Daylight saving has begun in some Southern states, but here in sunny Queensland, our political masters have decreed that we’re having none of it, despite government commissioned research which shows 60% in favour and 69% in the South East Corner.
When Anna Bligh became premier, she was quick to rule out daylight saving – a decision which was supposed to symbolise, well, decisiveness and a desire to govern for the cows and the blinds that might fade as well as for pesky urbanites.
It’s not looking like such a good call now. LNP members were instructed by the Borg’s office to avoid the subject when questioned, and flicking the switch to daylight saving would be a deft wedge to expose divisions between the Nats and the Libs in the LNP, as well as to highlight the lack of Brisbane representation on the LNP front bench.
I love DS, except that down here in Victoria the mornings are still soooo cooooooold.
Daylight Saving is only for the swagbound.
No need to fuke with the clock.
You want an “extra” hour of daylight? Get up an hour earlier.
Never seen the point myself. In Brisbane the sun rises an an or two earlier and sets an hour or two later… so what?
I’m all for DS once the weather improves here in Sth West Vic…but couldn’t we start in Nov ’cause like, Helen #1 says, its so bloody cold (and dark) here!
Apparently the debate about introducing a DS trial to WA was quite heated, and produced this gem from Eric Ripper:
Whoops, link didn’t work:
Linked text
Phooey. Just go here.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200611/s1794214.htm
Also, Eric Ripper quoting, not from Eric Ripper.
* Makes mental note to read comment properly before posting *
My understanding is that while southern Queensland may get some benefit, having daylight saving in FNQ is not worth it because daylight variations are much less.
One of the main benefits of having it over here in the west is that we maintain our two hour difference. It’s a PITA when we go to three. But I imagine that now SemiColin is in we’ll be back to the status quo, not very forward thinking these conservatives.
more gardening time of an evening, after work, here in cool victoria
Very possibly, but it would likely backfire outside of the South East and further alienate folk who already think the govt is only interested in the South East (at the expense of everyone else). Mind you, the few seats lost might well be compensated by the half-dozen they pickup.
Of course, a smart move might be to “split” the state allowing the South East to go into DST and leave the rest “different”. This would win over the South East (who clearly want DST) and appeal to the separationist mentality up north. It might be lousy economically, but would, politically, be very savvy. One suspects that, given the current position of the govt, if the LNP took up such a position during the election campaign, it would allow them to wedge the govt.
Guido Oct 6th, 2008 at 1:26 pm . People in the North hate DS because the sun ‘gets up’ far too early. Check out the longitude of Townsville and Cairns and you will find they are as far west as places like St George.
Too many votes to be lost by DS in those Northern locations because they are in fact so far West.
GoTroppo, 69% approval for DST compared to 60% across the state suggests there’s probably majority support outside the South East as well, though I haven’t checked to see if that’s so.
Anyway, from a political pov, if there are a lot of voters who are relatively indifferent, the chance to set off an internal fight in the LNP might be worth the throw of a dice.
I hear a lot of people complaining that “inner-city elites” is an invented bogeyman meant to polarise suburban and rural voters. “It’s a caricature!” goes the cry.
Then Kim comes out with ” … a desire to govern for the cows and the blinds that might fade as well as for pesky urbanites”.
Charming. I guess people in the North just aren’t a wise or deserving as the good burghers of Brisbane.
Lesser variation in daylight would mean more demand for it not less.
Makes one wonder why the deep south has daylight saving, if their daylight variation is so much more it would remove the need to “create” daylight.
Jacques, I was being IRONIC!
But I think you’ll find that a large majority of people across SEQ are in favour of DST, not just latte sipping inner city elites. If they exist.
Kim, apart from a few white-shoe wakkas on the gold coast, there is not much determination in the “yes” camp.
However the “NO” camp is bitterly and vehemently opposed to daylight saving.
This has been the case at referendum (a reliable survey).
?? Wouldn’t daylight saving effectively ‘delay’ the sunrise? Also, being further west would mean an even later start to the day?
