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	<title>Comments on: Good enough for Melbourne, good enough for Brisbane, say LNP and Labor?</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: KoopaTroopa</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572688</link>
		<dc:creator>KoopaTroopa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572688</guid>
		<description>Brettc @ 30:

&quot;Connex being at least part French-owned, surprisingly has contracted with the similarly French-owned Alstom to build and manage its rail infrastructure.&quot;

Alstom&#039;s maintainance/management role has since been taken over by United Group Infrastructure (an Australian company).  Actually I think they may have bought out Alstom&#039;s Australian operations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brettc @ 30:</p>
<p>&#8220;Connex being at least part French-owned, surprisingly has contracted with the similarly French-owned Alstom to build and manage its rail infrastructure.&#8221;</p>
<p>Alstom&#8217;s maintainance/management role has since been taken over by United Group Infrastructure (an Australian company).  Actually I think they may have bought out Alstom&#8217;s Australian operations.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572661</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tyro Rex @ 28 - no probs - hope to catch you @ the LP drinks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyro Rex @ 28 &#8211; no probs &#8211; hope to catch you @ the LP drinks!</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Calabrese</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572242</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Calabrese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572242</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Err, couple = 4 is my dairy farm upbringing. Whenever my Dad asked me to get a couple of nails, or a couple of anything, it ALWAYS meant at least 3. My kids grew up with the same arithmetic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or if you&#039;re Italian, its like the Joe Avati Joke about the Nonna sending her Grandson to bring in &quot;Due Patati&quot; (2 Potatoes), and the Grandson dutifully brings in 2, when she really meant 8, and thus wgot in trouble when he went to the Butchers for 2kgs of meat, he returned with 8Kgs :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Err, couple = 4 is my dairy farm upbringing. Whenever my Dad asked me to get a couple of nails, or a couple of anything, it ALWAYS meant at least 3. My kids grew up with the same arithmetic.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or if you&#8217;re Italian, its like the Joe Avati Joke about the Nonna sending her Grandson to bring in &#8220;Due Patati&#8221; (2 Potatoes), and the Grandson dutifully brings in 2, when she really meant 8, and thus wgot in trouble when he went to the Butchers for 2kgs of meat, he returned with 8Kgs <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: brettc</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572227</link>
		<dc:creator>brettc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572227</guid>
		<description>Err, couple = 4 is my dairy farm upbringing. Whenever my Dad asked me to get a couple of nails, or a couple of anything, it ALWAYS meant at least 3. My kids grew up with the same arithmetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err, couple = 4 is my dairy farm upbringing. Whenever my Dad asked me to get a couple of nails, or a couple of anything, it ALWAYS meant at least 3. My kids grew up with the same arithmetic.</p>
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		<title>By: brettc</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572219</link>
		<dc:creator>brettc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572219</guid>
		<description>Lefty E at 15: Connex being at least part French-owned, surprisingly has contracted with the similarly French-owned Alstom to build and manage its rail infrastructure. Which means all its  rolling stock happens to be built in France.

I don&#039;t know if the two companies are actually corporately linked, or if they are just joint ventures. I&#039;m sure that both being French is merely coincidental.

The other set of Melbourne rolling stock (since the privatisations) was for the M trains (Bayside, subsequently departed) and their part of the network taken over by Connex. As per my previous post about writing manuals for Hong Kong&#039;s MTRC, the same Narre Warren based company built the doors for the M trains that were built by Siemens (either in Bavaria or Austria, can&#039;t remember which built the trains cos my client was also building similar doors for whatever the other Tram company (also departed) was).

Couple of interesting (or ranty) points:

1. when Jeffrey privatised the metropolitan railway and tram networks, the successful bidders were required to build new rolling stock. There was NO provision for local content of any sort in the contracts. The winning consortia originally planned to build their tram and train rolling stock in their home countries, either by Alstom or Siemens (spelt France  and Germany/Austria). It was only after Bracks gained government that local content became an issue, which is how I ended up writing manuals for the Siemens rolling stock. (ie, if you push the button and the door pops out before it slides, I wrote its manuals). 

