pro Life’ polemics I think she can be forgiven for being hostile. However when I clarified them she remained snide.
.
PC described my comment as a ‘provocative’ ‘general insult’ to the ‘LP community’ whatever that constitutes. When I say “Actually I’m not surprised” what I meant was that as this topic is somewhat emotive perhaps people were avoiding what could manifest as something truly ugly.
.
This is not insulting and nor is it meant to be. I have never supported any anti-abortion tenets. I believe that a woman has a right to terminate a preganancy pretty much right up to the point she gives birth.
.
But of course some of us own these issues do we not and those of us who may wish to voice an opinion at odds with this monopoly are to revealed to be what we are.
.
Even if we’re not that at all.

By: derrida derider

derrida derider — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:50:26 +0000

No, Helen, you argued that the focus on late term abortions was due just to it being “more dramatic”. That’s what I was disagreeing with, so please refrain from damaging the desk with your head.
.
OK, maybe I didn’t need to explain the issue but I thought avoiding ambiguity important given the potential for misreading always present in discussion of emotive issues.

By: Dostoyevsky's The Grand Inquisitor

Dostoyevsky's The Grand Inquisitor — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:28:49 +0000

Late term, shmate term. What this debate is really about is whether people should be allowed to sin without our permission and supervision, rather than sticking with our humane and historically proven policy of regulated and supervised sinning followed by confession and absolution.

Also, tickets are now on sale for the auto-da-fe carnival this Sunday. Admission price gets you an illustrated colour program printed in Latin with free online translation facilities, covered seating with CCTV of the incinerations, full tote and bookie facilities for taking bets on the ducking pond, free soft drinks and sandwiches for all patrons, a corporate marquee for all donations of $100 or greater to Opus Dei, and drinks with the Pope at the social club after we burn the last witch.

By: Bingo Bango Boingo

Bingo Bango Boingo — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:27:23 +0000

“As BBB points out, it could be that they think they’ve lost the war around abortion per se so they’re focusing on the later terms…”

I should add, Helen, that you are absolutely right that the pro-lifers use late-term abortions as a emotional button to press whenever the issue of abortion arises.

The focus on late-term abortions is therefore a result of a few factors: (1) genuine ethical issues about which abortions are morally justifiable within a framework that generally accepts a woman’s right to choose (ie. the legitimate end of the debate), (2) pro-lifer attempts to draw the line as close to conception as possible, on preventative grounds (which attempts are also partly driven by the realists who, as you say, know they’ve lost the war and who therefore choose to participate in narrower terms), and (3) the socio-politcal strategy of pro-lifers which, owing to the understandable hesitance on the part of many to allow the killing of relatively more fully formed humans, zeroes in on the few edge cases which are, to put it blunty, ickier (note this is merely a normative statement).

BBB

By: Chris (a different one)

Chris (a different one) — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:16:28 +0000

Paul @ 41 – thats a good question. Regardless of whether its legislated in criminal law or not you do need appropriate support and counselling services.

I think when it comes to rights, especially the balancing of rights of between two entities (for want of a better word) then it does need to be legislated. At the very least if you are going to start recognising a foetus as having some rights at a particular stage of development before birth then they need to have an independent advocate.