<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: More developments in online independent media</title>
	<atom:link href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:11:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205311</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205311</guid>
		<description>Kevin Rennie - &lt;i&gt;I take it you’ve read The Blogging Revolution then.&lt;/i&gt;
.
As I said -  no. I read the intro and a random chapter when trying decide whether a polemical book&#039;s worth buying. Usually not.
.
But I went back and read another chapter of &lt;i&gt;The Blogging Revolution&lt;/i&gt; to be fair. I&#039;d read the chapter on Egypt &#039;cause I used to live there and visit the blogs occassionly. I read the chapter on Iran.
.
It&#039;s just like the one on Egypt. Only worse. Like that chapter the Iran chapter takes up half its space with a cursory and not-too-insightful run-down of the context interspersed with the inevitable distaste that we in the new world have for the filthy urbane environs of a Mid-East city. These are not particularly illustrative and lack either the deft analysis of Chris Hitchens or the provocational (and intentionally chauvaunistic) humour of PJ O&#039;Rourke. Needless to say he writes not as well as either of these chaps. And he begins a nauseating number of sentences with the phrase &#039;It is&#039;, or its conjunction. I found it dead prose.
.
The rest hardly touches on blogging really. A lot of it&#039;s soundbytes from books and TV. And then there&#039;s the uninspiring contact-with-the-locals anecdotes. In the beginning Lowenstein makes the extraordinary  declaration that:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Aside from North Korea, there is perhaps no other country on the planet that is more misunderstood than Iran&lt;/blockquote&gt;
p21
_
Now Iran &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; misunderstood. I don&#039;t think it even understands itself really. But North Korea? What&#039;s to understand? China, Japan, Russia, several African nations, France even - are much better candidates than N Korea for misunderstanding. The information from the land of Kim Jong-il is entirely consistent in its portrayal of a failing Stalinist state. Iran doesn&#039;t compare. Lowenstein&#039;s perfectly entitled to make this statement but he doesn&#039;t back it up at all. We&#039;re just supposed to take his word for it.
.
Lowenstein correctly points out the impact of the CIA-led removal of Mossadegh in 1953. He likewise is correct in stating that the 1979 revolution was not entirely inspired by Islamist ideology. However, and this impacts negatively on his elucidation of the Egyptian situation, he doesn&#039;t care to explain how a relatively modern country with a strong middle-class came to be a Theocracy. Nor does he understand that the theocratic elements are one tier amongst three of Iranian authority. The others being the government and the military.
.
One thing that was interesting is that he visited a Jewish community in Tehran. Iran, as he points out, has the largest ME Jewish diaspora outside Israel. He doesn&#039;t however explore the contradictions between this phenomena and the fact that &lt;i&gt;Protocols of the Elders of Zion&lt;/i&gt; is read widely even by determinedly secular people. He gets asked by some such whether he, as a Jew, find it easy to get work in America (because they&#039;re in control don&#039;t you know). He denies this a little too flatly I thought. Backing off &lt;i&gt;My Israel Question&lt;/i&gt; perchance?
.
When he introduces the section on his interaction with Iranian Jews he begins with something especially sloppy:

&lt;blockquote&gt;While I was in Iran, I met blogger Mohammed a twenty-five year old with a neatly trimmed goatee. He asked that I didn&#039;t reveal his name in print...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
p 47
_
There are no quotes around &#039;Mohammed&#039; nor is there a note telling us it&#039;s not his real name. Mr Lowenstein has been accused by such as Andrew Bolt of being a somewhat, ahem, unethical journalist. I can only s&#039;pose Lowenstein&#039;s pleased to feed the troll.  For some reason there&#039;s a footnote attached to the (yet another) banal notation of the goatee. When you flip to it, it tells you that this anecdote about meeting Mohammed in a cafe is sourced from a meeting Lowenstein had with Mohammed in a cafe!
.
Thanks for that Tony. Just in case I missed it the first time.
.
It&#039;s interesting to note that he begins by telling us that this happened &#039;while he was in Iran&#039;. The section appears well into the chapter on Iran, we&#039;re already well-used to his being there and he hasn&#039;t told us he&#039;s left. Again what for? The fact that Mohammed has nothing to do with the Jewish diaspora makes it somewhat mysterious that he&#039;s there introducing the section. I s&#039;pose Lowenstein&#039;s gotta drop in a blogger every now and then. After all he hardly refers to them.
.
He&#039;s a disciple of Pilger and Chomsky. Like them however there&#039;s no real appreciation of the &lt;i&gt;realpolitik&lt;/i&gt; realities. I don&#039;t fault Pilger for this, his task is to tell stories other journalists don&#039;t and he tends to succeed. Chomsky is an unabashed idealist who appears to simply believe that Utopia is possible simply by an effort of will.