2. I&#039;d really like to find out whose bright idea it was to split BOTH the rail and tram networks in Melbourne into 2 entities (total of 4 different operators, originally). Just like gas, water, electricity, etc how can a &quot;competitive element&quot; exist when you essentially have monopolies, one handling east-west transport and the other handling north-south, for each of trams and trains? Surprisingly, it didn&#039;t work.

3. Just by bad luck, I suppose, I&#039;d already gone through a similarly ill-thought out privatisation: what was once Government Aircraft Factories - builders of Nomad, F/A-18, Jindivik and assorted parts for every Boeing, Airbus and Fokker aircraft you&#039;ve ever flown in (apart from you ex B-17/B-29 jockeys) - was privatised as AeroSpace Technologies of Australia. Reason for privatisation - anything GAF built involved subsidy (partly because our owner - Defence, mainly the RAAF - told us how much we could charge for anything we built for our customers (spelt RAAF), and any difference invariably ended up as subsidy. (There were also other inefficiencies, but nothing that good management could not have fixed). Anyway, if any word is bound to get front page treatment in an anti-PS/govt paper it is subsidy. No matter that the end result is ACTUAL cost.

Solution: corporatise the company so it could charge actual cost plus profit. This was supposed to result in savings to government, but the fatal flaw was evident: PLUS PROFIT(originally 15%). 

Anyway, the next decision was to fully privatise the company - enter Rockwell Aviation - and an absolute bargain was made. Subsequently, and for other reasons, Rockwell folded, to be acquired by Boeing. End result, virtually the entire Australian aerospace industry ended up, at bargain basement (and B3, not B1) prices. And still the money the RAAF etc has to pay for their purchases has only gone up. Because everything is now ACTUAL cost PLUS profit (whatever Boeing wants to charge - who else is on hand to build the stuff?)

