The latest victim-card doing the rounds in RWDB-land is that of the dissenter. Those on the conservative side of politics have lately found that feeling marginalised and oppressed isn’t as much fun as it sounds, and they want to tell you all about it.
But a crucial part of the lore of dissent is that it’s other people who are supposed to identify you. You’re not supposed to don the crown of thorns and declare yourself king of the downtrodden. It’s up to other people to assign that title to you, if you’re worthy of it. Hint: getting on the bestseller list and appearing on telly a lot doesn’t qualify as “suffering for your beliefs”.
Also forgotten by the dissenter-than-thou is that dissent, almost by definition, is available only to the privileged class. The educated and effete Galileo was a dissenter, and a hero to be sure — but not because he coined himself one — it was recognised in him, later, by others.
Take another privileged dissenter, Noam Chomsky. He is frequently at pains to point out, in all honesty and humility, how fortunate he is to live in a country where he can be so at odds with the prevailing wisdom of the political classes, and yet still enjoy a prestigious place within it.
And that’s where the precious wheedling of other “dissenters” like the climate denialists comes undone. First, they are self-styled dissenters, rather like the irritating peasant in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who screams “Help! Help! I’m being repressed!” — when few but themselves attributes great heroism to their actions. Secondly, their prominence and in some cases prestige is enhanced, not reduced, by their dissent.
Remember, about the only form of dissent you can actually go to gaol for is Holocaust denialism, and then only in a few countries, and only after you’ve sold a lot of books and been flown to a lot of conferences and given a lot of international publicity and attention. Despite their paeans to seeking the truth, the highest cause to which such “dissenters” seem most ardently committed is getting their names in the paper.
So please, if you’re going to play the precious dissenter card, do it mindfully and do it well. Please remember that if you’re in a position to dissent at all, you’re already sitting in clover compared with the vast majority. The truly marginalised and oppressed we rarely hear from at all, unless somebody has the guts to stand up and draw attention to them — they are the real heroes, the true dissenters, only you’ll never catch them saying so.
It’s been said from time to time that the blind look like sages whereas the deaf look like fools.
So in the interests of more advanced accuracy, we all owe a debt of gratitude to Mercurius, as usual, for so gamely modelling what a blind and deaf fool looks like.
I said I wouldn’t comment here on anything substantive any more. And since there’s nothing of substance in this post, I feel like quite the honest man.
Pity all your mob who claimed to have been so very oppressed during the dark long horrible Howard years didn’t practice what is being preached here.
The so called dissent you are talking about here has been more pointing out how what conservative bloggers are doing now ie merely criticing the govt of the day is no differnet but RWDB’s aren’t carrying on like they are akin to the Christians in the Roman circus.
Er, let me see if I get this. The article purports to be about how today’s RWDB’s are into faux dissent, demonstrating only their narcissism and sense of victimhood. The only actual people quoted to illustrate this theory are Galileo, Chomsky and a fictional character from Monty Python. Well-known contemporary RWDBs all.
Well, evidence never seems to be much of a requirement around here. I suppose this is just a logical extreme.
Well, there’s degrees here. Take Berlusconi – he manages to play the “dissenter” card, boldly deviating from the PC straitjacket of the so-called liberal meeja – despite *personally* owning almost 90% of it.
Its almost admirable. Truth-creation at its finest! Thats sort of mind-bending, night=day, doublespeak really takes some genuine cojones.
I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at here, Mercurius. That dissent is exclusively a ruling-class phenomenon (your third para)? That dissent is easy (your second last para) or impossible (your last)?
Your last sentence is the classic argument delegitimising any struggle of any kind—that because someone is worse off, one has no grounds for complaint. I reject that utterly.
Independent trade union organising, for instance, is extremely risky dissent in huge swathes of the world, including lots of the West. Are the goals of anti-Government unionists in (for a curly example, Venezuela) invalid because other workers in other countries have it worse?
Mercurius also demonstrates perfect pitch in finding Dennis the Peasant “irritating.”. Oh well. I guess since the Party controls the present it also controls the past and so forth. But then, why am I telling you good folks that?
Lefty E — Wow, I had no idea Berlusconi owned the BBC, Agence Presse France, Reuters, AP, etc etc. One clever cat.
How Victorian; how WASP.
One mustn’t draw attention to one’s self, one must carry on nobly and silently and hope that others notice how heroic one is. To mention it oneself would be crass, why, it would be positively middle class. The horror!
So is Al Gore a Dissenter when he first started his crusade, still a dissenter now his crusade is mainstream, or not a dissenter because its mainstream…. my brain hurts…in…my…head…
Being a dissenter doesnt mean bugger all really, It just means you dont hold the majority view. You only become a ‘heroic dissenter” if you manage to swing people to your view of the world.
Are the Exclusive Bretheren heroic dissenters?
Berlusconi is estimated to have a controlling interest in companies that account for 50% of the Italian media by market share.
As you no doubt well know, I’m talking about the Italian media JPZ, and particularly TV. No point pretending it isnt warping Italian democracy: it is.
Well, Mole, no, EB aren’t dissentere, even if they do try to bribe Liberal PMs.
I assent to Merc’s dissent about dissent. It was dumb when left-wingers claimed to be dissenters (witness Janeane Garofoleano claim that she was being silenced by George Bush and co – on national television!) And it’s equally dumb when right-wingers do it. It’s a variant on a standard victim pose.
Mind you, the ultimate in assenting dissent is left-wing magazine Dissent, one of the most doctrinaire publications around.
Shorter Lefty E: Big dumb Italy not know what EU is. Or internet. Or CNN. Duh, how can us silly blind illiterate Eye-talians join EU? Maybe imitate Turkey.
My point is simply the “bold dissenter” trope is indeed part of a neo-con playbook: and they will play it whether it appropriate, inappropriate, or straight-up ridiculous. Berlusconi is a clear example of the latter.
Nearly as conformistly nonconformist as dissenting Presbyterianism, TimT.
Remember, about the only form of dissent you can actually go to gaol for is Holocaust denialism, and then only in a few countries
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Well if we’re going to take into account the whole world why don;t we consider N Korea, the PRC. And what about us?
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So please, if you’re going to play the precious dissenter card, do it mindfully and do it well. Please remember that if you’re in a position to dissent at all, you’re already sitting in clover compared with the vast majority.
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Again a global majority. Most Australian citizens have the capacity to dissent. They can read and write. Could Spartacus write? I think he was a dissenter.
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The truly marginalised and oppressed we rarely hear from at all, unless somebody has the guts to stand up and draw attention to them — they are the real heroes, the true dissenters
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Being oppressed doesn’t make you a hero or a dissenter. It just makes you oppressed. Interesting this tactic of painting dissenters as spoilt rich kid brats. I seem to recall there was a lot of that when the coalition were in power. How ’bout we just listen to what people have to say?
LE, your real point is that you don’t like it when anybody has the gall to disagree wiv your mob. Frankly it’s appalling. “warping Italian democracy”: really. Go elect another people — by force if you have to. Never seen that one out of you chaps before.
Mind you, the ultimate in assenting dissent is left-wing magazine Dissent, one of the most doctrinaire publications around.
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Yeah those who propose to oppose authority are usually secretly in love with it.
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Dissent is boring. This is how it’s done.
Erm.. no, japerz. He controls 90% of Italian television. Not a lot of room left for “Europe” there, is there?
I think any sensible commentator would agree: it hardly a prime qualification to then pose as a ‘dissenter’.
Now you’re just being silly, jpz. Im talking about concentration of media ownership and its impacts on democracy – its not an exclusively a lefty concern, but a well-known liberal one.
I can see you nodding along when everyone (rightly, I might add) talks about Putin buying off and pressuring the media oligarchs to support his United Russia party – but when Berlusconi does the same – possible even worse – Im being a left fascist.
I find you unconvincing, sir.
I can only assume he’s doing it for the lulz LE.
Pretty hard position to maintain otherwise.
All you commenters near the top of the thread who think Mercurius is making things up re. right wing victim narrative – spend a while reading the US blogosphere with reference to David Horowitz, Chris Muir and other RWDBs. They totally think they are now downtrodden heroes, fighting against the new totalitarianism of TEH ONE.
LE: Putin is to Italy as Berlusconi is to Russia. Because they’re both the same, having identical histories and cultures and what-not. Or maybe it’s the other way round. Guess I’ll just have to wait and see what my gut tells me.
If Berlusconi owns 90 per cent of Italian TV, and won with anything less than 90 per cent of the vote, then I guess you got some ‘splaining to do.
I hear the Red Brigades are accepting accusations. (Cheap, yes — but totally in keeping with the spirit of today’s left.)
jpz – you aren’t stuck sitting in the middle seat in coach again, it’s bloody torture…
“accepting accusations” — applications. Good grief, what would Dr. Freud say???
…Oh, yeah, I forgot the ultimate manifestation of the RWDB hissy-fit: Randroids going Galt.
…Because we’d miss them sooooooo much! :-/
“The final dissent of R. Limbaugh’s kidneys”… Ah yes. Rush is a traitor and terrorist who should die of kidney failure. And Sarah Palin should be gang-raped. And people who object to massive future (and essentially unrepresented) taxation through debt are white-power yahoos who practice zany sex acts. And Carrie Prejean is a dumb bitch.
I believe you leftists were saying something about dissent.
Japerz, please (Oh, puh-leeeeeze) point me to where anyone on LP has called for Sarah Palin to be Gang-r*ped. What a warped sensibility.
