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	<title>Comments on: TARP watch: bailout FAILOUT</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521783</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521783</guid>
		<description>Libertarians worry that the bailout plan is quite similar to The Communist Manifesto!

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/09/29/bailout-marks-karl-marx-s-comeback.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarians worry that the bailout plan is quite similar to The Communist Manifesto!</p>
<p><a href="http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/09/29/bailout-marks-karl-marx-s-comeback.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/09/29/bailout-marks-karl-marx-s-comeback.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: wizofaus</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521673</link>
		<dc:creator>wizofaus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521673</guid>
		<description>Some background on the &quot;wooden arrow&quot; provision here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&amp;sid=aKd0vyGN8L2k&amp;refer=us

Although I also read that it was part of a bill that was already passed by Senate the week prior, and the bills were simply appended for passage through the House, something that occurs fairly commonly apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some background on the &#8220;wooden arrow&#8221; provision here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&amp;sid=aKd0vyGN8L2k&amp;refer=us" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&amp;sid=aKd0vyGN8L2k&amp;refer=us</a></p>
<p>Although I also read that it was part of a bill that was already passed by Senate the week prior, and the bills were simply appended for passage through the House, something that occurs fairly commonly apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: adrian</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521661</link>
		<dc:creator>adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521661</guid>
		<description>There are some interesting blogs describing the urban decay and disintegration in many major American cities.

Detroit appears to be one of the worst hit cities, but it has spawned this wonderful blog :&lt;a href=&quot;//www.detroitblog.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;DetroitBlog.&lt;/a&gt; 
The blogger combines the gifts of a natural writer with a deep respect for the city and its sometimes desperate and eccentric inhabitants.
Trawling through the archives is a fascinating experience, giving an outsider a rare insight into the nature of a city in seemingly terminal decline.

Originally found through the wonderful Australian blog, barista.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some interesting blogs describing the urban decay and disintegration in many major American cities.</p>
<p>Detroit appears to be one of the worst hit cities, but it has spawned this wonderful blog :<a href="//www.detroitblog.org/" rel="nofollow">DetroitBlog.</a><br />
The blogger combines the gifts of a natural writer with a deep respect for the city and its sometimes desperate and eccentric inhabitants.<br />
Trawling through the archives is a fascinating experience, giving an outsider a rare insight into the nature of a city in seemingly terminal decline.</p>
<p>Originally found through the wonderful Australian blog, barista.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521655</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521655</guid>
		<description>The world may be staring into the hollow eyes sockets of teh.biggest.crisis.eva.

But that&#039;s no reason to spurn the toy arrow lobby:

From the latest draft of the TARP:

&lt;blockquote&gt;SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY CHILDREN.

‘(B) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROW SHAFTS.-Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any shaft consisting of all natural wood with no laminations or artificial means of enhancing the spine of such shaft (whether sold separately or incorporated as part of a finished or unfinished product) of a type used in the manufacture of any arrow which after its assembly- ‘‘(i) measures 5⁄16 of an inch or less in diameter, and ‘‘(ii) is not suitable for use with a bow described in paragraph (1)(A).&#039;&#039;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Paulson&#039;s TARP began life as a three-pager. It now has hundreds of sections of the lardiest pork just like the one above.

I guess some Congress folks are really, really concerned about the future of the world.

&quot;I shot an arrow into the air, It fell to earth, I knew not where&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world may be staring into the hollow eyes sockets of teh.biggest.crisis.eva.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s no reason to spurn the toy arrow lobby:</p>
<p>From the latest draft of the TARP:</p>
<blockquote><p>SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY CHILDREN.</p>
<p>‘(B) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROW SHAFTS.-Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any shaft consisting of all natural wood with no laminations or artificial means of enhancing the spine of such shaft (whether sold separately or incorporated as part of a finished or unfinished product) of a type used in the manufacture of any arrow which after its assembly- ‘‘(i) measures 5⁄16 of an inch or less in diameter, and ‘‘(ii) is not suitable for use with a bow described in paragraph (1)(A).&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>Paulson&#8217;s TARP began life as a three-pager. It now has hundreds of sections of the lardiest pork just like the one above.</p>
<p>I guess some Congress folks are really, really concerned about the future of the world.</p>
<p>&#8220;I shot an arrow into the air, It fell to earth, I knew not where&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: charles</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521433</link>
		<dc:creator>charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521433</guid>
		<description>Boy from Flynn, I&#039;ve spent months and months in the place and I would be happy if I never have to go back. I think you have pretty much nailed it, and to think there a people that want to turn Australia into the same sad and sorry state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy from Flynn, I&#8217;ve spent months and months in the place and I would be happy if I never have to go back. I think you have pretty much nailed it, and to think there a people that want to turn Australia into the same sad and sorry state.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521432</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521432</guid>
		<description>Adrien [93 - and re my post 91] You said

&lt;blockquote&gt;  &quot;I believe we’re watching something like the processes that took place in Rome in the first century BCE leading to the collapse of the republic&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;Great minds think alike&quot; perhaps?

