Thanks to commenter Bird of paradox on a previous thread for drawing my attention to the creation of a Facebook group “Come on Turnbull, don’t take away my $950 bucks !”. As of this morning, it was the largest political Facebook group in Australia with 5000 members and a goal of 8000 by 9pm tonight. They’ll easily reach that. When I checked in five minutes ago, there were 7887 members. Another 60 have joined now. The group creator describes his motivation this way:
We are sending a clear message that Australians need this boost. As a uni student I need help to buy my text books, my mother is a single parent who needs help and my brother is heading into year 12 and he needs it….
Think about how much difference this bonus will make to you and your families…
The group page also provides information on how to lobby Senators.
Very interesting indeed.
Elsewhere: Terry Flew.
Elsewhere: The Age:
Australians planning to spend Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s promised $950 bonus on holidays, new drum kits, Wii games, tattoos and weekend-long benders have flooded into a new Facebook group.
At Catallaxy, Jason Soon thinks we’re “luvvies”. Quelle surprise! No doubt John Greenfield will be along soon to show off the calibre of intellectual debate Catallaxy is renowned for all over the intertubes.
Update: 465333 members as of 1.30pm Saturday Brisbane time.
Well it looks as though my sample of one has gone forth and multiplied.
Could I now say we have a sample of 10,000? in one fucking day??
See “Small sample I know; but I get home tonight an the 25 year old totally apolitical Me generation says. “looks as though we won’t get the money after all” I say why? She says because that pr**k Malcolm Turnbull wants to take it off us”. Yesterday she had never heard of the turd.
Well done Malcolm!
She and her mates do vote BTW.”
They also know how to use the intertubes to oirganise it seems.
Huggy
12000 by 10pm is the new goal after achieving the 8000 in the last hour or so. This also looks to be an easily obtainable goal with the group fast approaching 9000.
Yep, I joined a minute ago when it was 8,906 so I’m sure they’ll be up to 9,000 in the next few minutes. They could up their goal to 20,000 by 10 pm and probably still meet it, at this rate.
I wonder if this will get similar MSM coverage to a ‘Facebook Party’ ?
Absolutely right, Dr Cat. It took precisely four minutes to get to 9010.
Speaking of the Intertubes – from Turnbull’s Youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqn3euKJBTc
Defending the indefensible.
this group is still bigger:
http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/group.php?gid=48616273632&ref=ts
YES!!!
The reasons they give for opposing Turnbull’s block are ridiculous — “we need (i.e. want) the money”, basically. You don’t make political judgements just by consulting your own circumstances. Rudd could have given students $950 in early 2008, but that would have been a stupid idea.
That’s not to say Turnbull’s block isn’t facile.
I think if you go through those comments and replace every instance of the word “need” with the word “want” it will make a lot more sense…
I hate facebook and haven’t touched my account for more than a year. But I’m dusting it off right now. Though I wonder if it wouldn’t be better named for Fielding and Xenophon, seeing as they have all the cards.
What obnoxious handout mentality that is. Gimme gimme gimme.
That’s not to say that Turnbull isn’t foolish to oppose this.
Their contact details are on the front page.
Over 10 000 members now. I’d love to see someone plot an hourly timeline of growth for this facebook group.
You mean like this ?
To commenters #9, #10 and #12, my only excuse for joining up is that we who are child-free and self-employed think this may be our only go at the money shower before the water gets turned off. Also, I’m not entirely serious about this and I’m guessing the Facebook group isn’t either. No call for disapproval. Rly.
I’d love to see that done for a bundle of virally popular Facebook groups – it’s my inner mathematical modeller coming out to play.
I think it’d be a logistic curve (exponential growth for a while, then flattening out). Give it another year, there’ll probably be a PhD in it… I wonder if the data’s easy to get at.
I’m not expecting to find $950 in my bank account, but I would like to see money spent on roads and my kid’s school.
It’s not all one way traffic.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=58968809466
” What obnoxious handout mentality that is. Gimme gimme gimme.”