Hmmm, this is an identifiable rhetorical strategy in lots of areas of contemporary public discoure, and I reckon it’s probably a hang-over from the New Left, all of the worst aspects of whose strategies and ploys have saturated public culture all over the place in the Anglophone world (I won’t be trying to speak for elsewhere) and across the political spectrum. I also think that, although some of his own rhetoric is open to challenge, Mercurius is spot on in asserting the hypocrisy and bad faith of claiming ‘dissent’ from a position that is well within the boundaries of normal or ordinary political speech for those in positions of privilege.
As to the appeal of seeing oneself as ‘dissenting’, it seems to be that it’s more active than ‘victimhood’, allowing those who claim it to see themselves as both marginalised and courageously active. It neatly draws in and explains all of the ambivalences of their taking such a position. And if empirical evidence is needed, then it’s readily available for the would-be dissenter: they can claim to be a dissenting voice simply by using one of the many available (to them) ways of speaking about the world against another.
I take Mercurius’ ethical imperative as the only legitimate one that can be avowed: nobody ought to get to bestow the title ‘dissenter’ on themselves.
So japerz, just to get this straight:
What are your feelings about a national leader, any national leader, having personal ownership of large swathes of the media? Just not a problem, or only not a problem in Italy?
Would you be cool with Obama buying Newscorp, CNN and CBS?
If not, why not?
Yeah, i would have to agree with much of the dissent above. To suppose that dissent is only legitimate if someone suffers is a bit off. Also i think that a few more specifics may have been useful. I got the feeling that Merc may have been referencing a couple of things, either the ‘dissenters’ on the thread about the paid maternal/parental leave or Ian Plimer, but i’m not sure.
Also i don’t see why the peasant in the Holy Grail can’t be said to be dissenting. He speaks truth straight to power, literally, and suffers pain as a result. The net result being that the powerful is embarrassed and has to leave. Pretty effective dissent if you ask me. Just because he isn’t the most downtrodden doesn’t mean he doesn’t have legitimate grievances.
Don’t want to be that guy, but effete actually means barren, exhausted or decadent, not really sure any of those apply to Galileo.
Hmmm, don’t think this is a terribly strong post. People claim to be marginalised, often they’re not. I don’t think there’s really much of a left/right thing there. Sometimes a cigar really is a cigar to both a libertarian or a communist.
JPZ, I *lurve* ‘accepting accusations’.
APPLICATION FOR ACCUSATION POSITION
Sir/Madame,
I am writing in response to the recently advertised position of ‘Assistant Accusation to the Accusation in Chief’, published on the Red Army’s website on the ___ of the ___. I would like to apply for this position.
I have had a great deal of experience as an accusation in many public and private organisations. Some of my experiences as an application follow:
- Accusation in chief for Chairman Mao, during which time I liberally accused many of Mao’s potential enemies.
- Assistant Accusation to Saddam Hussein.
- I have also spent a number of my early years functioning as a Passive Aggressive Accusation in private businesses in the west.
If accepted for the position of Assistant Accusation to the Accusation in Chief, I will do my best to foster a culture of FEAR, MISTRUST and PARANOIA in the Red Army, thus furthering its goals of world domination.
My resume is attached.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to this accusation.
I am,
Yours accusingly,
(And looking forward very much to hearing back from you!)
J.E. Accuse
You seem to have a lot of dissenters on this thread, Mercurious, but it would be bad form to point out exactly who and what.
I don’t know what you’re trying to get at, TimT. Just what are you trying to say, huh?
People claim to be marginalised, often they’re not. I don’t think there’s really much of a left/right thing there.
I think what Mercurius is talking about is middle class Repubs and similar who try to buy into the narrative of persecution – David Horowitz, Jonah Goldberg, the organisers of teabagging (heh!) protests, those people. They’re really an elite but they try to pretend they’re downtrodden.
So, jpz – we’re all having a debate here, and so far everyone has managed to do so without calling others gang-rapists, thugs, terrorists, etc.
Oh – except for one guy, who claims to be defending ‘dissent’.
Is it *just possible* you risk reinforcing Mercurius’ argument with this approach?
The Right has been pretty good at making certain views seem beyond the pale. Look at the way the Libs tried to suggest that trade unions are barely legitimate organizations. To hear Liberals talk, you’d think about 2 million Australians belonged to organizations that were little better than the mafia.
You can have all the column space in this country you like to express the most ill-informed and downright unhinged right-wing opinions, but a strong left-of-centre case is rarely put (and then really only in The Age).
I’ve gotta dissent from TimT’s view: American Dissent is possibly one of the least doctrinaire magazines around. I also happen to think it’s one of the best magazines around. I don’t know many journals where a significant chunk of its writers backed the Iraq war, while just as many strongly did not. Irving Howe created it to get away from narrow sectarianism. Aside from belonging to the New York intellectual/anti-Stalinist Left tradition, it really doesn’t have an editorial line on too much.
Australian Dissent is a pretty good magazine, too.
FDB — why would Obama waste good money buying mass media when they’re already onside?
Every hour you’ve (admirably) spent learning to be a brilliant musician was an hour not spent learning what lobbyists do. Acceptance that there are multifarious forms of expertise is a sign of intellectual maturity.
And speaking of maturity…
Helen, you lack it. As always. Moral and intellectual children should be seen and not heard.
Really, j_p_z, just what is your problem, huh? You don’t seem to be able to engage in argument and debate without insulting everybody who disagrees with you. Others here lamented your self-exile from LP, but I’m beginning to remember now just how utterly unlovely you can be at your worst.
Man, JPZ, why do you do this to yourself?
I meant Australian Dissent, I shoulda checked a bit more before making the link Ginja.
Mercurius
Do you really think you should have posted this, given it is pretty obvious you have no education in the sciences?
What was Galileo dissenting about? He was engaged in debate with a lot of other natural philosophers and mathematicians over the relative merits of Ptolemaic, Copernican, Tychonic, and Keplerian astronomy. He provided new data from his telescope that was robustly contested. He published papers and gave lectures, so did dozens of other prominent scientists. Where’s the dissent?
I accuse you of being John Greenfield. Error has no rights.
LE: “gang-rapists, thugs…”
I’m citing the record, dude. Sandra Bernhard. Look her up. If you have a problem with pattern recognition, don’t put it on me, man. I only know what I see and hear. And I see and hear a whole lot more than simply what goes down in the MSM. You don’t have to believe me. I don’t have to care.
klaus k — see introductory post for the “tonic,” as it were. It appears you have that perception difficulty where you can’t see the guy in the gorilla costume walking through the room in the midst of the basketball game (see TED). I enjoy your writing, but if you can’t come to grips with what I say other than personally, it’s not my problem.
Liam — do what?
I think this is a fairly narrow statement. Surely someone could dissent from drug laws in this country and go to jail. Also, as i think others have said, you could go to jail for a lot more reasons than than in countries such as North Korea or Iran. It’s almost as if the post is only directed at middle and upper class individuals with the majority of their political opinions within the realms of the policies of mainstream parties. In that case, i guess it is hard to dissent, although it’s still possible.
Can’t understand why this post is so controversial, only to those of the right who find themselves on the wrong side of history and can’t cope, poor dears.
Remember when the odious j_p_z made a big song and dance about never posting here again, and many pleaded for him to return. It’s sometimes a pity when you get what you asked for.
Well, speaking of ‘pattern recognition’, j_p_z, I can recognise that you are arguing on this thread, almost without exception, in bad faith. You haven’t answered direct questions, and asserted instead the immaturity and ignorance of those who asked them. Given these obfuscatory assertions of the intellectual inferiorities (or ‘perception difficulties’) of those around you, I can only assume this is something quite personal, because you have offered no other explanation. I can come to grips with anything of substance you choose to offer.
Can’t understand why this post is so controversial, only to those of the right who find themselves on the wrong side of history and can’t cope, poor dears.
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We’re all on the wrong side of history.
One of the more disturbing features of the culture wars is just how many warriors are so lightly armoured, when it comes to education. For example, we can safely conclude that it is not just Mercurius who has no science education, but also his most blustering infantry, such as Lefty E, Liam, Helen, Klaus, and adrian. Wouldn’t it be a better world if those warriors took some R&R and retrained in the higher reasoning skills?
Okay ‘Myrtle’, let’s have a go then shall we: where is my comprehension of science lacking on this thread? How is it relevant? Specify, or I’m inclined to think it’s just a game.
This is the same bad faith style that j_p_z has been toying with. Impute something to your interlocutors, suggest that they are unaware of the all too obvious, but never come through with the goods. I think it’s a neat little rhetorical trick designed to cultivate a bit of mystique: it’s all generalities about lacking this and lacking that. It’s an unassailable position, because it isn’t a position. What is lacking is all too obvious…
Klaus – #29 Again I fail to see what privilege has to do with it? To pose as a dissenter is different from being a dissenter. To properly dissent one has to actively publicly object to something for which there is powerful support. Usually at great risk.
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So there’s a distinction to be had between someone who is genuinely dissenting, say, Vaclev Havel who went to jail, and someone who is simply utilizing the romantic connotations of dissent in furtherance of pushing their own dogma, say, Ann Coulter.
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The difference is easy. People will back away from a real dissenter and then possibly form a cult around ‘em.
klaus k — on the surface I can’t say I agree with your accusations, but in the spirit of a sporting man, I’ll take you up. Please list clearly (and without hostile innuendo or leading questions, if you can manage it) what questions or issues you think I have dodged, and I’ll try to respond cheerfully and in good faith. Detailed queries about Q-ratings and Nielsens in Italy will not be answered b/c I’m not a research mule, don’t have that sort of time, and that was never the point. Keep it philosophical and I’m happy to oblige.
btw, if I’m annoying an utter nothing like adrian then I must be doing something right.
