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	<title>Comments on: The Overshadow</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175508</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175508</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/thunder-bolts-and-a-lowwattage-moment-20090219-8cjx.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stalking the Overshadow through the undergrowth&lt;/a&gt;, David Attenborough style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/thunder-bolts-and-a-lowwattage-moment-20090219-8cjx.html" rel="nofollow">Stalking the Overshadow through the undergrowth</a>, David Attenborough style.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175507</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175507</guid>
		<description>Could Minchin and Abetz reallistically kick up a storm about the sacking of a previously unknown shadow Parliamentary Secretary? They&#039;d just look like fools and Malcolm would be sure to leak it. I don&#039;t want popcorn. I&#039;m gonna order a couple of pizzas, some chocolate fudge and two large Cokes!
The horrible thought has occured to me - what if Pyne had joined the Labor Party? - Oh, Gawd, pass me the spew bucket!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could Minchin and Abetz reallistically kick up a storm about the sacking of a previously unknown shadow Parliamentary Secretary? They&#8217;d just look like fools and Malcolm would be sure to leak it. I don&#8217;t want popcorn. I&#8217;m gonna order a couple of pizzas, some chocolate fudge and two large Cokes!<br />
The horrible thought has occured to me &#8211; what if Pyne had joined the Labor Party? &#8211; Oh, Gawd, pass me the spew bucket!</p>
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		<title>By: Labor Outsider</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175506</link>
		<dc:creator>Labor Outsider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175506</guid>
		<description>According to the IMF&#039;s World Economic Outlook database, Australia was ranked 13th in per-capita income in 2008 in PPP terms.

That position is better than it looks because we are behind countries like Ireland and Iceland whose economies have collapsed over the past 12 months, and Luxembourg, which has a population of only 400,000 and is an oddly stuctured principality.

Our per-capita income was higher than Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the UK, New Zealand - but behind, the US, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Sinapore and Norway.

Australia&#039;s ranking was more or less in continuous decline through the 20th century and bottomed out during the 1980s - curiously around the same time as the Hawke-Keating reforms.

The Harvester judgement you talk about, was part of the reason for the decline during the 20th century because the wages delivered were not associated with higher productivity than other countries, but tariff protection - it was simply unsustainable.

If you were to chart the Human Development Index over the course of the last 100 years, you would find a steady rise in absolute terms, but a decline in relative terms during the first 90 years of the twentieth century. So, again, unless all you think is relevant is relative comparisons, I would say that in absolute terms Australia is much wealthier than it has ever been, but in relative terms, was once more highly placed. In terms of the social capital arguments you made, I think those are debatable as it depends on what weight you place on the things we have now, that we didn&#039;t then - in my view the much greater openness of Australian society now is worth quite a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the IMF&#8217;s World Economic Outlook database, Australia was ranked 13th in per-capita income in 2008 in PPP terms.</p>
<p>That position is better than it looks because we are behind countries like Ireland and Iceland whose economies have collapsed over the past 12 months, and Luxembourg, which has a population of only 400,000 and is an oddly stuctured principality.</p>
<p>Our per-capita income was higher than Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the UK, New Zealand &#8211; but behind, the US, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Sinapore and Norway.</p>
<p>Australia&#8217;s ranking was more or less in continuous decline through the 20th century and bottomed out during the 1980s &#8211; curiously around the same time as the Hawke-Keating reforms.</p>
<p>The Harvester judgement you talk about, was part of the reason for the decline during the 20th century because the wages delivered were not associated with higher productivity than other countries, but tariff protection &#8211; it was simply unsustainable.</p>
<p>If you were to chart the Human Development Index over the course of the last 100 years, you would find a steady rise in absolute terms, but a decline in relative terms during the first 90 years of the twentieth century. So, again, unless all you think is relevant is relative comparisons, I would say that in absolute terms Australia is much wealthier than it has ever been, but in relative terms, was once more highly placed. In terms of the social capital arguments you made, I think those are debatable as it depends on what weight you place on the things we have now, that we didn&#8217;t then &#8211; in my view the much greater openness of Australian society now is worth quite a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Labor Outsider</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175505</link>
		<dc:creator>Labor Outsider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175505</guid>
		<description>DeeCee, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you really claiming that because Australian&#039;s per-capita incomes were higher than other countries in the 19th century that we were wealthier than than now? Really? So only relative comparisons matter, not absolute comparisons? That would be like saying that if Australians&#039; life expectancy was 40 and all other countries were below that, we would be better off than if our life expectancy was 80 and there were a few countries at 85. Today, we are much better eduacted, even average income earners can afford things like international travel, we are healthier (life expectancy, child mortality rates, etc), society is more culturally diverse (the white australia policy is no more), etc, government provides a lot more protection to citizens through social welfare. I think you are looking at the past through rose coloured glasses. Both absolute and relative wealth matter.

