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16 responses to “Taxes vs. public goods Round 6737”

  1. Craig Mc

    NOW Tanner wants to talk about fiscal responsibility? $42B too late.

  2. Mark

    Well, in a way, I agree, Craig Mc. If we’re in the business of stimulating the economy, pumping more in rather than taking it out makes sense.

    I think Quiggin’s argument about bang for buck with tax cuts also makes sense.

  3. joe2

    Oh please, Craig Mc, not that boring old Liberal scare nonsense.

    As Tanner rightly said, the debt is the equivalent of “a person on $100,000 a year borrowing $5000″. Under the circumstances a very worthy spend that the Libs would have matched anyway apart from redirecting it towards people who did very nicely in the boom period and less likely to need it anyway.

  4. Chris

    I would be rather surprised if the tax cuts for the higher income brackets haven’t already been removed from the new budget. I think there will still be extra efficiency dividends though requested though. Surely with the downturn there would be some government departments with less work to do? And others like centrelink that would need more resources.

    Nor is bracket creep a huge concern at the moment, and the rivers of revenue to be distributed have receded rapidly.

    Bracket creep is never a huge concern and governments like to frame it as giving a tax cut rather than “not taking more”. I’d rather the tax brackets were indexed – if governments need to raise more money through income tax then they should have to justify it – it shouldn’t be the default position every year.

  5. Helen

    For people in Melbourne, there’s a pub tax reform seminar coming up shortly. I saw the article in the dead tree version so I’ll try and find it online and post a link. AFAIK it’s being held from 6 8 on a weekday so if you’re working then maybe you can attend. I’ll follow up soon… (People who like to weigh in with the cynical it’s all a publicity stunt angle, yes, I know, but equally it would look good if a few of us fronted up with our 2c worth and looked, you know, engaged…)

  6. Helen

    “Dead tree version” = The AGE

    Yes here we are.

    Taxman invites all your suggestions

    * Peter Martin
    * March 12, 2009

    PRACTICAL Australians with ideas about how to improve the tax system will get a once-in-a-generation opportunity to put them to the people who matter Monday week.

    Treasury boss Ken Henry has hired a room in Melbourne’ Jasper Hotel, next to Queen Victoria Market, to hear all-comers from 6 to 8pm.

    “You may remember my conversation with a businessman ‘Jim’ of Jericho in central Queensland,” he says in an message posted on the Henry Tax Review website.

    “It drew my attention to some of the tax and transfer complexities ordinary Australians have to deal with in their everyday lives.”

    As Dr Henry later explained to the Press Club last year, the fabled Jim taught him that fencing wire could be treated in several different ways for tax purposes even though it was “just fencing wire”.

    The Treasury Secretary said the conversation helped persuade him that “the bar room conversations of practical people sometimes contain more wisdom than high-brow policy seminars”.

    The Jasper Hotel meeting on March 23 will be followed by a meeting at the Geelong Conference Centre the following day, one of the only consultation meetings outside the capital cities.

    “We want to approach issues from the perspectives of everyday citizens,” Dr Henry says in the message.

    The Henry Review is required to report by the end of the year. It will submit a separate report on the tax treatment of Australia’s retirement incomes system at the end of this month.

    http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au

    Link may not work – it didn’t before, but no time to check, sorry..

  7. professor rat

    Social-democrats could do worse than follow tried-and-true tradition. That is they behead a few aristocratic toffs and then take back some of the ill-gotten gains or all the child-molesting churches. No representation without taxation and vive l’revolucione!

  8. Craig Mc

    As Tanner rightly said, the debt is the equivalent of “a person on $100,000 a year borrowing $5000?.

    It’s reassuring to see the left yet again live up to its well-earned cliché of running up stupid levels of government debt. Well, it would be if I wasn’t one of the suckers who’ll have to pay it back.

    Again. Oh – and again. Oh, that’s right – and again.

  9. aj

    CraigMc, what did Turnbull say he would do…..oh, thats right run up debt :-p

  10. Eat The Rich

    I would be interested to see which areas of the economy are performing (relatively) strongly and why that is the case. Any takers?

  11. John Passant

    If, as Kevin Rudd appears to believe, the economic crisis can be fixed by increasing aggregate demand, then %52 billion is small beer for the task. It is about 5% of GDP spread over a few years.

    The lost output the Greet recession is and will cause is much greater than that.

    Why not do the obvious? Massively increase real wages. Oh, that might cut profits of individual companies. And profit is sacrosanct in our society, isn’t it?

    There’s the dilemma for capital. How to increase demand without increasing costs? Social democracy’s answer? Screw wages and watch jobs disappear but pretend to be doing something.

    So what do we end up with? The capitalist state overseeing the cleaning out of the Aegean stables (or creative destruction as some economists call it.) And fertilise the withering tree with a few bits of poodle poo worth $52 bn.

  12. John Passant

    Oops. I meant the Great Recession! And $52 bn. I must get sub-editor.

  13. joe2

    “It’s reassuring to see the left yet again live up to its well-earned cliché of running up stupid levels of government debt. Well, it would be if I wasn’t one of the suckers who’ll have to pay it back.”…from post 8.

    Look very closely @12….”It is about 5% of GDP spread over a few years”, Craig Mc.

    Just by saying a thing over and over, with cliche upon cliche, does not make it correct. It is a small amount of debt that should not be difficult to pay back. And “the left” will be there to help you with the payment, you poor dear soul. You may not believe it, but we all pay taxes regardless of our political colour.

  14. Thomas Paine

    Gee and I thought Costello did the same after 9/11

    Guess Liberal debt is pure white and doesn’t smell.

    Thats what I find disturbing about the Rudd [Obama] haters, they would rather sit back, get some high income tax cuts whilst and watch everyone lose their jobs.

    Their willingness to sacrifice a country for the sake of their personal pleasures and revenge defines the personal character of a neo liberal.

  15. Craig Mc

    Thats what I find disturbing about the Rudd [Obama] haters, they would rather sit back, get some high income tax cuts whilst and watch everyone lose their jobs.

    Actually, I’d rather see payroll and company taxes cut. That might actually persuade an employer to keep employing people.

    If Rudd has one serious tax reform in him he’ll find a way to replace payroll tax.

  16. Bingo Bango Boingo

    Exactly right, Craig Mc. Payroll tax is simply immoral. But clearly Rudd is not proposed ‘stupid’ levels of debt.

    Thomas Paine, what are you talking about re: Costello? There was one year of deficit, I think, that amounted to about $1 billion. It was more or less a rounding error.

    BBB

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