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	<title>Comments on: Stimulated</title>
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	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172742</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 12:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172742</guid>
		<description>I read somewhere the other day &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/author.asp?id=2064&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Brian Caldwell&lt;/a&gt; saying that in addition to the Rudd money schools need a further $25 billion over 10 years to give us a truly modern system.

Given that they don&#039;t want to spend any money on recurrent expenditure it&#039;s clear that the Govt want to do something about their cherished &#039;education revolution&#039; which the straightened fiscal situation would normally preclude.

I think Turnbull&#039;s harping about tax cuts is partly because he knows that Rudd would never agree to them under in the current exercise. Indeed it makes more sense for the Govt to wait for the tax review rather than pre-empt it in a piece-meal way.

A multi-purpose hall might seem a pointless luxury to some, but our son&#039;s secondary school had one and it&#039;s hard to see how the school could have built such an admirable sense of community without it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read somewhere the other day <a href="http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/author.asp?id=2064" rel="nofollow">Brian Caldwell</a> saying that in addition to the Rudd money schools need a further $25 billion over 10 years to give us a truly modern system.</p>
<p>Given that they don&#8217;t want to spend any money on recurrent expenditure it&#8217;s clear that the Govt want to do something about their cherished &#8216;education revolution&#8217; which the straightened fiscal situation would normally preclude.</p>
<p>I think Turnbull&#8217;s harping about tax cuts is partly because he knows that Rudd would never agree to them under in the current exercise. Indeed it makes more sense for the Govt to wait for the tax review rather than pre-empt it in a piece-meal way.</p>
<p>A multi-purpose hall might seem a pointless luxury to some, but our son&#8217;s secondary school had one and it&#8217;s hard to see how the school could have built such an admirable sense of community without it.</p>
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		<title>By: kingsley</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172741</link>
		<dc:creator>kingsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 06:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172741</guid>
		<description>I would also suspect you could donate even $50K to each and every Parents and Friends/Citizens organisation in the country and be sure it would be spent very quickly and in the vast majority of cases on something critically required by the school. Even conservatives like me would support that. At the state primary school my children recently left they didn&#039;t even have the budgetary capacity to replace the flyscreens nor maintain bars of soap in the toilets. That&#039;s not the responsiblity of the P&amp;F/C but demonstrates how cash strapped some schools are and therefore guarantees any injection of cash has a very high chance of being spent on something sensible although these two examples argue for a permanent increase in budgets not one-offs.

Mark thanks for links about the pre Xmas stimulus package and how it compared to Treasury estimates. The jury is still out in my mind on the package but I would not have seen those results if I hadn&#039;t visited this site which I guess goes to show it is important for all of us to visit the other sides sites frequently.
I understand Rudd&#039;s logic with wanting to hold up retail sales the trouble he hits now is the positive boost to the national pysche rightly or wrongly has been competed out by the &quot;it was a waste&quot; commentary. I think Rudd needs to explain it better in terms of its all about getting through 2009 in reasonable shape. The bottom can&#039;t be much more than 6 months away so if we can weather the storm the damage shouldn&#039;t be too ugly.

Ultimately I think this issue comes down to whether you believe in the simple merits of maintaining aggregate demand through the &quot;storm&quot; by any means necessary versus a natural aversion to &quot;wasteful&quot; non-lasting expenditure. I can see both sides of the argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also suspect you could donate even $50K to each and every Parents and Friends/Citizens organisation in the country and be sure it would be spent very quickly and in the vast majority of cases on something critically required by the school. Even conservatives like me would support that. At the state primary school my children recently left they didn&#8217;t even have the budgetary capacity to replace the flyscreens nor maintain bars of soap in the toilets. That&#8217;s not the responsiblity of the P&amp;F/C but demonstrates how cash strapped some schools are and therefore guarantees any injection of cash has a very high chance of being spent on something sensible although these two examples argue for a permanent increase in budgets not one-offs.</p>
<p>Mark thanks for links about the pre Xmas stimulus package and how it compared to Treasury estimates. The jury is still out in my mind on the package but I would not have seen those results if I hadn&#8217;t visited this site which I guess goes to show it is important for all of us to visit the other sides sites frequently.<br />
I understand Rudd&#8217;s logic with wanting to hold up retail sales the trouble he hits now is the positive boost to the national pysche rightly or wrongly has been competed out by the &#8220;it was a waste&#8221; commentary. I think Rudd needs to explain it better in terms of its all about getting through 2009 in reasonable shape. The bottom can&#8217;t be much more than 6 months away so if we can weather the storm the damage shouldn&#8217;t be too ugly.</p>
<p>Ultimately I think this issue comes down to whether you believe in the simple merits of maintaining aggregate demand through the &#8220;storm&#8221; by any means necessary versus a natural aversion to &#8220;wasteful&#8221; non-lasting expenditure. I can see both sides of the argument.</p>
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		<title>By: smokey</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172740</link>
		<dc:creator>smokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 05:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172740</guid>
		<description>Oh shit, my daughter just moved out. I think I&#039;m no longer getting quite the fistful of $ I thought I was. Am I even getting anything now that I&#039;m not actually a working family, but just a worker with bloody high rent?

