Comments on: Taxation without representation is Federal Government policy on student services

By: GoTroppo

GoTroppo — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:59:39 +0000

Razor @ 27 – Couldn’t agree more about the compulsory voting. It always seemed that the people who complain most (about the rabid left-wing extremists running the union (as most of the comments seemed to think what happens on the ABC website)) are those least likely to be bothered voting in the first place.

Also, if people want true representation, why not broaden the whole thing and go for something a little more … well, representative? Create viable representative groups – e.g. based on faculty OR student types (e.g. external students) – as a way of giving people a voice. So rather than voting for some nob you’ve never met or likely to meet, elect someone you are actually likely to pass in a corridor. That way you’re likely to get a more diverse range of people “on council” and perhaps a better chance at accountability.

Also, we don’t expect our pollies to “do the math” on budgets etc – all this is usually just a policy decision and treasury et al go off and come back with the detail. Why not do the same with the Student Associations? Take away their direct control of money and instead, allow them to set policy directions and hand over the funding the beauracrats who do it day in, day out?

I’d suggest that these student associations need to go out there and start advocating for students. I was at a block mode course a few years ago at JCU – during January when no-one else was there. Here we were paying full fees only to find no services available. The computer labs were all locked – the Library was closed – the only thing open (oddly enough) was the Union Bookshop. So everyone was complaining at having paid truckloads and not receiving any service and yet there was a) no-one to complain to (the Uni was still in “holiday mode”) nor was there anyone (other than the poor faculty staff) to hear our complaints. In this age of “user pays”, perhaps the Student Associations should be looking at “consumer advocacy” as a way of winning over punters!!!

By: Adrien

Adrien — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:49:33 +0000

Paul – Most of the funds handled by student unions are spent employing staff and office-bearers
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True but consider one position on the GUSRC executive which was created as a political job – the Committees Liaison Officer. This position was obstensibly about creating some collective focus to the myriad student reps on various Uni committees with the view to enhancing the student voice. Fine in theory. Consider however that you’d need some years of experience in the Uni bureaucracy to do it effectively and it seems a tad like horseshit. Not impuning those who’ve attempted it including present company and my brother.
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Still the fact was that it was a job created for a particular student hack that was turned into an elected position (to thwart him) and then proceeded from thence to be a mostly useless expenditure. Sometimes SRC employment is political.
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Student unions have been seen as prime training territory for outside political groups particularly the ALP but also various activist groups from the Left some of whom I recall were less than honest in their dealings. Liberals tend to simply want to destroy these organizations. Or did before VSU.
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Likewise consider the sheer and immense waste of mundane NUS shennanegans wherein delegates and office bearers whose prime loyalty was to the factions leading to post-graduation employment displayed such callous disregard for their constituency that they specifically excluded them from even witnessing the proceedings at conference and even had the temerity to limit debate on the issue to the bare minimum before pushing it thru.
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This move seems to be in continuation of the ALP’s tradition of deploying the worst of both worlds for the sole purposes of pork provision. On the one hand students are required to pay a compulsory fee for services they may choose to seek elsewhere. On the other hand their capacity to manage their own money is severely limited and their ability to represent themselves is only allowed on the basis that they are ‘not political’. Not political can mean whatever you want it to.
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What I see happening is the progressive exclusion of any ‘non-mainstream’ candidature in SRCs leading to them being the sole province of the ALP’s Right (so they strategize) who will indulge themselves in ‘non-political’ ways (including as at Melb U bankrupting the place) whilst doing their best to not rock the boat that leads to the plum job in Canberra because of some spurious requirement that they, um, represent students.
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You pay, no say! Bollocks!

