Jumps racing – the horse-racing equivalent of the hurdles, is already banned in most Australian states on animal welfare grounds. Now Victoria has suspended jumps racing after a spate of accidents resulting in horses being put down, as reported in The Age yesterday. Frankly, if you’re at all squeamish, you might not want to look at the article, as it’s accompanied by a rather disturbing photo of the horse at the moment of impact.
Knowing how many horses are injured and subsequently put down in jumps racing, I’d never go and watch it myself. But how much of the objection to it is just squeamishness rather than animal welfare concerns? While a horse with a broken leg or neck clearly suffers considerable pain before it’s put down, it’s inevitable that a fraction of farm animals do the same in the meat production process, no matter how carefully a farmer looks after their herd – and they’re rarely euthanized as quickly as would occur on a racetrack.
The difference might be, of course, that animals suffering in the course of entertaining us is somehow less acceptable than animals suffering in the course of producing our food. But, while we can certainly argue the toss on the gastronomic qualities of vegetarian food, there’s ample evidence to show that vegetarians can (not all do, but then neither does everyone who eats a diet containing meat), gain all the nutrients required for good health without meat; furthermore, they’re almost certainly doing so in a considerably more environmentally sustainable manner. Why is the suffering of animals for entertainment unacceptable, while the suffering of animals for the just-as-optional meat industry OK?
I’m a carnivore myself, so I’m not speaking from any moral high ground here. But shouldn’t we all take a good hard look at the animal welfare consequences of our own actions before being too condemnatory of jumps racing?
I think the issue of jumps racing also needs to be looked at in the context of the high level of what’s known as “horse wastage”. The number of thoroughbred horses bred in Australia each year is far in excess of the number which will eventually go on to race with some success (in part because the really big bucks are associated with breeding horses rather than racing them); a large percentage of those which don’t make it to, or on, the track can’t be gainfuly employed in other occupations such as showjumping or riding schools, and those that can’t be gainfuly employed make for more expensive, land-intensive and labour-intensive pets than many people can afford.
This leas us to the question of what are the practical alternatives for those horses that are currently being raced over the jumps that are more humane and sustainable than both jumps racing and the knackery.
Well, why are we breeding so many horses in the first place? The jumps racing people are trying to claim moral high ground by saying they’re saving horses from the knackers, and giving them a good life, etc. but it’s all part of the racing industry which is predicated on massive waste in order to produce a few useful horses – most of whom will die or be retired to breed at an early age. Jumps racing is certainly brutal, but it’s a direct by-product of the racing industry as a whole. I think the racing industry is focusing on the jumps so that they can look like good people while their own cruelty goes ignored. I wonder what will actually happen when they let jumps racing go?
(I live near Warrnambool, so this is a very big topic here!)
Spot on people
Here’s a dump of the letter I just emailed to the AGE. don’t know if it will appear tomorrow. It was in response to this article.
Robert, here was me thinking you were just another shaved monkey. What species are you? Carnivores eat primarily meat, monkeys eat mostly vegetables and are mostly omnivores (like pigs and bears).
I think killing horses for fun is bad, but it’s nowhere near the industrialised cruelty in the meat industry. We accept a huge degree of unnecessary pain and suffering in the interests of higher profits and about the only mitigating claim is that we’re not as bad as the US or the kosher/halal killers. Studies repeatedly show that we could deal with meat animals more kindly but our religion prevents that happening (viz: it would cost money). The music video linked will not please the squeamish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYpqRg6fMJg but it was shot in a real abattoir with no special effects. Yup, it’s gruesome. deal.
Moz, one of the points Lilacsgil, Paul and I were trying to make that it isn’t just the jumps that are killing performance horses – they get slaughtered in their thousands because of “wastage” in the industry in general. It’s not eithr/or.
In partial defence of meat producers, speaking as the son of a farmer (mixed cropper, beef, sheep), the inhumane losses that my family fails to manage appropriately are virtually non-existent.
There are three primary causes of death that we deal with: cartage, fly strike, and predator attack.
Cartage seems like the worst of them to me, because it’s so manageable, it’s very much dependant on the contractor, we don’t use some drivers because they don’t take care of animal welfare, but even with the bad ones I think a death a year would be high.
Fly-strike on the merinos essentially never happens without substantial intervention beforehand, and a quick bullet in extremis (definitely less than one mortality a year). BTW, fly-strike is far crueller than mulesing.
Foxes and dogs are the worst, half a dozen or more lambs a year. Alpacas have been the best solution so far.
Of course, if you eat supermarket chicken (like I do, well Lilydale brand at least), you do have to maintain some hypocritical cognitive dissonance there.
If Victoria can’t even ban duck hunting, you reckon we care about farm animals?
Thanks for the information Robert Merkel. It is with some regret that those who object to brutalising animals, now appear to be the lepers -”veggies” or “animal libbers” shout those with vested interests as they throw excrement at their opponents.
Currently Australia’s used up greyhounds are shipped off to Asia to a fate unknown and we are aware, that dogs in Asia are skinned alive. The puppy trade is flourishing too and they also are shipped to Asia. The bitches are kept constantly pregnant and incarcerated.
I had hoped that the 21st century would have brought forth an enlightened homo sapien who would realise that humans have no right to brutalise other species but brutalise they do.
In the livestock industry, ovarectomies are performed on cattle without the benefit of an anaesthetic. Sheep, battery hens and pigs must endure similar gross surgical procedures without painkillers whilst pigs and hens are incarcerated in cages, never to see daylight.
