[Via Public Polity] There’s a rally protesting the Clean Feed internet censorship plan in Brisbane Square on Saturday from 11am to 3pm.
I support the cause, but I won’t be there. I’m aware of three other protest rallies and marches in Brisbane over the last month or so, and participants reported a condition close to heat exhaustion, no matter how behatted and water bottled. Saturday’s maximum temperature is forecast to be 33 and it’s bound to be over 30, with probably very high humidity all through the rally (and what’s with a four hour rally, anyway?). I just walked home from the bus stop – about three minutes’ walk – and even with a bit of shade and a slight breeze, at 28 degrees with a searing sun and very muggy conditions, that was an unpleasant three minutes. I was arguing in various activist communities as early as the mid 90s that the rally/march model had had its day. With all due respect to the organisers, no one sane would advise anyone to stand around for an hour in the middle of the day at the height of Brisbane summer. Shade in Brisbane square is about nil. There are actually serious health risks.
Surely net-savvy folk can find much more creative ways of making their point, and as I do recognise that it’s often worth gathering people together in physical space, whatever’s wrong with a night time vigil or sunset gathering on the grass? At best this rally will achieve a short grab on the news. Activists need to think much more innovatively, and also take into account the bloody climate!
This has been my complaint about rallies in Brisbane for quite a while. If we must have them, can we have them either in winter, or in the evening.
mad dogs and Englishmen, etc
Yeah and Saturday is the only day I have to get the groceries done, and just about every other household chore. Plus it being Xmas, I have a xmas bbq that night followed by LP drinks Sunday.
You’d think something like 5.30 pm on a weekday would be a better time. I could attend that.
Now here is a cooler way to let Conroy know how unhappy we are about his idiotic plan. Commentary on the new government “blog” site is already making him very aware that many punters are extremely miffed . ABC news has already reported on the strong advice he has been getting.
http://www.dbcde.gov.au/communications_for_business/industry_development/digital_economy/future_directions_blog
Give it to him folks.
Actually no don’t. Well it’s probably too late but comments about the filter are swamping any other debate about the ‘digital economy’ and other Government IT&C policy. Some of which just might of equal importance to the filter, which will probably never see the light of day.
Activists need to think much more innovatively
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Yeah I used to say that when I did activism. I have a suspicion it has something to do with people who like the sound of their voice amplified and think people actually want to listen to speeches.
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In fact that’s a really good question Mark. How do you do online activism? Ideas? This would cut across the political spectrum, there’s a lot of opposition to this
stupid peace of knee-jerk toadying to bullshit values agendassensible and moderate measure by the Milky Bar Kid.Aha. So, our eternal enemies, the Forces of Sweetness and Light, won’t oppose our latest outrage because it’s too hot and they need to buy the groceries. This is just too easy.
I feel like celebrating. Chuck another unicorn into the piranha tank. Maybe a panda, too.
We’re not your enemies. We love you.
Get Up is a rather modern way to “think much more innovatively” I thought:
https://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet&id=465
An online petition and a live rally are two different things that serve different goals.
I will be attending the rally in Melbourne because – like it or lump it – people on the news mean a lot more to our moronic elected representatives then an email petition – although I signed that as well. Stephen Conroy presents as techno-savvy in person.
Writing a letter – a personal letter – to your local ALP member or Senator will get more attention than a petition. Petitions get binned. A letter, they have to think about for at least 30 seconds.
And you know forces of darkness, without groceries I don’t eat for the week.
“Writing a letter – a personal letter – to your local ALP member or Senator will get more attention than a petition.”
Or try to make an appointment to speak to someone in their office.
I’ll be there. Perhaps I should get an umbrella hat or something. I’ll definitely be slip, slop, slapping and then sauntering in to the nearest pub afterwards for a nice, cold beer.
@billie:
Stephen Conroy presents as techno-savvy in person
I’m unconvinced. His whole filter strategy involves pretending that “the Web” is equivalent to “the internet”. Nobody who is truly tech-savvy could make that elementary mistake?
Now, if his filter goes through and leads to the expected slowed connection speeds I know that setting my computer to access an unfiltered offshore proxy server tobypass the filter will only take a few minutes of my time. How long do the pearl-clutching brigade think it will take the actual child pornographers to learn to do the same? Or kids to learn to do the same simply to access their favourite gaming sites at faster connection speeds?