I did originally think of posting a suggestion of using a modern-day version of the Proscriptio of Lucius Cornelius Sulla but changed my mind when I actually posted and instead suggested the public execution of a symbolic few.   Bumping off large numbers of the culprits would delight the victims, of course, but if the U.S. economy is to make anything other than a temporary imaginary recovery then it will need thousands of contrite, rigidly-controlled former finance industry workers to implement the painful, necessary, long-overdue radical reforms.  [Those former finance workers undergoing Restitution-&amp;-Rehabilitation work can be taken back to their prison camps each night and given a full day off each Christmas or Rosh-Hashanah].

[and post 92]:

China as superpower?    Yes, just what is the going price for &quot;waterview&quot; property in the Columbia Hills on Mars?

Boy from Flynn [97]:

It was the incredible gap between poverty and ostentatious riches that really shocked me when I was in the U.S. in the &#039;Eighties .... and I had a lot of contact with Americans for many years before I went there!   Things have got a lot worse since then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrien [93 - and re my post 91] You said</p>
<blockquote><p>  &#8220;I believe we’re watching something like the processes that took place in Rome in the first century BCE leading to the collapse of the republic&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Great minds think alike&#8221; perhaps?</p>
<p>I did originally think of posting a suggestion of using a modern-day version of the Proscriptio of Lucius Cornelius Sulla but changed my mind when I actually posted and instead suggested the public execution of a symbolic few.   Bumping off large numbers of the culprits would delight the victims, of course, but if the U.S. economy is to make anything other than a temporary imaginary recovery then it will need thousands of contrite, rigidly-controlled former finance industry workers to implement the painful, necessary, long-overdue radical reforms.  [Those former finance workers undergoing Restitution-&amp;-Rehabilitation work can be taken back to their prison camps each night and given a full day off each Christmas or Rosh-Hashanah].</p>
<p>[and post 92]:</p>
<p>China as superpower?    Yes, just what is the going price for &#8220;waterview&#8221; property in the Columbia Hills on Mars?</p>
<p>Boy from Flynn [97]:</p>
<p>It was the incredible gap between poverty and ostentatious riches that really shocked me when I was in the U.S. in the &#8216;Eighties &#8230;. and I had a lot of contact with Americans for many years before I went there!   Things have got a lot worse since then.</p>
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		<title>By: Boy from Flynn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521420</link>
		<dc:creator>Boy from Flynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521420</guid>
		<description>Yep, that&#039;s the other thing I noticed wizofaus. The general RUN-DOWN appearence of many places there. As we expected, places like Annaheim, Beverly Hills, Rodeo Drive, Orange County etc were clean, well-maintained looking and almost completely free of homeless people (police must keep them out of the upmarket areas or something) while a great many other places have a distinct third-worldish look about them. Lots of money is obviously funnelled into select spots while the rest is largely neglected. I bet public money furnishes the areas lived in and frequented by the rich who pay little or no tax themselves.

Surprisingly, Hollywood and the walk of fame are among the crappier places. Not far from Maralyn Monroe&#039;s star in the pavement, I saw a guy offering to work for food. How fucked is that?

Driving past the Bronx, our tour guide pointed out a tiny, run-down cottage on the edge of a sprawling slum and told us that it had recently sold for US$3 million - an omen of things to come.

Yeah, it&#039;s pretty shocking that the (self -declared) centre of the free world should come to be in such a state. I think though, in accordance with their culture, it would be hard to find a better example of a lumpen proletariat. They must be the most individualistic and self-centred people I have come accross. They appear driven on one hand  by a fervent belief that in America, anyone can become mega-rich if they are prepared to work hard enough, and on the other by an almost pathalogical suspicion of government - raising taxes, even if it is to be spent on hospitals, schools, roads etc seems to be regarded as an attack on the American way of life. It&#039;s more like a collection of self-centred individuals than a society as such.