I’m always pleased when daylight saving starts. And we down south have always had a suspicion that Queenslanders are behind the times …
steve @ 18, I think you’d be surprised. And a lot’s changed since 1991 when the referendum was held (if memory serves).
The extra light occurs at both ends of the day, SATP. Why have the sun blazing in at 4:30am when you can be enjoying it in an outdoor bar at 8:30pm?
I remember some gloriously long twilights in London around June … although there can be too much of a good thing: have heard that the all day light experienced by the Scandies tends to send them a bit troppo …
Lucky Quenslanders, for not having this obnoxious practice inflicted on them, as is as happening this weegend in Adelaide.
Two things, when daylight saving started down here,it started much later and finished much earlier. But give politicians and the local chamber of commerce an inch and they’ll take a mile. That is the second point. It’s been cribbed in even earlier this year, on the rationale that “tourists” can use the malls, etc over the long weekend.
Now, who comes to Adelaide; I ask you!
Wonder is we are not by now dragooned out of bed at five past midnight on a freezing July morning, the way the vested interests have clamoured for DS.
The problem in QLD, including Brisbane, is the damn heat! It stays blindingly hot until sunset and you have to postpone any outside exertion until after the sun goes down. I was a cleaner during and after the early 90s trial and it was awful. My mate who was a distance runner was really looking forward to DST until he tried it for a week and then couldn’t wait for it to finish. He had to postpone his runs for an hour and effectively lost an hour of his evening every day. He puts it in the same category as pokies, one of those things ‘everyone knew’ Qld ‘had to have’ post Joh.
The ‘extra hour’ of heat also means people will run their home aircon harder and longer so it’s a climate emissions negative as well. There’s a study of Victorian energy usage during 2000 when DST was extended for the Olympics and energy usage was higher in 2000 than it was in 1999 and 2001 (IIRC – I don;t have the link at hand, but I’ll try to dig it up. I think there’s a Californian study that reaches the same conclusion.)
And splitting the state in two seems to fatally undercut the argument that Qld needs to be in sync with the southern states. Somehow it’s more important for brisbane to be in the same timezone as Syd than it is for the rest of the state to be in sync with its capital? What kind of sense does that make?
d (who always gets grumpy at this time of year and would much rather have an extra hour of evening light in winter)
Be a tad cold in winter in the morning, though, Darryl, when you have to get up for work!
“Why have the sun blazing in at 4:30am when you can be enjoying it in an outdoor bar at 8:30pm. I remember some gloriously long twilights in London around June…”
Kim! I think I found one!! Not sure if they’re sipping latte or a chardy tho…
d
A nice chilled Pinot, perhaps, Darryl?
Personally, I like to spend the hot *not yet extra* hour going for a swim!
Ah, the obligatory annual daylight savings post. Well, I’ve experienced both, and I can say I look forward to daylight savings time every year. After-work trips to the beach, evenings on the deck as the sun goes down – loving it. That said, I accept the fact that Coinsland will never get it, and for perfectly legitimate reasons (ignoring the ‘latte-sipping/redneck effenqueue’ rubbish). Thanks, and see you next year.
Haiku, there is the option of getting out of bed to enjoy the 4.30am sunshine.
If people are too lazy (ie, are swagbound) to get up & enjoy the morning daylight, why should others be inconvenienced by blazing afternoon heat to cater for some idle princesses?
The last hour of (blistering) sunshine is spent waiting for life to become bearable in the evening cool. For this reason the north will continue to oppose daylight “saving”.
The west (in conjunction with the north) is unimpressed at the thought of sunshine not commencing until 7.30am, and of trying to put kids to bed in blistering heat & sunshine which lasts until 9.30pm.
SATP, how am I going to sip on my chardonnalatte at 4:30am, without running the risk of being hassled by late-night rugby league revellers?
“Be a tad cold in winter in the morning, though, Darryl, when you have to get up for work!”