The heat and the length of time you’re standing in it are two good reasons not to go. Another is the completely silly things you find yourself doing at rallies – like repeating silly slogans ad nauseum, or deciding that you need to have 6 different balloons, 4 bumper stickers, 2 placards and 17 leaflets from the International Socialists.
“like repeating silly slogans ad nauseum”
The one rally I’ve attended, in Fed Square, it was about 42 degrees and the crowd was having none of the silly slogan chanting
Keep in mind, GetUp! just spent thousands advertising a fund raiser to raise tens of thousands to .. inform online users about censorship and get them to sign an e-petition that isn’t even valid in Australia.
EVERYONE ONLINE KNOWS! Not one petition that’s come forward for this has been signed by me because they are all invalid. Heck there’s a cut and paste template on the parliament website of how to not be doinitrong.
These rallies are more about engaging the majority of people who are ignorant net users / IRL folks more than us nerdy types. While not leaving our basement to defend our rights is a common thing though; you won’t find me skipping this to go shopping.
One problem is that mass public action helps people feel that their protests are successful and connected. It also encourages an “action” mentality towards social change. Petitioning, donating, and letter writing leave people feeling disconnected, and encourage a “go beg your father” mentality towards social change.
Obviously protests can be as disempowering as any other alienated social forum. But until a blog flood of the dbcde blogs makes the Channel 10 news, I’m sticking with protesting as part of the arsenal of democracy.
Sadly, democracy doesn’t happen at our personal convenience.
No, I don’t buy that, David. It’s at someone’s personal convenience to have it at 11am on a 30+ Saturday. I don’t see it as quibbling to suggest that it might be held at a time when people aren’t going to drop dead from heat exhaustion.
If the purpose is visibility, then doing it when there are people around would be sensible too.
Although I guess there’s the news cycle to think of – more important than on-location eyeballs?
Mark wrote:
Is that a “one hand clapping” protest or a “tree falling in forest” protest Mark? I can’t make up my mind.
I agree with your points Mark. I think rallies have their place, but are overused and certainly need to consider conditions.
However, the main reason I won’t be there is that I can’t take this threat seriously. If it goes through it will be such a disaster that I think Labor has to be bluffing. Either that or they know the Libs will sink it and are just playing wedge politics.
Does anyone seriously think they’re willing to risk the outrage they’re going to cop when kids can’t access Wikipedia and even the pages they can reach are running at half speed?
More detail on my take: http://rapturousthinking.blogspot.com/2008/11/are-they-really-that-dumb.html
Note to self: when I take over the world, make sure global warming continues unabated. Then I am sure to stop all of those angry protesters without having to shoot them.
I think the general letters sent to MPs via the internet do have some impact. I sent our local member Tony Windsor a Get up generated letter on this, which I haven’r received a reply for yet, but I did get two replies about the protest I sent via the CFMEU about the ABCC, where he informed me my concerns had been passed onto Julia Gillard. He said he would take my comments on board when dealing with the issue. I assume I will get a similar response on the controlling of teh Internet issue and am eagerly awaiting it.
Protest is a ritual which is tolerate because entirely symbolic. Even the Iraq War protests which must’ve boasted a considerable percentage of the national population didn;t change government policy. Two things do: booting them out and obstructing them.
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This is how it’s done.
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I’d suggest showing the govt how easy it is to get around their Stalinist bullshit by getting around it and shoving it in their face. And then ratcheting up the economic costs and billing Conroy the Catholic Crusader for it.
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That guy is a pile of shite.
I agree Mark – there are better times to organise a rally than midday on a Saturday in summer and possibly better ways to engage people who aren’t the usual suspects.
Friday evening 6-7pm in the city for instance is surely a great way to engage loads of people who hanging around after work about to meet for a drink with friends etc. And this issue is surely one issue that would resonate with people who are not traditional protesting types.
A rally in the town square with some hip band & great youtube/wiki visual screen thang happening with big black censor doom things cutting in etc… in the summer twilight – Marketing 101.
