Comments on: Guest post: Politicians and Web 2.0 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:10:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Geoff Robinson » Blog Archive » Parliamentary reform http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157807 Geoff Robinson » Blog Archive » Parliamentary reform Thu, 28 May 2009 05:38:40 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157807 [...] participation by MPs and party supporters outside Parliament. Some of Penny Sharpe’s comments here touch on [...] [...] participation by MPs and party supporters outside Parliament. Some of Penny Sharpe’s comments here touch on [...]

]]> By: What do the public servants think? « LitFuse http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157806 What do the public servants think? « LitFuse Tue, 26 May 2009 08:36:28 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157806 [...] Steve Collin’s blog post expands on the article I pointed to recently from Lavartus Prodeo on the use of Web 2.0 by politicians and government (Thanks to Penny Sharpe for pointing me to both [...] [...] Steve Collin’s blog post expands on the article I pointed to recently from Lavartus Prodeo on the use of Web 2.0 by politicians and government (Thanks to Penny Sharpe for pointing me to both [...]

]]> By: Andrew Reynolds http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157805 Andrew Reynolds Tue, 26 May 2009 02:14:24 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157805 Penny, I was not trying to say that this process is wrong - as you note this is a seperate debate, although I do have a strong opinion on it. I was just trying to illustrate why web presences from individual members bound by the Pledge are bound to be less useful than those that are not. I would not, as you have done, single out the ALP on this, however - even if the Pledge did originate there. Penny,
I was not trying to say that this process is wrong – as you note this is a seperate debate, although I do have a strong opinion on it. I was just trying to illustrate why web presences from individual members bound by the Pledge are bound to be less useful than those that are not. I would not, as you have done, single out the ALP on this, however – even if the Pledge did originate there.

]]> By: Penny Sharpe http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157804 Penny Sharpe Tue, 26 May 2009 01:43:15 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157804 Thanks for your input and thanks to Susan for asking me to contribute. Final comments: For Philip, Andrew and "Josh": If you want to have a debate about collective decision making, caucus solidarity, why crossing the floor is a no no in the Labor Party and why I don't think it is necessary for the mainstream media and individual voters to know every time I disagree with the Premier or the cabinet then that's a blog for another day. What I would say is that government decision making is a far more complex process than described by the mainstream media, our most world weary mainstream commentators and cynical online stirrers. It's definitely not perfect and nor can it ever be when the decisions that governments make have to balance a range of competing interests and competing priorities. Put simply - you can't please all of the people all of the time. Government's can however do much much better. There is a great desire for people to have input into the decisions that they care about. I also believe that there is a need for governments to be open to embracing a good idea that could come from outside mainstream policy advice. There are good examples around the world that show how Web 2.0 is empowering individuals to have a say and put up their good ideas - if governments and public sector organisations provide the tools. This is something that I will continue to work on into the future. Thanks for your input and thanks to Susan for asking me to contribute. Final comments:

For Philip, Andrew and “Josh”: If you want to have a debate about collective decision making, caucus solidarity, why crossing the floor is a no no in the Labor Party and why I don’t think it is necessary for the mainstream media and individual voters to know every time I disagree with the Premier or the cabinet then that’s a blog for another day.

What I would say is that government decision making is a far more complex process than described by the mainstream media, our most world weary mainstream commentators and cynical online stirrers. It’s definitely not perfect and nor can it ever be when the decisions that governments make have to balance a range of competing interests and competing priorities. Put simply – you can’t please all of the people all of the time.

Government’s can however do much much better. There is a great desire for people to have input into the decisions that they care about. I also believe that there is a need for governments to be open to embracing a good idea that could come from outside mainstream policy advice. There are good examples around the world that show how Web 2.0 is empowering individuals to have a say and put up their good ideas – if governments and public sector organisations provide the tools. This is something that I will continue to work on into the future.

]]> By: josh lyman http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157803 josh lyman Mon, 25 May 2009 04:10:57 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157803 Thanks Penny for the guest post. Penny doesn't mention it, but there must be something to the fact that 5 of her 12 up-to-date websites are from the 4 Greens and Gordon Moyes - all upper house crossbenchers. Penny: I think part of the limiting problem you face is that you're not even allowed to publicly take a stand different from the Cabinet any more - even to the extent of saying "I'll take up X cause within my party room" - if it's remotely controversial. Peter Garrett, to his credit, tried this tack early on but the media and political culture forced him back into the box. Thus while you may well take up a constituency's cause, you can't really tell them unless you win. The spin culture also does not allow for a serious discussion about the nuances of policy decisions by politicians. So again, you're so constrained about what you can say - unlike crossbenchers and independents. That's one of the reaons why they sound more real, honest and in touch to the punters. I don't know what you can do about that! Thanks Penny for the guest post.