My apologies Klaus. It’s just you seem very defensive towards science. If you do have a science education please accept my apologies. If this is so, it would be great to hear you expand a little on what you think of Mercurius’ blather on Galileo the dissenter. And if it is not too forward to ask, what science education have you had?
I have to agree on the particularly bogan-brains of adrian, lefty e, helen, and comrades.
I see where Mercurius is coming from, but I think the problem is worse in the states. Here’s some self-pity writ large: National Groups Come Together To Fight Media Bias. Get out yer teeny weeny violins and yer teeny weeny bows, because there is weeping and gnashing of teeth going on.
In other words, we waz robbed! Of course, the Republicans could have looked at the faults of their campaign (starting with Sarah Palin’s candidacy), but its not like self-introspection is a common quality in politics.
Cry me a fucking river.
I would take the document more seriously if it focused on issues of competency rather than bias – you know, like newspapers printing corporate PR statements unedited (rather than actually analysing them). Or letting advertisers quash content. Or cutting back on the local police beats and letting AP write all the copy. But since his idea of “bias” is “ideas that are too left wing for me” – fuck him. He’s just another pundit on the GOP gravy train trying to milk the outrage, spite and (dare I say it?) victimization of the 22 percenters for every cent he can.
Oh, and JPZ: stop crucifying yourself. You can never get the last nail in. And it’s a waste of good timber.
j_p_z, you offered this:
“FDB — why would Obama waste good money buying mass media when they’re already onside?”
to FDB’s hypothetical. That is to say, you answered a question with a question that was really an assertion of something that is not obviously related to the question. You made no attempt to argue relevance. It’s just a side-step, you didn’t in any way meet his argument with a counter-argument.
As for your conduct in relation to Helen, you offer some comments about pattern recognition and Sarah Bernhard, and then cast Helen as immature. Once more, a lot of deflection there, combined with asking us to infer some really vague generalisation about someone (I infer) you think represents leftism.
“btw, if I’m annoying an utter nothing like adrian then I must be doing something right.”
More of the same.
Klaus, further – In Gladwell’s book Outlier he does touch on this aspect of privilege. He describes the failure of a working class genius who had to drop out of college pretty much because he couldn’t convince his lecturer to let him shift classes. He compares this with Oppenheimer who tried to kill his postgrad supervisor and talked his way out of it!
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I shoulda tried that the crusty old Marxist had it coming.
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The difference Gladwell asserts is that Oppenheimer knew how to talk to people in positions of power in a way the working class genius did not. He felt entitled to do so. This is truly an aspect of privilege. One is brought up encouraged to ask questions and challenge authority if necessary. One feels entitled to do so. Thing is, in a democracy – we’re all entitled to do so.
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The problem isn’t that the privileged feel entitled to dissent, the problem is that there are those who don’t. Don’t you agree? The difficulty I have with this dissenter = spoilt brats riff is that it serves only to further marginalize anyone who’s already marginal to begin with – for reasons that have nothing to do with what they’re saying.
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It’s an old tactic.
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I’m always amused when Andrew Bolt raves on about cultural elites and how they’re out of touch and blah blah blah. It’s exactly the same tactic that the powers that be use in, say, Egypt, to marginalize those (yes, educated) voices who advocate democracy, an end to nepotism and an open market. That is, who advocate what Bolt’s supposedly advocating.
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Personally I think the only way to meet a charge of elitism is to acquiesce to it and thank whoever belabels you such. Be elite and proud of it.
It’s probably a wee bit off topic but I think the Wanda Sykes/Limbaugh incident/”joke” is interesting. If it was still Pres Bush and similar jokes and comments were made about say Garofalo Bush would not have laughed. Nor for that matter would have Howard and to be fair I’m reasonably confident nor would have Rudd if there was an Aussie parallel. That said in Rudd’s defence its the Left ( generalisation I know) who have the greater problem here of claiming patently false victimhood and using it to justify nigh on anything. Claiming Howard had somehow shut down debate etc.
“It’s just you seem very defensive towards science”
Where on this thread? Are we going trans-thread meta-stoush? It’s true though, I have been defensive of science on other threads. Just not in terms you care to engage with meaningfully ie nuanced terms, terms informed by more than just the narrowest of narrow ideas of what science is.
“Personally I think the only way to meet a charge of elitism is to acquiesce to it and thank whoever belabels you such. Be elite and proud of it.”
Lefty E has been living this ideal, in our presence, for many years now.
Actually “privilege” is precisely the issue. Unfortunately, not enough posters here have it in either the intellectual, education, or raw smarts sense. Sorry to be so blunt, but they just don’t cut it, and I hate to say it, but as a result they really do slow down otherwise stimulating debates.
Down and Out: don’t see where your substance is. Argument by assertion, or better yet by point-and-sputter, is a proven staple of the garden-variety witless left (but I repeat myself); but it butters no parsnips here in my intellectually gated community.
So far, something like a dozen leftists have come flying at me, enraged, in a brainless (and what’s worse, a witless) tizzy.
Y’all got nuthin’.
Maybe we should all go back to limericks. Eh?
its the Left ( generalisation I know) who have the greater problem here of claiming patently false victimhood and using it to justify nigh on anything. Claiming Howard had somehow shut down debate etc.
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I don’t think that’s true. Ann Coulter writes the biggest load of utter shite and in it, claims that Darwinian biological theories are the result of an atheistic cult rooted in mindless dogma! She uses Richard Dawkins’ The Blind Watchmaker to ‘critique’ evolutionary theory and thus you can tell she’s a liar because all of the ‘flaws’ in the theory are full expounded in Dawkins’ text.
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In truth there are competing orthodoxies and avatars of both claim to be brave dissenters. In truth those same avatars are agit-prop robots spewing their side’s doctrines. Neither are dissenters.
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PS Howard did shut down debate.
Yes indeed, that’s what the E stands for – in case there’s any newjacks in town! Its a hangover from the Howard days, which I shortened after his demise.
The irony is, Id probably oppose “Lefty Elitism” if I could be convinced such a thing actually existed. Very few of the lefties I know fit the bill – and most of the elitists Ive come across have been apolitical arty types, or old-school privately-educated conservatives. Like Flinty.
But back in the culture wars, before the glorious victory of the forces of good over evil – anyone who didnt agree with every rank populist utterance (many sicne recanted) that our glorious leader spake, or who thought there might be more to life than consumption; or who was even interested in literature rather than telly; or indeed, appeared to express any opinion that mught place them in some minority – or wirse – within 5 kms of the CBD, was thus labelled.
I was pretty happy to start a pride movement under those circumstances. Plus the label itself just made me larf
Oh, and Hello Myrtle: You know what: I dont think Ive ever encountered anyone at LP with so little to offer on first blush.
Here’s a tip, instead of insulting people – why not offer something substantive on the thread’s topic? See how you fare against the ‘bogan brains’ on your list there.
Ante up when ready. PS I like Bogan Brain. Maybe Ill keep it.
Actually “privilege” is precisely the issue. Unfortunately, not enough posters here have it in either the intellectual, education, or raw smarts sense.
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Being smart isn’t a privilege it’s a talent. Being educated is not an entitlement either it’s something that’s developed. An attribute that is earned. Just sayin’.
“The final dissent of R. Limbaugh’s kidneys”… Ah yes. Rush is a traitor and terrorist who should die of kidney failure. And Sarah Palin should be gang-raped. And people who object to massive future (and essentially unrepresented) taxation through debt are white-power yahoos who practice zany sex acts. And Carrie Prejean is a dumb bitch.
in fact, this is all out of your mouth, crazy jpz-man
say more, in as many places as possible, you’re a great advocate for your side
Yeah, ad hominem, ad nauseaum. I havent seen much debate, or anything approaching respect for the rules of civil liberal discourse.
But in jpz’s defence, maybe it his Own Private Guantanamo: after all, who needs the rule of law when you’re defending liberty?
Just ignore myrtle, it’s just greenslime in one more pathetic disguise.
Well said, Myrtle. I assume that now you plan to withdraw gracefully from this discussion, to set an example for all the other less privileged posters for whom you speak.
LE @ 65: is curiously silent as to all preceding matter: is he the Li’l Lefty Drummer Boy who’s (as usual) been beaten like a drum, but who chooses to go and fight new battles in fresh new places where they’ve never before seen his leftist arse kicked up and down the street?
Yup, never seen that before. (I must be an evil redneck rather than a realist.) Certainly not in 1989, the memory of which has been washed from my honorable leftist brain cells, assuming I ever had any.
The big problem with the left is that it’s never made to pay for its mistakes.
Not many Nazi literary critics on campus these days, are there. But the theories of you monsters are presumed to get a free pass.
Call me when you find some personal dignity.
Oh and by all means keep encouraging types like Mike @ 67. He makes greeeat copy.
Oops, sorry klaus k, and thanks for your clarifications/questions/accusations. Will take them up in due course as promised. Cheers!
Not many Nazi literary critics on campus these days, are there. But the theories of you monsters are presumed to get a free pass.
.
Oh brother.
.
Call me when you find some personal dignity.
.
Why you want us to share. Jeez. It’s time for your 300th cup of coffee or what?
When I was a little girl, my father told me, that when I had something to say, the people would listen. They don’t listen. They never listen.
Then I grew up and didn’t go to university, and Im glad. I wouldn’t step foot in one.
I hate the petty intelligencia. They smack me on the mouth, smooth as silk, hard as a rock.
I think Malcom Turnbull is sex on stick.
Why does Kim hate me?
Ah Rob, remember Rumi our poet of love?
We are as the flute, and the music in us is from thee;
we are as the mountain and the echo in us is from thee.
We are as pieces of chess engaged in victory and defeat:
our victory and defeat is from thee, O thou whose qualities are comely!
Who are we, O Thou soul of our souls,
that we should remain in being beside thee?