No wonder they&#039;re stewing in their own sour brew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, that&#8217;s the other thing I noticed wizofaus. The general RUN-DOWN appearence of many places there. As we expected, places like Annaheim, Beverly Hills, Rodeo Drive, Orange County etc were clean, well-maintained looking and almost completely free of homeless people (police must keep them out of the upmarket areas or something) while a great many other places have a distinct third-worldish look about them. Lots of money is obviously funnelled into select spots while the rest is largely neglected. I bet public money furnishes the areas lived in and frequented by the rich who pay little or no tax themselves.</p>
<p>Surprisingly, Hollywood and the walk of fame are among the crappier places. Not far from Maralyn Monroe&#8217;s star in the pavement, I saw a guy offering to work for food. How fucked is that?</p>
<p>Driving past the Bronx, our tour guide pointed out a tiny, run-down cottage on the edge of a sprawling slum and told us that it had recently sold for US$3 million &#8211; an omen of things to come.</p>
<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty shocking that the (self -declared) centre of the free world should come to be in such a state. I think though, in accordance with their culture, it would be hard to find a better example of a lumpen proletariat. They must be the most individualistic and self-centred people I have come accross. They appear driven on one hand  by a fervent belief that in America, anyone can become mega-rich if they are prepared to work hard enough, and on the other by an almost pathalogical suspicion of government &#8211; raising taxes, even if it is to be spent on hospitals, schools, roads etc seems to be regarded as an attack on the American way of life. It&#8217;s more like a collection of self-centred individuals than a society as such.</p>
<p>No wonder they&#8217;re stewing in their own sour brew.</p>
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		<title>By: wizofaus</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-3/#comment-521382</link>
		<dc:creator>wizofaus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521382</guid>
		<description>While I have been the US recently at witnessed the inequalities first hand, you don&#039;t actually need to go there: it&#039;s pretty visible even in plenty of fairly mainstream Hollywood movies and TV shows, especially those of the Law &amp; Order variety.  But what really shocked me is the shoddy state of the infrastucture - AFAICT, almost all roads even in the wealthier parts of major cities are in pretty shocking condition, airports are invariably run-down, public playgrounds completely neglected, and power-outs common.  I can only assume it&#039;s been a gradual change that the public just somehow haven&#039;t noticed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have been the US recently at witnessed the inequalities first hand, you don&#8217;t actually need to go there: it&#8217;s pretty visible even in plenty of fairly mainstream Hollywood movies and TV shows, especially those of the Law &amp; Order variety.  But what really shocked me is the shoddy state of the infrastucture &#8211; AFAICT, almost all roads even in the wealthier parts of major cities are in pretty shocking condition, airports are invariably run-down, public playgrounds completely neglected, and power-outs common.  I can only assume it&#8217;s been a gradual change that the public just somehow haven&#8217;t noticed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521375</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521375</guid>
		<description>Indeed, Adrien.

BFF - yep, I&#039;ve heard similar from friends who&#039;ve been to the States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, Adrien.</p>
<p>BFF &#8211; yep, I&#8217;ve heard similar from friends who&#8217;ve been to the States.</p>
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		<title>By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521363</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out of Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521363</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I believe we’re watching something like the processes that took place in Rome in the first century BCE leading to the collapse of the republic.&lt;/i&gt;

Interesting that you mention that, Adrian. Robert Farley makes &lt;a href=&quot;http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2008/09/simply-because-something-must-happen.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the same comparison&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s not just a few bad apples - it&#039;s massive political and institutional failure in the United States. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=09&amp;year=2008&amp;base_name=its_bigger_than_the_bailout&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ezra Klein&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/09/when-politics-f.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hilzoy&lt;/a&gt; (linked to by Robert) are also worth reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I believe we’re watching something like the processes that took place in Rome in the first century BCE leading to the collapse of the republic.</i></p>
<p>Interesting that you mention that, Adrian. Robert Farley makes <a href="http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2008/09/simply-because-something-must-happen.html" rel="nofollow">the same comparison</a>. It&#8217;s not just a few bad apples &#8211; it&#8217;s massive political and institutional failure in the United States. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=09&amp;year=2008&amp;base_name=its_bigger_than_the_bailout" rel="nofollow">Ezra Klein</a> and <a href="http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/09/when-politics-f.html" rel="nofollow">Hilzoy</a> (linked to by Robert) are also worth reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521362</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521362</guid>
		<description>That is interesting Mark. Another excellent indicator of Gross Domestic Product as a reliable indice of just how well things are going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is interesting Mark. Another excellent indicator of Gross Domestic Product as a reliable indice of just how well things are going.</p>
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		<title>By: Boy from Flynn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521361</link>
		<dc:creator>Boy from Flynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521361</guid>
		<description>Mark@85,

        I can offer some anecdotes of income equality or at least redistribution in the US vs Australia and Canada.

