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	<title>Comments on: Democracy wins in Fiji</title>
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	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:56:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Manulevu</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160185</link>
		<dc:creator>Manulevu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In general, Nabakov, what you say rings true. Things here peaceful but rather tense. Apparently there have been arrests.

Interesting post at http://crosbiew.blogspot.com/2009/04/what-on-earth-did-court-expect.html


Yes. All very well for the Sydney blow-ins. A bit different for those who live here, especially the poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general, Nabakov, what you say rings true. Things here peaceful but rather tense. Apparently there have been arrests.</p>
<p>Interesting post at <a href="http://crosbiew.blogspot.com/2009/04/what-on-earth-did-court-expect.html" rel="nofollow">http://crosbiew.blogspot.com/2009/04/what-on-earth-did-court-expect.html</a></p>
<p>Yes. All very well for the Sydney blow-ins. A bit different for those who live here, especially the poor.</p>
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		<title>By: gordon</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160184</link>
		<dc:creator>gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160184</guid>
		<description>It would be nice if the Australian Govt. could come up with a more measured response than the unhelpful abuse which they are currently heaping on Bainamarama&#039;s regime. That sort of thing leads nowhere, except maybe to increase the level of paranoia and defensiveness in Fiji. Silence would be better, or a suitably open-ended and general expression of goodwill towards the Fijian people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be nice if the Australian Govt. could come up with a more measured response than the unhelpful abuse which they are currently heaping on Bainamarama&#8217;s regime. That sort of thing leads nowhere, except maybe to increase the level of paranoia and defensiveness in Fiji. Silence would be better, or a suitably open-ended and general expression of goodwill towards the Fijian people.</p>
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		<title>By: Nana levu</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160183</link>
		<dc:creator>Nana levu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160183</guid>
		<description>Here is a link to the fijiexilesboard http://fijiboardexiles.yuku.com/topic/2820 set up in 2000 when Fiji Military/Intelligence closed down a Fiji based board. G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a link to the fijiexilesboard <a href="http://fijiboardexiles.yuku.com/topic/2820" rel="nofollow">http://fijiboardexiles.yuku.com/topic/2820</a> set up in 2000 when Fiji Military/Intelligence closed down a Fiji based board. G</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160182</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 08:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160182</guid>
		<description>Speaking as a Kia Viti m&#039;self, I hafta to say the takes on the situation of Geoff@14, Nanu leva@18 and Manulevua@31 pretty much jibe with what I saw and understood of the place.

And both Nanu levu and Manulevu raised in different ways, the X-factor. It&#039;s the Pacific, the blokes are all on yaquona while the women get a lot of stuff sorted out behind the scenes (I used to play scrabble with Adi Lady Mara and she&#039;s about the only person I&#039;d trust in the whole wide wild world to be a truly benevolent dictator. In fact I have little problem with a true global government, provided it&#039;s helmed by a smart, tough, funny and worldly Fijian matriarch.)

Look at it this way. What happened in Fiji happened with many third world countries after being granted independence by carefree/bitter/confused/broke/scheming colonial powers.  And yet compared to say Africa, Fiji took 17 years for the first coup, the killing has barely reached double figures and very little blood has been deliberately split elsewhere (And what there was killed and spilled, has I bet led to many long circular yet sincere apologies over the yanqona bowl).

Which is not to say I&#039;d enjoy being driven hooded in a Landrover to the QV Barracks for a &quot;detailed appraisal of the situation&quot; at the hands of some of Bainimarama’s more messianic junior officers and troops.

It&#039;s bad and sad what&#039;s happened to Fiji since May 1987. But it could be worse. At least a tough, proud, tribal and caste-ridden island warrior nation with a great sense of humour and certain savoir-faire/lazzie-faire attitudes towards sea-surrounded trade garrisons got to colonise Fiji before the French, Germans or Americans.

&quot;Fiji’s Council of Chiefs is just one example of an extraordinary domestic power that could be realistically seen to pose a problem for any Westminster style democratic order.&quot;

&quot;What bollocks. Fiji’s Great Council of Chiefs was created by the British Colonial regime, so as to present a thin veneer of democracy,&quot;

Um MikeM, these two points do not contradict eachother.

