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	<title>Comments on: Review into the NT Intervention: on not reading and stereotyped debates</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: David Irving (no relation)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211119</link>
		<dc:creator>David Irving (no relation)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211119</guid>
		<description>Paulus, I&#039;ve ignored everything Paul Kelly has said or written since he started boosting economic rationalism all those years ago. I also have pretty much ignored the Oz (print and online) except for Bleak and Doonesbury since just after the election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paulus, I&#8217;ve ignored everything Paul Kelly has said or written since he started boosting economic rationalism all those years ago. I also have pretty much ignored the Oz (print and online) except for Bleak and Doonesbury since just after the election.</p>
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		<title>By: Fmark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211118</link>
		<dc:creator>Fmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211118</guid>
		<description>I think the watering down of the intervention can be read in two ways:
1) As an attempt to appease the bureaucrats, or
2) As an attempt to stop the opposition and Hendo and co. from getting any traction in their criticisms of it

If it is the former, then clearly the report is doomed to moulder in the ever-growing pile of unimplemented reports on Indigenous issues.  If the latter is the case however, there may be hope for some kind of progress, if the government is able to somehow whip the relevant departments into line.  I&#039;m with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/17/2120994.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fiona Stanley&lt;/a&gt; on this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;I don&#039;t think that the housing situation [sic], which is relatively easy to fix by the way, if you really wanted to fix it you would fix it.&quot;

Professor Stanley says senior bureaucrats who fail to act on recommendations to improve conditions in indigenous communities in the Kimberley should be sacked or have their pay cut.

&quot;That&#039;s where the accountability has to come in and, if it&#039;s not delivered, someone has to pay for that,&quot; she said.

Someone has to pay for that with their own job or their salary or something.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the watering down of the intervention can be read in two ways:<br />
1) As an attempt to appease the bureaucrats, or<br />
2) As an attempt to stop the opposition and Hendo and co. from getting any traction in their criticisms of it</p>
<p>If it is the former, then clearly the report is doomed to moulder in the ever-growing pile of unimplemented reports on Indigenous issues.  If the latter is the case however, there may be hope for some kind of progress, if the government is able to somehow whip the relevant departments into line.  I&#8217;m with <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/17/2120994.htm" rel="nofollow">Fiona Stanley</a> on this:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;I don&#8217;t think that the housing situation [sic], which is relatively easy to fix by the way, if you really wanted to fix it you would fix it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Professor Stanley says senior bureaucrats who fail to act on recommendations to improve conditions in indigenous communities in the Kimberley should be sacked or have their pay cut.</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s where the accountability has to come in and, if it&#8217;s not delivered, someone has to pay for that,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>Someone has to pay for that with their own job or their salary or something.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Kevin Rennie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211117</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Rennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211117</guid>
		<description>Read the NTER report if not all the submissions. Makes good sense to me. My thoughts at: &lt;a href=&quot;http://laborview.blogspot.com/2008/10/nt-intervention-report-way-forward.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NT Intervention Report the way forward&lt;/a&gt; Hard to disagree with Andrew Bartlett&#039;s comments on the entrenched positions. It&#039;s the nastiness that I find hard to stomach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the NTER report if not all the submissions. Makes good sense to me. My thoughts at: <a href="http://laborview.blogspot.com/2008/10/nt-intervention-report-way-forward.html" rel="nofollow">NT Intervention Report the way forward</a> Hard to disagree with Andrew Bartlett&#8217;s comments on the entrenched positions. It&#8217;s the nastiness that I find hard to stomach.</p>
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		<title>By: paul walter</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211116</link>
		<dc:creator>paul walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211116</guid>
		<description>&quot;public intellectuals&quot;... Bwa!
My cat has more brains than Hendo and Donnelly combined. At least he knows the current newspapers are for shredding rather than reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;public intellectuals&#8221;&#8230; Bwa!<br />
My cat has more brains than Hendo and Donnelly combined. At least he knows the current newspapers are for shredding rather than reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulus</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211115</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211115</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mostly opinion&quot;? One page of op-eds and an editorial column offends you so much? I&#039;d like to see a bit more opinion writing in The Oz, actually.