Factory farming is an abomination; the industry is powerful and any feral animal which gets in the way dies an agonising death from the heinous 1080 bait, including secondary targets of native species. Who would do this to a family pet except the Cruella De Villes in this “civilised” society?
Nearly 70 percent of all antibiotics in Australia are force-fed to livestock and only last week, I read of a guy who was infected in hospital with a super bug and had to have his leg amputated.
In 2004, 6 million animals entered Australia’s vivisection labs – that’s twice as many as Britain. All for the “good” of humanity!
The chemical giants are making a killing (pun intended) with massive sales of Tamiflu and surgical masks to protect from swine flu but the animals are fighting back. Enter a pandemic – not if but when? I sincerely trust what goes ’round comes ’round! Only then will we realise that money can’t be eaten!
The jumps are for the high jump.
Don’t mind the gallops and trots, but don’t think the rate of horse death and injury at the jumps is acceptable.
Not sure what the point is. Some guy ate a chook and ended up loosing his leg?
huh?
I think Emily is trying to make some connection between animals being fed anti-biotics and the growth of anti-biotic resistant bugs in hospitals.
Maybe the guy had his leg off in a Vet Clinic.
Is Emily on her list?
wilful, it’s once they reach the killing grounds that a lot of the stupidity occurs. I’ve had the experience of working in one (factory automation stuff) and it pained me somewhat that live, conscious animals got so far down the line. Much further than they should. At that point I became painfully aware that no matter how ugly our kills on the farm were, we just weren’t in the same league as the local abattoir. I eat mostly road kill these days on the basis that I didn’t cause it to be killed, but have no particular ethical issues with raising my own and killing it myself.
Back on topic, the whole killing horses (and dogs) for fun industry is not one I accept. I’d be somewhat impressed with a philosophy paper that started from “horses are sentient and all pain counts” to rigorously end up with “and thus horse racing is acceptable”. Admittedly, mainly as an intellectual exercise because I don’t think it can be done. Hearing people say “I love horses” and “I love horse racing” just seems like cognitive dissonance, because they’re not even in the same mindset as “I love cute fluffy lambs” and “mmmm, bbq”, more like “I love kids, that’s why I became a priest”.
Yeah, the arsehole in the article I linked too said “I love horses!” in the same breath as he’d said he’d start shooting as soon as a ban came into effect and cut the heads off and send them to Rob Hulls and a few others. Talk about cognitive dissonance.
Emily, you might be heartened to know the folks on Cyberhorse – with a few exceptions, one is Mr. I love Horses’ personal acquaintance – are pretty much in favour of a ban and they’re pretty much, how you say, hard-bitten and unsentimental rural folk mostly.
“…in the same breath as he’d said he’d start shooting as soon as a ban came into effect and cut the heads off and send them to Rob Hulls and a few others.”
Oh and don’t forget he mentioned those bloody “greenies”, as well. There at it again!
There’d be more cats and dogs put down each year than horses.
I frequent a thoroughbred racing forum and most of the commenters are against jumps racing, for a variety of reasons. Personally I think it needs to go. But there are issues which need sorting and some quite tricky questions. I question the idea that there’s thousands of failed racehorses being destroyed. Where can we find accurate figures? How does it compare with other horse sports? How does it compare to ‘wastage’ when it comes to cats and dogs? I don’t want to see this argument being used to demonise horseracing. Many people involved in it ensure their horses end up in good homes and many ex-racehorses go on to other careers. Many people in the horseracing industry are worried that this will be used to put pressure on banning all horseracing. As someone who’s worked in racing stables ( and ridden in an amateur ‘chase) I’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to horse welfare. But I’ve seen a lot more good that anything else. I think there needs to be a tigtening of laws in this area. Ban slaughter and make euthanasia cheap. Vets charge about $200 to put a horse down humanely, btw.
There’s a question as to why so many horses fall and are killed. My understanding is that the per capita death rate in SA, the only other state that still has jumping races, is much lower. People are surmising that that’s because the jumps are far higher which means horses respect the jumps more, have to slow down to clear them and thus fall far less often. Anecdotally, I understand that a large percentage of falls and deaths occur at the last juump in a race, which is when the horses are sprinting home and are more likely to make a mistake. Many deaths would be prevented by simply removing that last jump.
Horses In Australia aren’t properly bred to be steeplechasers. You need slower horses with heavier bone than we breed. Go to jumps races in Europe and you’ll see much heavier horses, racing more slowly, jumping much larger jumps and having fewer falls. Here the horses are failed flat horses. I’ve sen a few (Toulouse Lautrec and a very well bred Danehill horse come to mind) that were accidents waiting to happen. But they won races because the jumps were too low and they didn’t have to jump properly.
As for what often happens to jumps horses now, what’s being mooted is that races called ‘jumpers’ flats’ are programmed. These are flat races over 3000m and further. It would suit them perfectly. Londregan is a moron and I don’t think anyone is taking him seriously.
Jumps racing should be banned on animal welfare grounds. It is simply setting horses up to fall spectacularly disastrously and fatally. It cannot be made in any way safe to force a horse at speed to take on a hurdle in a field of others doing likewise. I’m surprised there are not more injuries and deaths of jockeys too. (X country is different as it is more controlled as is show jumping)
There is a stupendous surfeit of young thoroughbreds in this country and many of 90% especially the young ones, who never make it to the track will end up on the dinner plates of Japan, this unfortunately is a fact.