&quot;I understand a massive percentage of Fiji’s foreign exchange income is in the form of wages to Fijian soldiers on active service as UN Peacekeepers elsewhere in the world.
What are the implications here?&quot;

It means that in addition to Fijians being naturally brilliant small unit soldiers, the RFMF is now very skilled in running roadblocks, checkpoints and other ways of managing the flow of civilians.

A few closing observations.

Fiji is the only country ever to ask to join the British Empire. Got knocked back twice. Third time lucky.

Fijians are as not as good barroom fighters as you expect. The ratio of shouting and strutting to effective punches thrown is entertaining but not always effective. I&#039;ve seen on Victoria Parade at different times, usually outside The Golden Dragon and across from the Olympic Baths, a wiry little West Indian guy take down to two massive Fijians, a USN SP defuse a looming bashing by smartly rapping a local in the nuts with a baton and a Fiji vs Tonga rugby match where the spectators thought they join the on pitch riot efficiently broken up by Fiji fijian and Indian police auxiliaries. I say efficiently because the riot rapidly dispersed and as we left the stadium, the Fijian and Tongan thumpers and thumpees were all mixed together, affably chatting away. A good old-fashioned punch up - followed by &#039;grog&#039;! And then another punch-up. In slow motion.


I don&#039;t think the phrase &quot;coup d&#039;etat&quot; is really that applicable to Fiji anyway. Ruthless split-second timing to install a brand regime overnight is just not the Fijian way. Yes, they&#039;ve done it but it keeps devolving down into
everyone knows eachother so how can you be really ruthless when it&#039;s your aunty&#039;s cousin&#039;s brother in law who forgot to call Inoke to leave the Raiwaqa service station open so the countercoup plotters could fill up their Landrovers. During the Hibiscus Festival.