I was in the United States last year, before for the current debacle came onto the radar and when everything was considered to be in great shape. I recieved a rather SEVERE culture shock. The kind of homelessness and general poverty that you can witness here and there in Sydney or Melbourne was in very much greater abundance in American cities. LA consisted of little islands of great wealth floating in a sea of general crap. Dirty, run-down and most of all - homeless people and beggars absolutely everywhere we went. The parks, sidewalks and uderpasses were swarming with them. Inequality was gross compared with Australia. It was also largely absent from cities in Canada - a country often derided in the US as &quot;soft&quot;, &quot;wet&quot;, or &quot;pinko&quot;.

We found it appalling that a rich, modern nation could let so many of it&#039;s people simply rot in the gutter - literally.

As I said, it is only my personal observation but I can assure people that if incomes have been rising in the US, they have not been rising in the lower stratas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark@85,</p>
<p>        I can offer some anecdotes of income equality or at least redistribution in the US vs Australia and Canada.</p>
<p>I was in the United States last year, before for the current debacle came onto the radar and when everything was considered to be in great shape. I recieved a rather SEVERE culture shock. The kind of homelessness and general poverty that you can witness here and there in Sydney or Melbourne was in very much greater abundance in American cities. LA consisted of little islands of great wealth floating in a sea of general crap. Dirty, run-down and most of all &#8211; homeless people and beggars absolutely everywhere we went. The parks, sidewalks and uderpasses were swarming with them. Inequality was gross compared with Australia. It was also largely absent from cities in Canada &#8211; a country often derided in the US as &#8220;soft&#8221;, &#8220;wet&#8221;, or &#8220;pinko&#8221;.</p>
<p>We found it appalling that a rich, modern nation could let so many of it&#8217;s people simply rot in the gutter &#8211; literally.</p>
<p>As I said, it is only my personal observation but I can assure people that if incomes have been rising in the US, they have not been rising in the lower stratas.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521348</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521348</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s something interesting I just came across in my reading - from David Harvey writing in 2003:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Some 20 per cent of GDP growth in the United States in 2002 was attributable to consumers refinancing their mortgage debt on the inflated values of their housing and using the extra money they gained for immediate consumption... British consumers borrowed $19 billion in the third quarter alone of 2002 against the value of their mortgages to finance their consumption. What happens if and when this property bubble bursts is a matter for serious concern.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So it&#039;s not just subprime. It&#039;s a generalised devaluation of housing values which were being used to obtain credit for consumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s something interesting I just came across in my reading &#8211; from David Harvey writing in 2003:</p>
<blockquote><p>Some 20 per cent of GDP growth in the United States in 2002 was attributable to consumers refinancing their mortgage debt on the inflated values of their housing and using the extra money they gained for immediate consumption&#8230; British consumers borrowed $19 billion in the third quarter alone of 2002 against the value of their mortgages to finance their consumption. What happens if and when this property bubble bursts is a matter for serious concern.</p></blockquote>
<p>So it&#8217;s not just subprime. It&#8217;s a generalised devaluation of housing values which were being used to obtain credit for consumption.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521338</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521338</guid>
		<description>Brednon - Pragmatically I can&#039;t argue. But I &lt;i&gt;hate&lt;/i&gt; nukes. Still I reckon the whole world&#039;s gonna go nuke and then there&#039;ll be peace because either a. Every state has a rational hegemony (snark) or b. Black crusty crater planets are actually quite peaceful. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brednon &#8211; Pragmatically I can&#8217;t argue. But I <i>hate</i> nukes. Still I reckon the whole world&#8217;s gonna go nuke and then there&#8217;ll be peace because either a. Every state has a rational hegemony (snark) or b. Black crusty crater planets are actually quite peaceful. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brendon</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521321</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521321</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Adrien:
And viz Australia taking responsibility for its own defense - hear fuckin’ hear. My researches into geopolitics, particularly of the utterly vile policies of the Bush and Blair governments, is making me almost poisonously misanthorpic. I want nothing more to do with them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Adrien, all we need is a set of nuclear tipped ICBMs aimed at the eyeballs of each of the leaders of the major military powers. Only maybe a dozen or so. Guaranteed we will never be attacked. My policy is heavily dependant on the cowadice of political leaders. I&#039;m sure GWB would cack himself. It couldn&#039;t take that long to build them.
 