Gawd, give people a break. Likely as not most people are just taking the piss and what people do with their money is their business anyway. As if there aren’t enough pious politicians and preachers to give moralistic lectures without fellow citizens jumping on the bandwagon as well.
What joe2 said.
Who’s sermonising? I just think the trend in recent years to shower the Australian masses in handouts and grants sets a dangerous precedent. Middle-class welfare and purse politics should be avoided, no?
Really, I just joined for a bit of a lark.
Given that it’s going to students and people earning from 13k upwards and it gets less the further up the income ladder you go, I think it’s hardly to be classed willy nilly as “middle class welfare”. In addition, I think that there’s clearly a justification in terms of stimulating spending and confidence which was absent during the Howard years wrt his handouts.
To add to that, to my mind, it’s the first occasion something decent has been done for low income earners for a long time. I’m glad to see it from a Labor government – I’m liking them a lot better this year than last – with the glaring exceptions of climate change and net censorship!
Yeah, I get that a lot of people are taking the piss, but others are also deadly serious. The bloke who started the group says he ‘needs’ the money to buy his textbooks. Should we have a stimulus package every semester?
I agree with the stimulus as a means of softening the blow of the GFC, but I do think there is a cruel hangover from the Howard years awaiting us, in that people now expect the government to cough up the dosh every budget with ever more benefits. Look at misguided policies like the baby bonus etc.
I have to admit that I am guilty of a bit of the politics of envy, though. As a single, young student, I am not a ‘working family’. Accordingly, my tax dollars are transferred to help subsidise other people’s kids and to help prop up a housing market which will ensure I never afford my own home.
Malcolm is playing silly-bugger politics like the GOP in the US. For a multi-millionaire I believe he cares/understands very little about the plight of ordinary Joe Blow’s life.I doubt if he would so valiantly display his imaginary/fictional “doing the right thing” humbug if election is on next week.
Elsewhere: Terry Flew.
Isn’t it possible, circusmind, that the person in question might have had casual hours reduced or found it harder to find work over the uni holidays precisely because of the economic downturn?
Very possible. But the policy of a stimulus, as far as I understand it, is directed towards keeping the economic cogs turning, not welfare. One would hope that adjustment to welfare payments does not consist of a once-off cash payment to various broad groups.
“The bloke who started the group says he ‘needs’ the money to buy his textbooks. Should we have a stimulus package every semester?”
I would gladly chip in with my share of tax for textbooks if it helped keep him and you complete studies if it was needed. Targeting people in need should not be abolished just because Howard has given handups a bad name.
It won’t, circusmind. As I said on another thread, it’s been made clear that adjustments to benefits – including Newstart and Youth Allowance – is being considered as part of the Henry Review. I expect that will be the subject of announcements in the budget. I agree that it’s preferable that people in study or out of work or with disabilities or family/carer responsibilities be supported on an ongoing basis at a much more adequate level, but it’s plain that this announcement doesn’t rule that out. Quite the contrary, in fact.
And again, what joe2 said!
Surely the point of this is not whether or not they really need it, or just want it, but that in a short space of time a good number of people are demonstrating that Malcolm picked the wrong end of the stick. People, rightly or wrongly, think things are going to get worse and see a bit of money as a way to make their lives a bit easier and think that is good. For this they want to thank the government and tell MT to bugger off with his worry about tomorrows children (yes of course that is who he is concerned for). This is not about whether it works, it is about making people feel good (while also being told to worry due to how bad it all is). The interesting bit in all of this, particularly in relation to the cash handouts, is it seems to be as much about making Rudd look powerful and in control (telling us how bad it is, but giving us a cookie at the same time so we feel better) as it is about “staving off recession”.
I feel I have become my father….what sort of self-respecting starving uni student whinges about government handouts!
I’m pretty sure Matt Dixon ran as an ALP candidate in recent NSW council elections.