We and our existences are really non-existence;
thou art the absolute Being which manifests the perishable.
We all are lions, but lions on a banner:
because of the wind they are rushing onward from moment to moment.
Their onward rush is visible, and the wind is unseen:
may that which is unseen not fail from us!
Our wind whereby we are moved and our being are of thy gift;
our whole existence is from thy bringing into being.
I, the lizard queen, wisdom filled, will not be silenced by younger white men.
We are the world, we are the children
Shamon.
Jeez Myrtle, thank you for condescending to visit us; I’m sure we’ve all been improved by the magnificence of your presence.
Oh, we have the trifecta, jpz, myrtle and who’s this come along to entertain us?
Fine: Who am I?
And who is Myrtle, really?
Shamon Sister
Who cares?
“I hate the petty intelligencia”
It’s their pedantry about correct spelling that really gets to you, Wongaroo, isn’t it?
PS Howard did shut down debate.
Stirrer!
Kinda interesting to see, in a thread about dissent, dissenting dissenters dissenting from Merc’s original dissenting line, and the resultant fall out on the thread.
‘Accusations’ was certainly a prescient slip-up!
Hint: getting on the bestseller list and appearing on telly a lot doesn’t qualify as “suffering for your beliefs”.
Remember poor Antony Loewenstein! How he howled, railed, moaned and groaned about the vicious oppression inflicted on him by hoWARd, how he shrieked about the appalling suffering meted out to him by the evil minions of the VRWC.
Why, it went on for years, it got to the point where you could not pick up a paper or watch the telly without Ant being there, bewailing his dreadful suffering and the endless torments hoWARdandbusHITLERian censorship and oppression, or vividly describing his suffering.
I take it, Mercurius, that he did not receive your memo?
MarkL
canberra
So, in sum, you’d rather lose everyone’s respect than lose an argument, jpz?
Take it on the chin, and move on. There’s always a faster gun, and you gotta know when to fold ‘em.
But tomorrow’s another day. I have to say, you’re normally better at it than this.
Wongaroo, why would I possibly care? Just stay as sweet as you are.
Christ almighty, where the freak is a mod on this thread? It’s filled with the most unedifying shit I’ve seen this side of Catallaxy.
Can we not block Greenfield’s IP or is he surprisingly sophisticated? At least can we delete him et al.
And JPZ, no offence man, but I wish you’d stayed fucked off if this is all you have to offer. In addition to soiling the memory of your past good posts and the embarrassing spectre of a failed tanty, it’s just not nice.
How about a hypothetical example of the phenomenon the OP is talking about?
Let’s say there’s a regular commenter on a blog. Although many of his pronouncements are hardly historic material, he shows his healthy self regard by adopting the moniker MLK, for Martin Luther King. To show, you see, how he is the Speaker of Truth to Power, the equivalent of a revered historical figure in his honesty and integrity.
One day someone insults this snowflake and he decides to flounce off in a huff, for ever and ever. (Which isn’t long, in blog-commenter land. He’ll be back within a couple of months.) Anyway, to show just how persecuted and victimised he is by the lefty scum on this hypothetical blog, he signs off with the full moniker – Martin. Luther. King!
That’ll show’em!
(Because, of course, the original nym was too subtle.)
Resemblances to any blog commenters living, dead or somewhere in between are ompletely accidental.
…ompletely – Hah. I think there’s a name for that sort of thing.
Seems no-one demonstrates Mercurius’ point as well, though, as pseudoscientists. P Z Myers asks: “Why does every kook with a stupid idea that gets rejected by scientists compare himself to Galileo?” This was In reference to ID’er Michael Behe, who in an interview modestly pointed out that he’d been persecuted just like that famous historical figure.
Ben Stein is another IDer who feels SO persecuted, he has made an entire movie about it, called Expelled. As in, you see, expelled from society by his OMGRadical but oh so scienteriffic beliefs. Quote:
Obvs Stein, too, feels a kinship with the Great (and Persecuted.)
“Monado” at Science Notes points out, “To wear the mantle of Galileo, it is not enough to be persecuted: you must also be right.“
God bless crazy old Chomsky, the man is a gatekeeper of the Left for the real anti-system bomb throwers (that is, he keeps the JFK and 9/11 conspiracy theorists out of the New Leftish culture he is an icon to). Is that a good thing? Does it quash dissent?
I don’t know. But at least the man is exercising whatever power he has, and that’s always an interesting thing to those of us interested in process.
As to Australia. I think the Rightwing intelligentsia is playing catch up with the Left, and they haven’t figured out that the Leftwing intelligentsia just isn’t very monolithic. But that really isn’t about dissent, it’s about people knowing to create civil space in which to talk and shout at one another.
The irony is that the local Right are these days prone to collectivism but won’t admit it, while the Australian Left(s) are the ones who suffer from a surfeit of individualism, an individualism which goes against the desires of the 20th century socialist and labour movements.
Oh, and criticising Wanda Sykes is nothing but PC gone mad!
Wow, Derrida wasn’t kidding with that stuff about authors having no control over how a text is read. Getting j_p_z out of retirement was just one among dozens of unintended consequences.
The next few extracts summarise exactly what I was trying to say:
TimT:
Lefty E:
Helen:
Klaus:
Helen, again:
Adrien
Yeah, that’s pretty much all I was getting at. *And add to Helen’s list of elite “dissenters” in Australia David Flint, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Ian Plimer etc.
Liam:
Nup, I don’t think that’s what the last sentence was saying at all.
Freidrich:
You’ve got it the wrong way round. The point I was making is that there are a lot of spoilt rich kid brats who are painting themselves as dissenters.
thewetmale:
I agree, which is why I don’t suppose that. But there are an awful lot of well-publicised and widely published self-styled “dissenters” out there who are getting a lot of prime-time interviews and fat royalty cheques as “punishment” for their dissent.
j_p_z
Cheers. Good to know you can dish out way more than you can take, as usual.
Am I a Victorian WASP now? That’s a nice promotion from White Austrian-Irish Jew. (WAIJ?)
Myrtle:
That’s rather elitist of you, isn’t it Myrtle? Do you impose the same lofty standard of qualification on anybody who wants to venture an opinion about climate change, or can any bastard with a Wordpress install have a go? I’d say that facing prosecution by the Vatican for his scientific papers is a pretty solid example of courageous dissent on the part of Galileo, but then without my scientific training, who am I to say?
It’s been a nice day for you Myrtle, but it’s over now. You’ve insulted nearly every contributor on every thread, and your time is up. Good-byeeee!
Not sure if you’re being ironic or not, nickws, but I couldn’t let this pass. Left or right, good taste or no, Wanda Sykes’ principal offence is being a crap comedian – she’s about as funny as puppy roadkill. As for Obama supposedly enjoying her act, I think I recognised that forced smile from the last time I saw Queen Elizabeth pretending to be charmed by the company of Rolf Harris.
Well, the slime certainly hit the fan there.
tim g, I chuckled at her delivery of the line, “I wish his [Limbaugh's] kidneys would fail.”
When she has good material to work with she seems okay.
We can’t all be humourless killjoys.
patrickg — was it something I said? Maybe I should look into breath mints or deodorant or something.
Mercurius — Ah yes, fair’s only fair, you’re certainly entitled to shoot back. Though I don’t think the idea that ‘I can dish it out but can’t take it’ will stand up over time. Being the unpopular kid (like I am around here) has its costs once in a while. Whaddaya gonna do. Here’s a deal: spend a few months over at Ace of Spades and then we’ll compare notes.
Helen — hee hee. Hit a nerve, did I? But I’m flattered you could tune in on such an obscure historical reference. Don’t think it’s quite to scale with say MLK, personally, but we all have our principles from time to time. Just think: count your blessings it was never ericblair8963, right? All the same, the Haarlem van Van der Vander Chapter of the New York State Historical Society sends you its best wishes.
klaus k — will have to get back to you in a more thoughtful and considered fashion. This here is just a bit of tidying up after, apparently, my falling down a staircase while carrying Eleven Marshmallow Cream Pies.
Meantime, whatever else this thread turns out to be, it’s certainly Exhibit A in why I should stick to limericks around here. I think that great orator Porky Pig had something trenchant to say in this regard… Something about “th-th-that’s all” and “folks,” but he put it better than I could.
True, all too true. We are all the pride of Brisbane Town, we wear maroon, blue and gold. Go the Roys. Make a noise.
Jesus I love performance art on blog threads. Don’t ever change, anyone.
Who’s the King Of Pop now?
Indeed. One of Greg Sheridan’s finest moments was around the time of the high point of One Nation when, in a column on that phenomenon, he called out Peter Coleman on his ridiculous claim that there was a “soft totalitarianism of the Left” in Australia on issues of race when, in Sheridan’s words, any conservative who could punctuate had a good chance of having a regular newspaper, magazine or tabloid electronic media gig.
What Haiku Hoges said. Cracking effort, people. We even had Greensleeves and J-ro turn up in drag. That said, this thread would have scored higher marks for difficulty if it had been conducted in verse perverse.
Japerz, loves ya work, baby. You know, when I saw your comment at numero uno I considered suggesting that you might not want to enstoush yourself on this ‘un after your recent
hissy fitcontretemps. Thank fuck the little dude with the pitchfork on my shoulder brought me back to my senses. Top banana.You have to admit jpz is right on the money with the left wing media. You see it everywhere and nowhere is it worse than with the ABC. From the stacked couch of The Insiders, the restrained analysis of Chris Uhlman (imagine what he could say if his hand weren’t too tied) to the mind games on ABC radio. I remember interviews on 702 where it appeared on the surface than any ALP politician that went on would get the rough questions and yet Coalition politicians would get an easy ride. Not so. It was more subtle than that. When Alexander Downer was given free reign to rant up to several minutes about the incompetance of the ABC the silence of the ABC journo was telling. A passive aggressive damning. A more balanced approach would have been to say “hear hear” after every point to show she was giving proper respect. As for Obama and the media talk about a free ride. The New Yorker even commissioned a very tasteful pointing of him and his wife for the cover and don’t get me started on Fox News and their constant baracking for Barack.