   

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Tim Dunlop off to smell a few roses »« Open Garnaut Review report thread
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&lt;blockquote&gt;And viz Australia taking responsibility for its own defense - hear fuckin’ hear. My researches into geopolitics, particularly of the utterly vile policies of the Bush and Blair governments, is making me almost poisonously misanthorpic. I want nothing more to do with them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Adrien:<br />
And viz Australia taking responsibility for its own defense &#8211; hear fuckin’ hear. My researches into geopolitics, particularly of the utterly vile policies of the Bush and Blair governments, is making me almost poisonously misanthorpic. I want nothing more to do with them.</p></blockquote>
<p>Adrien, all we need is a set of nuclear tipped ICBMs aimed at the eyeballs of each of the leaders of the major military powers. Only maybe a dozen or so. Guaranteed we will never be attacked. My policy is heavily dependant on the cowadice of political leaders. I&#8217;m sure GWB would cack himself. It couldn&#8217;t take that long to build them.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Tim Dunlop off to smell a few roses »« Open Garnaut Review report thread<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<blockquote><p>And viz Australia taking responsibility for its own defense &#8211; hear fuckin’ hear. My researches into geopolitics, particularly of the utterly vile policies of the Bush and Blair governments, is making me almost poisonously misanthorpic. I want nothing more to do with them.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521308</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521308</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;but it would quickly restore confidence in the United States.

Not as a deterrent – because crooks who plunder the public will never never be deterred by a death penalty – but to show the whole world, as nothing else could, that the United States is absolutely determined to rescue its economy …. and that the U.S.A. is back in business.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It won&#039;t happen. Following on Chris Hitchens&#039; &lt;i&gt;The Trial of Henry Kissinger&lt;/i&gt; (hope hope) there&#039;s a new book out: &lt;i&gt;The Trial of Donald Rumsfeld&lt;/i&gt; the basis for this trial by literature is Rumsfeld&#039;s advocacy of torture. It won&#039;t happen. Neither will American hegemony be rolled back by civilized means I fear. I believe we&#039;re watching something like the processes that took place in Rome in the first century BCE leading to the collapse of the republic. 
.
I also fear we&#039;re looking at a repeat of what happened to the League of Nations. And we all know what happened next.
.
I&#039;m still waiting for Henry Kissinger&#039;s latest memoir: &lt;i&gt;I Deserve to Burn in Hell For Ever&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>but it would quickly restore confidence in the United States.</p>
<p>Not as a deterrent – because crooks who plunder the public will never never be deterred by a death penalty – but to show the whole world, as nothing else could, that the United States is absolutely determined to rescue its economy …. and that the U.S.A. is back in business.</p></blockquote>
<p>It won&#8217;t happen. Following on Chris Hitchens&#8217; <i>The Trial of Henry Kissinger</i> (hope hope) there&#8217;s a new book out: <i>The Trial of Donald Rumsfeld</i> the basis for this trial by literature is Rumsfeld&#8217;s advocacy of torture. It won&#8217;t happen. Neither will American hegemony be rolled back by civilized means I fear. I believe we&#8217;re watching something like the processes that took place in Rome in the first century BCE leading to the collapse of the republic.<br />
.<br />
I also fear we&#8217;re looking at a repeat of what happened to the League of Nations. And we all know what happened next.<br />
.<br />
I&#8217;m still waiting for Henry Kissinger&#8217;s latest memoir: <i>I Deserve to Burn in Hell For Ever</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521299</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521299</guid>
		<description>Graham - &lt;blockquote&gt;No. I meant that China is now in an excellent position to relieve the United States of its onerous job as the World’s Policeman and to show the whole world what wonderful fellows they are.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Something about frying pan and fire comes to mind here. The US has been behaving pretty obnoxiously since WWII and very obnoxiously for the last 16 years but the PRC running the world? God no!!!!
.
Or Russia? 
.
Do they sell real estate on Mars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham &#8211;<br />
<blockquote>No. I meant that China is now in an excellent position to relieve the United States of its onerous job as the World’s Policeman and to show the whole world what wonderful fellows they are.</p></blockquote>
<p>Something about frying pan and fire comes to mind here. The US has been behaving pretty obnoxiously since WWII and very obnoxiously for the last 16 years but the PRC running the world? God no!!!!<br />
.<br />
Or Russia?<br />
.<br />
Do they sell real estate on Mars?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521244</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521244</guid>
		<description>Tigtog and All:

It is indeed vital that a sounder package than the “bailout” be hammered out.

