<img src=" http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/xr8ute_blokes1.jpg"
Apparently, the end of the world is at hand. Kevin Rudd borrowed a ute off a bloke. Or something. It’s a scandal! Apparently. Although, why the *fair slice of the Pineapple* PM isn’t receiving high praise for driving such a *dinkum* Aussie vehicle from those who were loudly denouncing him only last week, over their lattes, for his Quinceland vernacular, I don’t know.
But… at Libertarian Central, Christian Kerr‘s second favourite blog (after Club Troppo), they’re all in high dudgeon:
These are extraordinarily serious allegations and, on the news I have seen, it doesn’t look good at all.
Orly?
It gets worse. Poor KRudd. Will he withstand these incomprehensible *though terribly serious* allegations? OMG!
Kevin Rudd will not survive if it is firmly established that he—or even his office—made special pleadings for car-dealer mate John Grant. It is undoubtedly his greatest crisis in politics.
New York Scores Club much?
The kiss of death though – “The Punch [has] more.”
Srsly?
Right, that’s it. Refuse supply! The GG should sack him! Hang on she’s some sort of vaguely liberal vaguely feminist upper class Queensland Barrister… Quick, appeal to Her Maj!
Don’t blame me for this nonsense. I’m just the piano player.
Well that was fun.
But it’s not about the ute. The allegation, as I understand it, is that Kevin Rudd and/or Wayne Swan used their influence to help a friend get access to public moneys and that they then mislead Parliament about it.
Why it is OK to lie to the voters but not to Parliament is a mystery to me, but apparently it’s a you-must-resign no-no.
On the surface this is Rudd’s AWB scandal. Usually a takes a few years to work up a stink like this.
s/moneys/monies/
Right, Jacques. The said allegation has been denied. So please explain it in such a way that one can actually understand what it is. The way it’s been put by the opposition hardly makes it clear.
Let’s be honest about this. This is a pre-emptive strike because Labor is about to dump a huge bucket of dirt on Talcum now that we know he’ll be the leader into the next election. AIG, etc. We’ve already had the strangling the ex-girlfriend’s cat story get an airing.
Can’t we do better than this?
It’s just ridiculous to say that Kevin Rudd would lose the Prime Ministership over this. Even if it were true. Which it most probably isn’t, at least in the sense that there’s been any impropriety.
Are we going to have tit for tat beat ups of pointless gallery rumours for the next year and a half as the stable of Australian political discourse? Yay for the quality debate we have in this country on the big issues!
Kevin Rudd could shoot a kitten in the face and LP would make a post like this laughing it off.
Your boy got caught handing out government money to his mates. The fact that this is the only thing LP has yet posted about the scandal speaks volumes.
Nobody cares about the ute – its the fact that he’s giving out favours to his mates with government money and then lying about it to parliament thats getting him in trouble.
Agreed Yobbo (although let’s face it, Rudd is very likely to be innocent of all these charges). It’s this kind of post that exposes Kim as a hopelessly un-principled and partisan ALP booster (at least when there’s not a real left-wing position to be taken, for example by reference to Greens policy).
Apparently alleged corruption isn’t a ‘big issue’ (good to see Kim aligning herself with all sorts of crooks who have, over the years, sought to deflect attention from their unethical and indefensible behaviour on the basis that it doesn’t really concern the punters).
BBB
PS In all seriousness Kim, had you been drinking heavily before writing this? It seems more than a little ironic that you’ve accused others of being ‘incomprehensible’ on this.
“Your boy got caught handing out government money to his mates.”
As did Howard to his brother’s failing company.
Yah sayin’ we shouldn’t look after our mates?
Yobbo
Your boy got caught handing out government money to his mates.
Wrong, I watched the senate hearing yesterday and in noway did Grant benefit or get any funds from Ozcar. Both Ford and the Treasurery Dept. said that he ended up gaining a company willing to finance cars to customers on his own.