By: Adrien

Adrien — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:33:40 +0000

Paul – …some tens of thousands of dollars worth of beverages going unaccountably missing from the Griffith University SRC in the early 1990s
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It wasn’t missing. It was in that cabinet you commie! And it was hundreds of thousands of dollars wasn’t it? I do regret hassling that pizza-faced pile of spare tires (what’s his name). He wasn’t ripping off his constituency in collusion with that Mt Gravatt ~~yobbo watering hole~~ pub he worked at. He was just providing students with what they wanted – ten bottles of Macallan single malt.
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And you must admit that the ensuing witch hunt was shameful, shameful considering that the fine administrators of the GUSRC went on to be such avatars of good government and sound democratic practice.

By: Razor

Razor — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:52:14 +0000

I atended Uni under both CSU in the mid 80′s and VSU in the late 90′s. Under VSU the available services were much more customer orientated than under CSU.

They are saying students under the proposed scheme will be able to pay off in a HECS style deferred payment. If that is going to be the case why don’t they just increase all fees by a prorata amount which the Unis can then distribute – seems the same outcome for a lot less buggering around.

If they insist in bringing back CSU, then they should at least also impose compulsory voting in student elections (no vote – no exam results).

Hopefully the agrarian socialists (Barnaby!!) won’t kick the traces and the Independents won’t allow this retrograde step – which is a broken promise – the ALP said they would not reimpose CSU – liars.

By: Darin

Darin — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:30:22 +0000

I was just thinking about the “turgid tome” today while poking around the local book shop. We need an open thread for photos of the most reduced price for teh memoirs. Google really needs a record of the decline in the smirky one’s fortunes.

By: Evan

Evan — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:19:49 +0000

Deep Liberal Thinkers? That’d be Alexander Downer.

Socrates with a lisp.

The libs have had a fetish about how Students deal with Union dosh since what currently passes for their leadership was at Uni in the ’70′s.

I well recall people like Costello and the Krogers at Monash trying to stop the U making pitifully-small donations to people like Fretlin, so that they could afford to keep Jose Ramos Horta in cheeseburgers while he traipsed around the world trying to drum-up some support for his people, all the while living out of a suitcase.

Outrageous, they said.

Well, I guess it worked-out OK in the end.

Horta got the Nobel prize and became President of his country while Cossie is a has-been who can’t even flog his turgid tome.

By: Ambigulous

Ambigulous — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:14:17 +0000

paul walter: I meant I could pretend to be a Liberal Deep Thinker, just like those pollies pretended to be authors. I didn’t mean to suggest that any Liberal Deep Thinkers exist. I’d want to see some evidence.

Tone at least writes his own essays. And it’s interesting to see that the NCC has adopted the Trots’ “entrism” technique and got Tone right into the heart of the Liberal Party.

Actually, the old BA Santamaria WAS a deep thinker, in an old-fashioned European style. Never fitted in here in Australia really, but boy: what an amazing conspirator.

By: Chumpai

Chumpai — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:08:39 +0000

I’m just about to finish my undergraduate degree and I’ve had experience of both VSU and compulsory fees. I was at Monash uni and for the first two years of my undergrad I was charged ~$400 a year. After VSU the main differences for me personally was that I got far less free food and the gym prices went up (ironically I stopped going to the gym even though it was technically more affordable for me).

I found the extra cash incredibly helpful, however, I did notice how difficult it was for the student organisations to keep going, particularly the office bearers who were suddenly paid a pittance.

Regarding this new proposal, I think it all comes down to what the money can be spent on. If the money can only be spent on upgrading computers or maintaining lecture theaters then there’s no point giving the money to the student union to spend unless the union performs those functions. If however, it can go to subsidising health or child care for students then it makes logical sense for students to be able at least able to vote for where their funds should go if not dispense it themselves.

As a random thought, if the money does go to the union may I suggest that students be able to vote for how much they pay? :p

By: Ambigulous

Ambigulous — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:04:50 +0000

Liberal …. collective … ?????

By: Antonio

Antonio — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:48:42 +0000

Mark, that model has stood the test of time! It’s STILL the way the UQU operates some 20+ years later (except that S&F committee is now called administrative committee).

With regard to restructuring for input, this year the Lib-controlled UQU changed all committees (except Admin, Clubs & Socs) to a collective style model where any student could participate and vote.