I have no problem in farming animals in healthy environments for food. (Obviously I don’t consider feedlots healthy environments). I don’t have a problem with horses being butchered and shipped to Japan if the alternative is neglect as I would rather see an animal humanely euthanased than see one who has left to starve to death in a paddock. But jumps racing is an abomination. There is a very good reason why it is banned in most states. It is completely wicked.
Fine @15 – The Warrnambool race is the longest in the world, and has the most fences. So yes, you have picked a major reason why more horses die here.
Caroline @16 – The dinner plates of…Japan? Horse isn’t part of Japanese cuisine at all.
Lilacsigil, By here I meant Australia, not Warrnambool. And I don’t think it’s nearly the longest race in the world.
fine – I reckon there is no real evidence base to work from.
The number of pet or pony club horses that are left either to starve or founder, both crueler in my mind than being shot after a fall, must be enormous just from my observations driving around.
I don’t know anything about the equestrian scene but I find it hard to imagine there are no injuries and falls or “wastage” there at all
Pardon my ignorance. This is a sincere question. Why do they put down horses that have broken legs? Our dog was hit by a car, and had to have a rear leg amputated. He was fine.
Fine @18 – Warrnambool does claim to have the race with the most jumps (and the longest course) in the world. I haven’t gone to confirm that personally, and packing more jumps into a longer course defeats the purpose of your jumpers’ flats proposal.
Rx@20: they’re put down because they can’t race any more. I suspect your dog doesn’t run too fast with only 3 legs. There’s sod all demand for horses as pets, most people want them to ride or pull things. Why bother feeding something that’s no use any more?
“Basashi is an essential part of Japanese cuisine and it is rare for an izakaya not to offer it….” says Wikipedia lilacsigil.
Could you elaborate on this interesting dietary preference, moz?
I’ve never been a huge fan of road kill myself, but perhaps if it were incorporated into a nice Thai green curry …
Moz @22, I need to correct you. That’s simply wrong. The anatomy of a horse is completely different than that of a dog. They literally can’t support their bodyweight on three legs. Prosthetic legs don’t work either. Sesamoid breaks are the most catastrophic. The sesamoid bone is just above the hoof. Horses have very little blood flow to that area of the leg which means it’s incredibly difficult for it to heal. Attempts often fail and cause the horse a great deal of pain and trauma. You may want to read about Barabaro, who won the Kentucky Derby a couple of years ago and then broke his leg the next start. He was kept alive for almost a year, but the leg never healed properly and he ended up being put down because of laminitis, a really painful hoof ailment which is often a side effect of a broken sesamoid.
Lilacsigil, a jumper’s flat is just that – a flat race without jumps over a distance, which I stated in my original comment. The Grand Annual is 5500m. In Europe that’s quite an ordinary distance and there’s nothing about galloping 5500m for a horse which is particularly onerous if they’re fit. The Grand National In England is 4 1/2 miles. That’s 7200m and I don’t even know that’s the longest race. And it has many more jumps. You may want to do some research and think a bit more before you make silly statements.
Paulus, when I’m cycle touring I fairly frequently see fresh road kill. If I feel like it I’ll stop. This isn’t something that will work as well for motorists because they’re going faster and can’t smell the roadside as well, but it works for me. I also see fruit trees and other goodies, and from a recent experience in a car I’m more likely to see fruit than many other people. So it’s partly learning to keep an eye out.
But yeah, fresh road kill that’s not pounded flat or splattered makes a tasty snack. Carve off the bits you want, cook to taste and enjoy. Also leads to interesting meetings… I’ve had a carload of locals pull over and explain that whitefellas like me are not legally allowed to butcher and eat kangaroos like the one I was chewing on, so they kindly offered to help eat the evidence
Fine@above, I didn’t know that. Wow, horses are even more fragile than I thought.
moz – and does most of it “taste like chicken”?
Moz, roadkill sounds like a really ethical way to go. Re your comments on horses. Yes, they are fragile. One of the things which frustrates racehorse people is that there’s so little knowledge about horses in the general community these days. So people assume stuff which is simply wrong. Horses aint big dogs. Sometimes the critics of horseracing are arguing from a position where they don’t know much about horses and they get it wrong. Animal welfare groups argued that jumps be lowered, which they were. But, perhaps counterintuitively, they make the problem worse. I don’t support jumps races. Not because I think there’s anything inherently wrong with them, but because it seems we just can’t get the policies right for them.
Horses are very fragile and as large prey animals, can’t cope with broken legs as Fine explained. The fact that non-racing horses and dogs and cats also suffer from neglect is no excuse for continuing another, unrelated practice that is clearly abusive. A strong anti-breeding program is what is needed. ZPG for animals if you will. If the economy does really, really tank, I’d love to see a year’s moratorium on all foals, puppies and kittens. Won’t happen, of course.
I predict that in no way will this thread be filled with stereotyping or angry accusations of evil.
Is that sarcasm? If so, I’d say the statement is self-fulfilling.
Fine will be able to correct me but I think the figures for thoroughbreds go something like: 10-20% of all thoroughbreds bred for racing make it to the track and about 5% of those have any measure of success. But success is no assurance of a happy relaxed life after racing. 10-20% scaling back to 5% make for pretty long odds and IMO it presents a real problem with what to do with the majority who do not make the cut. There doesn’t seem to be any solution other than to turn them into some other ‘product’. Nor does there seem to be any attempt in the racing industry to address this issue other than to hope for the best/turn a blind eye. There is a limit to how many thoroughbreds can be on-sold for other equestrian pursuits, or used to go on and breed more. Clearly ‘jumps’ racing is one area where a big, failed galloper can be used or wasted.