Also, vakamalooma. What&#039;s the hurry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a Kia Viti m&#8217;self, I hafta to say the takes on the situation of Geoff@14, Nanu leva@18 and Manulevua@31 pretty much jibe with what I saw and understood of the place.</p>
<p>And both Nanu levu and Manulevu raised in different ways, the X-factor. It&#8217;s the Pacific, the blokes are all on yaquona while the women get a lot of stuff sorted out behind the scenes (I used to play scrabble with Adi Lady Mara and she&#8217;s about the only person I&#8217;d trust in the whole wide wild world to be a truly benevolent dictator. In fact I have little problem with a true global government, provided it&#8217;s helmed by a smart, tough, funny and worldly Fijian matriarch.)</p>
<p>Look at it this way. What happened in Fiji happened with many third world countries after being granted independence by carefree/bitter/confused/broke/scheming colonial powers.  And yet compared to say Africa, Fiji took 17 years for the first coup, the killing has barely reached double figures and very little blood has been deliberately split elsewhere (And what there was killed and spilled, has I bet led to many long circular yet sincere apologies over the yanqona bowl).</p>
<p>Which is not to say I&#8217;d enjoy being driven hooded in a Landrover to the QV Barracks for a &#8220;detailed appraisal of the situation&#8221; at the hands of some of Bainimarama’s more messianic junior officers and troops.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s bad and sad what&#8217;s happened to Fiji since May 1987. But it could be worse. At least a tough, proud, tribal and caste-ridden island warrior nation with a great sense of humour and certain savoir-faire/lazzie-faire attitudes towards sea-surrounded trade garrisons got to colonise Fiji before the French, Germans or Americans.</p>
<p>&#8220;Fiji’s Council of Chiefs is just one example of an extraordinary domestic power that could be realistically seen to pose a problem for any Westminster style democratic order.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;What bollocks. Fiji’s Great Council of Chiefs was created by the British Colonial regime, so as to present a thin veneer of democracy,&#8221;</p>
<p>Um MikeM, these two points do not contradict eachother.</p>
<p>&#8220;I understand a massive percentage of Fiji’s foreign exchange income is in the form of wages to Fijian soldiers on active service as UN Peacekeepers elsewhere in the world.<br />
What are the implications here?&#8221;</p>
<p>It means that in addition to Fijians being naturally brilliant small unit soldiers, the RFMF is now very skilled in running roadblocks, checkpoints and other ways of managing the flow of civilians.</p>
<p>A few closing observations.</p>
<p>Fiji is the only country ever to ask to join the British Empire. Got knocked back twice. Third time lucky.</p>
<p>Fijians are as not as good barroom fighters as you expect. The ratio of shouting and strutting to effective punches thrown is entertaining but not always effective. I&#8217;ve seen on Victoria Parade at different times, usually outside The Golden Dragon and across from the Olympic Baths, a wiry little West Indian guy take down to two massive Fijians, a USN SP defuse a looming bashing by smartly rapping a local in the nuts with a baton and a Fiji vs Tonga rugby match where the spectators thought they join the on pitch riot efficiently broken up by Fiji fijian and Indian police auxiliaries. I say efficiently because the riot rapidly dispersed and as we left the stadium, the Fijian and Tongan thumpers and thumpees were all mixed together, affably chatting away. A good old-fashioned punch up &#8211; followed by &#8216;grog&#8217;! And then another punch-up. In slow motion.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the phrase &#8220;coup d&#8217;etat&#8221; is really that applicable to Fiji anyway. Ruthless split-second timing to install a brand regime overnight is just not the Fijian way. Yes, they&#8217;ve done it but it keeps devolving down into<br />
everyone knows eachother so how can you be really ruthless when it&#8217;s your aunty&#8217;s cousin&#8217;s brother in law who forgot to call Inoke to leave the Raiwaqa service station open so the countercoup plotters could fill up their Landrovers. During the Hibiscus Festival.</p>
<p>Also, vakamalooma. What&#8217;s the hurry?</p>
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		<title>By: Manulevu</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160181</link>
		<dc:creator>Manulevu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160181</guid>
		<description>Reading this from Suva, I am quite convinced that democracy has not won. Nor are these latest developments – any of them – to the advantage of ordinary Fiji citizens. For the last two years there has been an fairly effective and reasonably benevolent dictatorship in place, whatever the legal fiction may have said. But life has gone on, except that, as always, coups are bad for the economy and ordinary people are suffering.

Now the rather convenient (to most people) legal figleaf has been stripped away. The decision in the Appeal Court, especially the refusal to allow a stay while the matter went to the Supreme Court, pushed Bainimarama into a corner. He was never likely to back down, though I thought he might force the matter to the Supreme Court first. So he’s abrogated the Constitution. What did the 3 judges think he was going to do??
Pablo suggests ‘my guess is that the commodore will wrap himself in the Fijian flag and ask what two aussi’s and a Hong Kong judge (appeal court) are doing ‘dictating’ to Fiji?’ Well, he hasn’t yet, but it’s sure to come.  The TV coverage on Thursday showed a very white court – all judges and most counsel. It didn’t look good.

Now Bainimarama’s reacted with the usual military lack of subtlety. While some radio stations are carrying ‘approved news’, others are refusing to, and the Fiji Times will presumably have even more rugby coverage than usual to cover for the gaps. Both sides, press and military, are spoiling for a fight, so goodness knows what the outcome will be. Probably a compromise in a few days – this is the Pacific.  In the meantime things are peaceful; contrary to SMH reports there were no roadblocks on the road into Suva this morning, and the rugby matches continue.