I personally feel that such measures must include exceedingly harsh punishments against the main players who caused this disaster.   This is quite apart from the immorality of rewarding crooks for their crimes; that&#039;s an entirely separate moral issue.  I&#039;m talking about the economic issue alone.

America still has the death penalty.  America has shown the whole world that nowadays it can and will override any national or international law or covenant for whatever political purposes it likes.  America can and must show no less ruthlessness towards those responsible for these gigantic crimes against the American people.   The Congress united could take a swift and terrible never-to-be-repeated bold action to save the United States itself.  Doing so would need steely courage and iron-hard determination in the face of wild clamour and condemnation..

If this means the public execution of as many of the culprits as were Imperial Japanese war criminals executed after the Second World War then so be it.   Doing so would horrify the whole world – but it would quickly restore confidence in the United States.

Not as a deterrent – because crooks who plunder the public will never never be deterred by a death penalty – but to show the whole world, as nothing else could, that the United States is absolutely determined to rescue its economy .... and that the U.S.A. is back in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tigtog and All:</p>
<p>It is indeed vital that a sounder package than the “bailout” be hammered out.</p>
<p>I personally feel that such measures must include exceedingly harsh punishments against the main players who caused this disaster.   This is quite apart from the immorality of rewarding crooks for their crimes; that&#8217;s an entirely separate moral issue.  I&#8217;m talking about the economic issue alone.</p>
<p>America still has the death penalty.  America has shown the whole world that nowadays it can and will override any national or international law or covenant for whatever political purposes it likes.  America can and must show no less ruthlessness towards those responsible for these gigantic crimes against the American people.   The Congress united could take a swift and terrible never-to-be-repeated bold action to save the United States itself.  Doing so would need steely courage and iron-hard determination in the face of wild clamour and condemnation..</p>
<p>If this means the public execution of as many of the culprits as were Imperial Japanese war criminals executed after the Second World War then so be it.   Doing so would horrify the whole world – but it would quickly restore confidence in the United States.</p>
<p>Not as a deterrent – because crooks who plunder the public will never never be deterred by a death penalty – but to show the whole world, as nothing else could, that the United States is absolutely determined to rescue its economy &#8230;. and that the U.S.A. is back in business.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521237</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521237</guid>
		<description>Adrien [86]:

Why would China want to attack the United States right now?  They&#039;ve got a Christmas-hold on the American economy and besides, the United States might be a handy satellite/client state as time goes by.

No.  I meant that China is now in an excellent position to relieve the United States of its onerous job as the World&#039;s Policeman and to show the whole world what wonderful fellows they are.

Though I do not expect that either Sudan or Iran will be their enemies in the first couple of wars they become involved in.   Now, Somalia is quite another kettle-of-fish; piracy. internal disorder, easy access by air and by sea, great country for tank and airborne operations, absolutely no risk of world-wide condemnation if they go in there .... and, well, what do you know, a country in which the greatest super-power, the United states itself failed ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrien [86]:</p>
<p>Why would China want to attack the United States right now?  They&#8217;ve got a Christmas-hold on the American economy and besides, the United States might be a handy satellite/client state as time goes by.</p>
<p>No.  I meant that China is now in an excellent position to relieve the United States of its onerous job as the World&#8217;s Policeman and to show the whole world what wonderful fellows they are.</p>
<p>Though I do not expect that either Sudan or Iran will be their enemies in the first couple of wars they become involved in.   Now, Somalia is quite another kettle-of-fish; piracy. internal disorder, easy access by air and by sea, great country for tank and airborne operations, absolutely no risk of world-wide condemnation if they go in there &#8230;. and, well, what do you know, a country in which the greatest super-power, the United states itself failed &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/comment-page-2/#comment-521213</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out of Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/09/30/tarp-watch-bailout-failout/#comment-521213</guid>
		<description>Stuff Congress - the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/01/congress.wallstreet&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Senate will vote on the bailout&lt;/a&gt; &lt;i&gt;first&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuff Congress &#8211; the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/01/congress.wallstreet" rel="nofollow">Senate will vote on the bailout</a> <i>first</i>.</p>
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