Its interesting to hear Fine that the European steeplechaser is a bigger, stronger, slower animal who is less prone to coming a cropper.
I remember being heartened to hear that the steeplechase had been banned many years ago and thought it was a good sign of our increasing civilisation. However as I have only latterly discovered banned in NSW, not banned everywhere.
Without the racing industry there would be no reason to breed thoroughbreds, but to my way of looking at the life of a horse its a pretty unhappy one. From the minute they go into the barn for yearling prep till the time they are popped out the other end its a stressful, unnatural way for a horse to spend its life.
Men+money+animals=cruelty.
From what little I know of you Fine, I would say that you are an exception to the rule.
No discussion like this is complete without some brief allusion to Peter Singer’s Animal Liberation. Every well-rounded young man and woman should read this Australian classic…or at least “All Animals Are Equal“.
Would you do a particular action to an orphaned human with a severe and irreversible mental disability? If not, don’t do it to a sentient nonhuman.
In response to Rob’s original question:
A fair question in philosophy class, and also worth discussing in a more general context, but I don’t think that relevant to the stand alone question of whether jumps racing should be banned in Victoria.
You could also ask whether we really should complain about whaling or seal hunting whilst being largely oblivous to the massive slaugter of kangaroos or the much larger suffering (esp when measured over their entire lifespan rather than the last hour or so) inflicted on pigs, intensively ‘farmed’ cattle, etc. It’s fair enough to point out the inconsistency, but no reason to stop pushing for an end to whaling.
It’s always much easier to support bringing an end to something that you have no involvement in yourself. It is reasonable to point out the inconsistency (or hypocrisy, if one wishes to sound a bit harsher), but that’s not enough reason to fail to act.
I think jumps racing should be banned because it clearly leads to a greater number of horse deaths than other racing. Even accepting that it’s OK to use horses as entertainment and income /employment generation through the racing industry – which the majority of our society appears to – jumps racing does not add anything of particular benefit whilst significantly increasing the danger to the horse.
Saying that jumps racing provides a way to stop slow horses being sent to the knackery is a pretty lame justification. You may as well say we should legalise dog fighting, because it would be a way of keeping dogs alive that might otherwise be put down. There are certainly enough sickos around who would pay money to watch that sort of thing.
Of course, there’s also more public support for stopping jumps racing because few people watch it, are involved in or feel a connection to it. Same reason why most people support ending whaling, but would laugh in your face if you suggested stopping pigs being crowded into pens their whole life – let alone stopping them being slaughtered for meat when people can live perfectly well without it.
One point of difference in the cattle/hogs-same as- whales argument is that whales are rare, threatened, and more readily subject to extinction, whereas cattle, hogs, and horses are likely to be with us for a good long while no matter what we do. This is of course quite separate from the issue of cruelty, which naturally has its own imperatives.
Here’s a question I have for those who know horses well (since I’m ignorant about them myself): I get the impression — tho’ I could easily be wrong– that in terms of their emotional life, many horses rather enjoy the sense of importance they get from co-operating with humans in sport and war (drudge-labor I suppose is a different matter). Is that true? And if it is, can it be reasonably factored into the risk/reward equation of horses in sport, from the horse’s POV? I have no strong opinions on the thing, just curious what horse-lovers think about the matter.
I breed horses, but not thoroughbreds, but I’ll have a go anyway, j_p_z
I don’t know if you’ve ever read anything by Dick Francis. He’s an ex jumps jockey turned detective writer, whose books are usually set in a racing context. It is quite clear that he believes the horses enjoy what they’re doing. Basically, despite whips and other ‘persuasions’, it’s very hard to get a horse to run fast if it doesn’t want to.
As with all arguments about animal welfare, I’m always interested in what the alternative is. Would the animal prefer to be alive, well looked after and doing something that it enjoys, even if its death is nasty? (We let humans do a lot of dangerous things and then, when they die doing them, say ‘At least he died doing something he loved’ – is that a double standard?) Or not to exist at all?
Anything we do in this field will have moral inconsistencies, life being like that, so I recognise that to take the ‘at least the animal has a life’ argument to the extreme is also ridiculous.
As a horse breeder, I have had to face putting horses down rather than have them suffer. It’s never easy. I would suggest it’s not easy for trainers, either, however money motivated they are. They wouldn’t be in it if they didn’t love horses.
The reason for the difference in attitude is twofold. Firstly, you can empathise with a horse, it’s a lot harder to empathise with a chook. Secondly, the death of the horse appeared in the newspaper, and with a gruesome photograph; the deaths of chooks aren’t newsworthy, and they certainly aren’t photographed much – out of sight, out of mind.
Our treatment of all animals needs to be vastly improved.
The conditions of cattle, pigs, chickens and so on are necessary because we in Australia eat 100+kg of meat and fish annually, and still have plenty left over for export. Just as you can’t have $5 t-shirts without Chinese factory workers earning $150 a month and being fined for being out of dormitories after curfew, so too you just can’t grow, slaughter and process that many beasts without packing them in cages.
So if you don’t like that, eat less or no meat.
If you want racehorses, then a substantial portion of them will end up at the knacker’s yard. Just as we need hundreds of athletes at the AIS and thousands across the country to get a dozen gold medals, so too do we need thousands of horses bred to make a few winners.