Now where’s my Bex pills? I need a good lie down.
That line on Downer should have read “When Alexander Downer was given free reign to rant up to several minutes about the incompetance of the ALP the silence of the ABC journo was telling.”
Sigh. Not only do we on the left hog all the mass media we can’t even spell right!
… for Obama and the media talk about a free ride. The New Yorker even commissioned a very tasteful pointing of him and his wife for the cover…
The New Yorker! Quote from their regular columnist Hendrik Hertzberg on Obama: ‘The guy can do no wrong’. Yeah, they’ve given up any kind of middle-of-the-road political line – they’re pretty much just happy to barrack for Barack these days.
Galileo looks at large ant his daughter has just fried in the Florentine sun by using a magnifying glass: [after peering at fried ant intently for several minutes] Nevertheless, it moved.
One word, teabaggers.
j_p_z @39,
Fox News, Iraq war – you are the, how you say … joke?
OK. Being serious for a moment. I noticed that the Teabaggers weren’t restricted to so called “free speech zones” like their left wing contemporaries were two years ago.
I think there is dissent and then there’s narcissistic dissent, made with one eye on the broadcasting lens. When one uses the narcissistic dissent ploy to try and make an argument that wouldn’t fly any other way, I think we could call that breaking Dennis’s Law. It ain’t restricted to the right or left, but the right is in the ascendancy on this at present.
And then there’s the uberunderdog. The member of a privileged elite who excuses hirself to don hirs moleskins and akubra (substitute relevant garb for region of choice) to prove that hir’s your mate. “Where’s a cow?”, they ask, “I want to punch one.” And little cans of bulldust, that one can sprinkle on the elastic sides to prove you’ve just hit the smoke hot from the outback.
Jeez, I’ve arrived late and missed all the fun.
Seems that Japerz put his red dress on and came to party, but is now weeping in the powder room. Too bad.
Let’s face it. The founding document of the US, the Declaration of Independence, is a whinge against a conspiracy. Victimhood therefore is valorised in American culture and becomes the default setting.
The meme associating Bush with the fell purposes of George III was well-rehearsed by elements of the American Left. (Sensible leftists like my good self, on the other hand, recognised Bush for what he was — not a dangerous conspirator but a bumbling idiot.)
Since the advent of Obama, the American Right has been so demoralised and disorganised that a common thesis of conspiracy has hardly taken root. Rather, we see rehashes of old racist conspiracies and poor reconstructions of right wing arguments against the 1960s counterculture. This is very poor stuff.
I’m sure that wingnut conspiracy theorists will eventually get their acts together and construct a common narrative of liberal conspiracy more in tune with the times.
After all, conspiracy theories are as American as cherry pie.
Mercurius’ post is a little premature but is correct in broad terms while necessarily lacking supportive detail.
That is the problem of the RWDBs, not Mercurius.
Patrick B — you’re a little bit late for the pile-on. Still, welcome aboard. It’d be kind of hard to deny that I’ve come off sounding like a twit above passim, so I’m just gonna eat it and hope it puts hair on my chest. Still, you’d be amazed to know there’s people in the world who dislike Fox News, the far left, and George Bush *all at the same time!* How do we do it? Maybe someday someone’ll make a documentary.
Roger Jones makes a good point. I’d add that there’s narcissistic assent as well, which is maybe why we see such dionysiac demonizing of opponents lately; a point I mighta made last night, had I been seeing less red.
klaus k — just wanted to revisit your comment so you wouldn’t think I was breaking faith. (I’ll keep this brief b/c I fear I’m trying people’s patience.). Looking back over the thread I’d say I was arguing more in anger than in bad faith. Some of the flying insults are simply part of the stoushing game, some (you’ll note) were return volleys on my part and not serves, and some of it simply mirrors the alarming rise in ritual contempt I see in the left lately. Maybe you don’t notice it, but it’s sort of a-fish-doesn’t-know-it’s-wet kind of thing.
In a calmer mood, I’d say LE’s point about Berlusconi is a healthy one to keep in mind, but it doesn’t necessarily govern the argument. There’s a more complex point to make, but I’ll spare everybody. FDB as usual was a model of sanity (sorry for getting sharp with you, bud.)
There’s a certain kind of deep-sea fisherman’s fun to be had in seeing how much stress a line can handle before it breaks; but if it breaks when you weren’t expecting, you wind up looking like a jerk. So: lesson learned. At least I kept Liam and Graf von Baza-strip entertained. There’s worse things one can do.
Carry on.
The pleasure is all mine, JPZ. (I still think you went a bit far at #39 though).
Katz:
In other words, it’s a set of unwarranted and gross generalisations? Finally, we agree.
I’m no drag queen. I’m a troll performance artIst. Except for forgettng to put in the bit about Liam beng a Labor party hac and my love for Chavez – I was pure method. I was Brando before the Island of Dr Moreau – You couldnt pick me from the real one if you tried Red.
Greensleeves, you’re one of the less successful experiments from the island of Doctor Moron.
Speaking of dissent in the press did anyone read the balanced piece about political suppresion at http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/melodrama-at-the-monthly-shows-how-a-good-debate-needs-two-sides-20090512-b1ox.html
I can’t quite believe you go it so wrong. But there you go. Something has gone horribly wrong with my method acting no doubt, but I choose to blame you for being uncharacteristically obtuse in this instance. Wonga is in fact, not John Greenfield. Actually, he is a dog up the road from my friend’s house. His owner says he is “an ignorant dog”, but that’s another story. However, that’s no reason to call him Greenfield. How dare you. I shall retire forthwith and take my meagre talents elsewhere.
Obviously jinmaroo, who at least has the ability to write a coherent sentence and is mildly amusing most of the time, unlike an attack of greenslime which is boredom personified.
“Finally”?
That sounds terminal. Are you contemplating sulking like Japerz in your pavilion?
What does “RWDB” stand for?
And what was all that about?
The only “real” dissenters are those who patiently wait to be named?
We must wait in line to have our turn? Our 15 minutes in the sun? The progressives have won and this is how it shall be done.
Who are the narcissists? I’m sure Tom Switzer is for one,as is our PM (probably). Yet until they crash and burn they may do little harm, and maybe more good. Keating springs to mind, and what a narcissistic little shit he could be.
Holocaust denialism is the only one? Just ask Mr. Pratt (well maybe a bit late now). All this competition stuff just gets in the way of some jolly good old fashioned philanthropy. Oh and don’t declare your taxable income. Send it to to Hamas, Israel or whoever and see how long you can spend avoiding the slammer. Gotta love Skasey. Never did he ever see what he did was wrong, but then again I guess Henry Ford felt the same.
So I can understand how they must feel. I mean they built this world by fair means or foul. And surely any transgressions must be overlooked for the greater good? Introspection, at the core of Christian ethos in spite of Luther bastardising with “faith alone”, doesn’t fit well with them. Pause for but a second and all could be lost.
I think this is about the culture wars (what a silly name), and I think conservatives should be arguing about progressions rate and not building a dyke of ignorance and actually believing that to paddle upstream is the same as stemming the tide.
“There is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come”. Even if there wasn’t a Galileo there still would have been a Galileo (if you get my drift).
So let them build their make-believe Camelot. I for one will not go there (and neither will most of you), for it is “a silly place”
BTW, I still don’t know what RWDB stands for. Can any one enlighten me?
Speaking of dissent in the press did anyone read the balanced piece about political suppresion at http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/melodrama-at-the-monthly-shows-how-a-good-debate-needs-two-sides-20090512-b1ox.html
Yes I see $weetie is cleaving to Warhaft as his New Best Friend. Hasn’t she suffered enough?
Relational Wholesale Data Base. The RWDBs, you see, are mostly storemen and packers, logistics managers, and forklift operators.
Ludicrously, “Eat the Rich” pretends to be incapable of doing a Google search.
“Hasn’t she suffered enough?”
Gideon you mean?
OK, Ray White Double Bay group. Thanks Google
RWDB = Right Wing Ding Bat.
aka Right Wing Death Bringer (I think.)
And apart from Nick Minchin and his mates …. [Sighs.]
I thought it was right wing dirt bag. You know like a Teenage (young liberal) Dirtbag.
Right Wing Death Beast??
And on the Monty Python meme:
1. It’s Right-Wing DeathBeast.
2. There’s no concept of being a victim of persecution for one’s beliefs enfolded in the word “dissenter”. To dissent merely means to disagree. Sometimes it means to disagree with a majority opinion (e.g religious dissenters, or dissenting judgements). Thus it is perfectly acceptable to self-describe as a dissenter, if there’s some objective evidence that your variant opinion is in the minority. It doesn’t mean your correct, brave or martyred in dissenting.
3. Righties didn’t start their cult of victimhood with the defeat of Bush and Howard, they’ve been doing it for years. What do you think “It’s political correctness gone mad!” is about, or all the demented shite about the liberal media etc?
4. But they learned it from us Lefties, which is why Monty Python were able to send up hair-trigger complaints of repression by left-wing protestors way back in 1975.
I dissent from the traditional and oppressive spelling of “you’re”!
Very true, weaver, and we still do it best.