And in PPP adjusted terms, per-capita incomes in Australia are in the top ten in the world (and this is looking like increasing over the next few years given the dramatic falls in output among other industrialised countries) - we actually slid down in the international tables in per-capita terms during the 20th century for a number of reasons, but in large part because of the Australian settlement built around high industrial tariffs and high wages behind that tariff wall. Our industries were horrendously uncompetititve in international markets and productivity growth was weaker than for most other industrialised countries. It wasn&#039;t until the Hawke-Keating reforms that Australia began to improve its relative position in the world, and even then it took time to take effect.

So, unless the only thing that matters is our relative per-capita incomes and wealth, it is you that is wrong, not Hockey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DeeCee, I have no idea what you are talking about.</p>
<p>Are you really claiming that because Australian&#8217;s per-capita incomes were higher than other countries in the 19th century that we were wealthier than than now? Really? So only relative comparisons matter, not absolute comparisons? That would be like saying that if Australians&#8217; life expectancy was 40 and all other countries were below that, we would be better off than if our life expectancy was 80 and there were a few countries at 85. Today, we are much better eduacted, even average income earners can afford things like international travel, we are healthier (life expectancy, child mortality rates, etc), society is more culturally diverse (the white australia policy is no more), etc, government provides a lot more protection to citizens through social welfare. I think you are looking at the past through rose coloured glasses. Both absolute and relative wealth matter.</p>
<p>And in PPP adjusted terms, per-capita incomes in Australia are in the top ten in the world (and this is looking like increasing over the next few years given the dramatic falls in output among other industrialised countries) &#8211; we actually slid down in the international tables in per-capita terms during the 20th century for a number of reasons, but in large part because of the Australian settlement built around high industrial tariffs and high wages behind that tariff wall. Our industries were horrendously uncompetititve in international markets and productivity growth was weaker than for most other industrialised countries. It wasn&#8217;t until the Hawke-Keating reforms that Australia began to improve its relative position in the world, and even then it took time to take effect.</p>
<p>So, unless the only thing that matters is our relative per-capita incomes and wealth, it is you that is wrong, not Hockey.</p>
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		<title>By: David Irving (no relation)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175504</link>
		<dc:creator>David Irving (no relation)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175504</guid>
		<description>Oh, the shame! s/who&#039;s/whose</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, the shame! s/who&#8217;s/whose</p>
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		<title>By: thewetmale</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175503</link>
		<dc:creator>thewetmale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175503</guid>
		<description>It seems logical that Pyne could be a central figure in the de-stabilising of Bishop as he was firmly in the Costello camp when they were in government. I wonder if he feels a stronger loyalty to Costello or Turnbull, his loyalty to Costello apparently keeping him down during Howard&#039;s reign and he is clearly on the up with Turnbull as leader.

I can&#039;t help but think that Turnbull might not just be leading the &#039;moderate&#039; faction (as we are being told the &#039;Sydney moderates&#039; now run the show), but be straddling two groups, the &#039;moderates&#039; and the anti-Howard pro-Costello lot. Two groups that are not necessarily one and the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems logical that Pyne could be a central figure in the de-stabilising of Bishop as he was firmly in the Costello camp when they were in government. I wonder if he feels a stronger loyalty to Costello or Turnbull, his loyalty to Costello apparently keeping him down during Howard&#8217;s reign and he is clearly on the up with Turnbull as leader.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help but think that Turnbull might not just be leading the &#8216;moderate&#8217; faction (as we are being told the &#8216;Sydney moderates&#8217; now run the show), but be straddling two groups, the &#8216;moderates&#8217; and the anti-Howard pro-Costello lot. Two groups that are not necessarily one and the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiros</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175502</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175502</guid>
		<description>The Liberals are imploding. Turnbull has just sacked Parliamentary Secretary Corey Bernardini, a South Australian Senator from the Right, for attacking Pyne.