.
The contradictions between America&#039;s stated values and its foreign policy are well established themes of historical scholarship. If Lowenstein wants to follow the path blazed by Pilger he&#039;d do well to have a look at the work of Charles Beard or WA Williams. Andrew Bacevich even. But no. He&#039;s John Pilger without the rigour, the powerful interviewing technique or the previously uncovered information. All he&#039;s got is the radical posture and and the travel perks. Most of the book is basic stuff one could write better from a desk in Australia. The local encounters are insubstantial, the analysis doesn&#039;t exist, the understanding of blogs is minimal and he doesn&#039;t even write well.
.
He&#039;s a wanker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Rennie &#8211; <i>I take it you’ve read The Blogging Revolution then.</i><br />
.<br />
As I said &#8211;  no. I read the intro and a random chapter when trying decide whether a polemical book&#8217;s worth buying. Usually not.<br />
.<br />
But I went back and read another chapter of <i>The Blogging Revolution</i> to be fair. I&#8217;d read the chapter on Egypt &#8217;cause I used to live there and visit the blogs occassionly. I read the chapter on Iran.<br />
.<br />
It&#8217;s just like the one on Egypt. Only worse. Like that chapter the Iran chapter takes up half its space with a cursory and not-too-insightful run-down of the context interspersed with the inevitable distaste that we in the new world have for the filthy urbane environs of a Mid-East city. These are not particularly illustrative and lack either the deft analysis of Chris Hitchens or the provocational (and intentionally chauvaunistic) humour of PJ O&#8217;Rourke. Needless to say he writes not as well as either of these chaps. And he begins a nauseating number of sentences with the phrase &#8216;It is&#8217;, or its conjunction. I found it dead prose.<br />
.<br />
The rest hardly touches on blogging really. A lot of it&#8217;s soundbytes from books and TV. And then there&#8217;s the uninspiring contact-with-the-locals anecdotes. In the beginning Lowenstein makes the extraordinary  declaration that:</p>
<blockquote><p>Aside from North Korea, there is perhaps no other country on the planet that is more misunderstood than Iran</p></blockquote>
<p>p21<br />
_<br />
Now Iran <i>is</i> misunderstood. I don&#8217;t think it even understands itself really. But North Korea? What&#8217;s to understand? China, Japan, Russia, several African nations, France even &#8211; are much better candidates than N Korea for misunderstanding. The information from the land of Kim Jong-il is entirely consistent in its portrayal of a failing Stalinist state. Iran doesn&#8217;t compare. Lowenstein&#8217;s perfectly entitled to make this statement but he doesn&#8217;t back it up at all. We&#8217;re just supposed to take his word for it.<br />
.<br />
Lowenstein correctly points out the impact of the CIA-led removal of Mossadegh in 1953. He likewise is correct in stating that the 1979 revolution was not entirely inspired by Islamist ideology. However, and this impacts negatively on his elucidation of the Egyptian situation, he doesn&#8217;t care to explain how a relatively modern country with a strong middle-class came to be a Theocracy. Nor does he understand that the theocratic elements are one tier amongst three of Iranian authority. The others being the government and the military.<br />
.<br />
One thing that was interesting is that he visited a Jewish community in Tehran. Iran, as he points out, has the largest ME Jewish diaspora outside Israel. He doesn&#8217;t however explore the contradictions between this phenomena and the fact that <i>Protocols of the Elders of Zion</i> is read widely even by determinedly secular people. He gets asked by some such whether he, as a Jew, find it easy to get work in America (because they&#8217;re in control don&#8217;t you know). He denies this a little too flatly I thought. Backing off <i>My Israel Question</i> perchance?<br />
.<br />
When he introduces the section on his interaction with Iranian Jews he begins with something especially sloppy:</p>
<blockquote><p>While I was in Iran, I met blogger Mohammed a twenty-five year old with a neatly trimmed goatee. He asked that I didn&#8217;t reveal his name in print&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>p 47<br />
_<br />