In the old days old and even some injured racehorses could go to farms and be used as transport. But nowadays we don’t do that, we have tractors instead. So it’s racing, breeding or the knackers for horses, and that’s that. If we don’t want them killed, then either we can abolish horse-racing, or we can find alternate employment for horses. With oil on its way out, maybe we’ll need them…
“One point of difference in the cattle/hogs-same as- whales argument is that whales are rare, threatened, and more readily subject to extinction, whereas cattle, hogs, and horses are likely to be with us for a good long while no matter what we do. This is of course quite separate from the issue of cruelty, which naturally has its own imperatives.”
That’s partly true, but not every species of whale is endangered, which is an argument the Japanese have been trying to make of late – I think, they overstate the case a lot but it is true that some species have become more common. While people may argue about the quantum, at least some species of whale could be ‘harvested’ at a sustainable level.
I am 110% opposed to whaling, I’m just pointing out that arguing solely on an environmental line isn’t always going to be sufficient. And that is just the biodiversity aspect of the environmental argument – there is also the massive greenhouse and other environmental impacts of livestock which are much greater than for whaling.
Kiashu: free-range chicken isn’t outrageously expensive and is widely available, nor is grass-fed beef.
Free-range pork products are a bit harder to get.
it’s very hard to get a horse to run fast if it doesn’t want to.
I think this is a bit of a questionable statement given that a horse is by nature hard wired for flight. Getting a horse to run fast enough to win a race in a competitive field might be more difficult, but there is generally never a problem getting a horse to run (away). I think its the much mistreated mule who is far more inclined to literally sit down on the job and refuse to budge or the bored, recalcitrant pony who is fed up with being treated like a toy who develops an understandable, stubborn streak.
A lovingly cared for and respected, confident horse that is not continually put into what it considers a stressful situation where its natural extinct is denied, (i.e, boxed in a stall where flight is impossible or isolated from the herd which to a herd animal usually means death) who has a solid bond, generally with one person, can enjoy the kinds of ego based competitions that humans put them through. But its a big stretch to presume all horses enjoy the competitive activities they are forced to endure with humans. It all depends on the way the horse is treated and its relative intelligence, which seems to vary widely from horse to horse, breed to breed.
Horses are by nature gentle, curious and flighty. When they surrender to our will, which they do every time they allow themselves to be caught, they generally want, as we do, a happy outcome and will try to do what they can to achieve this. They have long memories and will respond in the same manner to which they have been treated. Horses judge us on our actions and our emotions. If we’re calm and happy, they’re clam and happy, if we’re angry, they’re terrified if we’re terrified, they’re terrified.
FHOTD blog weighs in – and how!
Robert Merkel: certification standards in Australia leave a lot to be desired, as anyone who cares to investigate the matter soon finds out. A simple label’s no guarantee of humane treatment of animals.
What it comes down to is that if you want to eat 100+kg of meat and fish annually, they will be treated inhumanely, because it’s impossible to get that much meat and fish without inhumane and wasteful processes.
You could eat just 10kg or so of meat and fish annually and the beasts still be treated inhumanely, but if everyone consumes less, then the high-volume farms and abbattoirs just won’t be profitable, whereas the small mixed farm can be profitable.
I don’t want organic free-range carbon neutral fair trade kosher halal biodynamic or any of that crap as labels. I want all food I buy to be grown without chemicals, humanely, with the workers receiving a decent living wage, and so on.
Imagine that we lived in the US in the 1850s, someone might suggest a “produced with non-slave labour.” I wouldn’t look for that label, either. I’d want every farm labourer to be free.
Robert M,
I’ve been interested to see how rapidly the proportion of non-battery eggs has increased, in our local supermarket. Over the last three years or so. Customers are clearly changing our buying habits and hence the stocking by the manager.
[They work OK without batteries, they're all solar-powered
]
A modest proposal – why don’t we send the surplus-to-requirements former AIS athletes to the knackery?
It’s a lot administratively simpler than making them pay HECS
Ambigulous@43: I wonder what fraction of the eggs labelled as free range actually are… I recall reading one investigation showed that the eggs sold as free range were significantly more than the total of free range eggs produced. Haven’t chased it up, don’t eat eggs.
Caroline – are you suggesting that horses don’t enjoy running? Just because fright = flight does not mean that running = fright.
Mine enjoy a good gallop and that’s without any external stimulus! Just the joy of kicking up their heels.
I don’t ride myself, but there’s little doubt that horses enjoy going for rides in much the same way dogs like going for walks. There’s also little doubt that they enjoy ‘work’ – cattle herding, endurance riding, etc. The signs of a happy contented horse versus a frightened or indifferent one are easy to pick.
Nature and the natural life isn’t all its cracked up to be. Many animals could choose a natural life quite easily (my horses escape frequently but always come straight home, which makes the escaping part a bit superfluous, I feel) but few do, just as few humans voluntarily return to the wild.
Domestication has its benefits as well as its downsides!
mehitabel, people enjoy running too. A good 5% of them run for fun and going on 0.0000000001% are professional athletes who run for a living. Of course, if we killed the ones who don’t make it as professional athletes the proportion would rise quite fast. That doesn’t seem to be a good justification for the latter course to me.
Moz, what are you on about? Someone asked previously if horses enjoyed working with humans and I’m just answering the question.
To leap from that to an (implied) suggestion that I’m all for slaughtering horses is a big jump indeed!
But, as I said, we recognise that humans enjoy doing things which have the potential to kill them. They’re fully aware of all the risks but still undertake the activities.