Penny doesn’t mention it, but there must be something to the fact that 5 of her 12 up-to-date websites are from the 4 Greens and Gordon Moyes – all upper house crossbenchers.

Penny: I think part of the limiting problem you face is that you’re not even allowed to publicly take a stand different from the Cabinet any more – even to the extent of saying “I’ll take up X cause within my party room” – if it’s remotely controversial. Peter Garrett, to his credit, tried this tack early on but the media and political culture forced him back into the box. Thus while you may well take up a constituency’s cause, you can’t really tell them unless you win.

The spin culture also does not allow for a serious discussion about the nuances of policy decisions by politicians. So again, you’re so constrained about what you can say – unlike crossbenchers and independents. That’s one of the reaons why they sound more real, honest and in touch to the punters. I don’t know what you can do about that!

]]> By: Andrew Reynolds http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157802 Andrew Reynolds Mon, 25 May 2009 03:28:49 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157802 Penny, I think that part of the reason why the US pollies tend to have a more active presence online is that their participation in the democratic processes is more visible. Unlike the system here that sees crossing the floor as a major career limiting move it is something that individual congressmen and senators do as a matter of course over there - so online and other activity to correspond with constituents can actually strongly influence the likely voting pattern of the individual member. Here it acts as a possible conduit into the party room, which then either accepts the decision of the Leader or takes a very brave step of rolling him or her. While individual constituents have a chance to be heard through these processes, there is much less likelihood that their views will actually affect the way you, or any other member, actually votes on the floor of the house. Penny,
I think that part of the reason why the US pollies tend to have a more active presence online is that their participation in the democratic processes is more visible. Unlike the system here that sees crossing the floor as a major career limiting move it is something that individual congressmen and senators do as a matter of course over there – so online and other activity to correspond with constituents can actually strongly influence the likely voting pattern of the individual member.
Here it acts as a possible conduit into the party room, which then either accepts the decision of the Leader or takes a very brave step of rolling him or her.
While individual constituents have a chance to be heard through these processes, there is much less likelihood that their views will actually affect the way you, or any other member, actually votes on the floor of the house.

]]> By: philip travers http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157801 philip travers Sun, 24 May 2009 03:54:09 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157801 The problem with Evan's input is that the human being who has a public title of MP. etc. may not for a variety of reasons,all human,and nothing to do with the role, have an incapacity to actually work through the various options of actions by legislation in proffered opinion , that may all be well presented,but evolve around circumstances that are unknowables. That is, like the Climate Change Debate.Even with much participation even detailed sets of responses,rather than briefs, from a politician, the end result maybe, that the sitting member is likeable,and that is the only thing that is agreed upon in the sitting members electorate,whereas the issue of interest passionately held.. .maybe outside the electorate as legal entity etc.So coal mine extraction,coal fired power stations etc. certainly only as some type of consumer of electricity is the only direct interest.If someone is bubbling on about reducing Greenhouse gases Nationally, are they genuine if the price or bill for electricity goes up,and is outside the legislated workables of a sitting member!? It is just too simple to think the problem of Web participation resolves these problems,whereas, they maybe much simpler technically and financially,but, the sitting members Party Unity prefers a talented PR approach as obsfucation. The problem with Evan’s input is that the human being who has a public title of MP. etc. may not for a variety of reasons,all human,and nothing to do with the role, have an incapacity to actually work through the various options of actions by legislation in proffered opinion , that may all be well presented,but evolve around circumstances that are unknowables. That is, like the Climate Change Debate.Even with much participation even detailed sets of responses,rather than briefs, from a politician, the end result maybe, that the sitting member is likeable,and that is the only thing that is agreed upon in the sitting members electorate,whereas the issue of interest passionately held.. .maybe outside the electorate as legal entity etc.So coal mine extraction,coal fired power stations etc. certainly only as some type of consumer of electricity is the only direct interest.If someone is bubbling on about reducing Greenhouse gases Nationally, are they genuine if the price or bill for electricity goes up,and is outside the legislated workables of a sitting member!? It is just too simple to think the problem of Web participation resolves these problems,whereas, they maybe much simpler technically and financially,but, the sitting members Party Unity prefers a talented PR approach as obsfucation.