Except Jo, the new activism is all about generating vision for that day’s news. Apparently, the engagement of people in a demonstration of common concern is less important than the appearance of same.
I dunno FDB, the nightly news likes novelty and there is nothing new about 150 people in sensible hats in a square handing out pamphlets.
Small demos never make the nightly news, maybe in regional areas, but never metro/nat news – except for these conditions: a huge turnout / violence /international speaker /someone controversial who is in the news already speaking /naked girls & pensioners / insert cross bench senator stunt.
Maybe this rally is planning one of the above?
Then again, this issue has commercial stakeholders and business allies which most left causes don’t, which goes without saying, so this issue could be one that the MSM might choose to pick up on and early – for their own interests & it’s an unpopular policy and they can poke the Rudd Govt. All winners.
And finally, on your point FDB – yeah it would seem that the message of Obama hasn’t sunk in, even by people who are protesting censoring the very medium that gives them the ability to not rely on or be mediated through, the MSM.
Building a constiteuncy that then does the work for you digitally etc. Fcuk sensible hats and the 6 o’clock news!
I’m protesting crap protests.
Sink me, if the new activism doesn’t resemble the old peasants are pissed off let’s form a mob and go and yell stuff in front of a grand looking building somewhere.
“Maybe this rally is planning one of the above?”
Planning perhaps. Hoping for, likely. Likelihood of getting it, nil.
To get things straight, I wasn’t arguing (and will never) for more business as usual demos. Just theorising about the motives behind this ‘un. And I totally agree that this issue has so much traction behind it, at so many levels, that more effective means are simply lying about waiting to be picked up.
But who’s gonna do it?
First they came for the predator paedophiles…
etc etc
I’m sure the communist manifesto suggests on-line petitions. It’s near the back somewhere….
..and speaking of “first they came for the pedophiles” I was stunned to read this today. You can protect the value of your house by suggesting pedophiles would move into new developments.
Not looking into my backyard
jo: “…the message of Obama hasn’t sunk in…”
And what would that message be? Inquiring minds (including Obama’s) are eager to know.
If someone determines what the message of Obama is, kindly forward it to B.H. Obama, c/o Axelrod and Ayers Associates, Chicago Illinois — you’ll get a shout-out in the Acknowledgements section of the next best-seller, “How I Did It: A Story of Race and Gullibility”.
The above is bottom line stuff from a right site if anyone is interested in the other half.
http://www.thenextright.com/patrick-ruffini/we-should-not-minimize-obamas-fundraising-advantage
I think the number of volunteers was numbering 8 million by campaign’s end? I’ll have to look it up and get back to you This Is Not.
Yeah soree, a wee bit sloppy in my response – got there by the third comment FDB! I was cooking dinner/hanging out a load and getting tomorrow night’s concert gear ready for No.1 daughter organised in between.
Hmm, will put details of concert on Xmas party thread…
“…online fundraising empowers small donors…”
It also empowers, well, foreign (which is to say, illegal) donors, like our good buddies the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And illegal multiple above-the-ceiling donors who easily evade detection. But what do leftists care about anything? Hey — look over there! George W. Bush is torturing a bunny rabbit!
Still, let’s grant your premise: so, then, the Message of Obama is all about… campaign financing $$$?! Hope! Change! What’s the official Census stat on the birth rate of Suckers?
That was quite a lot of money to spend, just to get Rahm Emmanuel and some Clinton-era hacks.
The Message of Obarnum? I’d say, This is gonna be good, except it won’t. I just waded through eight long years of incompetent, meretricious, bottom-dealing leftist horseshit (that’s right, George Bush was more a leftist than not; he gets it on points, ask any honest Martian referee), so I’m not looking forward to another four. Although, if I didn’t have some skin in this game, I’d predict pure comedy gold.
Next Obarnum bestseller: “The Audacity of Horseshit”. Place your advance order now, to be personally delivered by unicorn, griot, or crooked Chicago machine hack. Para Espanol, marques el numero dos.
Ok, before you get even more carried away jpz, context.
We was talking about protest rallies and their current purpose(s) and organising etc. in purely technical terms – ie the value of building constituencies vs mass media exposure, 5 second stunts on the nightly news vs online petitions being handed to parliamentarians etc.