4 Why would British Airways (virtually bankrupt) want to merge with Qantas (one of the most profitable airlines on Earth)? Of course, it&#039;s all back to the glory days of Imperial Airways/Qantas Imperial Airways of course. Couldn&#039;t be any other reason, surely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lefty E at 15: Connex being at least part French-owned, surprisingly has contracted with the similarly French-owned Alstom to build and manage its rail infrastructure. Which means all its  rolling stock happens to be built in France.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if the two companies are actually corporately linked, or if they are just joint ventures. I&#8217;m sure that both being French is merely coincidental.</p>
<p>The other set of Melbourne rolling stock (since the privatisations) was for the M trains (Bayside, subsequently departed) and their part of the network taken over by Connex. As per my previous post about writing manuals for Hong Kong&#8217;s MTRC, the same Narre Warren based company built the doors for the M trains that were built by Siemens (either in Bavaria or Austria, can&#8217;t remember which built the trains cos my client was also building similar doors for whatever the other Tram company (also departed) was).</p>
<p>Couple of interesting (or ranty) points:</p>
<p>1. when Jeffrey privatised the metropolitan railway and tram networks, the successful bidders were required to build new rolling stock. There was NO provision for local content of any sort in the contracts. The winning consortia originally planned to build their tram and train rolling stock in their home countries, either by Alstom or Siemens (spelt France  and Germany/Austria). It was only after Bracks gained government that local content became an issue, which is how I ended up writing manuals for the Siemens rolling stock. (ie, if you push the button and the door pops out before it slides, I wrote its manuals). </p>
<p>2. I&#8217;d really like to find out whose bright idea it was to split BOTH the rail and tram networks in Melbourne into 2 entities (total of 4 different operators, originally). Just like gas, water, electricity, etc how can a &#8220;competitive element&#8221; exist when you essentially have monopolies, one handling east-west transport and the other handling north-south, for each of trams and trains? Surprisingly, it didn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>3. Just by bad luck, I suppose, I&#8217;d already gone through a similarly ill-thought out privatisation: what was once Government Aircraft Factories &#8211; builders of Nomad, F/A-18, Jindivik and assorted parts for every Boeing, Airbus and Fokker aircraft you&#8217;ve ever flown in (apart from you ex B-17/B-29 jockeys) &#8211; was privatised as AeroSpace Technologies of Australia. Reason for privatisation &#8211; anything GAF built involved subsidy (partly because our owner &#8211; Defence, mainly the RAAF &#8211; told us how much we could charge for anything we built for our customers (spelt RAAF), and any difference invariably ended up as subsidy. (There were also other inefficiencies, but nothing that good management could not have fixed). Anyway, if any word is bound to get front page treatment in an anti-PS/govt paper it is subsidy. No matter that the end result is ACTUAL cost.</p>
<p>Solution: corporatise the company so it could charge actual cost plus profit. This was supposed to result in savings to government, but the fatal flaw was evident: PLUS PROFIT(originally 15%). </p>
<p>Anyway, the next decision was to fully privatise the company &#8211; enter Rockwell Aviation &#8211; and an absolute bargain was made. Subsequently, and for other reasons, Rockwell folded, to be acquired by Boeing. End result, virtually the entire Australian aerospace industry ended up, at bargain basement (and B3, not B1) prices. And still the money the RAAF etc has to pay for their purchases has only gone up. Because everything is now ACTUAL cost PLUS profit (whatever Boeing wants to charge &#8211; who else is on hand to build the stuff?)</p>
<p>4 Why would British Airways (virtually bankrupt) want to merge with Qantas (one of the most profitable airlines on Earth)? Of course, it&#8217;s all back to the glory days of Imperial Airways/Qantas Imperial Airways of course. Couldn&#8217;t be any other reason, surely?</p>
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		<title>By: brettc</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572200</link>
		<dc:creator>brettc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572200</guid>
		<description>Re Hong Kong&#039;s MTRC trains: the doors were bult in Narre Warren (Vic) by a German-owned company, shipped to Korea for adding to the trains that now operate in Hong Kong. And I wrote the installation and maintenance manuals. Isn&#039;t this gloabalised economy fun?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Hong Kong&#8217;s MTRC trains: the doors were bult in Narre Warren (Vic) by a German-owned company, shipped to Korea for adding to the trains that now operate in Hong Kong. And I wrote the installation and maintenance manuals. Isn&#8217;t this gloabalised economy fun?</p>
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		<title>By: Tyro Rex</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572159</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyro Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572159</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I was always under the impression that this was only meant to be a stop gap - that the intention was always to link to cross the river into South Brisbane - why do you think they’ve been constantly messing with the flows along Grey, Merivale and Cordelia Streets?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, I don&#039;t know. All they ever needed to do was to make an under or over pass that smoothly joined the bottom of the inner city bypass with the start of the S.E. freeway only 100 metres away, at the time they made it. The merging and de-merging with all the Coro drive traffic is what causes the congestion. A bridge across the river solves practically nothing.

As it is, living in the Brisbane inner-west, even travelling by *car* is a pain in the arse, especially when that over-egged fiddle playing Andre fucking Rieu is laying some steaming pile of poop in Lang Park this evening. Causing a massive fucking traffic jam, when I left work late with a stinking headache in a taxi (sorry Mark that&#039;s why I didn&#039;t make it to your PhD drinks). In the traffic jam on Milton Rd, some tool in a Lexus asked the taxi driver where &quot;a great place to park&quot; was!!! I mean, fuck these people.

