http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/08/eyeless-in-gaza-iv-open-democracy-edition/

Thats exactly what will happen with a Palestinian state.

Assuming the Palestinian state doesn’t go to war with Israel.

If I was an Israeli, I would be asking if I could use them for air raid shelters.

They well may need them shortly if this fiasco escalates.

Get used to the fact that the war for greater Israel is ending in defeat.

It’s no vast secret:

Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, said Israel was in an “all-out war against Hamas”, while Brigadier-General Dan Harel, the Israeli deputy chief of staff, said that his forces would erase every trace of Hamas from Gaza’s crowded cities. “After this operation there will not be a single Hamas building left standing in Gaza, and we plan to change the rules of the game,” the general said. “We are hitting not only terrorists and launchers, but also the whole Hamas Government and all its wings. We are hitting government buildings, production factories, security wings and more.”

Meanwhile:

The goal of the operation is to topple Hamas,” Haim Ramon, the deputy to Ehud Olmert, the Prime Minister, said. It was the first time since it launched its blistering offensive that Israel has openly stated that regime change is its ultimate goal. “We will stop firing immediately if someone takes the responsibility of this government, anyone but Hamas,” Mr Ramon said. “We are favourable to any other government to take the place of Hamas.”

Such a shame that the new, nicer government in Gaza no longer has any “government buildings, production factories, security wings and more”, most of which belonged to the Gazan people, and not Hamas. Simply smashing! Have fun governing, suckers, from craters!

The war for greater Israel really is lost!! Get that thought firmly in your mind. Even if it drags on for a couple of years that loss will be finalized. The Palestinian people will live in their own State that will not be dictated to anymore that Lebanon, Syria, Egypt or Jordan. There is going to be no back of the bus for Palestinians to get sent to. Two years after the Lebanon end phase and 36 years after Nixon we have seen the original movie and ought to be able to recognize a shoddy remake.

Michael; of course the aggressors do the aggressing in an aggressive war for greater Israel. DUH! But they have lost this war and it has to be brought to a close just like Nixon brought the Vietnam war to a close. They are doing this in an orgy of bloodshed, but they are doing this. The Palestinian people are struggling their way to equality in the era when ‘Countries want independence Nations want liberation and the people want revolution.’

The Zionists (Rob excepted) want monitors because they are now prepared to stop the war and thus are prepared to keep the peace.

And the analysis goes even further, looking back to 2000 to see when ‘lulls’ in the violence are broken, and who is doing the breaking. This is the conclusion,

…

this analysis shows that it is overwhelmingly Israel that kills first after a pause in the conflict: 79% of all conflict pauses were interrupted when Israel killed a Palestinian, while only 8% were interrupted by Palestinian attacks (the remaining 13% were interrupted by both sides on the same day). In addition, we found that this pattern — in which Israel is more likely than Palestine to kill first after a conflict pause — becomes more pronounced for longer conflict pauses. Indeed, of the 25 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than a week, Israel unilaterally interrupted 24, or 96%, and it unilaterally interrupted 100% of the 14 periods of nonviolence lasting longer than 9 days.

Surely there are a number of obvious reasons that immediately come to mind? Elections in February, continuing the dehumanisation of the Palestinian people, an excuse to continue the genocide, they think they can militarily destroy Hamas…

Look to the northern border of Israel, the Israeli government and altenate government want to gain what is on their northern border where no tunnels exist into Lebanon and trucks freely carry arms and supplies without any interference whatsoever. When the Israelis pull out, as they will to the south in Palestine then the same will develop and just as ships and planes carry consumables (and weapons)into Israel, so too will the Palestinian state be supplied, as there will be no sitting at the back of the bus for the Palestinian people either.

Isreal was either foolish to think it could violate a ceasefire without repercussion, or they did it on purpose to escalate into a full scale war against Gaza.

sources

Rob, I see although your analysis of the situation in Gaza and indeed the cause of the conflict is wrong, at least with your above comments, you have kept your keen sense of humour.

patrickm, excellent comments again,

“There are plenty of signs in the utter demoralization of the apologists for Zionism who often now claim to be at war for the sole purpose of bringing a peaceful Palestinian State into being.”

No where is this more visible than on the face and body language of Tzipni Livni,
she has gone from Queen Bodicea to Dorothy of the Wizard of Oz fame, in about five days.

She knows more than any one that her country has pulled a right royal boner on this latest attack on the Palestinians, and it shows, on her last interview with CNN I’m sure she hoped the ground would open up and swallow her up..

A couple of years ago there was mass destruction and death inflicted on the Lebanese. The outcome was forcing Hezbollah to join the Lebanese government and ending within a year or so with the resolution of all outstanding issues on this front including the required prisoner exchange.

Now what I think is…

What we are seeing in this butchery is the playing out of the end stages of the failed war for greater Israel. After the Israeli elections we will see the predictable moves to conclude the war for greater Israel. There are plenty of signs in the utter demoralization of the apologists for Zionism who often now claim to be at war for the sole purpose of bringing a peaceful Palestinian State into being. How about that! Forty years ago the Palestinian people didn’t even exist and US president’s and Israeli politicians etc just called them Arabs.

Virtually nobody [who thinks of themselves as progressive] now doubts that the only way forward for the Israelis is to end the occupation of the West Bank and there is no point in not doing the deal over the Golan Heights with Syria at the same time. The entire war is being brought to an end and just as Nixon brought Vietnam to an end Netanyahu or Livni or even the rank outsider Barak will do what has to be done now. The agreements are in effect already made. We are only waiting for the new Israeli government to be established and the process to start with Hamas returning to a unified Palestinian fold with full open borders and an end of the siege.

Sad to see the Zionists getting on with such butchery but there you have it. I say the war for greater Israel is ending in defeat.

Horseshit.

I guess that we’re all entitled to our little delusions. I’m rather impressed with my own contributions too!

None of what’s happened in Gaza can come as a surprise. IDF assertions of minimizing civilians casualties is so often repeated as to be little more than a platitude. This was HRWs conclusion from the last IDF foray in February,

“Human Rights Watch’s detailed field investigation of that operation found serious violations by the IDF, including the killing of a wounded man getting treatment in an ambulance, the shooting deaths of two civilians on donkey carts, and the shooting and wounding of two men in IDF custody. In two cases, tank crews opened fire on unarmed civilians. All of these incidents took place in an area that was firmly under the control of the IDF. Palestinian medics and ambulance drivers also faced restrictions on their ability to treat the wounded and dead – both civilians and combatants – and came under fire that killed one medic.”

And on Hamas,

“In February-March 2008, as on other occasions, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups placed civilians at risk by firing rockets and mortars from densely populated areas and storing weapons in civilian structures. Those acts, too, violate the laws of war.”

Oh I don’t know, I think there were also glimmers of humanity, and plenty of sensible refutation of your partisan views.

Whatever, thanks for your marathon contribution, you have earned a rest.

But anyway, how goes the war for greater Israel?

Patrickm, I don’t support a greater Israel. I’d be quite happy with an Israel behind its 1967 borders, as would you, if that were to bring peace to that part of the middle east. But it won’t. The Palestinians want all their land back, right to what existed before 1947, if they can get it, and I don’t blame them for a minute for wanting to get that.

I don’t however seek to impose my ideas about what will solve their problems on them, or pretend that what my ideas about what will solve their problems and brinhg them lasting peace are their ideas. That is for them, both sides, to work out, however long it takes them, and whatever the cost to their respective peoples.