Harry Nicolaides, the Australian expat arrested in Thailand for writing a book insulting their royal family (background in this earlier LP post), has been sentenced to the minimum three years’ jail after pleading guilty.
Paul Bullock has done some homework, including finding a PDF copy of the novel concerned, and some other examples of Nicolaides’ writing; amongst other things, the first couple of pages of Verisimilitude make abundantly clear why it was self-published. But mediocre writing is not a crime. Nor should writing about the Thai monarchy in insufficiently reverential tones. As Paul puts it:
In the end it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if he is a good writer or not, it doesn’t matter what kind of guy he is, it doesn’t even matter whether he deliberately or recklessly got himself into this mess. What matters at the moment is that a man is in prison for nothing more than exercising free speech and making a poor choice of travel destination, and at the moment he seems to be getting less help from our government than a certain group of convicted drug traffickers in Indonesia.
Leaving aside the broader goal of convincing the Thai government to abandon its lese majeste laws (Thailand has more pressing governance problems at the moment), surely the realpolitik approach to getting Nicolaides out of jail was a deal where, first, he was let out on bail. Then, a quick guilty plea should have led to an equally quick royal pardon and an even quicker deportation; the Thais keep face and Nicolaides gets to work on his writing in some other location with more hospitable laws. But that didn’t happen. And I’m still left wondering why it didn’t.
The English organization PEN has details on where to write letters to the Thai government. Personally, I suspect adverse press in Western countries may be more effective, as Thailand’s tourist industry is already under pressure due to the global economic slowdown and the political instability (which stranded hundreds of Australians). Additional bad publicity is probably the last thing they need right now.
Nicolaides worked at a Thai University, so he wasn’t just a hapless tourist. It would seem that he’s been quite the idiot with his book and lost the gamble that he would be pardoned. I agree that a jail term is harsh and unreasonable, but if it’s the law and you know it’s the law then you have to take some responsibility for your actions.
The Economist gets it about right. The law itself it wrong and needs to go.
If the king grants the pardon – which if I understand it can only be granted after conviction – it will at least be a first step.
i actually own a copy of that book. Met Harry in Thailand a few years back…
It seems like the trajectory is that the author pleads guilty, cops a few weeks of a crap goal, says he’s very sorry, then after a bit of behind the scenes diplomacy our PM says a few scripted words for the Oz market, Harry the Greek gets a pardon by the kind king – gets booted out of the country and lands back in Doncaster to pen his next badly written tale.
“….and lands back in Doncaster to pen his next badly written tale.”
Might we presume you have read the book to make that judgement FXH?
This guy sounds like a self-deluding nutter – another wannabe “journalist” trundling around south-east Asia promoting himself as an Australian version of Hunter S Thompson.
One hesitates to stand on principle for a case like this, as I suspect the resulting publicity is just what he wants. Certainly, he won’t be earning any plaudits for his adolescent-level scribbling.
If I were Rudd, I’d do a deal with the Thais and get Nicolaides released on condition he spend a year in confinement on The Age subs’ desk memorising the Fairfax style manual.
Actually, don’t tell (Fairfax CEO) Brian McArthy this. It is suspiciously like the sort of cost-cutting exercise he would employ. (Sack all the subs and replace them with self-proclaimed Aussie gonzo journalists currently clogging the jails of the developing world).
Heaven forbid, Mr Denmore – we might end up with another Gerard Henderson.
And as joe2 observed – I suppose that those making judgements of Mr Nicolaides’ worth as an author, as though it is in any way relevant, have read the book that they are judging so harshly.
Guys, you can download the novel and have a look for yourself. Maybe some of our more literary LP readers will offer their stylistic judgements.
As I said in the original post, the quality of the writing concerned has nothing to do with whether the author should be thrown in gaol for it. The Satanic Verses divided critical opinion on its literary worth, if I recall.
I put Nicolaidis in the same ‘plain unlucky’ bag as the hapless Australian tourism entrepreneurs who flew, sans visa, into Merauki on the coast of Indonesian New Guinea. The pilot got the same three year stretch but without a king’s pardon possibly in the pipeline.
Apart from the stupidity of the crime, the equal sentence and Australians as victims, it is interesting to look at both historically. In another age Nicolaidis would have lost his head and the hapless pilot would have been feted and returned home a celebrity. Maybe Nicolaidis has something in mind for a sequel.
“Guys, you can download the novel and have a look for yourself. Maybe some of our more literary LP readers will offer their stylistic judgements.”
Wouldn’t you need to get permission from King Bumibol to read that?
Oh hell make that “bhumibol”.