I dragged up the Obama campaign cause, just like these right wing dudes who wrote that piece are doing at nextright.com, analysing the effectiveness of digital strategies over traditional organisational methods is like so, noughties.
You’ve got an obsessive loathing for Obama which you’ve displayed here for many, many months – fair enough – but I don’t want to argue with you about US politics per se, cause I just don’t agree with your analysis of events even within your own country.
But FWIW, we’ve all got skin in the game when it comes to the U.S.A. Living inside the gates or outside. You’ll just have to cop it sweet on that one.
And on local officials – I’m from New South Wales, there ain’t nothing about corrupt machine hacks that kids from Chicago couldn’t learn in old Sydney town.
Here is a photo of one of our finest:
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/members.nsf/72d0ddea395c958cca2572ba0023fc76/6064bd28c88bb9e84a25672e0002e1ca!OpenDocument
Liam, I’m sure could you provide you with a Historical Top 100, off the top of his head, asleep.
In fact, being a Sydneysider, I don’t even mind corrupt as far as it goes within limits (not too greedy) as long as they are competent – it’s incompetent & corrupt that really sets the pulse going.
Some local history, you may not know – the NSW Police Force was listed as an organised crime association with Interpol by the 1970’s. There was one Sydney cop who was taking heroin to New York in a suitcase every couple of months using his warrant badge to clear customs apparently, the amounts of narcotics about 50 times more than the “French Connection” but it would have made a pretty boring movie.
You’re right – it’s just too gosh-darned hot to defend something we believe in. We didn’t buy all these air conditioners for naught!
I unfortunately can’t attend the rally as I will be in Sydney, but as a Brisbane-ite and someone that thinks this Clean Feed thing is dumb, I’d encourage you to drink a glass of harden-the-fuck-up and try to avoid giving people a reason not to go and defend our rights to an unfiltered Internet.
You don’t have to stand in the sun motionless without water for the entire time. You don’t have to run around like some sort of ATHLETE. You can go sit down occasionally, buy a cold drink.
Trog, I really think that means of political protest should be available to a wider range of people than macho idiots like yourself. For instance, people with kidney problems might take issue with the Clean Feed as well.
Sounds painful.
Sadly I’m realistic about NSW and Sydney’s position in the League Tables of Dodgy Politics: sure we’ve had spectacular shonks and crooks (Robin Askin’s Cabinet from the Libs, the Balmain Welding crew, Lakemba Day Branch, Rockdale Council and poor old Rex Jackson on the ALP) but mostly people don’t care. Chicago, well, is Chicago, and Chicago is different.
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Trog, in any given argument about demonstrations, ask yourself WWSAD (what would Saul Alinsky do)? Organising people to sacrifice time and energy for no particular concrete gain does not serve utility. Getting people onto the street solely for the purpose of getting people onto the street is, on the contrary, about as futile as it gets.
And for the record, the correct phrase is take-a-spoonful-of-concrete-and-harden-the-fuck-up.
hahah I can’t tell if you’re joking or not but this made me laugh right out loud
If you’re not joking though – at what point did you become “macho” for walking outside for a couple of hours in Brisbane in summer!?@#
I would argue that solely getting people onto the street is the point of this protest. Merely raising public awareness to the fact that there are people /so/ passionate about keeping the Internet free of government interference is something that I think is worth doing.
1. Demonstrated passion
2. ???
3. Change in public policy
Touche! With that in mind, I’m going back to bed
Quite serious, trog. As I intimated, walking for a few hours outside in a Brisbane summer could well be lethal for someone suffering impaired kidney function. But I see you’re been drinking too much outrageohol to think clearly about the efficacy and inclusiveness of this form of political protest.
jo — thanks for your colorful b.g. info on the world of Sydney corruption, very interesting. (btw, I’m curious about this charming word ‘Sydneysider’ — is it just a fun way to denote a person from Sydney, or is there a firmer historical basis for it? f’r instance was there once a “Sydney side” of the harbor, etc etc.)