Lefties still do it best, so true so true. Liam i wouldn’t know where to start but that was great. If only this thread had gotten together using directly democratic methods by appointing a facilitator and forming a consensus to go through with then it wouldn’t have turned into back and forth stoushing. I’d love to see the RWDB equivalent… ugh, yeah, guys. Can we like, just form a market, and let it work and just see what the most efficient way forward would be.
I also can’t get enough of how difficult it appears to be for the leader to get everyone organized, especially the agro guy who keeps abusing the cops/security. What a classic.
“…water bottles, they probably wont take water bottles. They probably drink corporate water”
ROFLMAO
The whole thing makes me want to link to this
Yairs. How very dare me.
First up, really deep apologies if you’re not Greensleeves.
Second, in my defence, @ #110 I was responding to the commenter @ #109 who was playing with the “Wongaroo” name as gracelessly as Greensleeves does with himself in public. And, to be frank, if you’re not Greensleeves you deserve an Oscar Mayer Wiener for Best Impersonation of a Fuckwit, because that was an outstandingly Greensleevian comment. If anything, your acting was too good. *Golf clap*
Third, if you ARE J-ro, please don’t retire. I think you’re fantastic fun and enjoy your stoushing immensely. Srsly.
P.S. What Weaver said at #125 is exactly what’s wrong with the post and the ensuring “debate” on this thread. I’ve rarely seen such an unedifying spectacle* as the worthies on this thread trying to claim the privilege of being underprivileged in “dissent” for their side of the ideological divide. Well-played, Weaver. Strangely enough, this thread has made me inclined to watch this video. I blame joe2pac.
* NTTAWWT.
What are we dissenting from again?
Not entirely correct Weaver.
The etymology of the word goes back to the English Reformation, as you suggest. At that time (the 17thC) there was no conception of permissible heterodoxy. To declare dissent from the canons of Anglicanism was to declare one’s self as disobedient and perhaps even heretical. There could be no open debate. Instead persecution was the order of the day.
Goodonya jpz, for the re-front. It takes some style.
I think we can probably all agree that RWDBs are just as capable being the sort of whining losers certain first-world lefties have been, historically, on this very score.
I guess its no surprise we’re encountering more RWDBs in our fieldwork right now. As Jon Stewart, put it: ““You lost. It’s supposed to taste like a shit sandwich.”
That’s all you needed to say, Katz. Heh.
In truth, there was no need to say anything.
Yaaas. Ain’t democracy swell?
Yes, and if I understand it correctly – teabagging might indeed impair free speech.
Nickws@89:
The Rightwing intelligentsia is the Left: dig up Windschuttle’s rants against Henry Kissinger or Piers Akerman against that RWDB Malcolm Fra[insert swastika in place of 's']er. That Trotskyism must be powerful magic.
As for $weetie, I was looking for an excuse.
“You lost. It’s supposed to taste like a shit sandwich.”
Actually that’s a monstrous sentiment. I’ll leave it to you titans of philosophy to ravel out why. Like I say, fish don’t know they’re wet.
Oops, gotta run. That dog with the glasses has just set the Wayback Machine to, oh, 2000 or thereabouts. This oughta be funny to see…
Hmmm. On a completely unrelated matter. Can anyone here explain to me the etymology of the word ‘spruiker’. I used it the other day on an international forum and noone knew what it meant, not even a kiwi. I looked it up – all places give the definition, and clearly it’s an aussie thing, but none offer suggestions to the origins. Is it derived from the german ‘to speak’ – that’s my best guess, but does anyone know for sure? sorry, I know it’s completely off topic, but..well..what was the topic again?
Actually it’s a joke.
You can’t handle the normal crass crowing of victory, jpz. You dislike the crowd, you hate passion. You profess to prefer it dry.
But something drives you to fall again into the fray to insult all and sundry and to demonstrate your blinding superiority.
Cure that itch and you’d be perfect.
Actually its called a JOKE, japerz.
You want to take yourself less seriously, muchacho. You’ve been quite the sanctimonious bore around here lately, and I have to say, far too slow on the uptake about the directions of some arguments for the ‘me vs idiots’ routine.
snap, Wbb.
On the shit sandwich thing (‘shit taco’, to be precise), here’s the context.
LE — the uptake line was a good one, got to give credit where it’s due.
But if you’re inclined, slow it down for a moment and consider the thing at a more leisurely pace. (Though if you’re tired of all this and just want to put it to sleep who can blame you?). Stewart famously wants it both ways: he wants to be a cultural totem (and he is one) and a political voice (and he is one), but he also wants to shed accountability at will by claiming it’s all just comedy when it suits him. Surely you know that. And be fair, you know I know what a joke is. We also both know that good jokes have weight, and are backed by something. Except in the case of Ernie Bushmiller. You cited that particular line, not a line from Blondie and Dagwood, and you had a reason for your selection. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I’m asking you for a moment to contemplate the ripple effect.
Think if a comedian had said to the gay citizens of California, “Suck it up! You lost on Prop 8! It’s *supposed* to suck when you lose!”. Is it classy, or a model of citizenship? Is it funny?
I’m past trying to score points here (not succeeding apparently anyway). But do you not detect a kind of poison in contemporary political discourse that is aided and abetted by imputing the worst motives by default to any opposition? Presumably that sort of thing is forever with us, but as Stevens says, ‘of this an and yet and yet and yet…’ I’ve been a legal voter for 20 years and counting and what I see in this sorry decade alarms me more than what I saw in the past. (btw, statistically I have tended to vote Democrat, albeit joylessly, and I voted against Bush twice.) Could be approaching senility on my part, could be something else. I recall some study which said that the chronically depressed really do tend to see things more clearly than healthy people. Scary thought. Maybe we should make depression a criterion for voter eligibility.
I think someone desperately needs to see Jon Stewart’s defence of Miss California and her opinions on gay marriage to understand that TDS doesn’t want to have it as many ways as, say, FoxNews does.
PC, how do you get around the ‘Sorry-wrong-region’ proscription of Daily Show footage? I’m too backwards to know how to, but I want to watch his extended interview with Cliff May.
Andrew E, before too long those old hard Left Quadrant rats are going to be retired (or dead) and you won’t have them to kick around anymore.
Hi Nick!
If Stewart defended Miss C then good for him. It doesn’t change any principles, though. I don’t have a giant laundry list of positions Stewart must take to win my approval.
Look, Stewart is pretty funny and he isn’t Pure Evil. (That would be Rachel Maddow.) And after all, the shit sandwich/shit taco line is funny and well crafted. But there’s still a twinkle of sadism and revanchism behind it that’s very uncool, esp. since it could easily turn into an aphorism or a bit of folk wisdom and be used destructively. “Elections have consequences” is a simple truism of democracy. But “I won, you lost, eat shit!” is a discourse unworthy of a free people. It wouldn’t be cool if Limbaugh said it, and it’s ugly on Stewart’s lips too.
Good grief. Quitting blogging is harder than quitting smoking, isn’t it.
“But “I won, you lost, eat shit!” is a discourse unworthy of a free people.”
It would certainly be nice to see an end to it in the U.S. where, in my view, its worst manifestations began. It would provide a good role model. Still, I think you need to look at the Stewart comments in context as P.C. suggests.
Duh –
piratepolitics. Some days you’re the dog, some days you’re the lamp-post.Personally, I’m much heartened to see that Teh Right doesn’t have the monopoly on petty dickheads.
Jaysus, Japerz. Here, have a cup of harden the fuck up.
Japerz, you’d be correct if Edwardian standards of public behaviour still pertained.
But a lot of bile has flowed under the bridge since 1914.
Regrettable? Doubtless.
Irreversible? Certainly.
References to coprophagy more or less form the baseline of live discourse nowadays.
joe2 — yeah, but since people now quote the line free of its context, it has a life of its own. Ah, kulcha. btw I think you’re right about the provenance of this disease. I trace this strain back to Ken Starr/Lewinski days. Of course that was probly payback for Iran-Contra hearings, so… (cue Yakety Sax)
Katz and Sideshow Mel’s Friend: politicians and news editors smearing each other is politics. Group intimidation on the street level (see Prop 8 in Sunshine Land or Tancredo at UNC, u.s.w.) is part of a growing culture of the normalization of hatred. Man bites dog is weird enough, but Man bites dog-owner’s relatives visiting from Tacoma is sort of where we are now.
Are folks from Tacoma particularly succulent?
I think there is some merit to what j_p_z is saying. From watching TDS and a little of the shows on MSNBC, mainly because they have a good video player, i do get the feeling that the left in America has gone towards what they hated about the right through all the bush years. Sure, Rush Limbaugh shouldn’t be saying he wants Obi Wan Kenobi to fail if he wants to be taken seriously, but at the same time, much of the left wing reaction was along the lines of “how dare you question the president. He is the president of America.”
That said, as Jon Stewart has pointed out in the clip with the shit taco reference, Fox news and the right in America have been finding it hard to understand that they lost the election (also it seems that Keith Olbermann isn’t aware that the GOP are no longer running the show.) I think this is true to a much greater degree that what the Australian right are going through. To me, the extreme partisanship is one heck of a shit sandwich, yes a sandwich, that the American political class will have to eat at some point.
As for Jon Stewart, i do think he comes close to being a serious commentator at times but chickens out by playing the ‘i’m just a comedian’ card. He could do better than that. Although it is funny to watch clips like this one to see what should be top notch political commentators looking for advice from a comedian because they are so shit at what they do. Jon Stewart is, more than anything else, very funny IMHO.
“As for Jon Stewart, i do think he comes close to being a serious commentator at times but chickens out by playing the ‘i’m just a comedian’ card. He could do better than that.”
Oh for FFS, can’t do better than a good comedian in my book, especially considering that most commentators have the analytical skills of a chimpanzee on heat.