I know we can’t enter into a horse’s thoughts (although I understand they don’t have many) and thus can’t work out if they feel the same (they wouldn’t have the conceptual capacity to, I suppose!).
I would point out that some of the horses in the race in question finished the race without riders. In other words, they could have stopped running but chose to go on – which suggests not only enjoyment but some understanding of what the aim of the race.
All that said, I’m not making a judgement about jump racing (plenty of other people willing to do so) but, as a horsebreeder (again, I repeat, not of thoroughbreds) offering some insight into horses as requested.
…then there is bird flu and swine flu coming from the way we keep animals to feed our insatiabley gluttonous ways!
mehitabel.
No, not at all. Running is their main thing. Watching foals discover they can run is a joy to behold–they are clearly over the moon about this extraordinary gift.
I haven’t suggested either that horses are better off in the wild but that’s not to say we should therefore deny them their natures –which in the main is what we do.
While not an advocate of Monty Roberts, after almost 35 years of having horses
inrun my life, I am a firm believer in his non-violent approach and that the best way to get a horse to do what you want it to do is through it wanting to do it, not through it being forced, with threats of pain or punishment when it can’t understand WTF you are trying to make it do. The non-violent approach is a slower road, but you end up with a happier more compliant beast who when he has no reason to fear you all the time is a safer and more dependable animal.Helen, I’m not sure that link is working but I went along to Fugly’s anyway. Yeah good post, and good point. He didn’t do himself any favours did he? Looks like a real charmer. Pity his poor horses. Don’t suppose ‘jumps’ racing is jam-packed full of similar ‘cowboys’?
mehitabel, what I mean is that it’s a huge stretch from “horses like running” to “selectively breeding horses for racing knowing that at every stage of the process huge numbers of horses will be injured and killed”. Would we do that to people?
Yes, some of those horses who are lucky enough not to be injured will enjoy the races. Does that mean that we’re justified in breeding ten or a hundred times that many race horses and accepting the inevitable trail of injuries? If you’re making a utilitarian argument, surely we’d be better off spending those resources on caring for wild horses?
Also, horses are pack animals. Of course they’ll follow the bunch… when they’re scared they stick together. So your argument they could equally be terrified. Your “they like running” would be a lot more credible if riderless horses were prone to changing direction on the track.
Concisely: does the limited pleasure in running justify the cruelty in the industry?
Moz, we do many things to animals for their own good and/or our convenience (desexing etc) that we don’t do to people, so that in itself isn’t argument. I know that isn’t precisely the point your making, but I’m always suspicious of this sort of argument. Horses/dogs etc aren’t people and it’s bad for them to act as if they are.
People are slinging around the idea that there are thousands of horses killed or injured every year. But are there? I actually have no idea what the figures are and would be really interested in seeing some reliable stats. I know a number are killed every year. I also know that a number go onto successful career changes as riding/show/endurance/showjumping/3 day event/drssage/stock/police/nanny horses. As well as the thousands that are retired to stud every year and the ones who end up as paddock ornaments. I know from my experience from part owning racehorses that when they were retired it was very easy to find good homes for them. This doesn’t happen to every horse, of course. My experience is that one of the main predictors of where they’ll end up is whether the horse is well liked or not. A good temperament is very important. But, the racing industry needs to put plans in place to ensure that all horses end up in a good place, except for those who are absolutely impossible to place.
Do horses enjoy racing? Some do, some don’t. Thoroughbreds have been selectively bred for 300 years to run really fast, but a lot of them never understand that the idea is to win. That’s a human concept after all. Others are absolutely determined to win at all costs. They’re the really good racehorses. I once talked to a jockey about a great horse he rode in most of the horse’s races. The horse was Better Loosen Up who was renowned for only winning by a literal nose. The jockey reckoned the horse knew precisely where the winning post was and would just toy with his rivals til they got to the line. Then the horse would stretch his neck and whack his nose down on the line, so he won. The jockey insisted it was a game the horse enjoyed playing.
As to actual figures of horses killed in Australia, the best figures I could find suggest around 10,000 annually [source], and also says,
“In Australia, the evidence is that failed/retired racehorses and broodmares are making up at least 60% of the [horse meat] industry.[...] A sad truth about the racing industry and one never advertised is that worldwide, some 30% of horses bred never even start in a race due to injury or lack of ability. [...] 40% of 1804 racehorses aged 2-5 years and actively in work and racing over a season earned no money at all, while the earnings of 87% of them were insufficient to cover training costs. But while ever unwanted horses of any breed or type continue to be bred, slaughter and the horsemeat trade will remain options for their disposal, a profitable form of convenience euthanasia.”
An animal liberation site claims 18,000 horses and 20,000 greyhounds annually [source], but my experience with these kind of advocate sites is that they exaggerate; they’re probably including horses retired in paddocks put down as they grow old and get cancer etc.
The dogs business is far nastier than the horse business, though. Unwanted greyhounds are exported for meat, some exported alive, and even, it seems, may be skinned alive during slaughtering. The greyhound industry acknowledges that they just don’t know what happens to the animals once exported [source], so numbers and their fates are even harder to determine than for horses. However, the industry site notes that 25% of all greyhounds bred for racing never race; a similar proportion to horses noted above.
It’s common sense, really – if you breed beasts for competitive speed, most of them will be no use to you, and will need alternative employment. If there is no alternative employment, they’ll be put down.
4 jumps horses in 4 days have been put down, and we’re shocked and horrified. But even if it continued at that rate, that’s 365 horses a year put down on the track – compared to the 6,000 or so horses a year put down off the track because they’re slow, injured, sick, etc.
