Comments on: Burgers, Metaphors and the End of Kapitalism. http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:45:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Adrien http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217860 Adrien Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:17:03 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217860 <blockquote>Markets are, in very important ways, metaphors.</blockquote> Oh yeah? How? I don;t see it. Maybe you shoulda gone the simile instead; markets are like metaphors. . I still don't see it.

Markets are, in very important ways, metaphors.

Oh yeah? How? I don;t see it. Maybe you shoulda gone the simile instead; markets are like metaphors.
.
I still don’t see it.

]]> By: AlanJae http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217859 AlanJae Wed, 24 Sep 2008 05:10:20 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217859 Oops. Was apologising for my poor grammar, not necessarily the content... Oops.
Was apologising for my poor grammar, not necessarily the content…

]]> By: AlanJae http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217858 AlanJae Wed, 24 Sep 2008 05:07:44 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217858 Apologies for my hastily typed comments. Apologies for my hastily typed comments.

]]> By: AlanJae http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217857 AlanJae Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:44:43 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217857 Either way, as my background <em>isn't</em> in any stream of economics / finance, I'm sure that I've made a goose of myself for either oversimplifying an (overly?) intricate process or mistakenly elevating a minor fragment of the broader situation to Palin-esque levels. Bless the anonymity of the web!! <blockquote>"I like your idea of baking the financial system pie with clear pastry and thus nothing but chunks of steak and field mushrooms inside, but I can’t really see it happening."</blockquote> Nah, me neither! We human beings are creatures of habit and self-interest. IMHO this means we are inherently underqualified in enacting significant changes of any type, especially when there's a quid or two involved (just see climate change)... Either way, as my background isn’t in any stream of economics / finance, I’m sure that I’ve made a goose of myself for either oversimplifying an (overly?) intricate process or mistakenly elevating a minor fragment of the broader situation to Palin-esque levels. Bless the anonymity of the web!!

“I like your idea of baking the financial system pie with clear pastry and thus nothing but chunks of steak and field mushrooms inside, but I can’t really see it happening.”

Nah, me neither! We human beings are creatures of habit and self-interest. IMHO this means we are inherently underqualified in enacting significant changes of any type, especially when there’s a quid or two involved (just see climate change)…

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217856 FDB Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:15:36 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217856 <strike>which</strike> while *le sigh* which while

*le sigh*

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217855 FDB Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:14:06 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217855 Rethinking what I said too simplistically, of course activity which falsely drives up stock value and creates overconfidence is also damaging, which driving down stock that deserves to go there anyway might not be. So maybe the <i>prima facie</i> case doesn't bear much scrutiny anyway. I like your idea of baking the financial system pie with clear pastry and thus nothing but chunks of steak and field mushrooms inside, but I can't really see it happening. Rethinking what I said too simplistically, of course activity which falsely drives up stock value and creates overconfidence is also damaging, which driving down stock that deserves to go there anyway might not be. So maybe the prima facie case doesn’t bear much scrutiny anyway.

I like your idea of baking the financial system pie with clear pastry and thus nothing but chunks of steak and field mushrooms inside, but I can’t really see it happening.

]]> By: AlanJae http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217854 AlanJae Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:05:10 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217854 FDB - I guess I'm saying that shorting isn't the problem, the problem is the current financial mindset which created such an environment where short selling became so prevalent (and let's not forget, financially rewarding). Just as you wouldn't buy a meat pie that is all 'lips 'n' assholes', wouldn't a greater level of transparency discourage investment in shoddily structured stocks? Wouldn't this in turn, reduce the pool of stocks which could theoretically be the target of shorting? Is it possible to view short selling as a weapon? In that case, its the intent of the wielder that determines whether the weapon is good (ie. in the hands of most policeman) or bad (to shoot a moose). FDB – I guess I’m saying that shorting isn’t the problem, the problem is the current financial mindset which created such an environment where short selling became so prevalent (and let’s not forget, financially rewarding). Just as you wouldn’t buy a meat pie that is all ‘lips ‘n’ assholes’, wouldn’t a greater level of transparency discourage investment in shoddily structured stocks? Wouldn’t this in turn, reduce the pool of stocks which could theoretically be the target of shorting?