The main public response seems to be “Oh no, not again” – dread mostly that the economy will go down further, fear that there will be sanctions, that tourism will fall further.  Jobs, money for school fees, the difficulties of making ends meet – these are the dominant concerns, not elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this from Suva, I am quite convinced that democracy has not won. Nor are these latest developments – any of them – to the advantage of ordinary Fiji citizens. For the last two years there has been an fairly effective and reasonably benevolent dictatorship in place, whatever the legal fiction may have said. But life has gone on, except that, as always, coups are bad for the economy and ordinary people are suffering.</p>
<p>Now the rather convenient (to most people) legal figleaf has been stripped away. The decision in the Appeal Court, especially the refusal to allow a stay while the matter went to the Supreme Court, pushed Bainimarama into a corner. He was never likely to back down, though I thought he might force the matter to the Supreme Court first. So he’s abrogated the Constitution. What did the 3 judges think he was going to do??<br />
Pablo suggests ‘my guess is that the commodore will wrap himself in the Fijian flag and ask what two aussi’s and a Hong Kong judge (appeal court) are doing ‘dictating’ to Fiji?’ Well, he hasn’t yet, but it’s sure to come.  The TV coverage on Thursday showed a very white court – all judges and most counsel. It didn’t look good.</p>
<p>Now Bainimarama’s reacted with the usual military lack of subtlety. While some radio stations are carrying ‘approved news’, others are refusing to, and the Fiji Times will presumably have even more rugby coverage than usual to cover for the gaps. Both sides, press and military, are spoiling for a fight, so goodness knows what the outcome will be. Probably a compromise in a few days – this is the Pacific.  In the meantime things are peaceful; contrary to SMH reports there were no roadblocks on the road into Suva this morning, and the rugby matches continue.</p>
<p>The main public response seems to be “Oh no, not again” – dread mostly that the economy will go down further, fear that there will be sanctions, that tourism will fall further.  Jobs, money for school fees, the difficulties of making ends meet – these are the dominant concerns, not elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Mervyn Langford</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160180</link>
		<dc:creator>Mervyn Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 04:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160180</guid>
		<description>Hey, Jen and Pablo: &quot;Journalists have been told not to publish or broadcast stories that present the reinstatement of the military government in a negative light, and police censors have been installed in newsrooms across Suva.&quot; (ABC News - I&#039;d hook in the link if I knew how!)
This doesn&#039;t sound like traditional / indigenous style hierarchy - implicitly understood and maybe accepted by those who have grown up in this community system (in days gone by), but 21st century military dictatorship.
I understand a massive percentage of Fiji&#039;s foreign exchange income is in the form of wages to Fijian soldiers on active service as UN Peacekeepers elsewhere in the world.
What are the implications here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Jen and Pablo: &#8220;Journalists have been told not to publish or broadcast stories that present the reinstatement of the military government in a negative light, and police censors have been installed in newsrooms across Suva.&#8221; (ABC News &#8211; I&#8217;d hook in the link if I knew how!)<br />
This doesn&#8217;t sound like traditional / indigenous style hierarchy &#8211; implicitly understood and maybe accepted by those who have grown up in this community system (in days gone by), but 21st century military dictatorship.<br />
I understand a massive percentage of Fiji&#8217;s foreign exchange income is in the form of wages to Fijian soldiers on active service as UN Peacekeepers elsewhere in the world.<br />
What are the implications here?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeM</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160179</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 03:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160179</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Fiji’s Council of Chiefs is just one example of an extraordinary domestic power that could be realistically seen to pose a problem for any Westminster style democratic order.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What bollocks. Fiji&#039;s Great Council of Chiefs was created by the British Colonial regime, so as to present a thin veneer of democracy, http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/\papers23\paper2212.html.

Bainimarama&#039;s original stated reason for seizing power, reiterated on a number of occasions, that Qarase&#039;s government was corrupt and pursuing racist policies against the large minority of Indo-Fijians. A large part of the underlying problems is the Fijian system of &lt;a href=&quot;http://devnet.anu.edu.au/online%20versions%20pdfs/55/10Reddy55.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;land tenure&lt;/a&gt;, which substantially prevents Indo-Fijians from owning land.