We shouldn’t kid ourselves. We’re not breeding and keeping race horses for their sake, anymore than we keep chooks in batteries for their own sake. We’re doing it for ourselves. We want a certain kind of lifestyle – eating 100+kg of meat and fish a year, watching animals race – and that lifestyle requires that some animals live badly, and most die at our hands.
I think perhaps everyone should visit an abbattoir at least once in their lives, and an abbattoir or farm and kill an animal at least once. If you don’t have the guts to do that, become a vegetarian. I’ve killed animals and it’s not pleasant but I don’t see it as morally wrong. They’re animals.
However, bad treatment of animals degrades us. So this puts limits on how much meat we can eat (if we want 100+kg, we have to mistreat the animals), what we can enjoy as sports (betting on the dishlickers is probably out entirely, as is recreational hunting), and so on.
Fine, aside from knowing first hand of at least one local but not necessarily disreputable stud, that annually sends a truckload of its unsaleable yearlings to the doggers, it is indeed very difficult to find any reliable stats about what proportion of horses bred for racing end up as ‘food’. Its a subject that nobody in the industry wants to talk about.
I met Makybe Diva last year and then thought I better see what all the fuss was about, so watched her three race wins on youtube. She too is a very smart horse who seemed to both enjoy the competition and also have a strategy for winning. In each of her winning Melbourne cup runs, she stays back in the field and doesn’t look as though she’s anything special reserving her energy until she gets a chance and then she’s like a locomotive. She is a lovely mare and obviously intelligent–she pays an interest in what’s going on around her.
‘Intelligence’ in thoroughbreds seems pretty rare, and I wonder about the dumbing down aspect of yearling prep, at a time in their lives when their cognitive faculties should be being stretched, not limited to four walls, maybe a bit of a supervised frolic in a holding yard and twenty minutes on a walker, day in day out. They would come into the barn, alert and alive, but by the end of five weeks or so of this tedious regimen, they looked decidedly depressed and disinterested.
I think your completely right about the yearling regimen, Caroline. I’m sure it’s much better for them in a paddock with their mates, competing with each and being physically and mentally stimulated. Sadly, yearling sale buyers seem to want big, shiny yearlings, who often deflate once they get home and the steroids leave their systems.
Boss, the Diva’s jockey always said she knew how to win her races. You’re so lucky meeting her.
And the subject of ‘wastage’ is one that the industry is going to have to deal with, or government will deal with it for them.
Merkel as usual you don’t know what you are talking about. Knackeries are set up to kill intelligent, well bred, likable animals like horses – not to deal with “elite” atheletes.
Just simply trucking atheletes is a problem in itself. Although they will happily get on a plane if there is a first class seat they don’t have to pay for themselves, unless there are copious amounts of alcohol they tend to whine and panic. Even then titrating to the right amount of alcohol is a precise art of which much research needs to be undertaken to convert to a science. Too much of the grog will make them annoy humans and soil themselves.
Also – have you ever tried to clean an athelete for consumption? Impossible. Years of never having to fend for themselves and being kept in a taxpayer funded feedlot at AIS where they don’t have to cook, wash or think ruins any tender bits. They might, at a pinch, be suitable for soup at a kitchen for homeless financial advisors but I doubt it.
Moz – ‘If you’re making a utilitarian argument, surely we’d be better off spending those resources on caring for wild horses?’
Er – absolutely not. Wild horses are feral animals. Unless by caring for them you mean humane destruction.
Caroline – you’re right, of course. Some horses love racing, some don’t; some love working with humans, some would prefer you left them alone (disappointingly, sometimes nothing to do with how you treat them!).
As I said, my runaways always come home, so I’m doing something right.
The same kinds of qualifiers should be used with any field of human endeavour – so yes, there are some appalling horse breeders/trainers etc and some who have the absolute best interests of their horses at heart.
I wouldn’t eat’em, FX. Too many drugs in the system.
The whole topic makes me very sad. Even if it was (were?) footballers, if the captive bolt doesn’t get them properly before they get hung upside down, no one deserves that.
mehitabel, at the risk of becoming your google bitch, the utilitarian argument is “how much pleasure can we create with the available resources”. I cannot believe that horse racing is the answer.
Since you ask, yes, I do believe that the appropriate form of care for exotic pest species is humane destruction. With limited exceptions for things like guide dogs. Failing that, require them all to be desexed as early as possible so that within a lifetime we have none. Or as close to that as we can get with the resources available. No practical way to carefully catch and euthanise every single rabbit, just use what works.
Hey moz, you linked the censored version of the Skeptics clip.
Here is the visceral one:
I’m not sure what you’re proposing here, Moz. All non-native animals euthanised except guide dogs?
So, Moz, your basic premise is that all exploitation by humans of animals (except guide dogs) is cruel so therefore we should euthanise all non native animals to be kind to them?
Perhaps the animals concerned might prefer to live and be exploited.
Given that most domesticated animals now have no surviving populations in the wild (other than feral ones) you are in fact advocating the extinction of entire species.
You’re starting to make a few deaths in jump racing seem mild by comparison.