“Dorothy followed a yellow-brick road to the land of Oz. Alice fell down a hole and emerged in wonderland. James Hilton wrote his way into Shangri La in Lost Horizon. Homer sung of Elysian fields. Peter Pan flew to Never Never land. The mythical town of Brigadoon with all its charming inhabitants and fairytale cottages emerges, according to Irish folklore, once every one thousand years only to vanish again by sunset. Blessed are the few who fall through the cracks of the visceral world as we know it into the enchanted, fairytale landscape of their dreams. I found such a mysterious opening somewhere north of the past and south of the future. It is not on any known map. Yet it exists. Some say, if you look closely enough, it can be seen in the latitude and longitude lines on the palm of your hand.”
Erstwhile defenders of Mr. Nicolaides’ potential as a writer need concern themselves no longer.
[I have chosen one of his less disgusting excerpts in my other capacity as Your Friendly Neighbourhood Arbiter Of Good Taste]
“Bumibol”
Watchit joe2 – perilously close to joining Harry in a cell there methinks.
a man is in prison for nothing more than exercising free speech
Technically a man is actually in prison for exercising free speech in a country whose laws don’t seem to permit free speech in the particular area he chose to write about. As for the Thais saving face through a royal pardon, I can’t help but feel that if a country insists on keeping a statute like that in your law books, then it doesn’t really care too much about its image internationally in the first place.
Personally I think there’s something strange about the whole business, and I must say I’m sympathetic towards Paul Bullock’s suggestion that it may have been a publicity stunt gone wrong. Mind you, I tend to think in suspicious terms anyway, so I probably would be sympathetic to that idea…
ome say, if you look closely enough, it can be seen in the latitude and longitude lines on the palm of your hand.
Is he saying what I think he’s saying? Oh well, he can still “go there” and in a prison cell he won’t have much else to do… but ewwwwww…
Seriously Helen, and in the immortal words of Bachman Turner Overdrive, you ain’t seen n-n-n-n-nothin’ yet.
Not sure where Harry was going with the palm of his hands but he does need to do a bit more research. Brigadoon was Scottish folklore not Irish.
Having said all that, I’m glad the case is focussing attention on the chilling effect the lese-majeste laws are having on public discourse within Thailand. The laws are being increasingly used to justify arrests of anti-Government supporters if their actions and words can be shown to be even vaguely critical of the royals.
Do Broadway musicals count as folklore these days?
joe2@5 – yes I’ve read the book – can’t vouch for every word and I skimmed a lot.
Looks to me like a thinly disguised tale of a Oz/Greek guy’s travels through Thailand – not much of a travelogue or of a novel.
I don’t believe however that self publishing a mediocre bit of writing is deserving of a prison sentence in Thailand.
And its a good job that bad writing doesn’t get a prison sentence here otherwise I could end up with a few other bloggers rubbing shoulders with Fat Tony and Babyface Carl Williams down at Lara.
Strangely I’d picked up on Harry before – I think after some publicity about his concierge book – also self published I think. Or maybe I’d read his bit in the Graudian about teaching English in Saudia Arabia. Anyway over time I read a few of his things, blog and forum and Thai bits of writing. To be honest I couldn’t tell if it was fiction or travelogue – but his tales of sex with bar girls left me unimpressed.
The quality of his writing can be judged by others. I think the guy is a self deluding nong for self publishing in Thailand and then self promoting a book he opening says in his self reviews is critical of the King.
Again none of this is to say that he should be left to rot in a Thai, or any, prison. We should do what we can to get him out – even if he says he will keep writing.
My first post was just saying that I suspect the wheels have been long turning to get him out in the logical steps I outlined and that grandstanding on an international stage won’t (luckily for Harry) make any difference either way.
I think the guy is a self deluding nong for self publishing in Thailand and then self promoting a book he openly says in his self reviews is critical of the King.
“We should do what we can to get him out – even if he says he will keep writing.”
I was going to say that if he promises to stop, even this jaded old buffoon might dust off his set of Franklin Mint Vigil-Candles.
While it goes without saying that I hope things turn out alright for Mr Nicolaides, I couldn’t resist having a peek at his novel. After reading a few pages of his novel, the first thing that came to mind was Adrian Mole. Fans of the Mole books would recall Adrian’s novel Lo! The flat hills of my homeland!. Harry’s style is eerily similar to Mole’s: tortured faux-poetic descriptions like:
(If it goes up and down hills, it’s not really ‘like a river’ is it, Harry? And that’s on page 1, where you would think he was paying atention.)