Yep, so no effective change to the mornings, but an opportunity to take the boy to the oval to practice his footy after work, which I can’t do at the moment.
d
The bio-clock hates it! Still, resurrect the war-time blackout curtains and re-train the inner alarm and it does indeed make for long pleasant evenings for those of us unregimented types.
Everyone:
To the Devil with Daylight Saving and with all the Time Zones confusion …. have the whole of Australia, every bit of it, in the one time zone for the whole year; that time zone should be +9hours UTC [=GMT] …. and if that happens to be the same time zone as Tokyo, well, there you go.
Oh no mate. No. It’ll fade the cows and the curtains won’t give milk and I have enough trouble understanding the time. I haven’t figgered out how to work the hands on me watch yet.
.
Bloody commies and crazies in the city. You just keep your pinkolesopoufo mitts of me ignorance. In don’t know what ignorant means but I know we’s it.
Ah.
Day light saving is enjoyable and practical in the southern parts of Australia, where the day time temperatures only go above 37′C for, maybe, a fortnight a year
If you lived in the north west of Western Australia, however, north of the 26th, the tropic of Capricorn, I would suggest ‘daylight spending’ during the southern summer and not ‘day light saving’ would be the best proposition. Instead of putting the clocks forward an hour, put them back an hour.
Most days from mid September to early May are above 37′C, quite often into the 40s. It is not bearable to be outside during day light hours. Most outdoor activities specially children’s sports, do not start until the sun goes below the horizon. and are conducted under lights.
Then again, we could do away with local time zones all together and adopt UTC. We are after all a 24/7 society, aren’t we? It works well in the aviation industry, so why not adopt it for all of society.
AS an ex-QLDer, I can only say: “what do they know of daylight savings, who only Quinceland know.”
Sorry 33 Graham Bell, I knew there was a previous UTC comment before mine but I could not find it when I quickly scrolled back to find it. I thought it was much further back.
Can’t wait till we get rid of it next year here in Perth. It has been tortuous the last two years of it, and the Eastern States’ messing around with their start and end times means the only argument for ever having it in the first place is up the creek without a paddle. Ironically, it’s probably one of the few things the Liberal and National Parties in WA can agree upon (well, now that Birney’s gone anyway)…
Chilled pinot indeed.
Bah!
Well we could benefit from moving away from the 9-5 work hours for the majority. There’s many jobs out there that wouldn’t be adversely affected by people working a range of hours (eg 7-3, 9-5, 11-7) – whatever fits them best. It would also help reduce traffic congestion and reduce the load on public transport by reducing the peak demand.
Can also be much more family friendly, especially if you let people (where it can be done) break up their work day.
Oh God, I hate daylight savings, I always feel like I’m on fast forward for the entire six months. I just never seem to adjust. I agree with those who say: if you want to get up an hour early every single day, feel free, and leave me out of it. Pleeease Queensland, don’t take up daylight savings, it’s been my ambition for years to move there to avoid daylight savings…
Oh and to those who say it’s best for the southern states, I say meh. I’m in Canberra, so starting daylight savings at the beginning of October this year means it is bloody freezing again in the mornings. Then, by the time you get to November, the light doesn’t properly fade until around 9pm. blargh.
There are many benefits of Daylight savings. I say to the Anti movement out there thats why we have 6 months of daylight saving. 6 months for us daylight savers Oct-Apr and 6 months for the non-daylight savers. Apr-Sep. Check out the resources and become educated on the issue from these sites
http://ds4seq.com/ http://www.daylightsavingseq.com.au/ http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au webexhibits.org/daylightsaving http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html
hendo, I’m with you. Having grown up in Sydney with DS, then having lived in Brisbane without, and now living in Canberra with, I miss my time without DS. I honestly find it a complete pain in the arse.
Perhaps this is my workaholic showing, but my major problem these days is that I end up at work much later than I intend because the daylight keeps making me think it’s earlier, so I’ve got time to finish one more report/review/whatever. And you’re right about the cold in October.