Kim is right, in noway will Rudd be brought down by this. He’s too confident of being right and already knows that the A-G will find him and his office innocent. There is also something fishy about the lack of this email Steve Lewis has written about. If such a email exists then why hasn’t it been produced?
One thing I’m not sure of is Grech from the treasurery dept., he seems to have changed his story around a bit yesterday. On one hand he said he felt terrible being put in that position and was embarrassed walking into work yesterday after the story was made public, and then it was found out that he was the person whom Lewis got his information from.
Then he said that he thinks he read a email from the PMO, but that maybe false, then he said at the end of the hearing under questioning that he didn’t receive an email from the PMO.
The papers today have only quoted the first quote without quoting the retraction from Grech.
Steve Lewis needs to name the person who “read” him this email, so we can then get to the bottom of if this email really exists.
And all based on a fake email – too funny to take seriously.
All those saying Rudd is going to go down for this are just kidding themselves. There’s virtually no chance he’s guilty. He’s a basically decent bloke. And far too smart.
BBB
It is a pretty funny story. I was reading somewhere in the nether regions of the ‘tubes someone comparing this to the AWB scandal. Methinks the Libs may be over-reaching.
At worst this is some shameless pork-barrelling. At best it’s a non-issue designed to distract from the upcoming emission trading vote. My bet is that it is somewhere in between. That is, a junior staffer in Rudd’s office may have enquired about whether Grant was eligible for these funds an also dropped the fact that he is a friend of KRudd. There may have been an email, there may not have been. Who cares.
Surely if you were going to plant evidence such as faking an email, you’d fake something more credible?
I can easily imagine the ‘delete’ key being hit, the cache being emptied and the laptop stowed under a mattress or more likely, flung into the Lake on a cold and misty Canberra night. While meanwhile at the ball . . . But there are ways of retreating such emails from the server aren’t there? So do that. Frankly I couldn’t give a tinker’s cuss if the Ruddster went this way, unjust as it may seem. That means Gillard becomes PM and we go to an election. Doesn’t it?? Talcum vs Gillard. Oooh what fun. On with the show I say.
I think the accusation is that Kevin Rudd misled parliament. Over what isn’t really the issue.
MH
Hence why this so called email should be produced, no one has seen it.
Caroline
…you’d fake something more credible?
You’d think so, but Phamplet gate is one stupid thing that comes to mind and the SA State Libs trying to pass off a fake email as genuine is another. There is precendents of uncredible stupid acts by the libs.
Hey!
All you drowning Liberals!
There’s a straw!
Grab hold of it!
It’ll save youse!
uncredible = incredible. Sheesh
Just watch the MSM (including ABC) sweep under the carpet the fact that for all this ‘doing of favours’ this car dealer was knocked back for money from this scheme. If Rudd or Swan were guilty of trying to gain a favour for a friend it doesn’t seem to have got them very far.
Lets remember that during the Fuelwatch hoohaa a WA Liberal senator ,away at a meeting all day and unaware that the Coalition had voted to oppose Fuelwatch, was asked at a doorstop at Parliament what she thought of the scheme. She said she thought it was a good scheme and that it would be a good thing to trial in the rest of the country. This recieved no coverage on 7 and 9, was referred to only deep in a C.Kerr piece in the Oz and was not mentioned at all in the Age. What little mention it did recieve was totally absent in any subsequent narrative as Nielson thundered on and the MSM declared that Rudd and Labor were ‘taking hits’ over this issue.
It isn’t “shameless pork-barreling” nor is it “govt money for mates” nor is it “storm in a teacup”.
It is “misleading parliament”. (Think Nixon/Watergate)
If the email is kosher (IF) Rudd doesn’t have the exit Hawke used, Hansard “discovering” it made a “mistake”. Rudd’s position is on parliamentary TV, right there in techincolour.