The first paragraph of chapter 2:
Okay, we get the point. One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish…
Have a look for yourself, it’s kind of funny. Like watching somebody walk into a lamp post while they’re talking on their mobile phone.
“Watchit joe2 – perilously close to joining Harry in a cell there methinks.”
I’m just thanking my lucky stars that I didn’t write “bumhole”.
This whole thing has Monty Python or goons written all over it, methinks.
Too bad about old horny Harry but.
“Again none of this is to say that he should be left to rot in a Thai, or any, prison. We should do what we can to get him out – even if he says he will keep writing.”
I’d draw the line there. If he’s going to keep writing I’d recommend doubling the sentence.
What I want to know is, how on earth were the Thai authorities able to stand reading far enough into this opus even to substantiate the charge? The court records, when the evidence was read, must have had a lot of stuff in the transcript like (SEVERAL MINUTES OF UNCONTROLLED GIGGLING). That bit about the fish reminds me of the Monty Python routine “A Minute Passed.”
That said, I hate to see the guy jailed over this, and I certainly hope he is freed promptly.
And now for the backhand — you’re all gonna say you saw this coming, but you deserve it all the same. Ready? And, a 1-2-3-4…
You multiculturalists have got some cheek weeping and moaning about free speech now– where’s all your cultural sensitivity and understanding, your grief about the imperialism of imposing western values, your love of speech codes (so long as *you* get to write ‘em), your autopilot sympathy for the dignity of anything so long as it’s non-western? Something happens in a way you don’t particularly like, and all that hooey gets a pause because this case simply doesn’t suit you. Some principles. You can sit in the corner and think of mean names to call yourselves, I can’t be bothered. Harumph. Double harumph.
Meantime though, free Harry!
– j_p_z, on your side with this one in spite of himself.
Um, unless I have missed it somewhere in the links, I don’t think I have seen anyone specifically explain the insult in the novel. All I have heard in the MSM is that it is stated by a fictional narrator as rumour he/she has heard about the royal family. But why the reticence about repeating the specific rumour in Australian blogs? Are people worried about being arrested on arrival for a Phuket holiday?
I don;t wanna seem callous but is this a PR stunt?
Hope he is given a royal Pardon when all said and good it will look good for the Royal Family if he does. Pays to be careful with foreign affairs!
Barry @ 3, thanks for owning up. Any idea who bought the other nine copies?
I am assuming that this passage on page 115 got him into strife:
“From King Rama to the Crown Prince, the nobility was renowned for their romantic entanglements and intruiges. The Crown Prince had many wives – major and minor – with a coterie of concubines for entertainment. One of his recent wives was exiled with her entire family, including a son they conceived together, for an undisclosed indiscretion. He subsequently remarried with another woman and fathered another child. It was rumour that if the prince fell in love with one of his minor wives and she betrayed him, she and her family would disappear with their name, familial lineage and all vestiges of their existence forever.”
Can I just say he was bloody stupid for publishing this in Thailand. If he said the same thing about a leader in Australia he would not be going to jail but he would be on the wrong end of a defamation action.
Yep. That was the passage cited.
In fairness to the Thai royal family, King Bhumibol devoted a far part of his 2005 Birthday Speech calling for the repeal of the lese majeste laws, saying that they were an impediment to freedom of speech and that the King should not be above criticism because he made mistakes like anyone else.
He said that when people are convicted under them he would pardon them.
The lese majeste laws are used by politicians to score points against each other. It looks like killing the chicken to frighten the monkeys. Though in this case it looks like an extraordinarily stupid chicken. The Thais have a long history to remember of Westerners acting in a grossly and gratuitously offensively way towards them then claiming freedom of speech or freedom of expression.
Harry won’t be getting any sympathy from the Thais, whatever their feelings about the Crown Prince.
If it’s a PR stunt it went badly wrong.
I know it’s satisfying to slag off bad writing and Nicolaides may well be a metaphorically and literally a complete wanker. But after you’ve had your joke, the fact is the guy’s in gaol for just about nothing. It may be fun to have a laugh about it, but I bet his family doesn’t share in the jocularity. If the King is against the lese majesty laws, then give him a pardon.
Mate, just because people here are mocking this guy’s style doesn’t mean it’s an open mike bad writing competition.
I agree to a point, Fine @ 32, but if he published in Thailand and was aware of the law, no matter how unjust it might be, he must shoulder some responsibility. He did not have to publish. It would be tragic for my family if I was imprisoned after blowing .35 in the bag, but I would shoulder the same responsibility if I chose to drink-drive.
Would someone kindly instruct ABC newsreaders and reporters (TV and radio) how to pronounce ‘lese majeste’?