“….most commentators have the analytical skills of a chimpanzee on heat.”
Many a so called “serious commentator”, in the Australian context at least, is a comedian and doesn’t even realise it. Arise Andrew Bolt and take a bow, you’d fit into the Comedy Festival in a breath.
It’s the only worthy discourse, JPZ. What’s the point of having an election if you can’t crush your enemies, see their policy driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their opinion writers? That is what is best in life.
Anyway, for “normalisation of hatred” see any American campaign of the 19th century. Buchanan, in his grave, thinks you’ve all gone soft.
furious balancing @ 139, not quite the answer, but the Argus 16/11/1916 ran an article posing the very same question.
I really do love that resource.
The earliest they’ve digitised that contained “spruik” was from the NT Times 26/12/1912, which was already using the term much more generically: “as they spruik around town”, selling space in goods-sheds.
I’d hazard a guess it originated out of the showgrounds/fairs in the mid-to-late 1800s, along with a lot of other Germanisms, like “spieler”.
Mmmm, shit tacos…
Whew, good thing I was made up in Deutschland. “Doctor Mabuse, der Spruiker” would look terrible on a business card.
What Adrian said there. Back in the Hawke/Keating era, the sharpest political commentary was consistently provided by the Gillies Report (whose writers included Don Watson). All those who saw the Rundle/Gillies stage shows during the Howard years will know that that tradition continued. And these days, as for some years now, it has been provided every Thursday night at 7.55 (approx) on ABC1 and carried on by the Chaser boys and other worthy successors.
I’ve been to cities that never close down
From New York, to Rio, to Old London Town
But no matter how far or how wide I stray
My home’s Australia but I work in LA
Liamista: “…see any American campaign of the 19th century”
Man, I just can’t keep up! Up until October 2008, dissent was patriotic, the rule of law was The Highest Good, and we were all groaning under the boot-heel of Darth Bush and his fearsome Constitution-shredder. But now that the God-King is emperor of Dune, dissent is treason, laws were made to be shredded, the Constitution is trumped by “empathy,” and not only is hatred cool again, it turns out it’s as American as some old guy named Buchanan! (but not *that* old guy named Buchanan, another one.)
I must fire my social secretary, as I am clearly missing out on all the good memos.
Whinge about conspiracy. QED.
“Whinge about conspiracy. QED.”
Good to see that the Auto-Katz function is still working on this blog. It needs to be tested from time to time just to make sure.
Sally R, thanks for the info re: spruiking. That’s a great site. cheers.
Agreed, PC, on comedy as political insight. It’s definitely preferable to ‘serious’ journalists attempting humour. That’s my problem with Rachel Maddow, it’s just one dimensional, generally unfunny, snark.
I thought Leto II prized dissent highly and tried to make independence of mind a part of his three thousand year anti-prescient breeding programme—or was that Andrew Jackson?
Norto, you’re the resident Dune-xpert around here, I think we need a ruling.
Speak for yourself. I had one of Howard’s hush-puppies squashing my throat.
Stewart is hilarious, IMHO. As I recall it, the line was in response to a host of Fox-type ultras equating the Obama presidency with the return of George III: He’s back, this time with Communists and one world government, hell bent on gun-control.
Was this pre-teabag? I dont know. But it was pretty silly stuff.
I understand Mark’s discontinued the old Auto-Katz, and upgraded to Insta-Quibble, a much more stable version. I know when I was running on Microsoft Sarcastic Wanker XP™ I couldn’t keep up with threads, now that I’ve switched to GNU Banal Unfunny Drone I’m much more reliably banal.
Wasn’t aware of you until today, Mabuse
I liked that word “spieler”, translates literally to “player”. I was reading this article, last night, from The Brisbane Courier 8/6/1883 – Confessions of a Spieler.
Pardon me, thewetmale… but can you actually give any examples of “How dare you question the president” in 2009? I’m not buying it. Obama has got a lot of flack this year. For example, Paul Krugman thinks his efforts to prop up failing banks and useless and counterproductive. Did people take offense? Not much as I recall.
Perhaps you’ve confused outrage with contempt – two different things. Let’s look at Obama’s policy on torture: reveal how widespread it is, and then say he’s not going to prosecute the lower-level CIA agents who did the waterboarding. I think that’s pissweak, as do many Americans. But when torture-apologists come along and call Obama a traitor for revealing the whole sordid episode… well, fuck them. They’re liars and they deserve contempt. Do they deserve any respect? I don’t think so.
Being cast into opposition is never easy, and it’s a long walk out of the wilderness. Poor GOP and poor Liberals. Maybe a tune will make them all feel better.
Does the left really exist?
Is there any meaning in anything anymore?
At the risk of derailing all the awesome snark, what the fuck?
I would suggest that a Supreme Court that can have judges seriously suggesting that forced strip searches of high school girls is no worse than making them change for gym class is so lacking in empathy that it is in danger of losing all notion of what your constitution is all about, j_p_z. The idea that a sense of empathy could undermine your constitution is absurd.
Does the left really exist?
.
It’s all Pam Ewing’s bad dream. Nice cartoon Liam. True innit?
WHAT WAS THAT?
I CAN’T HEAR YOU OVER THE GRINDING DIN OF MY ALL-CONSUMING NARCISSISM!!!
Something my grandmother meant to tell me but never got around to it explicitly; simplifying things somewhat she said “for god’s sake, can’t you just try to be normal”
Anna, I think Japerz was engaging in some colourful dissent, although at least he wasn’t being narcissistic about it.
But I would like to know why Japerz thinks Rachel Maddow is Teh Pure Evil. I think she’s pretty harmless, is most unlikely to rouse a rabble into bloody revolution, and has her whole smiling assassin routine down to a T.
At least Maddow hasn’t, to my knowledge, wished for any Presidents, or kidneys, to fail.
#174
Anna Winter — (oh btw, hi Anna!)
Oops, sorry, the “empathy” reference wasn’t a generalized thing but in fact specific (guess I was a little vague but it’s also possible the story didn’t play in Oz) it was referring to the God-King’s comments on His preferred criteria in choosing a replacement for Souter (i.e. it’s probly groundwork for tapping Sotomayor). Apparently “empathy” is to be valued over actual law-type stuff: this from the brilliant constitutional law perfesser. In other words, the main thing is that a judge should be inclined to find in favor of whoever the God-King’s peeps happen to be at the moment. It sounds distressingly like banana-republic shit.
I don’t know the case you were referring to, but I agree that Duns SCOTUS (lawd I love that pun!) can get a little zany. Not that Obama’s fixes are likely to help. Sadly I’m not a legal scholar, unlike a certain Human Synthesis of Saint Francis, Hammurrabi and Thor, so I can’t comment further on that issue.
Liam — Duncan Idaho gag, wow. You out-do yourself, sir. Milk-nose transit was inescapable.
In what sense “good”?
When Daniel Defoe dissented as a Dissenter in 1702 he was put in the stocks but instead of being pelted with stones, mud, shit and rotten fruit he was pelted with flowers. Just sayin’.
I may be over-reaching a little there. For the record i was thinking of lefties giving that message to right wing critics of Obama, not to left wing critics. Indeed i think it’s fair to say that Obama doesn’t have, and isn’t trying to get, the kind of party/political wing loyalty that Bush had.
Prompted by Lefy E’s post, but for general consumption, here’s the shit taco clip:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=223862&title=baracknophobia-obey
From April 7, about a week before the tea party protests (April 15) although i’m sure the build up would have been in full swing.
While i’m here, i’m not suggesting that Stewart become a commentator, just that i think he should defend his positions a bit more instead of relying on the easy out of saying ‘i’m just a comedian, i’m not to be taken seriously.’ I think he is more serious than all of the political watchers with their 100-days-conventional-wisdom-narrative-taling-points-everything-else-that-i-can’t-think-of bullshit.
But can you think of any examples? Any examples at all? Remember, we’re looking for outrage that Obama is being criticised at all. Not contempt for dodgy arguments and/or dodgy individuals that utter them. I’m waiting.
I like John Stewart, but I find his sidekick John Oliver nastier and funnier.
LOLKatz.
Wait for it: a Dissenting Synthetic Assyrian Hammer-Saint Narcissist of Asisi?
…
Try the mongolian lamb, I’ll be here all week.
I can’t believe, by the way, that nobody’s yet posted Adam Yoshida’s famous Four More Years from 2004. Now *that* was comedy gold—even more so when you remember he’s Canadian.
Beer is the mind-killer.
I will face my beer. I will let it pass through me.
@ 184…
Uh-uh.
The Butler did it — Omnius Vincit.
We’s all eatin’ slig steaks tonizzle!
Well this discussion’s gone way over my head.
“Well this discussion’s gone way over my head.”
Congratulations.
Thanks.
I’d like to thank the Academy.
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/04/07/tomo/index.html
Gosh Helen, you know it’s just not right to use humour against the oppressed.
Tom Tomorrow may have meant to draw Glenn Beck, but he ended up drawing Tim Robbins. It’s almost like a sequel to Bob Roberts – 17 years on, and a little weepy after being jailed for getting too chummy with Jack Abramoff.
Context is everything, j_p_z, and if you could be bothered taking the two minutes out of you busy schedule to go over to comedycentral.com to view Stewart’s piece on Miss California you’ll see that he was at pains to not criticise her beyond stating he disagreed with her, that he had refrained from covering the story for two weeks, that he was aghast at the media circus that the US liberals and the Right had made of it all, that he only spoke out so late because Miss Cali had become a pawn of the Donald.
That is, he had a legitimate case to make, not some strawman argument he pulled out of nowhere because he’s such a brilliant contrarian guy.