There are no quotes around &#8216;Mohammed&#8217; nor is there a note telling us it&#8217;s not his real name. Mr Lowenstein has been accused by such as Andrew Bolt of being a somewhat, ahem, unethical journalist. I can only s&#8217;pose Lowenstein&#8217;s pleased to feed the troll.  For some reason there&#8217;s a footnote attached to the (yet another) banal notation of the goatee. When you flip to it, it tells you that this anecdote about meeting Mohammed in a cafe is sourced from a meeting Lowenstein had with Mohammed in a cafe!<br />
.<br />
Thanks for that Tony. Just in case I missed it the first time.<br />
.<br />
It&#8217;s interesting to note that he begins by telling us that this happened &#8216;while he was in Iran&#8217;. The section appears well into the chapter on Iran, we&#8217;re already well-used to his being there and he hasn&#8217;t told us he&#8217;s left. Again what for? The fact that Mohammed has nothing to do with the Jewish diaspora makes it somewhat mysterious that he&#8217;s there introducing the section. I s&#8217;pose Lowenstein&#8217;s gotta drop in a blogger every now and then. After all he hardly refers to them.<br />
.<br />
He&#8217;s a disciple of Pilger and Chomsky. Like them however there&#8217;s no real appreciation of the <i>realpolitik</i> realities. I don&#8217;t fault Pilger for this, his task is to tell stories other journalists don&#8217;t and he tends to succeed. Chomsky is an unabashed idealist who appears to simply believe that Utopia is possible simply by an effort of will.<br />
.<br />
The contradictions between America&#8217;s stated values and its foreign policy are well established themes of historical scholarship. If Lowenstein wants to follow the path blazed by Pilger he&#8217;d do well to have a look at the work of Charles Beard or WA Williams. Andrew Bacevich even. But no. He&#8217;s John Pilger without the rigour, the powerful interviewing technique or the previously uncovered information. All he&#8217;s got is the radical posture and and the travel perks. Most of the book is basic stuff one could write better from a desk in Australia. The local encounters are insubstantial, the analysis doesn&#8217;t exist, the understanding of blogs is minimal and he doesn&#8217;t even write well.<br />
.<br />
He&#8217;s a wanker.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205310</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 04:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205310</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I take it you’ve read The Blogging Revolution then.&lt;/i&gt;
.
I haven&#039;t read the whole thing. I read &lt;i&gt;My Israel Question&lt;/i&gt; which I thought was a really good &lt;i&gt;idea&lt;/i&gt; for a book. Like &lt;i&gt;Voltaire&#039;s Bastards&lt;/i&gt; the execution was disappointing. &lt;i&gt;The Blogging Revolution&lt;/i&gt; appears to suffer from the same sloppiness.
.
For example Lowenstein describes the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sandmonkey.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Rantings of a Sandmonkey&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; as neoconservative blog. This is inaccurate.
.
If you read Sandmonkey as I do from time to time it&#039;s pretty clear he&#039;s a libertarian. There&#039;s quite a lot of difference between a neocon and a libertarian. That said Sandmonkey is a young son of the Egyptian elite who is American educated. He takes strong exception to the nepotistic police state in which he lives even tho&#039; quite privileged within it.
.
Whereas a Neocon is a Western advocate of a strong evangelism of traditional values Sandmonkey is opposing these values at home. In fact Neocon doesn&#039;t make sense in the Middle East because there&#039;s been no social revolution analogous to that in the West beginning with the &#039;60s. Lowenstein simply quotes the glib burb on Sandmonkey&#039;s blob. He hasn&#039;t bothered to read it, to think about the application of Western political categories to Mid-East ideology or to consider that not everyone who supported the Iraq War can be described as a Neocon.
.
There&#039;s no mention of &lt;a href=&quot;http://onearabworld.blog.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Onearabworld&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; which is by a left-wing, anti-terrorist Palestinian in Egypt who, whilst advocating his peoples&#039; right, categorically opposes anti-Semitism.
.
If you read these guys whop identify with different sides of the Western ideological spectrum you&#039;ll find they have many things in common. The frustration with Egyptian bureaucracy for example. The rejection of ludicrous religion. La la la. I didn&#039;t go into his book in depth because I have little time for sloppiness and my examination of it revealed that, like &lt;i&gt;My Israel Question&lt;/i&gt;, this book to was sloppy.
.