However, that shouldn’t to detract from the benefits of the $950 payment which will help a lot of people, in particular students on youth allowance.
12,497: they’re four hours ahead of themselves.
Elsewhere: The Age:
At Catallaxy, Jason Soon thinks we’re “luvvies”. Quelle surprise! No doubt John Greenfield will be along soon to show off the calibre of intellectual debate Catallaxy is renowned for all over the intertubes.
Have you seen the small startup opposing group
http://en-gb.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48127432123
I just had a look. Charming. “Julia Gillard rapes children”. That transcends undergraduate Young Liberal silliness and becomes really offensive in all manner of ways.
I’ve just made the following report – I suggest everyone else do the same to that post.
“Have you seen the small startup opposing group”
I hadn’t and now I wish I didn’t. I actually find it a tad hysterical to liken the package to child abuse and that first comment was downright offensive.
Yeah! The new “Real Politik” – Mass internetted public pressure!
BTW, is this a Newspoll Weekend?
Should be interesting.
Consider myself joined.
It’s good to see more money going to lower income groups not just because they spend it and are therefore more likely to boost the economy quickly, but because it gives those people a sense of power, being agents, for a change.
Money is power and energy. Mal and co’s sober tax cuts mean the power to withhold and keep the energy inside a small, comfortable group.
Btw, didn’t Howard swear, repeatedly, on behalf of the Liberal Party, that interest rates would always be lower under them than under Labour? (Apology please.)…as if, those blokes would say anything to win.
I find it difficult to comprehend the amazing stupidity of Malcolm and the Lemmings party.
They cannot possibly win this one. If they succeed in blocking the package they are going to wear the consequences forever.
A far smarter tactic would be to stand aside and let it through with lot’s of pious hand-wringing.
If the “unrepresentative swill” from the minor parties let it through the lemmings will be seen as impotent. If it is blocked they will be seen as the cause of the great depression.
I predict that one or two of the smarter ones will cross the floor in the senate – possibly with the covert support of Malcolm in the muddle.
Huggy
The FB group may well get to 20000 tonight – 17632 members now. Considering a lot of people can’t access FB during the day at work…
We are a patriotic lot, most of us want that $950 so we can do our little bit to simulate the economy. Kevin was right to trust us.
Mark, Malcolm should be congratulated for politicising 20,000 of the “look at me” generation.
Maybe they will finally get off their arses and demand the same free university places that Malcolm probably benefited from. Like to see some sit-ins and deans office occupations and hex debt burnings.
Huggy
I’m not sure how you’d burn a HECS debt, huggybunny! Every time I get a notice about my never diminishing one I’m tempted to burn it but sadly it still never diminishes!
19,871 @ 20:10 eastern standard time
20033 now!
And 20,054 now – that be 9.16pm AWDT, which is whatever it is over east.
(I just realised Qld is only an hour ahead of WA… how the hell does that work?)
Malvolio keeps blethering on about tax cuts, but if I’m what I’m hearing and reading is right, unemployment will soon be on the rise and if you’re unemployed tax cuts are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
I’ve also noticed the inane ranting about how the surplus has all gone and we’ll be rooned if Tip isn’t given the keys to the cashbox. Haven’t these morons noticed that the world is teetering on the edge of financial oblivion and that their messiah has never managed an economy in recession?
The question they should be asking themselves is how, if the country was as awash with cash as they claim, their hero couldn’t manage to squirrel away more than a paltry $40bn for a rainy day? The rainy day has arrived and there’s not too much in the piggy bank, so what the hell was he doing while the sun shone?
No daylight saving in Qld. You’re half an hour behind us here in SA, because normally you’d be half an hour in front.
What Jane @ 53 said.
Also, to state the bleeding obvious, a once-off cash giveaway is a once-off. Tax cuts are forever – they erode your revenue base well into the future.
And, Malcornholio keeps mentioning the future generations. Why isn’t this ever mentioned by him in the context of CPRS? Oh that’s right. They’ll need the cash to build the new waterworld-city they’ll need.
