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	<title>Comments on: &quot;Harmonisation&quot;?  Or callous restriction?</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: moz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158602</link>
		<dc:creator>moz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Liam, if you assume that we must have more cars on the roads, which inevitably leads to more roads to put the more cars on as well as more buildings demolished to make way for more car parking, then yes, more disability permits do make sense. I don&#039;t make that assumption.

A more reasonable argument is that as we achieve our goal of fewer cars on the road we can afford to dedicate more space to disabled parking. That makes a little more sense to me, but I&#039;m inclined to the opposite view: as public transport gets better we will need fewer cars for people with disabilities. The one aspect of Sydney&#039;s taxi service I like is that most of the new permits are for disabled-accessible taxis. The rationale is stupid, but the practical effect is that people who need those taxis are finding it much easier to get around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liam, if you assume that we must have more cars on the roads, which inevitably leads to more roads to put the more cars on as well as more buildings demolished to make way for more car parking, then yes, more disability permits do make sense. I don&#8217;t make that assumption.</p>
<p>A more reasonable argument is that as we achieve our goal of fewer cars on the road we can afford to dedicate more space to disabled parking. That makes a little more sense to me, but I&#8217;m inclined to the opposite view: as public transport gets better we will need fewer cars for people with disabilities. The one aspect of Sydney&#8217;s taxi service I like is that most of the new permits are for disabled-accessible taxis. The rationale is stupid, but the practical effect is that people who need those taxis are finding it much easier to get around.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158601</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158601</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;reducing the numbers of permits is obviously a good idea&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s at all obvious, moz.
Getting away from the issue of disability permits as a rights issue &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt;, parking strikes me as far more a matter of efficiency in city planning: in the next decades we&#039;re going to have to deal more and more with the problem of urban car parking as a scarce resource. I&#039;m fond of congestion schemes, paid parking, and road tolling as a partial approach, but there should always be an equity aspect to it, ie. that the people who should be given priority access to a scarce resource---accessible parking space---should be the ones who have the most need of it and the least access to public alternatives.
The more cars on the road in total, the more disability parking permits there should be. Is that wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>reducing the numbers of permits is obviously a good idea</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s at all obvious, moz.<br />
Getting away from the issue of disability permits as a rights issue <i>per se</i>, parking strikes me as far more a matter of efficiency in city planning: in the next decades we&#8217;re going to have to deal more and more with the problem of urban car parking as a scarce resource. I&#8217;m fond of congestion schemes, paid parking, and road tolling as a partial approach, but there should always be an equity aspect to it, ie. that the people who should be given priority access to a scarce resource&#8212;accessible parking space&#8212;should be the ones who have the most need of it and the least access to public alternatives.<br />
The more cars on the road in total, the more disability parking permits there should be. Is that wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: moz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158600</link>
		<dc:creator>moz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 08:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158600</guid>
		<description>Mindy, it&#039;s a problem that can be solved easily by the holder: don&#039;t leave it in the car. So punishing them is reasonable in that sense. It would be good to start with more effective penalties for motorists, but I&#039;m not confident. At the very least permits should be a standard size and have a photo of the bearer on them.

The problem with punishing the driver is that we lack effective punishments. It&#039;s well established that fines, towing the car and removing the drivers license don&#039;t work very well to discourage habitual offenders. Perhaps those who misuse disabled parking permits are different, it would be nice to know.

lauredhel, reducing the numbers of permits is obviously a good idea. The problem of how to program the bureaucrazy to do it efficiently is one that I&#039;m not sure can be solved. But standardised permits with photos seems like a good start. I&#039;m guessing that they expect a large number of current holders not to reapply just because the hassle of faking it is more than people who don&#039;t really, really need them will put up with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mindy, it&#8217;s a problem that can be solved easily by the holder: don&#8217;t leave it in the car. So punishing them is reasonable in that sense. It would be good to start with more effective penalties for motorists, but I&#8217;m not confident. At the very least permits should be a standard size and have a photo of the bearer on them.</p>
<p>The problem with punishing the driver is that we lack effective punishments. It&#8217;s well established that fines, towing the car and removing the drivers license don&#8217;t work very well to discourage habitual offenders. Perhaps those who misuse disabled parking permits are different, it would be nice to know.</p>
<p>lauredhel, reducing the numbers of permits is obviously a good idea. The problem of how to program the bureaucrazy to do it efficiently is one that I&#8217;m not sure can be solved. But standardised permits with photos seems like a good start. I&#8217;m guessing that they expect a large number of current holders not to reapply just because the hassle of faking it is more than people who don&#8217;t really, really need them will put up with.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158599</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Leaving the permit in the car isn&#039;t a problem. The person driving the car using the permit if they don&#039;t need to is the problem in that scenario. Withdrawing the permit could make life almost impossible for the permit holder which is unfair if someone else has been using their permit improperly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leaving the permit in the car isn&#8217;t a problem. The person driving the car using the permit if they don&#8217;t need to is the problem in that scenario. Withdrawing the permit could make life almost impossible for the permit holder which is unfair if someone else has been using their permit improperly.</p>
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		<title>By: lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158598</link>
		<dc:creator>lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Moz: Currently there are reciprocal arrangements between States, and most will also accept a variety of overseas permits. Interstate travel is not the problem that&#039;s being solved. Read the government&#039;s Q&amp;A - it is specifically aimed at reducing the number of permit holders. They expect TABs to freak out at the figure of 800 000 - &lt;b&gt;800 000!&lt;/b&gt; permit holders. Why anyone would think that that number is absurdly excessive is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moz: Currently there are reciprocal arrangements between States, and most will also accept a variety of overseas permits. Interstate travel is not the problem that&#8217;s being solved. Read the government&#8217;s Q&amp;A &#8211; it is specifically aimed at reducing the number of permit holders. They expect TABs to freak out at the figure of 800 000 &#8211; <b>800 000!</b> permit holders. Why anyone would think that that number is absurdly excessive is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: moz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158597</link>
		<dc:creator>moz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And in case you&#039;re wondering, I&#039;ve never seen a disabled bicycle park (but I have seen quite a few disabled folk on bicycles). Not sure why that is, perhaps because cyclists normally get pretty darn good parking anyway, so it&#039;d be tricky to give better parking to cyclists with disabilities. But it would be nice.