I don&#039;t see all this discussed currently. On the other hand, despite Bainimarama&#039;s claimed altruistic motives, he does not seem to have actually done anything about the problem and he is now aggressively censoring the news media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Fiji’s Council of Chiefs is just one example of an extraordinary domestic power that could be realistically seen to pose a problem for any Westminster style democratic order.</p></blockquote>
<p>What bollocks. Fiji&#8217;s Great Council of Chiefs was created by the British Colonial regime, so as to present a thin veneer of democracy, <a href="http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/</a>\papers23\paper2212.html.</p>
<p>Bainimarama&#8217;s original stated reason for seizing power, reiterated on a number of occasions, that Qarase&#8217;s government was corrupt and pursuing racist policies against the large minority of Indo-Fijians. A large part of the underlying problems is the Fijian system of <a href="http://devnet.anu.edu.au/online%20versions%20pdfs/55/10Reddy55.pdf" rel="nofollow">land tenure</a>, which substantially prevents Indo-Fijians from owning land.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see all this discussed currently. On the other hand, despite Bainimarama&#8217;s claimed altruistic motives, he does not seem to have actually done anything about the problem and he is now aggressively censoring the news media.</p>
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		<title>By: joe2</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160178</link>
		<dc:creator>joe2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160178</guid>
		<description>&quot;We can all hope for something better to emerge particularly in our own backyard, but let’s accept the reality of the moment as something short of an ‘ideal’.&quot;

Do not speak too soon pablo. The local white people, we elected, plan to relegate democracy to the frontyard of &quot;Museum&quot; status.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/18/2495045.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We can all hope for something better to emerge particularly in our own backyard, but let’s accept the reality of the moment as something short of an ‘ideal’.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do not speak too soon pablo. The local white people, we elected, plan to relegate democracy to the frontyard of &#8220;Museum&#8221; status.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/18/2495045.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/18/2495045.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Don Wigan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160177</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Wigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160177</guid>
		<description>Well, Jenny, at least Lord Reith (once head honcho of the BBC)was on your side.  When asked what form of government he preferred (after earlier espressing scepticism about democracy, his reply was,

&quot;Despotism, tempered by assassination.&quot;

I suppose it might work, depending on the frequencies of the assassinations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Jenny, at least Lord Reith (once head honcho of the BBC)was on your side.  When asked what form of government he preferred (after earlier espressing scepticism about democracy, his reply was,</p>
<p>&#8220;Despotism, tempered by assassination.&#8221;</p>
<p>I suppose it might work, depending on the frequencies of the assassinations.</p>
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		<title>By: pablo</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160176</link>
		<dc:creator>pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/09/democracy-wins-in-fiji/#comment-160176</guid>
		<description>Mervyn Langford @ 25. You obviously have the democratic ideal ahead of all the rest but a dose of reality south pacific style needs attending. In supporting Jenny&#039;s position @ 12 I don&#039;t believe either of us liked what was happening. But the reality is that many of these island states simply don&#039;t share our view of the optimum way of dispensing power. Fiji&#039;s Council of Chiefs is just one example of an extraordinary domestic power that could be realistically seen to pose a problem for any Westminster style democratic order. In the same way the aristocratic kings and courtly favoured in Tonga aren&#039;t going to easily bow to a universal commoner franchise. The &#039;big men&#039; of PNG could be said to manipulate the voting populace in a form of commercial democracy. Even our own ATSIC with a short history of very low voter participation represents a form of failed democracy.
We can all hope for something better to emerge particularly in our own backyard, but let&#039;s accept the reality of the moment as something short of an &#039;ideal&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mervyn Langford @ 25. You obviously have the democratic ideal ahead of all the rest but a dose of reality south pacific style needs attending. In supporting Jenny&#8217;s position @ 12 I don&#8217;t believe either of us liked what was happening. But the reality is that many of these island states simply don&#8217;t share our view of the optimum way of dispensing power. Fiji&#8217;s Council of Chiefs is just one example of an extraordinary domestic power that could be realistically seen to pose a problem for any Westminster style democratic order. In the same way the aristocratic kings and courtly favoured in Tonga aren&#8217;t going to easily bow to a universal commoner franchise. The &#8216;big men&#8217; of PNG could be said to manipulate the voting populace in a form of commercial democracy. Even our own ATSIC with a short history of very low voter participation represents a form of failed democracy.<br />
We can all hope for something better to emerge particularly in our own backyard, but let&#8217;s accept the reality of the moment as something short of an &#8216;ideal&#8217;.</p>
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