Frank @ 40.
Yes, very offensive comment. I have also reported it.
What Tyro Rex said about CPRS. I think ‘future generations’ should bite Malcolm and co on the bum over a whole range of issues.
Mark I would join in yr like more list faster if there wasn’t a fundamental problem here. That is is if the government of the day commits to enough outlays then they can easily undermine democracy for years to come – the following governments will have no room to move and be reduced to carrying out the oppositions mandate.
Whats democracy got to do with it?
And besides all that…what has the State done for us lately?
Modern ‘ workers states’ have actually killed more people in worse ways than the Nazi’s… as if I need to remind a clever guy like you.
I have since reported the entire site for it’s title
and have passed it onto Pollbludger, who are also suitably outraged.
Looking at the counter list I noticed that one of them has a Obama t-shirt as their profile pic, and at least one other has pro Obama things on their site. Since I can’t access most of the pages this is actually quite a substantial percentage.
I wonder if these people realise that what Rudd is doing isn’t all that different from Obama’s package. More likely it just shows how shallow the analysis of the young Libs is these days. It’s coming from Rudd so it must be really, really bad. On the other hand Obama isn’t a direct enemy and speaks well so its ok to consider him cool.
“Jason Soon thinks we’re “luvvies”.”
I still don’t know what ‘luvvies’ are. Can anyone explain?
“unemployment will soon be on the rise”
Oh noes, 7% unemployment (or 8% or 9%), whatever will we do, save us, it’s a catastrophe! I mean, that’s practically European Union levels!
“if you’re unemployed tax cuts are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.”
Directly, sure. But indirectly, it depends on the tax cut. Abolishing payroll tax, for example, would increase employment.
“Tax cuts are forever – they erode your revenue base well into the future.”
Excellent. Maybe then governments will stop wasting so much on corporate welfare and pointless stimuli… *snort* Well, I almost got through the whole sentence with a straight face.
It also looks like the young Libs aren’t strong on Maths. Their site says that the package “will add at least $10,000 of debt to every man, woman and child…”. With $21 million people that would be $210billion. I don’t think the package is that large.
They refer above to it taking debt to over $200 billion. I’m not sure where they get the figure from, but if most of this debt is already there, nothing Rudd does will *add* $10,000 debt per person.
And of course if people use the money to pay off their own debt the total amount of debt doesn’t rise, it just shifts from individual to government. Behold, the future of the Liberal Party.
And remember, about 30% of the voting population of Australia wouldn’t dream of voting for anybody else. That’s a bloody lot of people.
!! 23000 members now
Mark @49
Hex debts. Actually you are going to pay in the future for something that Costello and a whole lot of fellow memebers of the HR Nicholls society had us the taxpayer pay for – right?
Here is the plan:
1. All the students with Hex debts and those who have begun paying them off tear up the contracts in public; whatever it takes to stop payments.
2. The Costello government then has no option but to build a vast complex of detention centres, thus providing a massive one off boost to the economy.
3. Employment surges and immigration goes up as we bring in Guatanamo Bay guards and Abu Grhaib veterans to oversee the treatment of the pointy heads.
4. In the middle of each detention centre we build one of your massive nuclear reactors.
5. These cause such pervasive mutations in the pointy heads that they abandon their quest for $950:00 and turn into model citizens and promise to repay their hex debts after all.
That should work.
Huggy
HECS? hex ??
is witchcraft involved, Huggy?
Jarrah: as I understand it, a “luvvie” is supposedly a person who doesn’t think clearly, and bases all their attitudes on a kind of “group hug”-must-be-in-with-the-cool-crowd stance. First time I heard it, the word was applied to a mob of theatrical enthusiasts, who would LOVE anything they deemed “artistic” regardless of quality [as judged by others]. I think Sgr Strocchi enjoys labelling any persons he deems to be “leftie” as “luvvies”. Apolgies for the vagueness, and I stand to be corrected, but the concept and terminology is probably at its heart nebulous, amorphous, and ineffectual. It can also, perhaps not accidentally, be associated with meandering and interminable prose, which [in this instance only] I will now – regretfully – draw to a close.