I hope his Mum hasn’t read that engorged column about June the Patong bargirl.
The difference being, if you actually blew .35 you’d be a danger to yourself and anyone else on the road. As the original post commented, lese majesty is a law meant to silence dissent. No-one’s going to die from the publishing of a bad novel. The two things aren’t analogous.
The news story I heard on the ABC was that he did submit the novel to the powers that be and then published when he heard nothing back. So, who knows where the truth lies?
The analogy, which is correct, revolves around free will.
He was aware that his actions had a consequence. He mightn’t like the reasons for the consequence (as you, and I for that matter, don’t) but that doesn’t change the fact that he freely chose an action that led to that consequence.
It might be a crappy law, but if you travel, or live abroad, you have to put up with crappy laws. Even the little pamphlet that comes with your passport says so.
“It might be a crappy law, but if you travel, or live abroad, you have to put up with crappy laws. Even the little pamphlet that comes with your passport says so.”
yep. I doubt my partner would have put up with the turkish groping and catcalling if it happened at the Eumundi markets.
It’s wrong, sure, but if you wanted things to be the same you wouldn’t bother travelling.
Japerz, people who complain about “the left”’s or “multicultural” attitude to “free speech” usually come out with examples where no-one has been threatened with jail at all; viz, the adolescents who came up with the Jyllands Posten cartoons, or the football clubbers of Toowoomba who just can’t let go of the N-word in their signage. What you need to understand is the difference between jailing someone for publishing something, and criticising, mocking or condemning something which is nevertheless allowed to be published or displayed without harsh consequences for the authors. Except for the fact that we may criticise, mock or call them out for their racism, sexism and whatever else we find wrong with it, which is, after all, our freedom of speech – cuts both ways – I keep saying that, don’t I? Cracked record.
Jailing someone for publishing some very mild mockery of a privileged group = not acceptable; That doesn’t mean we have made some kind of exception for him from our stern manual of multiulturalism.
Am I the only one who feels like adopting the slogan (a la “We are all German Jews!” famously referring to Danny Cohn Bendit in Paris 1968) “We are all bad writers!”
Might catch on, depending on humility levels among the blogotariat!
I suppose if one were to bash “the left” for not supporting free speech, you might point to things like the racial and religious vilification laws in several Australian states.
The problem in that argument is the assumption that “the left” is united in support of them. From what I recall, the LP authors who expressed an opinion on them were opposed.
Robert B
First they came for the bad writers, but I waz not a bad riter, so I said nothing…
My 2 bobs worth.
Hes probably a dick (based on those lovely sex trad book excerpts), and may even be a “bad” person.
But his being locked up is an injustice and I hope the government is working away quietly to get him out as quickly as possibe.
What about the woman in Kuwait who allegedly insulted the Emir and who the government has already said they can’t help. Why is Nicolaides any different? He is at least guilty of breaking the law.
Helen wrote: “Jailing someone for publishing some very mild mockery of a privileged group = not acceptable”
My view of free speech is that is has to be universal. I hope you’re not restricting your support of free speech, Helen, to those who criticise or mock only the privileged.
GregM @ 31: thanks for pointing out that the King himself is uncomfortable with these laws. Fancy that: a monarch wanting to eschew an outdated aspect of his privileges. Fancy that.
I was referring to a more universal concept, not a specific right under a particular country’s laws. I know that every country has some limitation on “free” speech, usually in the form of defamation and hate-speech laws. But I think we have hopefully advanced to a point where it is implicit that all humans should have the right to express themselves freely without criminal (as opposed to civil) consequences.
This is actually what is so problematic about hate speech laws in my view, too.
I also think a valid line can be drawn between speech which is ‘offensive’ but which has no real world consequences, and speech which has real world consequences. Perhaps an ideal system is one which which you have absolute freedom to express yourself per se, but you must also bear responsibility for the consequences of exercising that freedom.
In any event, anyone in the political world, which the Thai royals certainly are, should be fair game for basically any comment whatsoever.
Why can’t we simply be consistent in strongly opposing any of these types of charges?
It really pissed me off to see Smith on TV last night – instead of saying, “we are doing what we can to help and we don’t agree with this type of law” he wheeled out the tired old “respect the local laws and customs” line.
We spent some time in Thailand recently, and were entertained by some nice, middle-class, educated Thai people (one has an Aus PhD). We found their attitude toward the royal family hard to get our heads around. No discussion is possible – the King is wonderful, and kind, and the perfect father to his people. When I asked how the Crown Prince is viewed they were very quiet. He is not like his father, seemed to be the consensus. Questions about what will happen after the King’s death were not taken well. I suspect there is a lot of uncertainty over this, which might explain what seems to us an over-reaction to the rather silly book (and yes, I have skim read it – thanks for the link).