]]> By: Evan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157800 Evan Sun, 24 May 2009 01:59:52 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157800 I'm not surprised at the findings of Penny's audit. Unfortunately the Australian experience has been that our pollies tend to engege as little as possible with the punters, except when it comes to campaign time. There are many potential reasons for this. Perhaps they're too busy with the business of Parliament, committees or their portfolios (should they have one). Perhaps they couldn't be bothered. Little wonder that the punters regard pollies of all stripes as out-of-touch, at best. This opinion would no doubt be improved if said pollies would engage a bit more with the people they represent. And I don't mean websites full of glossy Party propaganda or appearances on the morning show. I mean discussing policy and taking people's views on it; Explaining why, for example, this policy position is preferable to that one (whether it be a policy concerning coal-fired power stations, prison reform or egg marketing). The web is ideal for this. It'll be a whole lot of work. And sure, there is the risk of insults, abuse and the like, no doubt. But in my view people will be a whole lot more inclined to support a pollie if they realise that he or she is not just some seat-warming hack, but someone who will listen and respond to their concerns (however ill informed) on the issues of the day. And if those concerns are indeed ill-informed, perhaps the pollie could take the time to explain to the poor sod why. That way both he or she and the punter get something from the exchange. Maybe I'm just dreamin'. I’m not surprised at the findings of Penny’s audit. Unfortunately the Australian experience has been that our pollies tend to engege as little as possible with the punters, except when it comes to campaign time.

There are many potential reasons for this. Perhaps they’re too busy with the business of Parliament, committees or their portfolios (should they have one). Perhaps they couldn’t be bothered.

Little wonder that the punters regard pollies of all stripes as out-of-touch, at best.

This opinion would no doubt be improved if said pollies would engage a bit more with the people they represent. And I don’t mean websites full of glossy Party propaganda or appearances on the morning show.

I mean discussing policy and taking people’s views on it; Explaining why, for example, this policy position is preferable to that one (whether it be a policy concerning coal-fired power stations, prison reform or egg marketing).

The web is ideal for this.

It’ll be a whole lot of work. And sure, there is the risk of insults, abuse and the like, no doubt.

But in my view people will be a whole lot more inclined to support a pollie if they realise that he or she is not just some seat-warming hack, but someone who will listen and respond to their concerns (however ill informed) on the issues of the day. And if those concerns are indeed ill-informed, perhaps the pollie could take the time to explain to the poor sod why. That way both he or she and the punter get something from the exchange.

Maybe I’m just dreamin’.

]]> By: Ginja http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157799 Ginja Sat, 23 May 2009 10:40:26 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157799 ...that last sentence wasn't very artfully put, but you know what I mean. …that last sentence wasn’t very artfully put, but you know what I mean.

]]> By: Ginja http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157798 Ginja Sat, 23 May 2009 09:16:54 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/23/guest-post-politicians-and-web-20/#comment-157798 The great selling point for greater use of the web by pollies is efficiency. Contrary to popular belief, our politicians do work hard, and if they can respond to issues on the web quickly - or get a sense of community feeling via blogs - more time can be spent thinking deep policy thoughts and governing the country. Blogs can also be good for getting a sense of the "base" (horrible Americanism) - especially how much your base is willing to put up with! Thanks for dropping by, Penny. The NSW Government has its share of problems, but Penny Sharpe is always out and about and working hard. Unfortunately there are lots of NSW Labor Parliamentarians like Penny Sharpe quietly doing their jobs - but they never get much media attention. The great selling point for greater use of the web by pollies is efficiency.

Contrary to popular belief, our politicians do work hard, and if they can respond to issues on the web quickly – or get a sense of community feeling via blogs – more time can be spent thinking deep policy thoughts and governing the country.

Blogs can also be good for getting a sense of the “base” (horrible Americanism) – especially how much your base is willing to put up with!

Thanks for dropping by, Penny. The NSW Government has its share of problems, but Penny Sharpe is always out and about and working hard. Unfortunately there are lots of NSW Labor Parliamentarians like Penny Sharpe quietly doing their jobs – but they never get much media attention.

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