Related anecdote about Alan Greenspan: ” When he was being questioned by somebody in the Senate Committee, one of the questioners said, “oh so what you’re saying is……” and gave his interpretation of what had happened and Alan said something like, “Well if you think you’ve understood what I was saying, I obviously didn’t explain myself properly.” ” [BBC Radio 4 retrospective on Greenspan]
My personal favourite is this one:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=48993165185&ref=nf
Over 30,000 members now. I wonder when it’ll stop growing…
Has anybody told Malcolm?
over 30.000. That’s more than the population of Armidale! (c. 20,000 without students.)
That offensive comment is still up at the offensive counter-site. How long does it take Facebook to deal with this stuff?
Update: 465333 members as of 1.30pm Saturday Brisbane time.
I notice Senator Ian Macdonald has joined the “financial child abuse” group. He may regret it, particularly since the comment about Gillard was still up when he did. Labor can have a ball with that.
Also notice that a random sample of the pro-package group shows 70% women. The anti groups – not just the child abuse one but a more restrained one, have the typical Liberal group membership of about 85% male.
Macdonald, of course, may well not be driving the controls of his own Facebook account – could be a juvenile staffer…
There’s a lot more small startup opposing groups now.
The Gillard comment is still there. And if Ian Macdonald is who I think he is (MP from Toowoomba with a voice like a two-way radio?), he probably doesn’t know what the internet is.
Also, one of the guys in that group pulled out ye olde ‘Krudd’ epithet. Searchable profile -> what a surprise, it’s a law student from UWA. As a sometime maths student from a much less pretty part of that uni and a longer commute, I’d like to re-insert his western suburbs silver spoon somewhere else. Another one reckons the Gov Gen oughta sack the PM before our economy goes the way of Zimbabwe. Fools.
As for the original group, it’s now up to 49,000 members. Looks like Turnbull’s lost the ‘Generation Y’ vote…
No, that’s Ian Mcfarlane, Member for Groom you’re thinking of. Ian Macdonald is a rather undistinguished Liberal Senator from North Queensland.
And the guy behind the Gillard comment is doing Arts/Law. Not exactly a smart move for his future legal career if the comment gets widely distributed. It would have been better if Facebook had acted on complaints (from me, among others) and yanked the comment. Anyone could take a screenshot and send it on. Anyone.
What a good idea. Maybe somebody with the technological expertise could send it to the Law faculty he studies at? (What is his uni? I might e-mail it off to them myself. Maybe somebody could just post their e-mail address?
UQ (another nice little sandstone university), graduates in 2012, which I guess makes him a second year, if that’s a five year course. Also private schooled. There’s a whole industry of future Liberal politicians out there…
I’m aware I’ve got identifying information on my Facebook profile, and I’m willing to stand by everything I say on there; if I’m not, I probably don’t say it. I wonder if these guys have considered that?
Paul: when I wrote “Anyone could take a screenshot and send it on”, I wasn’t hinting that people should. But then I don’t know what should be done.
Perhaps letting the Law faculty know would be a good start. I would prefer that one of the lecturers draws him aside and have “words” about his stupidity and the possible consequences thereof. Don’t kick him out of the University of Queensland. Just give him a verbal bollocking that he remembers.
Good lord. The more I read of this guy’s profile, the more I worry. He’s got quotes by Joh Bjelke-Petersen, Hitler and the Bible. Got a link to his blog too, where he discusses what he wears to lectures (hint: it’s a couple of levels above what I’ll be wearing to graduate next month). Damn law students… why can’t they be more like the one I used to live with in the unfashionable outer suburbs? He was OK.
Bird of Paradox,
Have it on reliable info that the first lecture in first year law is on how to bill clients. Seriously.