Minchin, Abetz and the rest of the stormtroopers aren&#039;t going to take this lying down. Hot damn! Strap yourselves in and pass the popcorn. This should be quite a show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Liberals are imploding. Turnbull has just sacked Parliamentary Secretary Corey Bernardini, a South Australian Senator from the Right, for attacking Pyne.</p>
<p>Minchin, Abetz and the rest of the stormtroopers aren&#8217;t going to take this lying down. Hot damn! Strap yourselves in and pass the popcorn. This should be quite a show.</p>
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		<title>By: David Irving (no relation)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175501</link>
		<dc:creator>David Irving (no relation)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175501</guid>
		<description>I wonder what it would take to lure &lt;strike&gt;Achilles&lt;/strike&gt;Tip out of his tent, Paul.

Perhaps we can look forward to the prospect of a body being dragged some distance behind his chariot ... But who&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what it would take to lure <strike>Achilles</strike>Tip out of his tent, Paul.</p>
<p>Perhaps we can look forward to the prospect of a body being dragged some distance behind his chariot &#8230; But who&#8217;s?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175500</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175500</guid>
		<description>I gather the Overshadow has decided to cause real problems and NOT GO, but sit on the backbenches as a leader in waiting. Apparently Pyne was behind the undermining of Bishop in some way and Malcolm has rewarded it er, him, for it. This is futher encourging the Howardistas to become a faction of enrages. I can hear the tumbrils already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gather the Overshadow has decided to cause real problems and NOT GO, but sit on the backbenches as a leader in waiting. Apparently Pyne was behind the undermining of Bishop in some way and Malcolm has rewarded it er, him, for it. This is futher encourging the Howardistas to become a faction of enrages. I can hear the tumbrils already.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia WA</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175499</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia WA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/02/18/the-overshadow/#comment-175499</guid>
		<description>Andrew E at 12 - If your second option is a likely scenario, my own political bias  apart, Rudd seems our best hope for maintaining social cohesion if there is a major depression. Everything  one reads about his time in Queensland government administration suggests he would be able to conceive and marshal state and federal bureaucracies into massive and coordinated action to generate employment through infrastructure and renewal of social services. Thank heavens we have no &quot;empire&quot; as such to think of.  The French are already feeling social unrest &quot;outre-mer&quot; in Guadaloupe and increasingly there is unease as unemployment grows on mainland France.  Right wing Sarkozy is introducing stimulus packages aimed at both business and the disadvantaged and families with children returning to school.   He seems a different and better man showing statesmanlike anti-protectionist rhetoric and a real concern for the less fortunate.  I guess he doesn&#039;t relish the thought of an electoral guillotining.    Here in Australia Malcolm Turnbull has clearly thrown his chance to be a similar champion of the masses.  He has the oratory at least to have been a right wing populist leader at a time of economic downturn and social unrest. Too bad about Howard&#039;s legacy and now the &quot;Overshadow&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew E at 12 &#8211; If your second option is a likely scenario, my own political bias  apart, Rudd seems our best hope for maintaining social cohesion if there is a major depression. Everything  one reads about his time in Queensland government administration suggests he would be able to conceive and marshal state and federal bureaucracies into massive and coordinated action to generate employment through infrastructure and renewal of social services. Thank heavens we have no &#8220;empire&#8221; as such to think of.  The French are already feeling social unrest &#8220;outre-mer&#8221; in Guadaloupe and increasingly there is unease as unemployment grows on mainland France.  Right wing Sarkozy is introducing stimulus packages aimed at both business and the disadvantaged and families with children returning to school.   He seems a different and better man showing statesmanlike anti-protectionist rhetoric and a real concern for the less fortunate.  I guess he doesn&#8217;t relish the thought of an electoral guillotining.    Here in Australia Malcolm Turnbull has clearly thrown his chance to be a similar champion of the masses.  He has the oratory at least to have been a right wing populist leader at a time of economic downturn and social unrest. Too bad about Howard&#8217;s legacy and now the &#8220;Overshadow&#8221;.</p>
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