Comments on: Forget political narratives, here’s a media narrative

By: Alastair

Alastair — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:08:52 +0000

“I really hate the Labour Right. But I fall for it every time. I’m in the bank as far as they’re concerned but no more! Move over Greens I’m movin’ in.”

“Except that Gillard is from the Left”

Julia Gillard is from the ‘Left’ faction that is ‘left’ by name only. Most Labor MPs these days are right-wingers, including Ms. Gillard.

By: Kim

Kim — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:23:31 +0000

Update: More from Sam Clifford at Public Polity, while on the other side of the blogosphere, Andrew Norton and Jason Soon are Julia Gillard's new biggest fans.

By: patrickg

patrickg — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:34:13 +0000

Wow BBB, you of all people married to a union rep! That must make for some really interesting conversations! Opposites truly do attract!

By: pablo

pablo — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:33:35 +0000

Points taken on the NSW teaching situation. I specifically did not want to be seen as taking sides on issues but to give some idea of what Rudd/Gillard would be taking on if they opt to confront the profession. I believe it would be immensely draining and not necessarily a win for either side. Better in my view for a bit of lateral thinking on what other learning environments kids can find their way into.

By: Adrien

Adrien — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:24:48 +0000

…pragmatism rather than oratory is his weapon of choice.

Oh yes. That’s why he gave $35 million of our money to Toyota. It’s industry policy see. It’s in line with the corporatist stratagems of such nations as South Korea where the government plants the seeds of local industry so the Koreans would not depend on foreign firms for employment and would be able to export local manufacture thus earning lots of….
.
Um.
.
See? Kevvie’s combined the worst of both worlds! Very pragmatic - golf clap. Well done Kevvie.

By: adrian

adrian — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:19:36 +0000

A couple of glasses of a good red is probably all the de-construction I’ll need.

By: Bingo Bango Boingo

Bingo Bango Boingo — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:14:31 +0000

Wow. I don’t know where to go from here. To have something as profound as that in common with you… well, let’s just say there’ll be some serious identity de-construction over dinner tonight.

Cheers
BBB

By: adrian

adrian — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:06:25 +0000

Well that’s one thing we have in common at least!

By: Bingo Bango Boingo

Bingo Bango Boingo — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:04:51 +0000

Then why say it is the principal’s fault? Why blame the employee for the dysfunctional system within which they work? We simply are not providing employees with the tools to get better results from subordinate employees. And who is in the way most of the time? You guessed it, the AEU and the relatively lazy employees whose interests the union, and unnecessarily complex workplace rules, serve.

“Ask any teacher.” I don’t need to ask a teacher, this stuff is volunteered to me all the time. I married one. And she’s the union rep!

BBB

By: adrian

adrian — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:51:10 +0000

Make that ’students that they teach’…

By: no longer moving forward, but playing a merry tune

no longer moving forward, but playing a merry tune — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:48:44 +0000

BBB you dill, I’m just stating the facts mate. While there are many principals who are up to the job there are a sizeable proportion who aren’t. And there are teachers who are moved from school to school because the people who should be doing something about them prefer to pass the problem on to another school or do nothing. While the proportion of ‘duds’ is extremely low the fact that they are not dealt with creates a problem for the teachers that have to work with them, and of course the teachers that they teach.

In fact in one country region in NSW, the ’solution’ for non-performing teachers seems to be medical retirement - that way everyone’s happy and the principal can avoid making tough decisions.

If anything these principals are the victims of their own ambition and a system that promotes incompetence. Ask any teacher.

By: Bingo Bango Boingo

Bingo Bango Boingo — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:28:39 +0000

What an absurd stereotype you’ve constructed there. Principals, especially in state schools, generally work their guts out trying to ensure that teachers are educating their students well. As you say, there is too much paperwork attending to counselling of underperforming teachers, and just forget about sacking one who doesn’t respond to counselling. The upshot for adrian? There’s too much bureaucratic overhead to get rid of the hopelessly bad teachers, and when time-pressed and stressed principals avoid the heartache and hassle, it’s the principals fault. Talk about blaming the victim…

BBB

By: adrian

adrian — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:09:07 +0000

Thing is there’s always been ‘duds’ in the system, but it’s usually the fault of the principals who either move them on to other schools, or do nothing because it involves too much paperwork or is too unpleasant.
These are of course the very same principals that these proposals seek to give even more power to.

By: David

David — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:58:11 +0000

Howard C - 40 years ago teachers were getting a lot more than they do now in real terms, but mostly I was very lucky - there were duds in the system then as well.

By: allways moving forward

allways moving forward — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:21:53 +0000

Yes, amused’s point is a good one.

And I doubt if Gillard is chasing the misfit vote with this one, but you never know.

By: Kim

Kim — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:16:47 +0000

John Greenfield’s endorsement is one I suspect Rudd could do without.

amused - re your point - you may like to check out this post if you haven’t seen it already:

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/26/were-theyre-all-neo-liberals-now/

I’m sure a number of folks will be boning up on the history of education outcomes in Britain since 1997. Watch this space.

By: J.Bentham

J.Bentham — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:12:09 +0000

Gillard is on to a winner here. The only way to improve education is to smash the AEU and to get the state out of micromanaging schools. Provide money, yes. But then get out of the way. But smashing the AEU must be our first priority.

By: Kim

Kim — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:04:02 +0000

Update: Blogospheric reaction at Road to Surfdom, Public Opinion and Blogocracy.

By: Howard C

Howard C — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:02:00 +0000

David, that was the point I was making. By making teaching a more attractive profession, you’ll get a better calibre of person undertaking teaching as a career. And this is a really important area, so I’m not for arguing the toss about who picks up the cheque. But reality is reality, and the money to hire and reward better teachers must come from somewhere.

PatrickG, the maths and english comment was a bit of a throwaway line. I agree with you about many current teachers being awful, though.

Another huge issue teachers must face, and one that hasn’t been mentioned, is students who bring “baggage” from home to school. Either they aren’t being fed properly, or there is domestic problems, and so on. Teachers are relied upon do to more stuff in school I wouldn’t categorise as “teaching”. And criticising parents for being poor at parenting is not really a vote winner. Maybe all the problems associated with our education system will eventually reside in the too hard basket, which is a shame.

By: amused

amused — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:48:32 +0000

Has anyone here considered that this announcement has nothing to do with ‘teaching’ quality’ ‘information for parents blah blah’ or the issue of ‘narrative’ and everything to do with the adoption of the ‘third way’ govenance strategy, perfected by Blair and
Alistair Campbell? It works for a while, until it doesn’t. Then people simply hate your guts for taking them for fools, especially when people realise they were for a while, fools. Ask Gordon Brown and the hapless British LAbour Party back bench, who will soon be electoral toast.