I take your substantive point, though I note that Howard Dean in his time was thought to have ‘revolutionized’ online financing and activism too, yet it blew up in his face, yadda yadda, so it appears the terms of analysis for this phenomenon are not so simple. My guess is that the Obama phenomenon owes its legs to not just skill (though this was evident), but also to some rather peculiar conjunctions and accidents of historical timing, (not to mention a massive and wholly disgraceful MSM fix), and thus is not a great textbook ‘lesson’ from which we can profitably extrapolate. (Although there are doubtless many basic Web 2.0 lessons which laggards of any stripe must study; it’s just that I think Obama is the classic case of the rabbit hitting the tree stump, and not the new casebook on How To Catch Rabbits).
As to your sense that I have an “obsessive loathing” for Obama, let me just say you’re wrong. What I have, rather, is a great deal of healthy contempt for Obama (though not 100 per cent), and even more for his burgeoning cult of personality — which is not “loathing” and it’s certainly not “obsessive,” being quite coolly based on a citizen’s observations of his words and conduct. If I appear to be having a little too much fun with the guy, it’s only because he’s made it kind of easy. But any thinking person who heard or read (for instance) his ludicrous speech to the Germans, which made Sarah Palin sound like Marc Bloch, would have at least a dab of sympathy for my side; the fact that you leftists must always ascribe pathology to folks who simply beg to differ says something about your temperament, and I believe a look into Soviet psychiatric archives would tend to paint you in a regular Alice Neel sort of light. Nuff said.
On a different note, though, I understand what you mean about the broader context; it’s just that, given the on-going stupefying level of real-time hagiography, I must beg your forgiveness if I seem to hear loose phrases like “the message of Obama” as a sort of invitation a la Groucho’s Secret Word. Regardless of that, cheers!
Liam @47, step 2 is “Form a political party and wait decades for the rest of the nation to cotton on to the idea”.
No. Point 2 is spend most of your spare time on blogs making witty comments and providing extremely amusing you tube links that display your erudite command of whatever subject is up for discussion, while insulting those who have the temerity to disagree with you.
But Point 3 is: Rinse and repeat until boredom and ennui set in.
“boredom and ennui”
A heady mix!
You could, I suppose, contrive to get some sites that are germane to Stephen Conroy’s interests – and are otherwise completely innocuous – onto the filter lists of the service the Government plans to use. It would be embarrassing and it would hit them in their home. The ALP website itself would be a PR masterstroke.
Would I be terribly surprised if the UK’s wikipedia blockage contretemps is a similar exercise? No, not really.
I completely concur with the point Mark makes. Street marches/rallies/protests in city squares are almost passe these days.
If i was running a campaign about unnecessary gt intrusion and compulsory internet censorship, i would think it far more imaginative to gather a bunch of activists, head to some public/uni libraries and say, cling wrap up all the books that could be(absurdly) deemed inappropriate – med texts, art books, Cosmo magazine etc etc… I’d aim to generate some viral buzz online for a day or two, then repeat the exercise, only this time slap a censored sticker/postcard under the wrap, explaining why yr doing it, and include the address of a relevant website.
After the first stealth protest, you could send a teaser press release to the relevant MSM followed up by another the next day fully explaining the issue and outlining the specific point you are trying to make.
Just sayin’
If it’s worth baaaawing about then it’s worth leaving the house for and yeah, getting a little heat stroke while doing it. There’s always shade or an exit point somewhere.Yeah, I see your point about innovation and creativity, but that doesn’t exclude rallies. Rallies are a great focal point to work off. I’ve been to lots of rallies and some of them I just hated, but the Sydney No Clean Feed protest was fun, slogan-free, without any marching and extremely informative. We even got live rickrolled – twice. It pointed me towards details on this filter that are only in teh media if you look real hard.Rallies that get big numbers are the ones that make the news and get people’s attention. If you have other ways of doing this, go ahead, but people will still look for the traditional kinds of protest to see whether there is public dissent. And being out in the public eye, passerbys can see for themselves what’s going on without relying on Channel Ten News to skew it how they like. I don’t take too well to the sun, but I survived, and I had fun, and I learnt something. Try it. Leave if it gets too much (like so many moralfags on Saturday). Turn up later at the pub where everyone always meets afterwards and meet some cool people. Swap some ideas on what other creative innovative ways we can come up with to get the message out.