But all that might be the codeine in the Nurofen Plus talking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I was always under the impression that this was only meant to be a stop gap &#8211; that the intention was always to link to cross the river into South Brisbane &#8211; why do you think they’ve been constantly messing with the flows along Grey, Merivale and Cordelia Streets?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, I don&#8217;t know. All they ever needed to do was to make an under or over pass that smoothly joined the bottom of the inner city bypass with the start of the S.E. freeway only 100 metres away, at the time they made it. The merging and de-merging with all the Coro drive traffic is what causes the congestion. A bridge across the river solves practically nothing.</p>
<p>As it is, living in the Brisbane inner-west, even travelling by *car* is a pain in the arse, especially when that over-egged fiddle playing Andre fucking Rieu is laying some steaming pile of poop in Lang Park this evening. Causing a massive fucking traffic jam, when I left work late with a stinking headache in a taxi (sorry Mark that&#8217;s why I didn&#8217;t make it to your PhD drinks). In the traffic jam on Milton Rd, some tool in a Lexus asked the taxi driver where &#8220;a great place to park&#8221; was!!! I mean, fuck these people.</p>
<p>But all that might be the codeine in the Nurofen Plus talking.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-572112</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-572112</guid>
		<description>Frank,
Colin could just have been assuming Carpenter had been telling the truth in his promise that they could deliver it. It should have been a reasonably safe assumption as they were the ones in a position to know.
But of course, Saint Carps would never lie, would he?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank,<br />
Colin could just have been assuming Carpenter had been telling the truth in his promise that they could deliver it. It should have been a reasonably safe assumption as they were the ones in a position to know.<br />
But of course, Saint Carps would never lie, would he?</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Calabrese</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571991</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Calabrese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571991</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Perth has the card system too - a few teething problems at first, but it works really well now. I think it’d be easier to get a free-fare hour going with a card system. Set the machines to charge $0.00 if the card is swiped between 6am-7am, etc.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But Mr Barnett finds it difficult to just that, thus justifying delaying his pre-election promise to give Seniors and Disability Pensioners free travel between 10am-3pm and all weekend.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/25/2429127.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Perth has the card system too &#8211; a few teething problems at first, but it works really well now. I think it’d be easier to get a free-fare hour going with a card system. Set the machines to charge $0.00 if the card is swiped between 6am-7am, etc.</p></blockquote>
<p>But Mr Barnett finds it difficult to just that, thus justifying delaying his pre-election promise to give Seniors and Disability Pensioners free travel between 10am-3pm and all weekend.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/25/2429127.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/25/2429127.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: GoTroppo</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571973</link>
		<dc:creator>GoTroppo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571973</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Tyro @ 16&quot;&gt;I mean what retard designed the inner city bypass to SE freeway junction so they don’t join up without a big messy traffic merge on Coro drive?&lt;/blockquote&gt;I was always under the impression that this was only meant to be a stop gap - that the intention was always to link to cross the river into South Brisbane - why do you think they&#039;ve been constantly messing with the flows along Grey, Merivale and Cordelia Streets?

I recall, gads - this was maybe 10 years ago when we last lived in Brissy - they were dumping rock into the river right in front of the Hale St/Coro Drive intersection in preparation for establishing head works for the bridge. Then all hell broke loose because the Sth Brissy folks realised they were about to have a freeway pushed through their burb and it came to a halt.

My gripe is why they&#039;ve NEVER opened up the Ekka loop to commuters? Not only could it have serviced the RBH more efficiently, but an extra stop behind Spring Hill would&#039;ve been mildly successful as well.

Of course, you still have it good compared with the rest of us. Up here in Hicksville, we have an extensive rail network pointing out in every direction (South, West and North) from the CBD yet not a commuter train to be seen. All made worse by pollies of all persuations thinking it remarkably smart to close our station, which is all of 100m from the CBD, and relocating it to the fringe of the town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Tyro @ 16"><p>I mean what retard designed the inner city bypass to SE freeway junction so they don’t join up without a big messy traffic merge on Coro drive?</p></blockquote>
<p>I was always under the impression that this was only meant to be a stop gap &#8211; that the intention was always to link to cross the river into South Brisbane &#8211; why do you think they&#8217;ve been constantly messing with the flows along Grey, Merivale and Cordelia Streets?</p>
<p>I recall, gads &#8211; this was maybe 10 years ago when we last lived in Brissy &#8211; they were dumping rock into the river right in front of the Hale St/Coro Drive intersection in preparation for establishing head works for the bridge. Then all hell broke loose because the Sth Brissy folks realised they were about to have a freeway pushed through their burb and it came to a halt.</p>
<p>My gripe is why they&#8217;ve NEVER opened up the Ekka loop to commuters? Not only could it have serviced the RBH more efficiently, but an extra stop behind Spring Hill would&#8217;ve been mildly successful as well.</p>
<p>Of course, you still have it good compared with the rest of us. Up here in Hicksville, we have an extensive rail network pointing out in every direction (South, West and North) from the CBD yet not a commuter train to be seen. All made worse by pollies of all persuations thinking it remarkably smart to close our station, which is all of 100m from the CBD, and relocating it to the fringe of the town.</p>
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		<title>By: onca</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571825</link>
		<dc:creator>onca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571825</guid>
		<description>In principle off-peak pricing on public transport is a great idea, but if you don&#039;t have the systems to implement it, i.e. The Card, then it&#039;s not going to be user friendly enough. 