AS AN AVID SUPPORTER OF JUMP RACING ,I FEEL I SHOULD COMMENT.IF YOU THINK THE GRAND ANNUAL IS A LONG RACE YOU ARE MISTAKEN.ENGLANDS NATIO NAL HUNT SEASON RUN NOVICE CHASES OVER THREE MILE,FOUR FURLONGS DAILY.IN THE HEIGHT OF WINTER FULL RACE CARDS ARE JUMP RACES.I HAVE EVEN WITTNESSED A 3 MILE SET WEIGHTS HURDLE FOR 3YEAR OLD FILLYS.THE ONLY THING WARNAMBOOL CAN LAY CLAIM TO IS MOST FENCES 33 IN THE WORLD.THE ENGLISH NATIONAL HAS 30,CHELTNAM GOLD CUP 24,INCIDENTLY,CHELTNAM RUN THEIR CARNIVAL IN MARCH ,4DAYS 8RACES A DAY, ALL JUMP RACES OVER THE SAME FENCES THAT WERE THERE 100 YEARS AGO,REAL FENCES.THIS BRINGS ME TO MY POINT.AUSTRALIAN JUMPS RACING(IN ITS CURRENT FORM)SHOULD BE ABBANDONNED.IN TASMANIA,WE WERE STILL JUMPING LIVE FENCES,ONLY LOSING 2HORSES IN 10 YEARS.I HAVE BEEN TO WARNAMBOOL MANY TIMES,I SEEN A GRAND ANNUALL CARNIVAL WITHOUT ONE FALL.THIS WAS OVER THE OLD FENCES,SINCE THEN I HAVE BEEN ONCE,I SAW THE NEW JUMPS WHICH SPED THE RACE UP TO RATE THAT LEFT NO ROOM FOR MISTAKE.3 HORSES SUFFERED BROKEN LEGS,I HAVNT BEEN SINCE NOR DO I PLAN ON GOING AGAIN.WHAT RACING ORGANISERS HAVE TO REALISE IS,BY PANDERING TO ACTIVISTS AGAINST EVERYTHING WONT STOP THEM,NOR WILL IT ALL OF A SUDDEN GET THEM FLOCKING TO THE RACES.BUT ,WHAT IT WILL DO,IS DRIVE RACING SUPPORTERS AWAY.I GO TO ENGLAND AND NEW ZEALAND TO WATCH JUMPERS NOW.AUSTRALIA HAS GOT IT ALL WRONG,YOU CANNOT RUN A STEEPLECHASE ON HARD GROUND OVER SHORT DISTANCES AT RACE RECORD SPEED AND NOT EXPECT INJURIES.BACK T WARNAMBOOLS 33 FENCES (if you could call them fences)EVEN BACK IN THE OLD FENCE DAYS THEY WERE NOT MUCH HIGHER BUT THEY WERE BRUSHED VERY STIFF AND HORSES HAD TO STAND BACK AND JUMP THEM.WHICH SLOWED THE RACE DOWN THUS IF AFALL DID HAPPEN MOSTLY IT WAS HARMLESS.SO,TO MY PROPOSEL,(ALTHOUGH ITS PIE IN THE SKY STUFF)BUGGER THE DOGOODERS AND SANDAL WEARERS ,THEY SEEM TO BE HELL BENT ON RUINING AUSTRALIAS CULTURE.BAN JUMPING WHICH IS THE WEAKEST LINK IN RACING AT PRESENT.THEN IT WILL BE WHIPS SPURS,YES ,FLT RIDERS USE THEM TOO!DONT FOR ONE MOMENT THINK THAT ONE WEAK LINK ISNT REPLACED BY THE NEXT TO BE AN EASY TARGET.THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE CROSS COUNTRY RACING IS ON PURPOSE BUILT COURSES BUILT ONLY FOR JUMPING OVER LONG DISTANCES AND LIVE HEDGES AND LOGS ON HORSES BRED FOR THE GAME.OH,THATS RIGHT,WE HAD THAT.30 YEARS AGO.I GUESS THATS PROGRESS.OKAY JUST BAN IT.
Darren you have valid points in your argument, but they would be more effective it they weren’t all in caps. That is, after all, the equivalent of yelling at people.
DARREN YA HAVE YA CAPS LOCK STUCK ON
Also, paragraph breaks are your friend.
Sorry guys.My sixteen year old has given me a crash course in computer manners.Did not know.i am an internet virgin.What is aparagraph break?
Darra it’s puttng a two line break between new ideas.
It’s good to have a sixteen year old about for these things, I make good use of ours from time to time (now 12 and 17). A paragraph break is where you hit Return (or Enter depending on your keyboard) to create gaps.
I was talking to a friend today ,(horse trainer)who trains jumpers and also trains my horses,he lost a horse today at the races (broken shoulder)in a flat race and said he wasnt the only one to come home with an empty horse float.
strange,there were no activists there .To clear up another point,jumpsracing is not illegal anywhere in Australia,some states just choose not to run them.This is just how misinformed some people are.
Ilistened to Derryn Hinch’s radio interview with peter rae (president aust jumps assoc.)Derryn stated N.S.W hadn’t run jumps races for ten years.I can assure you the last jumping race was run over forty years ago.In case any body is wondering i don’t have a horse at the moment.
Yes,I have had 3,1 jumper and 2 flat,the jumper by the way is the only one still with us,now an eventer,the other two,”immagination required”.
hey there Darren,
so im am curious, you seem to be very well informed about the whole topic, i am not pro or against the racing. but i am looking for more information about the reasons why there are such high injuries, and you have answered a few. so here is a hypothetical, wha if the barriers were removed and the horses needed to jump distance over height?. what would you think the result would be?
thanks
please, email me at mgarafillis@hotmail.com
im reaseching the possiblities for a viable alternative for a project