I&#039;ll have another look at it tho&#039;. Like I say, good &lt;i&gt;idea&lt;/i&gt; for a book. The Mid East blogosphere is fascinating &#039;cause it&#039;s where the internet reaches it&#039;s real potential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I take it you’ve read The Blogging Revolution then.</i><br />
.<br />
I haven&#8217;t read the whole thing. I read <i>My Israel Question</i> which I thought was a really good <i>idea</i> for a book. Like <i>Voltaire&#8217;s Bastards</i> the execution was disappointing. <i>The Blogging Revolution</i> appears to suffer from the same sloppiness.<br />
.<br />
For example Lowenstein describes the <a href="http://www.sandmonkey.org/" rel="nofollow"><i>Rantings of a Sandmonkey</i></a> as neoconservative blog. This is inaccurate.<br />
.<br />
If you read Sandmonkey as I do from time to time it&#8217;s pretty clear he&#8217;s a libertarian. There&#8217;s quite a lot of difference between a neocon and a libertarian. That said Sandmonkey is a young son of the Egyptian elite who is American educated. He takes strong exception to the nepotistic police state in which he lives even tho&#8217; quite privileged within it.<br />
.<br />
Whereas a Neocon is a Western advocate of a strong evangelism of traditional values Sandmonkey is opposing these values at home. In fact Neocon doesn&#8217;t make sense in the Middle East because there&#8217;s been no social revolution analogous to that in the West beginning with the &#8217;60s. Lowenstein simply quotes the glib burb on Sandmonkey&#8217;s blob. He hasn&#8217;t bothered to read it, to think about the application of Western political categories to Mid-East ideology or to consider that not everyone who supported the Iraq War can be described as a Neocon.<br />
.<br />
There&#8217;s no mention of <a href="http://onearabworld.blog.com/" rel="nofollow"><i>Onearabworld</i></a> which is by a left-wing, anti-terrorist Palestinian in Egypt who, whilst advocating his peoples&#8217; right, categorically opposes anti-Semitism.<br />
.<br />
If you read these guys whop identify with different sides of the Western ideological spectrum you&#8217;ll find they have many things in common. The frustration with Egyptian bureaucracy for example. The rejection of ludicrous religion. La la la. I didn&#8217;t go into his book in depth because I have little time for sloppiness and my examination of it revealed that, like <i>My Israel Question</i>, this book to was sloppy.<br />
.<br />
I&#8217;ll have another look at it tho&#8217;. Like I say, good <i>idea</i> for a book. The Mid East blogosphere is fascinating &#8217;cause it&#8217;s where the internet reaches it&#8217;s real potential.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Rennie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205309</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Rennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205309</guid>
		<description>Adrien

I take it you&#039;ve read The Blogging Revolution then. Which chapters or parts didn&#039;t you like? Why not? Specifics would help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrien</p>
<p>I take it you&#8217;ve read The Blogging Revolution then. Which chapters or parts didn&#8217;t you like? Why not? Specifics would help.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205308</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 05:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205308</guid>
		<description>Lefty E, those spambot &quot;comments&#039; are something to do with SEO or search engine optimisation - an &quot;industry&quot; whose practicioners should all be thrown into a pit of rotting manure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lefty E, those spambot &#8220;comments&#8217; are something to do with SEO or search engine optimisation &#8211; an &#8220;industry&#8221; whose practicioners should all be thrown into a pit of rotting manure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205307</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205307</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If not I suggest reading Antony Loewenstein’s The Blogging Revolution. &lt;/i&gt;
.
Indeed another excellent example of an important topic driven into the dirt by an utter mediocrity. He&#039;s characterisation of Middle-East bloggers was apparatchnik bollocks. He&#039;s Australia&#039;s John Ralston Saul that guy. He writes books that need to be written and fucks it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If not I suggest reading Antony Loewenstein’s The Blogging Revolution. </i><br />
.<br />
Indeed another excellent example of an important topic driven into the dirt by an utter mediocrity. He&#8217;s characterisation of Middle-East bloggers was apparatchnik bollocks. He&#8217;s Australia&#8217;s John Ralston Saul that guy. He writes books that need to be written and fucks it up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Lovell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205306</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Lovell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205306</guid>
		<description>Catallaxy is one &#039;of the Big Three Australian blogs&#039;? Well I think we might have uncovered a major problem right there ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catallaxy is one &#8216;of the Big Three Australian blogs&#8217;? Well I think we might have uncovered a major problem right there &#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lefty E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205305</link>
		<dc:creator>Lefty E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205305</guid>
		<description>I spam, therefore I am.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spam, therefore I am.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205304</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205304</guid>
		<description>Zen spam.

It&#039;s about the journey, not the destination, maaaan.

bjshy34onm1, maaaaan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zen spam.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s about the journey, not the destination, maaaan.</p>
<p>bjshy34onm1, maaaaan.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lefty E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205303</link>
		<dc:creator>Lefty E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205303</guid>
		<description>But what are they spamming? Its just a number sequence.

Has spam suddenly gone all &#039;Space Oddysey&#039; on us, and won&#039;t tout products (for Dave) anymore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what are they spamming? Its just a number sequence.</p>
<p>Has spam suddenly gone all &#8216;Space Oddysey&#8217; on us, and won&#8217;t tout products (for Dave) anymore?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205302</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/11/13/more-developments-in-online-independent-media/#comment-205302</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not what I meant, Kevin. I&#039;m highly in favour of pseudonymity, the more creative the handle the better.
Pollytickedoff, I believe they were spam bots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not what I meant, Kevin. I&#8217;m highly in favour of pseudonymity, the more creative the handle the better.<br />
Pollytickedoff, I believe they were spam bots.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