Paul, it maybe that the government is making the judgement that it’s better to be super respectful in public, whilst working on the issue in the backrooms.
I never quite understand the idea of people having to ‘take some resonsibility, even though the law is wrong’. What does that mean in practical terms? Nicolaides plead guilty, so I guess that might be taking ’some responsibility’. But the whole thing sounds like a beleagured government playing to a local audience. The Thai judicial system is also notorioulsy corrupt, so I find it difficult to have respect for it.
Mindy, I haven’t heard about this case. Could yo upost a link, please?
Woman jailed in Kuwait. (from SMH)
a friend of mine sent me the following email:
You may have seen the story in the news headlines about Australian writer Harry Nicolaides who has been jailed in Thailand for apparently offending the Thai Royal Family in one of his books.
Yesterday he was given a jail sentence of 3 years. His only hope now is for a Royal Pardon, which his lawyer is currently preparing the paperwork for.
I actually know Harry and he really doesn’t deserve to be in this predicament. He is a placid and conservative kind of guy who wouldn’t hurt a fly. The conditions in the Thai prison are absolutely appalling and his health is deteriorating rapidly. His family are devastated and his elderly parents are worried they will never see their son again.
Please help Harry and his family by clicking on the link below and signing the petition.
Many thanks,
Aliki x
http://www.harrynicolaides.com/
Thanks Mindy. These people are in really desperate straits as well.
49 M-H Jan 21st, 2009 at 9:37 am
My experience as well. While the Crown Prince is something of a ‘black sheep’ his sister fits the royal tradition perfectly.
And yes, it is very difficult for outsiders to understand the privileges and status Royalty and those related are granted. Our guide, for example, was only very distantly related (about a 13th cousin she said) but her name was recognised by the traffic police who refused to book her for speeding breeches.
Not above the law, but the law itself.
After a cursory look around about this fellow he is a WANKER! Yes he’s self-promoting a crap bit of pretention. Fuck him! He deserves three years just for being a collossal twerp.
Apparently no one insults or says anything about the king or the royal family in Thailand. A golden rule, so this poor chap has done the opposite in actually mentioning “something” and is paying for it. A good lesson to be learnt from all this – the Australian Government should be intervening in this matter.
Well yes, Camille. What other than exactly what they are doing, seeking a pardon for the
poor chap/idiot, should they be doing?“…the traffic police who refused to book her for speeding breeches.”
Is there no end to the quaintness of their legal system? A law concerned with speeding breeches? What of accelerating ladies garters, or slowish neck-to-knee bathing costumes, forsooth? Are they too under the attention of ever vigilant policepersons?
Ambigulous
Helen wrote: “Jailing someone for publishing some very mild mockery of a privileged group = not acceptable”
My view of free speech is that is has to be universal. I hope you’re not restricting your support of free speech, Helen, to those who criticise or mock only the privileged.
Yes, you are right Ambigulous, I was trying to make the point that hate speech likely to lead to bodily harm, violence or whatever, wasn’t an issue here- which would be punishable by something in some countries/jurisdictions, although probably not jail. I suppose a hate speech charge could legitimately be brought against someone writing about a monarch, but it’s not high on the list of likely things to happen (unless it was a beatup, like the current example, I mean.)
I’ve signed the petition. If there’s another one kicking around to remove Harry’s right to self-publish, I’ll sign that too.
And let’s not forget racy knickers.
Emma
Helen, no wuzz.
I’ve signed the petition. If there’s another one kicking around to remove Harry’s right to self-publish, I’ll sign that too.
.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
When I asked how the Crown Prince is viewed they were very quiet. He is not like his father, seemed to be the consensus. Questions about what will happen after the King’s death were not taken well.
Probably pushed a bit too far already. Luckily your Thai friends understood that you are an ignorant foreigner and didn’t hold it against you.
Thais love their king. You *do not* say anything bad about the King or his family, ever. To be safe it’s best not to discuss the king at all.
When you go to a movie in Thailand, everyone in the cinema has to stand while they play a video and sing a song about the king.
If you drop a coin while fumbling through your change, you get kicked out of the shop because you let the king’s face (on the coin) touch the ground.
He is worshipped as a near-divine, perfect being.
Writing a book slagging his family off is the height of stupidity.
“Writing a book slagging his family off is the height of stupidity.”