Is it possible to view short selling as a weapon? In that case, its the intent of the wielder that determines whether the weapon is good (ie. in the hands of most policeman) or bad (to shoot a moose).

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217853 FDB Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:39:32 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217853 AlanJae - surely there's at least a <i>prima facie</i> case for saying that activity designed to drive down the value of a stock is qualitatively different, i.e. worse for the economy, than activity targetted at building value and confidence. AlanJae – surely there’s at least a prima facie case for saying that activity designed to drive down the value of a stock is qualitatively different, i.e. worse for the economy, than activity targetted at building value and confidence.

]]> By: AlanJae http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217852 AlanJae Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:06:04 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217852 As an interested non-economist type guy, my impression of 'shorting' is that it an action carried out by those institutions (hedgefunds etc) who identify one or more fundamental weakness in a targeted stock. If this is the case, then shorting is neither good nor bad - its just one tool of many that enables moneymaking (which, when we look at 'the market' in the cool light of day, is the name of the game). Ultimately, shorting is possible because there is insufficient market transparency and accountability for potential investors to fully background attractive investments. I'm sure shorting wouldn't be as rife if investors and (arguably toothless) regulators were privy to much of the information as 'those who short' have been. If that were the case, there would be obvious disincentives for creating questionable stock items (as the level of debt housed in any given stock could be easily identified, for instance). Wouldn't this decrease the instances of shorting? Further on analogies, I've seen the emotive term 'predatory' bandied around the interweb in discussions on this topic. It should be remembered that while the role of a predator in a natural ecosystem can be viewed superficially as 'a bad thing' (if it you who happens to be eaten), predation is largely beneficial to a prey species in the long run (it weeds out the weak and infirm, thereby improving the prey's survival rate as a whole). It is only when too many predators feed upon a finite number of prey that predation can be a bad thing. Perhaps this is the real message we should be taking from the current market situation... As an interested non-economist type guy, my impression of ‘shorting’ is that it an action carried out by those institutions (hedgefunds etc) who identify one or more fundamental weakness in a targeted stock. If this is the case, then shorting is neither good nor bad – its just one tool of many that enables moneymaking (which, when we look at ‘the market’ in the cool light of day, is the name of the game).

Ultimately, shorting is possible because there is insufficient market transparency and accountability for potential investors to fully background attractive investments. I’m sure shorting wouldn’t be as rife if investors and (arguably toothless) regulators were privy to much of the information as ‘those who short’ have been. If that were the case, there would be obvious disincentives for creating questionable stock items (as the level of debt housed in any given stock could be easily identified, for instance). Wouldn’t this decrease the instances of shorting?

Further on analogies, I’ve seen the emotive term ‘predatory’ bandied around the interweb in discussions on this topic. It should be remembered that while the role of a predator in a natural ecosystem can be viewed superficially as ‘a bad thing’ (if it you who happens to be eaten), predation is largely beneficial to a prey species in the long run (it weeds out the weak and infirm, thereby improving the prey’s survival rate as a whole). It is only when too many predators feed upon a finite number of prey that predation can be a bad thing. Perhaps this is the real message we should be taking from the current market situation…

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217851 Mark Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:54:40 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/23/burgers-metaphors-and-the-end-of-kapitalism/#comment-217851 Well, yeah, FXH, but I'm interested in the liquidity justification - some dude on Lateline Business repeated that but no one appears to explain it. Personally I don't think gambling to make dosh on the markets in this form is any more useful or to be encouraged than gambling and losing dosh. It seems to partly defeat the so-called informational function of markets. Well, yeah, FXH, but I’m interested in the liquidity justification – some dude on Lateline Business repeated that but no one appears to explain it. Personally I don’t think gambling to make dosh on the markets in this form is any more useful or to be encouraged than gambling and losing dosh. It seems to partly defeat the so-called informational function of markets.

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