Seriously, she just moved out. What timing FFS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh shit, my daughter just moved out. I think I&#8217;m no longer getting quite the fistful of $ I thought I was. Am I even getting anything now that I&#8217;m not actually a working family, but just a worker with bloody high rent?</p>
<p>Seriously, she just moved out. What timing FFS!</p>
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		<title>By: yeti</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172739</link>
		<dc:creator>yeti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172739</guid>
		<description>...those guitars that are like, double guitars, you know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;those guitars that are like, double guitars, you know?</p>
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		<title>By: hannah's dad</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172738</link>
		<dc:creator>hannah's dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 14:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172738</guid>
		<description>I saw my name mentioned in #25 re &#039;wish list&#039;.

A couple of things .
You can get a variety of items on a wish list, from small to huge, from several sectors of a school community. Note that last word, I&#039;ll come back to it.

All but one of the schools I worked in were inherently bloody ugly soul-less places. And a lot of work went into rectifying that by lots of people,staff and students in particular.
Gardens, patios, ponds, art displays, sports grounds etc. At least 3 schools I was at embarked on tree planting exercises [not just for the sake of trees as such but to provide shade, shelter, ambience], play areas, shelter sheds, sheds for storage, a whole host of &#039;small&#039; wish items. Communities [there&#039;s that word again] chipped in with expertise, materials, labour what have you.
Ask me what I wanted as faculty head and I would give you a pre considered list on the spot.

At the &#039;upper&#039; levels of management I doubt if there is a school where the principal/school council boss couldn&#039;t reach into the filing cabinet and produce within 2 minutes plans for a costed architect designed item, such as auditorium, gymnasium, multi-purpose building [wet area, stage, sound set up], that sort of thing for a variety of functions.
Ready to go, lacking only approval and money.
And in many cases, particularly low socio-economic suburban schools and small rural schools, the community would have access to such facilities, in some cases dependent on such.
Sports clubs, adult education [whatever your local name is for such], the whole gamut of community groups.
Library/resource areas in particular.

Unless you have been involved in this sort of thing, and I would be surprised if many here have not been involved as parents, community leaders, teachers, local businesses, then you may not be aware of how pervasive and integrated into a community schools can be. Particularly primary and rural schools.
They can be, usually are community hubs.
[Which just made me wonder what sectors constitute this population at this place??]

Forget for the moment the economics, consider the impact, socially, on a local community if a school, outa the blue, can go ahead with a physical building that has ramifications for most, old and young, in the community.