That’s all very well, but doesn’t mean he belongs in jail. I’ve spent much of my life scaling the heights of stupidity, and I’m pretty sure I’ve spotted you across a ravine more than once.
I see this as one of those rare and joyous occasion when all players in the drama can be roundly condemned. Truly it makes my black heart swell with… something, I dunno. Amused detachment?
“When you go to a movie in Thailand, everyone in the cinema has to stand while they play a video and sing a song about the king.”
How unusual. Reminds me of the dirty looks you often get at Ausralian public events when you choose to sit when the queen worship anthem happens. There is every good reason to challenge the nonsense of monarchy adoration, wherever you find it. As long as you can keep your head.
Mmm, I can think of lots events here where you’d probably get your head knocked off if you didn’t stand for the National Anthem. It wasn’t that many decades ago that ‘God Save the Queen’ was alwys played at the pictures, accompanied by a faded, scratched little film of our gracious maonarch.
Stupidity is so easy to condemn. But, we’re all guilty of it. Sometimes on a daily basis.
“When you go to a movie in Thailand, everyone in the cinema has to stand while they play a video and sing a song about the king.”
Yea I know all about it, when I was a kid we did the same thing in the movies in Adelaide only then it was a Queen.
Yobbo from your comments can I assume the King of Thailand is a conservative?Because if he was a socialist King (if there is such a thing) you would probably want to give Nicolaides the Nobel peace prize.
The King of Thailand doesn’t involve himself in politics very much. I believe he came out during the Thaksin saga to ask everyone to generally “Be Excellent To Each Other” but that’s about it.
That’s all very well, but doesn’t mean he belongs in jail.
Neither do lots of people. Everyone in the entire world imprisoned because of the War On Drugs, for example. Those laws are just as unjust.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t some contributory idiocy involved when you turn up at an airport with 10 bags of cocaine stuffed up your arse.
As I wrote on Harry Clarke’s site, this guy was basically trying to bignote himself amongst the expat community by writing yet another book about Whores, while putting in some “biting social commentary” so people wouldn’t think he was just another sex tourist.
Epic Fail.
Thanks Andrew Reynolds @ 2 for the economist piece, v. good backgrounder.
So, sort of like going to Sicily and slagging the Capo di tutti i capi. There are some similarities between the King and his on-going dodgy reign bleh, but more so, the idiocy of publishing in Thailand within arms length of Thai officialdom…but via a self-published novel! Right on pro-democracy crusader, not.
3 years for idiocy is a bit steep, but it’s world class idiocy.
Particularly like the bit in the economist about the Americans paying to put a portrait in every Thai home during the Vietnam war..calling Katz/GregM.
In respect of the points made about our Government’s response re: Fine @ 50 & Paul @ 48, surely there is way of saying both?
Admittedly, a very tricky line to walk but there are domestic audiences here and in Thailand that need to know that at least one Govt doesn’t believe these laws are just or appropriate….all the while “they are doing everything possible and expecting Austalians to respect the laws and customs of other countries”.
So much for robust dialogue between friendly neighbours.
It’s a tricky line Jo and I’m not sure how it can be walked. For instance, I know in the Van Nguyen case (he was executed in Singapore for drug trafficking), his lawyers were at pains not to offend the Singaporean govt. Of course, you can argue that it didn’t do him any good, but they were convinced that was the way to go and any overt criticism was just empty grandstanding.
Musta been more affected by the inauguration speech than I’d thought Fine!
It would be useful and v. interesting to know what behind-the-scenes DFAT interventions have borne fruit/lesser sentences/pardons/prison-at-home-swaps etc over the years, to make any proper judgement on these types of issues.
Hawkie’s “barbaric” comment on the Barlow/Chambers executions did stir up courtesy of Mahathir – lots of anti-Australian feelings, but with global/internet generation(s), maybe this type of domestic posturing isn’t going to fly as high as it once did? Although I doubt Smith or Rudd would ever leave the middle of the diplomatic road, even if they were being critical.
It would also be interesting to know how other developed Western countries routinely act when one of their nationals finds themselves in the same possie?
And lastly, I was a bit harsh & quick to judge Harry, maybe his novel with all this unintended extra publicity, will have the impact he’d obviously hoped for, albeit it being apparently almost unreadable……via Paul’s http://www.intelligentdesign.com.au/blog/2009/01/20/free-harry/:
and poo, now I’m going to have to go and read at least some of it meself.
jo – you do realise Harry N wrote the book himself, edited it himself, publishe dit himself, sold it himself, possibly bought several copies himself, wrote the blurbs and review and etc himself.