That’s some Genuine Burkean shizzle there at TDS. You probably won’t recognise it from inside your anti-Leftist, pseudo-libertarian bubble. The execrable Limbaugh certainly couldn’t pull it off.
Nickws: “Context is everything, jpz…”
See that, you go right off the rails in your opening words. Context is not “everything.”. It’s just generally important and frequently rather useful. If your understanding of “everything” is that loose, we better not ever play poker together. Hmm, on second thought, maybe we should…
CHARLES MANSON: You gotta remember, it was the 60s, man. Context is everything.
The rest of your comment makes no sense to me. Your thumbnail summary of Stewart’s line of thought doesn’t make it sound at all like a legitimate argument, but in any event, why should I bother? You brought it up, not me. It doesn’t change anything about how the shit taco joke comports itself in the world, which is all I was concerned with. Man I can’t believe I just wrote that last sentence. What are we doing to ourselves, Nick? Why does this world have to be so crazy?
btw, I dunno where you get the idea that I’m a libertarian, pseudo or otherwise. It’s awfully Mister Magoo of you. Next you’ll be saying Tom Tomorrow is funny, and that only means one thing: you’ll have to share the seeing-eye dog with Helen and adrian.
But other than all that, spot on.
JPZ! If the sad sad world was coming to an end, and there was a choice between a shiny space ship accessorised by Space Design in orange and beige, on its way to the outer stratisphere with Richard Branson and his Virgin boys and girls handing out champers and other things during the flight, and then Helen and her guide dog back on the grey and ominous shores of the late great Planet Earth dodging the thunderous hooves of the trusty steeds of the Apocalypse and various randmom end of the world lightning strikes – I’d pick Helen any day, you cantankerous contrarian arse. Obvs Helen got under your pleathered skin somewhere and the fallout has been, well, great entertainment really. I thought the MLK analogy beautiful Helen.
Nevertheless, JPZ, some of us have have liked you long time, so welcome back. Dont every go away again. Btw, I do love your surname.
Insanity _is_ the only sane response, Jim. Besides, YSTLIABT.
P.S. “libertarian” is the new “fucktard”. You’re supposed to respond with TAX-EATING COMMIECUNT SON OF JOACHIM OF FIORE. Get with the programme.
On JPZ: the brains we have go to our heads sometimes.
On the Gallagher Bros: They thought they were SO cool, but they were really really not.
FMD. Beige jumpsuits! I am so going with Branson on that one.
“It’s the only worthy discourse, JPZ. What’s the point of having an election if you can’t crush your enemies, see their policy driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their opinion writers? That is what is best in life.”
.
Liam – you have got to learn to get out more – “That is what is best in life”?
.
I wouldn’t go as far as suggesting that teabagging is the first place to begin your journey of non political experiences – maybe a few weeks off and a trip along the coast – bodyboarding is a gentle activity , good for the older folk worried about their health. You can progress to standing up later once you have mastered the new emotions felt from the new perspective your life will develop.
.
The feeling that some call joy when they feel vindicated or supported by the way events turn out still seems to me to be part of the problem- isn’t it just symptomatic of the same old ego-driven , patriarchial “confrontation is better than consensus” bullshit?
“FMD”
In a beige jumpsuit? What curious death wishes you entertain in your idle hours. Who knew you were a Brother of the Beige?. Strange strange Sideshow.
“Very well, madame, if it makes you happy.”
– Gable to Harlow after she shoots him, in “Red Dust”
It’s very thoughtful of you Casey to point it out, but the sad truth is that I’m over forty, and can’t afford to even try looking cool. Last time that sort of thing was even conceivable was… was… well I think Reagan was president back then.
Relax, this is all just schoolyard stuff. Nick and Helen had their pokes at me, so I took a jab or two back. What did you expect for nothing — rubber biscuit?
Why do I get the feeling that Marquess of Casey-berry rules would be awfully slow going. More humane, perhaps, but a ratings disaster.
And now you’ve gone and given me acid flashbacks of “WALL-E” with your space scenario. I’m going to be whistling the score of Hello Dolly all day now.
Thanks a bloody LOT.
Pleasure Japes.
“More humane, perhaps, but a ratings disaster.”
You make me sound like SBS.
And Japes IMO over forty is tres tres cool!
Casey, *sniff* Thank you. that was so lovely. And I get a dog too?!
Doesn’t matter how old it is, it’s what you do with it in a beige jumpsuit that counts.
You have no idea. But, c’mon, don’t bash the beige.
Ah, yes, but which SBS?
Mary Kostakidis or Lee Lin Chin?
Annette Shun Wah or Indira Naidoo?
Silvio Rivier or George Donikian?
what
No, What’s on second.
Les Murray vs Craig Foster?
Fenella Kernebone vs Des Mangan?
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE
So, you finally catch the Stewart clip, j? You have to admit that in the world of strawman arguments it kind of destroyed your argument that the satirist in question is a symptom of American degeneracy. (To readers who’ve just joined us, you’ll be surpised to know that I’m not the one folk here accuse of making strawman arguments. Knock on wood.)
Or maybe you chose to not watch the clip, so as to strike a blow in the ongoing war on context. (Now I know why you come to this blog—you share Mark B’s love of French post-structuralist theory! I mean, how else can we explain, “If your understanding of “everything” is that loose”. Heavy.)
Little Known Fact: Did you know that the Tate/Labianca killers were all highly adept sophists? No? Me neither.
Though Charles Manson is obviously the guy to invoke when accusing your opponent of intellectual paucity. I mean, the kids these days wouldn’t know Margaret Mead or whatever from a hole in the ground, but one mention of old Swastika-carved-into-his-forehead, and they’re all, “Yes, the guy making that argument about BS, he totally rocks. Serious intellect. Word.”
Because people like me let wickedness & poor manners thrive… Damn, you made me admit what I’m really up to. There’s no getting past you, j_p_z.
You’re not a libertarian, pseudo or otherwise? But you do say that George Bush was a Leftist. So you’re the one who votes Constitution Party, eh? Or are you a neo-confederate, perhaps?
Heh, this is the second time you’ve said I’m right about everything, though last time I think you added, “And I hope you choke on it.”
Okay, maybe my overactive imagination just made up that last bit about the choking, but who knows. It does sound just a little bit out of character for you.
{the vapors}Gracious me! No one will ever want to read your blog with language like that!{smelling salts}
Fighting the good fight there, Nickws, keep it up. I thought your summary at #194 of Stewart’s Ms Prejean report was a model of accuracy and lucidity, BTW.
*Whew*
If that is true, I’m going to have to rethink my whole life.
Ah, yes, but which SBS?
Mary Kostakidis or Lee Lin Chin?
Annette Shun Wah or Indira Naidoo?
Silvio Rivier or George Donikian?
Just a reminder to everyone, SBS has EUROVISION tonight and tomorrow!
*Dons party hat, soccer rattle, puts on pie warmer, fills beer fridge*
Heh. La donna e mobile.
Ah, yes, but which SBS?
Mary Kostakidis or Lee Lin Chin?
Annette Shun Wah or Indira Naidoo?
Silvio Rivier or George Donikian?
Surely, Helen is Basia returned unto us?
OK, howzabout this for a game-changer…
MYSELF: You know what? I admit it. Nick, PC, Helen, Casey, LE, you’re all correct. I was wrong about everything, I don’t know what I was thinking. What a fool I’ve been.
EVERYONE: Really?
MYSELF: Yes.
EVERYONE: Hunh…
(Long uncomfortable pause. Everybody stares at their shoes. Finally…)
MYSELF: Oh, don’t be silly, I was only fooling. You’re all completely out of your minds.
EVERYONE: Whew, thank god. For a moment there it looked like we were going to have to find an entirely new dynamic…
Warm Pleatherette Zenger?
Well, fro anoher change of pace – I’d like to sen greeting to any people in 100 years time doing research on early 21c blogging. It probably reads like the collected works of Saki does to me: a heady mix of ‘heh!’ and ‘huhn?’.
And may I suggest, since I gather LP is being archived somewhere – that one day, perhaps on an auspicious date, we have a time-capsule thread for out 22nd century readers?
Good idea LE.
Shall we do it in English though?
Well, for another change of pace – I’d like to send greeting to any people in 100 years time doing research on early 21c blogging. It probably reads like the collected works of Saki does to me: a heady mix of ‘heh!’ and ‘huhn?’.
And may I suggest, since I gather LP is being archived somewhere – that one day, perhaps on an auspicious date, we have a time-capsule thread for our 22nd century readers?
Quite, FDB. I can never be arsed reading my own screeds. F*ck knows why you people do – but bless you anyway.
Well this is pretty much what’d I expect from a thread called “Dissent and Narcissism”.
Yeah Nabs. That’s japerz with the burning arse I’m afraid.
“That’s japerz with the burning arse I’m afraid.”
Well I certainly spotted much more than just one flaming arsehole above.
Don’t our narcissism beat all?
Gabriel-Ernest is a werewolf.
I see you’ve all stopped going for the throat now. What is wrong with you people these days?
Perhaps this should be renamed The Unrest Thread.
Gawd, Billy wilder was an acerbic old bastard. And isn’t it amazing how much space Gloria Swanson can take up for someone who was less than 5 feet tall. There’s quality for ya.
Automatically shortlisted for consideration of the best film ever made.
” And I get a dog too?!”
uh huh, but don’t be too upset if we have to eat it later. We can’t all wear beige jumpsuites while indulging in petite mortes on a Virgin space ship as the world is ending.
Man, Eurovision. The Montenegran girl is doing one serious batman dance and stradling a shirtless guy while singing “get out of my head”. Maybe she should get off his pelvis first. It can only get better from here.
My husband works with someone whose first name is Beige. Kind of sad hey.