I like the convenience of my monthly ticket where I don&#039;t have to worry about whether I have the right kind of ticket or not.

It also doesn&#039;t seem to have made any discernible difference to crowds on the regular peak hour trains</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In principle off-peak pricing on public transport is a great idea, but if you don&#8217;t have the systems to implement it, i.e. The Card, then it&#8217;s not going to be user friendly enough. </p>
<p>I like the convenience of my monthly ticket where I don&#8217;t have to worry about whether I have the right kind of ticket or not.</p>
<p>It also doesn&#8217;t seem to have made any discernible difference to crowds on the regular peak hour trains</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571824</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571824</guid>
		<description>Perth has the card system too - a few teething problems at first, but it works really well now. I think it&#039;d be easier to get a free-fare hour going with a card system. Set the machines to charge $0.00 if the card is swiped between 6am-7am, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perth has the card system too &#8211; a few teething problems at first, but it works really well now. I think it&#8217;d be easier to get a free-fare hour going with a card system. Set the machines to charge $0.00 if the card is swiped between 6am-7am, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin B</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571767</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571767</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In Melbun it’s rubbish - the free fare (not “fair”, BTW) only applies to people with certain types of tickets, and there are irritating caveats about late, delayed and cancelled trains that only a bureaucrat could understand. There’s no evening “free” period either. One problem is that buying the required ticket and missing one free trip but buying a single-day ticket to replace it eliminates the saving.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t disagree with the overall analysis, but it&#039;s not actually as complicated as that.

You need to get a ticket for the free fare, but the ticket is actually free (and is a 10x2hr ticket, so allows 10 journeys.)

The ticket covers trips that are scheduled to arrive by 7am, and allowances are made for delayed services, but not for cancelled services.

There was some unfortunate publicity recently when just before 7am some Inspectors got on a train which had in fact been delayed and started hassling people with free fare tickets, but it seems that they were wrong - not that that is any comfort to said hassled passengers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In Melbun it’s rubbish &#8211; the free fare (not “fair”, BTW) only applies to people with certain types of tickets, and there are irritating caveats about late, delayed and cancelled trains that only a bureaucrat could understand. There’s no evening “free” period either. One problem is that buying the required ticket and missing one free trip but buying a single-day ticket to replace it eliminates the saving.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with the overall analysis, but it&#8217;s not actually as complicated as that.</p>
<p>You need to get a ticket for the free fare, but the ticket is actually free (and is a 10&#215;2hr ticket, so allows 10 journeys.)</p>
<p>The ticket covers trips that are scheduled to arrive by 7am, and allowances are made for delayed services, but not for cancelled services.</p>
<p>There was some unfortunate publicity recently when just before 7am some Inspectors got on a train which had in fact been delayed and started hassling people with free fare tickets, but it seems that they were wrong &#8211; not that that is any comfort to said hassled passengers.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyro Rex</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571694</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyro Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571694</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Tyro, I was under the impression that the Tank St Bridge would have connecting ramps to the Bicentennial Bikeway.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sam, after looking at the drawings it does look like it&#039;s got a long ramp that comes up to it from the eastern side only. It connects to the ramp about 160meters east of it (to the old part under the freeway, not the over-river walkway). The documentation seems to imply the whole bridge&#039;s purpose to make a &quot;loop&quot; with Goodwill Bridge, not actually really solve anyone&#039;s foot or bike transport needs. Although it might do that, a bit, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Tyro, I was under the impression that the Tank St Bridge would have connecting ramps to the Bicentennial Bikeway.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Sam, after looking at the drawings it does look like it&#8217;s got a long ramp that comes up to it from the eastern side only. It connects to the ramp about 160meters east of it (to the old part under the freeway, not the over-river walkway). The documentation seems to imply the whole bridge&#8217;s purpose to make a &#8220;loop&#8221; with Goodwill Bridge, not actually really solve anyone&#8217;s foot or bike transport needs. Although it might do that, a bit, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571648</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571648</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tyro.