It’s about as trenchant and as uncompromising as a Bangkok bar girl with a Greek/Australian sex tourist on a lean night.
Walt Whitman also did all of those things with Leaves of Grass. Banging on about the self-published format of the book is not very helpful, IMHO – just because it was self-published, doesn’t mean it is crap by default.
And no, I haven’t read it. I couldn’t get through Leaves of Grass either, particularly the later editions
I hope that Sam the Dog in comment 30 realizes that he has just committed lese-majeste under article 113 and he had better not plan an extended holiday to Thailand. Doesn’t matter where in the world you write it or even just repeat the banned words, if you come to Thailand and they figure out you posted that, you will be arrested and held without bail just like Harry was.
“Leaving aside the broader goal of convincing the Thai government to abandon its lese majeste laws (Thailand has more pressing governance problems at the moment), surely the realpolitik approach to getting Nicolaides out of jail was a deal where, first, he was let out on bail. Then, a quick guilty plea should have led to an equally quick royal pardon and an even quicker deportation; the Thais keep face and Nicolaides gets to work on his writing in some other location with more hospitable laws. But that didn’t happen. And I’m still left wondering why it didn’t.” –Robert Merkel
As to the point of why Harry Nicolaides wasn’t granted bail and still hasn’t been granted a royal pardon, there are at least two reasons that I can think of. Firstly, he really offended someone important in Thailand and that person or group of people really want him to suffer. They want him to suffer considerably more than the Austrian drunkard who got mad that he couldn’t buy beer on the King’s birthday and defaced a life-sized billboard of the King’s portrait. He DID get pardoned three weeks after his lese-majeste conviction, but the facts are different here. The desire to inflict pain may be because the offense was committed against the heir apparent, who may not be as forgiving as the King himself. Secondly, Thailand has a minority government cobbled together by a coalition of, well, a majority of scoundrels, and a PM who although he looks like Mr. Clean is not the first choice of a majority of the electorate. There is a great deal of political dissent going on upcountry right now, and a lot of strings are being pulled behind the scenes. Nicolaides isn’t a major concern to anyone who is Thai except perhaps to a small handful of human rights activists. Thais do care about their image abroad but there are limits, and given the carefully orchestrated Divine status of the Chakri dynasty most would say that he got what he deserved. In prison I suspect that a number of his tattooed cell mates won’t be very forgiving and may make his life quite difficult for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t already received at least a few death threats.
So it is up to the Australian government to do more to secure his release. If he doesn’t get that royal pardon within a month then he probably isn’t going to be released, and quietly waiting for the Thais to come to their senses isn’t the best strategy. At that point, if you really care about your free speech principles, then more forceful confrontation may be necessary, such as has been engaged in with the Japanese over whaling. Otherwise, well… no predictions at this point, but it’s no joking matter.
clint – the fact that he published it hiself doesn’t mean it’s crap at all – although having read it I can say it is crap – I’ve read great self published stuff and crap from large publishers – and then there’s Ayn Rand. But publishing it himself means that he didn’t have the legal girls give it the once over for Thailand and assorted corporate thingos that publishers do.
Saying he published it means he had copies printed. He also rubbed the Thai authorities noses in it by sending it to them AND then writing a blurb that suggests it slams their King.
He’s been in Thailand on and off for at least 6 years. For an “insiders” revelations not knowing how Thais view their King – it’s a bit pathetic. Hell – it’s close to the way we worship JWH in Oz. From what I understand he returned to Thailand after he was slated to be arrested – but I might be wrong.
As I said at the start of this thread my bet is that he’s back home in Doncaster before the summer is over here. I hope so.
FHX @ 73 – yeah…the ‘review’ quote was supposed to be the give away, supposed to be.
FXH,
Thanks, I didn’t know that about the blurb, and you make a fair point about the legal issues. I understood though (from an article a few months back) that he had first sent the book to the Thai authorities for ‘approval’ and had either received no response or a positive one. And that he then printed what – fifty copies?
Anyway, I think your earlier point still stands:
heh heh.
Hmm, I see that over in the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, a member of the Dutch government, is now being prosecuted *by the State* for the heinous crimes of …making a film and expressing his opinions.
To your battle-stations, freedom-loving lefties! Defend the right of Geert Wilders to speak freely!
(crickets)
Yeah, that’s about what I figured. Looking directly at you, Helen. Are you busy re-defining what is “unacceptable”? Put up or shut up; now is pretty much the time.
How about the rest of you? Where do you stand on this vital point? Eh?
…’scuse my strong language, but this fish is a biggun.
So.