And it ain&#039;t all radical right, either. Did you see Paul Kelly&#039;s piece yesterday on how Kevin Rudd is determined not to let the nation slip into recession? It couldn&#039;t have been more pro-ALP if they had just reprinted a government press release.

Anyway, this is OT to the point Kim was making about journos&#039; and opinionistas&#039; fire-from-the-hip reactions to complex policy issues -- which I think is a very valid point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mostly opinion&#8221;? One page of op-eds and an editorial column offends you so much? I&#8217;d like to see a bit more opinion writing in The Oz, actually.</p>
<p>And it ain&#8217;t all radical right, either. Did you see Paul Kelly&#8217;s piece yesterday on how Kevin Rudd is determined not to let the nation slip into recession? It couldn&#8217;t have been more pro-ALP if they had just reprinted a government press release.</p>
<p>Anyway, this is OT to the point Kim was making about journos&#8217; and opinionistas&#8217; fire-from-the-hip reactions to complex policy issues &#8212; which I think is a very valid point.</p>
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		<title>By: David Irving (no relation)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211114</link>
		<dc:creator>David Irving (no relation)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211114</guid>
		<description>Paulus, when the OO sticks to news, they generally do it quite well. I&#039;m a bit dubious about this current story, though, as one of the report&#039;s authors (Peter Yeuh, I think) stated categorically that it &lt;em&gt;hadn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; been watered down.

The main problem the left has with the Murdoch press generally (although perhaps I shouldn&#039;t presume to speak for all of us) is that it is mostly opinion, and opinion of the radical right at that.

In other words, you wouldn&#039;t want to wrap your fish and chips in it for fear of taint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paulus, when the OO sticks to news, they generally do it quite well. I&#8217;m a bit dubious about this current story, though, as one of the report&#8217;s authors (Peter Yeuh, I think) stated categorically that it <em>hadn&#8217;t</em> been watered down.</p>
<p>The main problem the left has with the Murdoch press generally (although perhaps I shouldn&#8217;t presume to speak for all of us) is that it is mostly opinion, and opinion of the radical right at that.</p>
<p>In other words, you wouldn&#8217;t want to wrap your fish and chips in it for fear of taint.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulus</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211113</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211113</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; So much for the “independent” review. Now by rights this nobbling oughtta be a major scandal, but I don’t expect either Murdoch’s rag or the opposition to make any more of it. They won’t want to highlight just what a fiasco their beloved intervention was. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Australian put this up as a front page story (at a time when the news cycle is being dominated by recession fears and the government&#039;s response). It&#039;s hard to see what more they could have made of it, DD.

Given all the joy &quot;Murdoch&#039;s rag&quot; has given the left, over the last few years (l&#039;affaire Haneef, the wheat scandal, children overboard, etc), it continually surprises me that the left isn&#039;t a bit more grateful.

Ah well, if you want quality, unbiased journalism, I guess there&#039;s always Green Left Weekly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> So much for the “independent” review. Now by rights this nobbling oughtta be a major scandal, but I don’t expect either Murdoch’s rag or the opposition to make any more of it. They won’t want to highlight just what a fiasco their beloved intervention was. </p></blockquote>
<p>The Australian put this up as a front page story (at a time when the news cycle is being dominated by recession fears and the government&#8217;s response). It&#8217;s hard to see what more they could have made of it, DD.</p>
<p>Given all the joy &#8220;Murdoch&#8217;s rag&#8221; has given the left, over the last few years (l&#8217;affaire Haneef, the wheat scandal, children overboard, etc), it continually surprises me that the left isn&#8217;t a bit more grateful.</p>
<p>Ah well, if you want quality, unbiased journalism, I guess there&#8217;s always Green Left Weekly.</p>
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		<title>By: professor rat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211112</link>
		<dc:creator>professor rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 03:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211112</guid>
		<description>First the army came for all the bongs and I&#039;d stopped smoking, so I said nothing.
Then the army came for all the porn-stashes, and I said nothing because I was an old man.
Then they came for all the money and I had to go to a Rein-style churn-shop day-after-day jsut to get food-stamps.
Then they came for me to relocate me in a cattle-truck and there was no one left to speak for me except Jenny Macklin&#039;s central policy unit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First the army came for all the bongs and I&#8217;d stopped smoking, so I said nothing.<br />
Then the army came for all the porn-stashes, and I said nothing because I was an old man.<br />
Then they came for all the money and I had to go to a Rein-style churn-shop day-after-day jsut to get food-stamps.<br />
Then they came for me to relocate me in a cattle-truck and there was no one left to speak for me except Jenny Macklin&#8217;s central policy unit.</p>
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		<title>By: danny</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211111</link>
		<dc:creator>danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211111</guid>
		<description>Thank you Kim, and especially Ken. I reckon the problem youse point out, that of adversarialism being the dominant paradigm of &quot;our&quot; culture, is just about the &lt;strike&gt; mother &lt;/strike&gt; parent of all problems, &lt;blockquote&gt;tho&#039; Jesus&#039; reported insight, Tim 6.10, about love, money, root and evil, has a certain ring of plausibility about it&lt;/blockquote&gt; standing in the way of forward.
What a wag hey, whoever it was thought it&#039;d be a great joke to call this a CommonWealth