Sorry, didn&#039;t realise Brisbane already has The Card. (My Singapore sampling was from 1994, forsooth.) Melbourne, as so often, lags behind. Vic Govt hasn&#039;t yet got The Card working. Blames the contractors. 

But such inconvenient facts would never prevent a Melburnian feeling smug and superior, esp towards Brisbane; that&#039;s something we specialise in. Plus ca change.

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tyro.</p>
<p>Sorry, didn&#8217;t realise Brisbane already has The Card. (My Singapore sampling was from 1994, forsooth.) Melbourne, as so often, lags behind. Vic Govt hasn&#8217;t yet got The Card working. Blames the contractors. </p>
<p>But such inconvenient facts would never prevent a Melburnian feeling smug and superior, esp towards Brisbane; that&#8217;s something we specialise in. Plus ca change.<br />
 <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571506</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571506</guid>
		<description>Tyro Rex @ 16 - western suburbs public transport problems are absolutely endemic, and most attempts to fix them have been quick fixes and basically sucked. It&#039;s actually one of the big reasons I moved from St Lucia to New Farm in 02!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyro Rex @ 16 &#8211; western suburbs public transport problems are absolutely endemic, and most attempts to fix them have been quick fixes and basically sucked. It&#8217;s actually one of the big reasons I moved from St Lucia to New Farm in 02!</p>
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		<title>By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571494</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out of Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571494</guid>
		<description>The thing that shits me the &lt;i&gt;most&lt;/i&gt; about the LNP? There doesn&#039;t seem to anyone bright enough to whisper in the Borg&#039;s ear: &quot;The metro&#039;s a goer.&quot; Instead, we get farting around with the uncosted and underwhelming free off-peak fares. And extra carriages on trains? Which bright spark thought of that? Obviously not someone that rides the trains, because even Brisbane Central can only take 6 at a time. 

Seriously - if there are any LibNat apparatchiks reading this (and there must be &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt;), spruik up for the Brisbane underground. Propose it, cost it, and build the fucking thing. It&#039;s probably the only thing at this point that would result in a LNP landslide. &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt;&#039;d vote for it. And for the love of god, don&#039;t make it a PPP!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that shits me the <i>most</i> about the LNP? There doesn&#8217;t seem to anyone bright enough to whisper in the Borg&#8217;s ear: &#8220;The metro&#8217;s a goer.&#8221; Instead, we get farting around with the uncosted and underwhelming free off-peak fares. And extra carriages on trains? Which bright spark thought of that? Obviously not someone that rides the trains, because even Brisbane Central can only take 6 at a time. </p>
<p>Seriously &#8211; if there are any LibNat apparatchiks reading this (and there must be <i>some</i>), spruik up for the Brisbane underground. Propose it, cost it, and build the fucking thing. It&#8217;s probably the only thing at this point that would result in a LNP landslide. <i>I</i>&#8216;d vote for it. And for the love of god, don&#8217;t make it a PPP!</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Clifford</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571490</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571490</guid>
		<description>Tyro, I was under the impression that the Tank St Bridge would have connecting ramps to the Bicentennial Bikeway. The big problems with CBD bridges for cyclists in that area are that the Grey St Bridge doesn&#039;t connect to the Bicentennial and the bike lane shoves you up on to the footpath, the Victoria Bridge forces you to choose between sharing with pedestrians or traffic and the Captain Cook Bridge has no cycling facilities at all, necessating a round-about trip from the Goodwill Bridge to the SE Freeway bikeway.