Since this thread is ostensibly about freedom of speech, may I explicitly ask: Where do you good people stand on the right (or lack thereof) of Geert Wilders to speak his mind without fear of government reprisal?
Test cases don’t come any cleaner than this. It’s been about 48 hours. I deliberately waited for the news cycle to be up and running. So far the LP silence has been notable.
So?
We’re not all of one mind, j_p_z. I believe the right of free speech has to be universal; otherwise it’s largely meaningless. ‘Cos you get some committee or King or PM or lawyer deciding which bits are OK and which bits must be prosecuted.
See 46 above and Helen’s comment at 59.
j_p_z: We can’t report everything.
But – as I’ve made clear on numerous occasions – I don’t support racial vilification laws, and on first glance the prosecution of Geert Wilders appears to be wrong.
I applaud the Economist for discovering an example of successful American diplomacy.
Has the journalist been nominated for the Pulitzer Prize?
For a start, I know nothing about Geert Wilders. So, jpz, you may wish to educate us by posting a link, instead of just slagging off.
FXH, I hope you’re right and he’s pardoned son, but I doubt it actually.
So the publicity tour wasn’t a complete failure?
A long time ago I became very upset that a Ms Corby was facing a potential death sentence or bloody long jail sentence in Bali over what I would have classified as a misdemeanour. An initial outpouring of sympathy from the Australian media and public fairly quickly turned into an unending stream of fury and vitriol after the media concluded she was probably guilty.
My view was that innocent or guilty her sentence was about 20 years too long. However, accepted wisdom now seems to be that we must respect the sovereign rights of other countries. I had thought that there ought to be limits to the sovereignty doctrine. That if we accept 20 years (or death) for smuggling pot then we’re not far from accepting stoning for adultery or the guillotine for jaywalking. But it seems I was wrong, since I cannot detect even the slightest whiff of sympathy for the unfortunate young lady in Bali.
So be it. I will bow to the views of the masses and withhold sympathy or actions in support of Mr Nicolaides.
The AGE today suggests he has re-entered (and exited obviously) Thailand “many” times since his arrest warrant was issued.
[NB: this is paid journo fact checking NOT unpaid blogger speculation]
Harry N is obviously an indulgent naif: Reminds me of a relative whose son had a brush with police – relative said “It’s nothing to worry about” After I pushed a bit – car siezed, licence lost, 5 hour interview with police after avoiding them for 2 months – but nothing serious!!!!
jenny – I think Corby was an idiot but the sentence innapropriate.
Corby like Harry N should have known more than the average punter about Bali (indonesian). I’ve supported getting Corby back to Oz as I have getty Harry The Novelist back by contacting my local member and etc. I was disgusted that that poor bastard from Drink or Die was extradited to USA for a prison stint for cracking a few software programs.
My experience is that getting hysterical in Oz about something has not resulted in a change in laws in other countries. I’d be happy to see evidence proving me wrong.
Anyway I’m off to Chinese New Year in Box Hill
Corby v Nicolaides is a pretty decent comparison, as they both did something that would be illegal here too, just not sentenced as harshly. On that score, Harry has actually gotten off pretty lightly, even if no pardon is forthcoming. Accuse someone of (more or less) murdering entire families here, and you can expect a pretty unfavourable civil case.
The issue really is that despite the fact that we know such sentences are ridiculous – what can Australia really do about it short of going to war?
No nation is going to back down and say to Australia “You’re right, we are barbarians, what were we thinking?”
Thais especially hate it when foreigners intervene in their affairs, they are quite capable of cutting off their own nose to spite their face and if Australia tried to apply any kind of diplomatic pressure they would tell us to piss off, and probably put up trade sanctions while they were at it.
Doing so would hurt them a lot more than it would hurt us, but that has never worried the Thais before.
“- what can Australia really do about it short of going to war?”
No doubt the government is doing everything they can to suck up to the King of Thailand. There is obviously no other option in the face of this crappy law that you rightly suggest is not going to change because we wish it.
“Corby v Nicolaides is a pretty decent comparison, as they both did something that would be illegal here too, just not sentenced as harshly.”
FDB @89 the point surely is, that Harry was found guilty of a crime under Thailands ‘lese majeste’ law. He is no way guilty of anything that is found here unless you are confusing matters with our local defamation law. Corby on the other hand may well have been found guilty of a drug trafficking here, obviously with less cruel a punishment, in the relentless and stupid similar war on drugs.
Could someone please give me a link to Harry’s book because I can’t seem to access any other of the links. Also, does anyone happen to have Harry’s current email address. I would like to drop him a “welcome home” note.