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	<title>Comments on: White House restrained Israel from attacking Iran</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:53:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Robert Merkel</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179914</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179914</guid>
		<description>Howard C: attacking militias armed with the odd rocket and obsolete small arms right next door is a much, much easier task than attacking dispersed, buried, heavily reinforced targets 2000 kilometres away.  Iran also has an air defence system - a primitive one, mind you, but sufficient to complicate Israel&#039;s task substantially given the logistical difficulty of the mission.

The only other option available to Israel to disrupt the Iran nuclear program is one that not even Benjamin Netanyahu is mad enough to seriously contemplate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard C: attacking militias armed with the odd rocket and obsolete small arms right next door is a much, much easier task than attacking dispersed, buried, heavily reinforced targets 2000 kilometres away.  Iran also has an air defence system &#8211; a primitive one, mind you, but sufficient to complicate Israel&#8217;s task substantially given the logistical difficulty of the mission.</p>
<p>The only other option available to Israel to disrupt the Iran nuclear program is one that not even Benjamin Netanyahu is mad enough to seriously contemplate.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard C</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179913</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179913</guid>
		<description>Well, we are certainly lacking evidence currently about how Israel deals with threats, perceived and otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we are certainly lacking evidence currently about how Israel deals with threats, perceived and otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179912</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179912</guid>
		<description>Yes, Howard C., your evidence-free adamancy is beyond dispute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Howard C., your evidence-free adamancy is beyond dispute.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard C</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179911</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179911</guid>
		<description>I restate my point with some embellishment - either by hook or by crook, with carrot or stick, Iran won&#039;t get the bomb. It will not be permitted. Israel firmly believes that if that happens, they may as well quit and start looking for some other piece of land somewhere they can live, which, unfortunately, won&#039;t have been (they believe) promised them by God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I restate my point with some embellishment &#8211; either by hook or by crook, with carrot or stick, Iran won&#8217;t get the bomb. It will not be permitted. Israel firmly believes that if that happens, they may as well quit and start looking for some other piece of land somewhere they can live, which, unfortunately, won&#8217;t have been (they believe) promised them by God.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179910</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179910</guid>
		<description>I never implied that you were suggesting a full-scale invasion.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t provide evidence because I’m not in the room where those decisions are being made, and neither are you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is true. However, we are both in a position to read the words of persons who have been in that room. While these words seldom convey the whole truth and in fact they may be lies, nevertheless what has been said and reported supports my thesis and contradicts yours.

Yes, indeed, the US and perhaps even Israel can drop some bombs on some Iranian facilities. This act of war would certainly disrupt the Iranian program.

But when those facilities are replaced, they will be built deep underground, burrowed into the earth like NORAD, beyond the reach of even nuclear weapons.

Then, what &quot;other methods&quot; will be made?

Will US bombs, or worse, Israeli bombs, raining from the sky make Iranians more likely to overthrow their government and sue for peace? I think not. This military aggression is much more likely to have the opposite effect. Remember that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was elected under the shadow of US arms next door in Iraq. In a parody of democracy, Iranian voters chose the more radical of two candidates.

Will the US, already weakened and isolated by the absurd and self-destructive policies of the Bush Era, be willing to draw down further contempt upon itself by being party to a half-arsed bombing raid on Iran? If I read Obama correctly, the answer to that question is &quot;No!&quot; In her confirmation hearings as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton made it quite clear that the US was soft-pedalling military &quot;solutions&quot;.

The only military alternative is invasion and occupation of Iran. That would require an army of at least 1,000,000. And as you say, the US doesn&#039;t have &quot;the capability at the moment&quot;. The only way that &quot;moment&quot; would pass is if the US re-introduced the Draft. And that won&#039;t happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never implied that you were suggesting a full-scale invasion.</p>
<blockquote><p>I can’t provide evidence because I’m not in the room where those decisions are being made, and neither are you.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is true. However, we are both in a position to read the words of persons who have been in that room. While these words seldom convey the whole truth and in fact they may be lies, nevertheless what has been said and reported supports my thesis and contradicts yours.</p>
<p>Yes, indeed, the US and perhaps even Israel can drop some bombs on some Iranian facilities. This act of war would certainly disrupt the Iranian program.</p>
<p>But when those facilities are replaced, they will be built deep underground, burrowed into the earth like NORAD, beyond the reach of even nuclear weapons.</p>
<p>Then, what &#8220;other methods&#8221; will be made?</p>
<p>Will US bombs, or worse, Israeli bombs, raining from the sky make Iranians more likely to overthrow their government and sue for peace? I think not. This military aggression is much more likely to have the opposite effect. Remember that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was elected under the shadow of US arms next door in Iraq. In a parody of democracy, Iranian voters chose the more radical of two candidates.</p>
<p>Will the US, already weakened and isolated by the absurd and self-destructive policies of the Bush Era, be willing to draw down further contempt upon itself by being party to a half-arsed bombing raid on Iran? If I read Obama correctly, the answer to that question is &#8220;No!&#8221; In her confirmation hearings as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton made it quite clear that the US was soft-pedalling military &#8220;solutions&#8221;.</p>
<p>The only military alternative is invasion and occupation of Iran. That would require an army of at least 1,000,000. And as you say, the US doesn&#8217;t have &#8220;the capability at the moment&#8221;. The only way that &#8220;moment&#8221; would pass is if the US re-introduced the Draft. And that won&#8217;t happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard C</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179909</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179909</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t provide evidence because I&#039;m not in the room where those decisions are being made, and neither are you.