Newman wants to introduce a bike sharing scheme but there&#039;s not really anywhere to ride them. If he&#039;s going to build the NSBT we need a congestion zone in the CBD with some separated (Copenhagen) bike lanes to make riding safe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyro, I was under the impression that the Tank St Bridge would have connecting ramps to the Bicentennial Bikeway. The big problems with CBD bridges for cyclists in that area are that the Grey St Bridge doesn&#8217;t connect to the Bicentennial and the bike lane shoves you up on to the footpath, the Victoria Bridge forces you to choose between sharing with pedestrians or traffic and the Captain Cook Bridge has no cycling facilities at all, necessating a round-about trip from the Goodwill Bridge to the SE Freeway bikeway.</p>
<p>Newman wants to introduce a bike sharing scheme but there&#8217;s not really anywhere to ride them. If he&#8217;s going to build the NSBT we need a congestion zone in the CBD with some separated (Copenhagen) bike lanes to make riding safe.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyro Rex</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571460</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyro Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571460</guid>
		<description>Mark

Re: the bus routes, in my experience getting from inner west to south brisbane for example is a fscking nightmare. the only bus that goes there is the 444 moggill buz and it only runs along coro drive. There&#039;s nothing on Milton Rd. Oh except if I want to go to Tenerife then it&#039;s just the one bus. On the train from south bris to auchenflower station it&#039;s three stops and one change and 40 minutes even in peak hour. I just walk over the Vic bridge to/from the city it&#039;s the only real option and gives me my daily exercise.

I note however that for tomorrow night I can walk out my office door 30m to the bus stop and get a 199 all the way to the valley.

Part of the issue with the inner west also is all the bullshit freeway work. I mean what retard designed the inner city bypass to SE freeway junction so they don&#039;t join up without a big messy traffic merge on Coro drive? They are insane. It is a half-arsed mess. And now they are building another half arsed mess with that stupid hale st link which only transports the problem 100 metres across the river and builds a bridge where there already is one! Not to mention the northern link, which on the Toowong end, is a monster set of eight lane feeder roads just chopping down half of the back of Toowong. Both Can-Do Campbell initiatives I gather and telling of the sort of disaster the LNP will visit on us from state government.

Also as far as I can see that new footbridge going across on the east side of the Grey St  Bridge from the city to the art gallery, what point is that if it doesn&#039;t connect to the bicentennial bikeway? What did the beaks in the court complex want their own personal foot bridge to the art gallery for after adjournment? Is that it? It&#039;s also not like there are no other bridges that can take foot and bike traffic in the area! Just another big chunk of ill-thought civil engineering. Looks impressive I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>Re: the bus routes, in my experience getting from inner west to south brisbane for example is a fscking nightmare. the only bus that goes there is the 444 moggill buz and it only runs along coro drive. There&#8217;s nothing on Milton Rd. Oh except if I want to go to Tenerife then it&#8217;s just the one bus. On the train from south bris to auchenflower station it&#8217;s three stops and one change and 40 minutes even in peak hour. I just walk over the Vic bridge to/from the city it&#8217;s the only real option and gives me my daily exercise.</p>
<p>I note however that for tomorrow night I can walk out my office door 30m to the bus stop and get a 199 all the way to the valley.</p>
<p>Part of the issue with the inner west also is all the bullshit freeway work. I mean what retard designed the inner city bypass to SE freeway junction so they don&#8217;t join up without a big messy traffic merge on Coro drive? They are insane. It is a half-arsed mess. And now they are building another half arsed mess with that stupid hale st link which only transports the problem 100 metres across the river and builds a bridge where there already is one! Not to mention the northern link, which on the Toowong end, is a monster set of eight lane feeder roads just chopping down half of the back of Toowong. Both Can-Do Campbell initiatives I gather and telling of the sort of disaster the LNP will visit on us from state government.</p>
<p>Also as far as I can see that new footbridge going across on the east side of the Grey St  Bridge from the city to the art gallery, what point is that if it doesn&#8217;t connect to the bicentennial bikeway? What did the beaks in the court complex want their own personal foot bridge to the art gallery for after adjournment? Is that it? It&#8217;s also not like there are no other bridges that can take foot and bike traffic in the area! Just another big chunk of ill-thought civil engineering. Looks impressive I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Lefty E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-571445</link>
		<dc:creator>Lefty E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/12/02/good-enough-for-melbourne-good-enough-for-brisbane-say-lnp-and-labor/#comment-571445</guid>
		<description>Somebody call the Japanese in. They may be from space, but they&#039;ll damn well fix your public transport problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody call the Japanese in. They may be from space, but they&#8217;ll damn well fix your public transport problems.</p>
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