And to be perfectly honest plural of anecdote not being data aside, a majority of the people I’ve encountered in favour of Daylight Savings for Qld have been folks who moved up from NSW and Vic (says she who moved up from NSW herself), and it’s taken a fair amount of restraint for me to not tell them that if it’s so darn important, maybe they should move back down south. Of course, my partner and I have been joking for the last two years about petitioning the ACT to remove daylight savings.
Adopting UTC sounds enticing in a strange way. Winding the clock back 10 hours would reduce the figures for night-time crime, as the night-time would be full of daylight. The rate of sun cancers would drop, as sunbathing at the beach on days off would be done without sunlight. And when it came to trade, well, our clocks would then be in sync with Europe (specifically the UK), so negotiations etc. could be done more efficiently during the normal working day.
Mind you, one of the silliest justifications I heard was a couple of years ago, when some pro-DS wallah said the current situation “was bad for Qld’s trade figures” because Queensland lost some trading opportunities with NSW and Vic. because it didn’t wind the clocks forward for summer. As Queensland does more trade with Tokyo and Beijing than with Sydney and Melbourne, one would think that was an argument for winding the clocks back a couple of hours, putting Brisbane in the same time-zone as Perth and Beijing.
terangeree, I’ve heard the losing trade with Sydney and Melbourne one too. And honestly, my response to that one was that if whoever on the Syd and Melb end said no because of the time difference, then they’re hardly going to get much business outside Sydney and Melbourne; are they going to demand that LA or NY change their clocks before folks in Sydney and Melbourne will do business with them?
I suspect that the State government may eventually cave and make the South-East corner An Enclave Of Faded Curtains, as suggested by GoTroppo@12. There should be no major economic problems – people can cope OK with the current Qld/NT and Qld/NSW time zone boundaries. The only real casualty will be Double New Year-on-Tweed.
There are good reasons for DST and Non-DST, but which carries weight depends entirely on where you are, strongly biassed by what you are used to, as is apparent from comments in this thread.
If you are far from the equator, don’t want to be woken up by bright sunlight at 4 am but like lively outdoor cafes and bars in the twilight at 8 pm, then DST is for you. Non-DST is for morning larks who like to spend their leisuretime daylight not waking up the neighbours and not going to closed shops and pubs.
If you are close enough to the equator that the sun rises at 6 and goes down at 6 all year round anyway, and for daylight in summer to imply that outdoors is a stinking, sweaty hell, then you’d probably prefer sunset as early as possible.
The boundary between these regimes, for most, probably lies very close to Brisbane.
It amazes me the furphies that people put out to justify their preference as an absolute, be it time zone disparities or curtain-fading!
hendo@42. Yes, it sounds like moving north is for you. As an archetypal evening person who likes staying up, hates mornings but likes my sunlight, I’ll stay here at higher latitude, enjoy DST, and wish we had it all year round. I love light evenings. Those bl**dy jammy Europeans have DST from late March to late October: 7 months. We used to have only 5 months. Roll on late September – late April DST!
Graham@33. Nope. This would be silly. Some of us need our daylight at sensible times. But I’ve never understood the HALF hour jump between SA/NT time and Eastern Australian time. Why not go the whole hog and make it a full hour?
Of course, we could just move the NSW border north to Gympie (but keep Brisbane as the capital of Qld, of course).
People need understand that most Australians live and work in Urban Temperate Centres, which are the economic workhorse of Australia. The health and well-being is important for these people hence having or introducing Daylight savings. There are many advantages, able to spend recreational daylight hours with family and friends after work or school, exercising under less UV in the morning and late afternoon evening. Plus being light later in the evening with DST, creates a sense of security for men and women on urban streets. There are also convincing environmental reasons for daylight saving time. Daylight saving has been introduced into many countries in an attempt to save energy. Governments and citizens of the day need to seize the opportunity and embrace positive effects of what Daylight Savings has to offer. As for the time difference between BNE-SYD-MEL most investment has been made by these companies coming up from down South and creating jobs. But the people that work in these companies have to put in an extra hour each day to cover DST down south. Mostly having that hour unpaid.