And you are also misunderstanding me yet again. I really need to take that class in being understood. I&#039;m not suggesting a full-scale invasion. I don&#039;t think the US has the capability at the moment. But the US realises that it is somewhat more palatable to the world community it they militarily work to remove the Iranian nuclear threat than if the Israelis do it. The Israelis don&#039;t really care what the world thinks, but they do care what the US thinks.

If the US can keep the Iranian capabilities are being a year or two away from being ready to produce nuclear weapons, that may be the stop-gap solution needed while other efforts are made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t provide evidence because I&#8217;m not in the room where those decisions are being made, and neither are you.</p>
<p>And you are also misunderstanding me yet again. I really need to take that class in being understood. I&#8217;m not suggesting a full-scale invasion. I don&#8217;t think the US has the capability at the moment. But the US realises that it is somewhat more palatable to the world community it they militarily work to remove the Iranian nuclear threat than if the Israelis do it. The Israelis don&#8217;t really care what the world thinks, but they do care what the US thinks.</p>
<p>If the US can keep the Iranian capabilities are being a year or two away from being ready to produce nuclear weapons, that may be the stop-gap solution needed while other efforts are made.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Merkel</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179908</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179908</guid>
		<description>Katz: you&#039;re 100% spot on that the Israelis can&#039;t pull off an extended bombing campaign.  They should be able to attack a few targets though.  Enough to disrupt the Iranian plans for a few months or even a year, but no more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz: you&#8217;re 100% spot on that the Israelis can&#8217;t pull off an extended bombing campaign.  They should be able to attack a few targets though.  Enough to disrupt the Iranian plans for a few months or even a year, but no more.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179907</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179907</guid>
		<description>And one more thing.

Bush signed the recent State of Forces Agreement with al-Maliki. One of its provisions was that the US would not use Iraq as a base from which to attack another country.

A glance at the map reveals that only Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Russia remain as places for forward bases next door to Iran. None of them are likely to allow the US to attack Iran.

Iran is now essentially invulnerable to US invasion.

In 2003, did Bush think that this would be one of the fruits of his &quot;success&quot; in Iraq?

I think not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And one more thing.</p>
<p>Bush signed the recent State of Forces Agreement with al-Maliki. One of its provisions was that the US would not use Iraq as a base from which to attack another country.</p>
<p>A glance at the map reveals that only Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Russia remain as places for forward bases next door to Iran. None of them are likely to allow the US to attack Iran.</p>
<p>Iran is now essentially invulnerable to US invasion.</p>
<p>In 2003, did Bush think that this would be one of the fruits of his &#8220;success&#8221; in Iraq?</p>
<p>I think not.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179906</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179906</guid>
		<description>But Howard C, to sustain your argument you would have to explain why you are so confident that either the US or Israel, or both, will at some time in the future behave very differently from how they have behaved up to now.

Vehemence or adamancy just doesn&#039;t cut it, I&#039;m afraid. In other words, you need to provide evidence. Tedious, I know, but there it is...

The news story upon which this thread s built is about Bush stopping the Israelis from doing something about Iran&#039;s nuclear program. As someone mentioned upthread, the Israeli Air Force simply doesn&#039;t have the technical capability to take out a dispersed and well defended program like Iran&#039;s.

And Bush has demonstrated that in weighing a desire to maintain America&#039;s imagined &quot;success&quot; in Iraq against the most fervent desires of Israel, Bush has decided on the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Howard C, to sustain your argument you would have to explain why you are so confident that either the US or Israel, or both, will at some time in the future behave very differently from how they have behaved up to now.</p>
<p>Vehemence or adamancy just doesn&#8217;t cut it, I&#8217;m afraid. In other words, you need to provide evidence. Tedious, I know, but there it is&#8230;</p>
<p>The news story upon which this thread s built is about Bush stopping the Israelis from doing something about Iran&#8217;s nuclear program. As someone mentioned upthread, the Israeli Air Force simply doesn&#8217;t have the technical capability to take out a dispersed and well defended program like Iran&#8217;s.</p>
<p>And Bush has demonstrated that in weighing a desire to maintain America&#8217;s imagined &#8220;success&#8221; in Iraq against the most fervent desires of Israel, Bush has decided on the former.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard C</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179905</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/01/12/white-house-restrained-israel-from-attacking-iran/#comment-179905</guid>
		<description>Katz

I must be difficult to understand. I apologise.

Our friend in Iran, who I&#039;m sure would have no problems convincing the Ayatollah of doing what he wanted militarily, has said that Israel should be wiped off the map, or moved to Europe, and that the Holocaust never happened.

The Israelis simply will not permit Iran to get the bomb. They will be a moment of reckoning, the Israelis will want to do something, and the USA will stop them by doing it themselves. Israel feels threatened by an Iran with nuclear capabilities more than any other threat they have ever faced. This is in part because of Ahmadinejad&#039;s rantings.

I don&#039;t have to make the argument that Iran will act differently to other nations with the bomb. Someone needs to convince Israel and the USA that Iran won&#039;t act differently if they have the bomb, and quite frankly, it ain&#039;t going to be me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz</p>
<p>I must be difficult to understand. I apologise.</p>
<p>Our friend in Iran, who I&#8217;m sure would have no problems convincing the Ayatollah of doing what he wanted militarily, has said that Israel should be wiped off the map, or moved to Europe, and that the Holocaust never happened.</p>
<p>The Israelis simply will not permit Iran to get the bomb. They will be a moment of reckoning, the Israelis will want to do something, and the USA will stop them by doing it themselves. Israel feels threatened by an Iran with nuclear capabilities more than any other threat they have ever faced. This is in part because of Ahmadinejad&#8217;s rantings.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have to make the argument that Iran will act differently to other nations with the bomb. Someone needs to convince Israel and the USA that Iran won&#8217;t act differently if they have the bomb, and quite frankly, it ain&#8217;t going to be me.</p>
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