Worst/funniest experience I&#039;ve had on a bike was taking my tandem recumbent trike along to an event so a bunch of blind people could ride on it. Which they mostly enjoyed. Some of the &quot;no, really, I can see shadows, I&#039;ll be fine&quot; ones also enjoyed driving it. The brake accessible from the rear seat was handy for them because it was enough fun that some of them felt the need to exaggerate the extent of their vision. Nothing quite like an &quot;I&#039;m not blind&quot; driver pointing you confidently at a white patch on a fence to induce panic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And in case you&#8217;re wondering, I&#8217;ve never seen a disabled bicycle park (but I have seen quite a few disabled folk on bicycles). Not sure why that is, perhaps because cyclists normally get pretty darn good parking anyway, so it&#8217;d be tricky to give better parking to cyclists with disabilities. But it would be nice.</p>
<p>Worst/funniest experience I&#8217;ve had on a bike was taking my tandem recumbent trike along to an event so a bunch of blind people could ride on it. Which they mostly enjoyed. Some of the &#8220;no, really, I can see shadows, I&#8217;ll be fine&#8221; ones also enjoyed driving it. The brake accessible from the rear seat was handy for them because it was enough fun that some of them felt the need to exaggerate the extent of their vision. Nothing quite like an &#8220;I&#8217;m not blind&#8221; driver pointing you confidently at a white patch on a fence to induce panic.</p>
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		<title>By: Moz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158596</link>
		<dc:creator>Moz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We need harmonisation so that when people with disabilities go on holiday their permits still work.

Personally, I like to rub their noses in my mobility and athleticism by never using any car park, let alone a disabled one. So I lock my bike up as close to my destination as I can. To make the point that I can park even closer than they can.

One thing that does come up is people who have the permit but no car - they get the permit so that whoever usually provides their transport can park in disabled spots. Which is fine at those times. But there&#039;s a real temptation to leave the permit in the car... and so convenient too. Unfortunately the only real response to that is to withdraw the permit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need harmonisation so that when people with disabilities go on holiday their permits still work.</p>
<p>Personally, I like to rub their noses in my mobility and athleticism by never using any car park, let alone a disabled one. So I lock my bike up as close to my destination as I can. To make the point that I can park even closer than they can.</p>
<p>One thing that does come up is people who have the permit but no car &#8211; they get the permit so that whoever usually provides their transport can park in disabled spots. Which is fine at those times. But there&#8217;s a real temptation to leave the permit in the car&#8230; and so convenient too. Unfortunately the only real response to that is to withdraw the permit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158595</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158595</guid>
		<description>Grumphy - I should have used some smiley icon or other. Was assuming that the whinging sense of able-bodied motorist entitlement came through loudly enough to be seen as tongue-in-cheek.

It &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; very annoying to not be allowed to use the only park left, when no disabled drivers may be along for hours, but I&#039;ll take that and my working legs any time over the alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grumphy &#8211; I should have used some smiley icon or other. Was assuming that the whinging sense of able-bodied motorist entitlement came through loudly enough to be seen as tongue-in-cheek.</p>
<p>It <i>is</i> very annoying to not be allowed to use the only park left, when no disabled drivers may be along for hours, but I&#8217;ll take that and my working legs any time over the alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158594</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158594</guid>
		<description>FDB @ 20 - Sorry. From what I&#039;ve experienced it pretty similar in Adelaide and Canberra, but as you say it may just be a perception thing where you&#039;re more likely to notice the parks you can&#039;t use when the rest of the car park is full. And the peak times for disabled parking may be different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FDB @ 20 &#8211; Sorry. From what I&#8217;ve experienced it pretty similar in Adelaide and Canberra, but as you say it may just be a perception thing where you&#8217;re more likely to notice the parks you can&#8217;t use when the rest of the car park is full. And the peak times for disabled parking may be different.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumphy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158593</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/05/31/harmonisation-or-callous-restriction/#comment-158593</guid>
		<description>Not sure how sensible it is to be envious of the &#039;convenience&#039; of one&#039;s legs not working properly, which is really what PWD parking space envy boils down to :/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how sensible it is to be envious of the &#8216;convenience&#8217; of one&#8217;s legs not working properly, which is really what PWD parking space envy boils down to :/</p>
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