I dunno about all the rest of the &#039;stimulus&#039;, I would like to see some personnel added to the package [and I&#039;d like to put a commercial in for the &#039;ancillary&#039; staff in schools, the backbone of schools and more important than principals, and its a smart principal who knows that] and other quibbles, but really this development of schools idea is bloody genius.
I like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw my name mentioned in #25 re &#8216;wish list&#8217;.</p>
<p>A couple of things .<br />
You can get a variety of items on a wish list, from small to huge, from several sectors of a school community. Note that last word, I&#8217;ll come back to it.</p>
<p>All but one of the schools I worked in were inherently bloody ugly soul-less places. And a lot of work went into rectifying that by lots of people,staff and students in particular.<br />
Gardens, patios, ponds, art displays, sports grounds etc. At least 3 schools I was at embarked on tree planting exercises [not just for the sake of trees as such but to provide shade, shelter, ambience], play areas, shelter sheds, sheds for storage, a whole host of &#8216;small&#8217; wish items. Communities [there's that word again] chipped in with expertise, materials, labour what have you.<br />
Ask me what I wanted as faculty head and I would give you a pre considered list on the spot.</p>
<p>At the &#8216;upper&#8217; levels of management I doubt if there is a school where the principal/school council boss couldn&#8217;t reach into the filing cabinet and produce within 2 minutes plans for a costed architect designed item, such as auditorium, gymnasium, multi-purpose building [wet area, stage, sound set up], that sort of thing for a variety of functions.<br />
Ready to go, lacking only approval and money.<br />
And in many cases, particularly low socio-economic suburban schools and small rural schools, the community would have access to such facilities, in some cases dependent on such.<br />
Sports clubs, adult education [whatever your local name is for such], the whole gamut of community groups.<br />
Library/resource areas in particular.</p>
<p>Unless you have been involved in this sort of thing, and I would be surprised if many here have not been involved as parents, community leaders, teachers, local businesses, then you may not be aware of how pervasive and integrated into a community schools can be. Particularly primary and rural schools.<br />
They can be, usually are community hubs.<br />
[Which just made me wonder what sectors constitute this population at this place??]</p>
<p>Forget for the moment the economics, consider the impact, socially, on a local community if a school, outa the blue, can go ahead with a physical building that has ramifications for most, old and young, in the community.</p>
<p>I dunno about all the rest of the &#8216;stimulus&#8217;, I would like to see some personnel added to the package [and I'd like to put a commercial in for the 'ancillary' staff in schools, the backbone of schools and more important than principals, and its a smart principal who knows that] and other quibbles, but really this development of schools idea is bloody genius.<br />
I like it.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris (a different one)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172737</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris (a different one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172737</guid>
		<description>Mark @ 36 - I think there is a maximum waiting period of 13 weeks regardless  of the amount of liquid assets that you have as long as you don&#039;t exceed the general assets test which is quite generous (~$170k for single homeowners, more for couples and renters)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark @ 36 &#8211; I think there is a maximum waiting period of 13 weeks regardless  of the amount of liquid assets that you have as long as you don&#8217;t exceed the general assets test which is quite generous (~$170k for single homeowners, more for couples and renters)</p>
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		<title>By: joe2</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172736</link>
		<dc:creator>joe2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172736</guid>
		<description>Hey Ken, I find it curious that while you sensibly object to someone on one and a half grand a week being given a gift of $950 you would give a special pass to the same fella when he loses his salary in the form of a higher dole payment for a while.

That two tier system reminds me how centrelink once treated the professional and the unskilled in a different manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ken, I find it curious that while you sensibly object to someone on one and a half grand a week being given a gift of $950 you would give a special pass to the same fella when he loses his salary in the form of a higher dole payment for a while.</p>
<p>That two tier system reminds me how centrelink once treated the professional and the unskilled in a different manner.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172735</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172735</guid>
		<description>Ha! Maybe the alcopops tax was a bad idea after all - could impede a binge-drinking led recovery! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Maybe the alcopops tax was a bad idea after all &#8211; could impede a binge-drinking led recovery! <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Labor Outsider</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172734</link>
		<dc:creator>Labor Outsider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172734</guid>
		<description>In terms of measured GDP - the former because Australia does not manufacture plasma TVs and hence a smaller share of the value-added is done in Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of measured GDP &#8211; the former because Australia does not manufacture plasma TVs and hence a smaller share of the value-added is done in Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: dinoworx</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172733</link>
		<dc:creator>dinoworx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/05/stimulated/#comment-172733</guid>
		<description>Quick question.  Who contributes more to this lagging economy, a young tax paying single who goes on a domestic beer, fish and chips fueled bender spending $950 with their unemployed mates, or a similar person spending $950 on a plasma TV?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick question.  Who contributes more to this lagging economy, a young tax paying single who goes on a domestic beer, fish and chips fueled bender spending $950 with their unemployed mates, or a similar person spending $950 on a plasma TV?</p>
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