Is it that it is vrai, that the French legal system is predicated on the idea of the judges&#039; job is to get at the truth, actively investigative? This whole fetish &quot;our&quot; system has with the a priori rule of  precedent has got knobs on it, tending as it does to make to two or more wrongs a right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Kim, and especially Ken. I reckon the problem youse point out, that of adversarialism being the dominant paradigm of &#8220;our&#8221; culture, is just about the <strike> mother </strike> parent of all problems,<br />
<blockquote>tho&#8217; Jesus&#8217; reported insight, Tim 6.10, about love, money, root and evil, has a certain ring of plausibility about it</p></blockquote>
<p> standing in the way of forward.<br />
What a wag hey, whoever it was thought it&#8217;d be a great joke to call this a CommonWealth</p>
<p>Is it that it is vrai, that the French legal system is predicated on the idea of the judges&#8217; job is to get at the truth, actively investigative? This whole fetish &#8220;our&#8221; system has with the a priori rule of  precedent has got knobs on it, tending as it does to make to two or more wrongs a right.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211110</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/10/15/review-into-the-nt-intervention-on-not-reading-and-stereotyped-debates/#comment-211110</guid>
		<description>Ken L said &quot;In a culture like that there’s no point in reading boring reports or having an open mind about what the other side is actually saying. All you have to do is note who is saying it and that tells you whether you agree or disagree.&quot;

That&#039;s very true Ken, but I think its worse than that - at least when it comes to Indigenous issues. People don&#039;t even pay attention to anything others on their own &#039;side&#039; are saying if it doesn&#039;t suit. It&#039;s why I keep pointing to Pearson&#039;s comments - and he made plenty of them at the time - about ways the original Intervention was flawed. These were and are ignored by the pro-Howard crowd.

It is entrenched in symbolism that we can have Tony Abbott still rejecting ANY criticism or modification, despite the obvious fact that even with the best proces in the world - and this certainly didn&#039;t even come near that - there are bound to be areas that need to be modified.

All of which means that such people don&#039;t really give a shit about what is best for Aboriginal people - children or otherwise - they are just interested in winning the &#039;debate&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken L said &#8220;In a culture like that there’s no point in reading boring reports or having an open mind about what the other side is actually saying. All you have to do is note who is saying it and that tells you whether you agree or disagree.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s very true Ken, but I think its worse than that &#8211; at least when it comes to Indigenous issues. People don&#8217;t even pay attention to anything others on their own &#8216;side&#8217; are saying if it doesn&#8217;t suit. It&#8217;s why I keep pointing to Pearson&#8217;s comments &#8211; and he made plenty of them at the time &#8211; about ways the original Intervention was flawed. These were and are ignored by the pro-Howard crowd.</p>
<p>It is entrenched in symbolism that we can have Tony Abbott still rejecting ANY criticism or modification, despite the obvious fact that even with the best proces in the world &#8211; and this certainly didn&#8217;t even come near that &#8211; there are bound to be areas that need to be modified.</p>
<p>All of which means that such people don&#8217;t really give a shit about what is best for Aboriginal people &#8211; children or otherwise &#8211; they are just interested in winning the &#8216;debate&#8217;.</p>
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