Comments on: The end of financialisation? II http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 06:30:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217357 Mark Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:30:27 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217357 And incidentally the function of providing capital should, I think, be analytically separate from the practice of maximising returns on capital. And incidentally the function of providing capital should, I think, be analytically separate from the practice of maximising returns on capital.

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217356 Mark Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:29:15 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217356 Ok, I see your point, Sacha, but I think it's important to understand that capital markets operate in a very different fashion from markets for tradeable goods. Anyway, I'm doing some reading about all this and I hope to formulate something considered in a few months - post PhD submission. I want to inform myself further before venturing an opinion as to what a framework might look like, although I'm reasonable clear in my mind about what its aims would be. Ok, I see your point, Sacha, but I think it’s important to understand that capital markets operate in a very different fashion from markets for tradeable goods. Anyway, I’m doing some reading about all this and I hope to formulate something considered in a few months – post PhD submission. I want to inform myself further before venturing an opinion as to what a framework might look like, although I’m reasonable clear in my mind about what its aims would be.

]]> By: Sacha http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217355 Sacha Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:10:52 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217355 Short selling is a behaviour - one that people might say emerges from the incentives on people and structures they are interacting within. But this is beside the main point, which is what meant by "social democratic economic policy framework” - whether it means that the incentives on people should be different and if so, how, or whether market structures should be different, etc. My guess is that, whatever structures you create, people will attempt to optimise whatever they wish to optimise within those structures, and that is usually their own financial position. Short selling is a behaviour – one that people might say emerges from the incentives on people and structures they are interacting within.

But this is beside the main point, which is what meant by “social democratic economic policy framework” – whether it means that the incentives on people should be different and if so, how, or whether market structures should be different, etc.

My guess is that, whatever structures you create, people will attempt to optimise whatever they wish to optimise within those structures, and that is usually their own financial position.

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217354 Mark Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:47:26 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217354 Sacha, reflecting on practices such as "short selling" for a moment should suggest markets are about a lot more than "exchanging goods". Sacha, reflecting on practices such as “short selling” for a moment should suggest markets are about a lot more than “exchanging goods”.

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217353 FDB Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:49:17 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217353 Markets are great! When things are going well, it's the market working. When they're not, it's those darn pesky market actors, perverting the naturally perfect operation of markets with their "decisions". Iron clad argument there, Sacha. I couldn't lay a glove on it. Markets are great! When things are going well, it’s the market working. When they’re not, it’s those darn pesky market actors, perverting the naturally perfect operation of markets with their “decisions”.

Iron clad argument there, Sacha. I couldn’t lay a glove on it.

]]> By: Sacha http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217352 Sacha Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:11:50 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217352 Mark, markets are mechanisms that allow persons/businesses to exchange goods. Briefly, are you talking about the motives people/businesses have for exchanging goods? If so, does this relate to markets as such or to the people/businesses in them? Mark, markets are mechanisms that allow persons/businesses to exchange goods. Briefly, are you talking about the motives people/businesses have for exchanging goods? If so, does this relate to markets as such or to the people/businesses in them?

]]> By: David Rubie http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217351 David Rubie Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:27:28 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217351 Bingo Bango Boingo wrote: <blockquote>(1) what are the material differences between the US and Australian housing markets, and what is the risk that there will be a serious price correct in Australia?;</blockquote> The biggest difference is that the US market is overbuilt at the moment - you could argue that the Australian market is the opposite of this. In the leadup to the last election here in Oz, much was made of the state governments failing to release land for development around our cities. I think we can silently give thanks that they are so inefficient. That's not to say housing here won't correct, but it hasn't got as far to fall as the US. The <a href="http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/index.html" rel="nofollow">housing bubble blog</a> has been as good a place as any to watch that particular train wreck in the US. You might have trouble reading it without a primer though: HELOC == home equity line of credit, NINJA loans most people know about, FB = first buyer (at least I think that's the polite version). The answer to (3) is probably not so much in the consumer credit laws, but in the conservative nature of banking in Australia where zero deposit housing loans are exceedingly rare and writing mortgages simply for the brokerage is not profitable. Bingo Bango Boingo wrote:

(1) what are the material differences between the US and Australian housing markets, and what is the risk that there will be a serious price correct in Australia?;

The biggest difference is that the US market is overbuilt at the moment – you could argue that the Australian market is the opposite of this. In the leadup to the last election here in Oz, much was made of the state governments failing to release land for development around our cities. I think we can silently give thanks that they are so inefficient. That’s not to say housing here won’t correct, but it hasn’t got as far to fall as the US. The housing bubble blog has been as good a place as any to watch that particular train wreck in the US. You might have trouble reading it without a primer though: HELOC == home equity line of credit, NINJA loans most people know about, FB = first buyer (at least I think that’s the polite version).

The answer to (3) is probably not so much in the consumer credit laws, but in the conservative nature of banking in Australia where zero deposit housing loans are exceedingly rare and writing mortgages simply for the brokerage is not profitable.

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217350 Mark Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:36:42 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217350 Sacha, broadly speaking something which recognises that markets don't only serve the ends of capital accumulation, but that's too long a story for me to tell at the moment! Sacha, broadly speaking something which recognises that markets don’t only serve the ends of capital accumulation, but that’s too long a story for me to tell at the moment!

]]> By: Sacha http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217349 Sacha Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:38:24 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217349 <blockquote>But here’s the rub - there may be an opening here for a revived social democratic economic policy framework. As far as I can see, though, no one has really developed such a framework at the very time it’s needed - so blinded have the left been by the nostrums of neo-liberal “no alternativism” in macro-economic policy. Many of those assumptions, as Farrell indicates, are now collapsing like a house of cards.</blockquote> Mark, what are you thinking about in writing "social democratic economic policy framework" - what do you mean by this?

But here’s the rub – there may be an opening here for a revived social democratic economic policy framework. As far as I can see, though, no one has really developed such a framework at the very time it’s needed – so blinded have the left been by the nostrums of neo-liberal “no alternativism” in macro-economic policy. Many of those assumptions, as Farrell indicates, are now collapsing like a house of cards.

Mark, what are you thinking about in writing “social democratic economic policy framework” – what do you mean by this?

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217348 Mark Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:30:33 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/19/the-end-of-financialisation-ii/#comment-217348 Yes, but the takeover was hardly something people had been contemplating happening in the normal course of events, BBB. Yes, but the takeover was hardly something people had been contemplating happening in the normal course of events, BBB.

]]>