He doesn’t seem so confident the email is fake (in his position I’d be wondering too), and most tellingly, Lindsay Tanner on Lateline pussyfooted most adroitly around adhering himself to the PM and actually saying “no” to the question “has the PM misled parliament?”
If there was no email and you hadn’t misled Parliament and it was all a load of tosh, it would be more prudent not to request an Auditor General’s Inquiry even if you imagined your integrity to be at stake. Your innocence and your integrity would shine through in the long run, if there was nothing hanging over them in the first place.
If there’s a smoking email here, the AG will find it. It’s virtually impossible to completely erase all trace of such a communication if it was made. It would’ve been relayed through multiple servers, auto-backed up through various systems etc., especially with regard to the PM’s Office.
Furthermore, such a juicy bit of communication would’ve been kept somewhere, by someone with an axe to grind. In fact, the temptation for some will be overwhelming to try and trick something up that looks like incriminating evidence, and tender it. The AG will have their work cut out:
1) Locating the elusive item (a bit like Loch Ness Monster, methinks)
2) If something is found, authenticating it beyond reasonable doubt that it’s not a framed or tricked-up message.
If the email ever existed as alleged, evidence of it will be found.
Actually, if the story was substantiated, I’d like to see Rudd go — I’ve always thought he’s a better man with higher standards than the riff-raff he replaced, and resigning would show that he is. Howard and Downer refused to go after presiding over a government that gave $300 million to our sworn enemy, and other juicy subsidies for his brother’s ethanol company. It would show real honour on Rudd’s part to resign over a matter of impropriety as minor as this, if it is substantiated.
But only if the smoking email is found, of course. All of which means Julia will be PM after that, so Kerr should be careful what he wishes for…
…And if the evidence isn’t found, then Kerr and the Catallaxy crew will turn it in to the next Heiner non-affair and try and run it to the next election. Thin gruel to sustain them until mid-2010, don’tcha think?
I would be astonished if the alleged email ever existed. I think what’s happened here is that the Treasury Official Grech is having a deer-in-the-headlights moment. It’s finally occurred to him that all that public service gossip around the water-cooler, and the loose talk and bitching that goes with it, has to either be substantiated, or they have to stop the gossip. That’s why he’s suddenly all so uncertain. He’s realised his bit of idle gossip has a sharp edge that cuts both ways.
Yawn. Meanwhile, climate change and the fatally flawed CPRS disappears from the headlines with Wong’s lies and distortions about it fading into the background.
Wow. Some possible pork barrelling and some possible porkies – based on no confirmed evidence.
Versus the end of the world as we know it.
I can’t help thinking we are doomed.
The Money Quote from the Opposition Organ:
Here is a man who is responsible for $2b taxpayers’ funds, who claims that he may have once been in possession of the most explosive document of the Rudd Ministry, and who seems to have lost his copy!
And the Opposition Organ gives credence to his claims!
Mr Grech should be reassigned to filing duties in the Gympie office.
The Opposition Organ should award itself the Order of Lenin for services to black propaganda.
Next.
I’m not sure I understand the situation correctly, and while I’m not going to scoff at the possibility that something inappropriate has taken place, it does seem like a lot rests on hearsay and what certain people felt to be the case. An auditor general’s inquiry sounds like a good place to go next to uncover some solid evidence if there’s any to be found. Rudd looks rattled, though – at least in the footage I’ve seen. It would be a shame for him to go over something small, but I’m with Mercurius as to the appropriate action if these accusations are borne out with real evidence.
A prime minister resigning always livens things up and with a split round of AFL football I enjoyed the diversion. But of course Mr Rudd isn’t going to resign. Personally I would believe a civil servant over the PM any day of the week, and I had no high expectations of Mr Rudd to begin with. Just because a fellow is leading the ALP doesn’t mean he has higher standards of ethics then the Libs- in politics, the scum rises to the top. Sad but true.
No, the aspect to the story that surprised me is that the PM’s office should have done something like this in such a way that could lead a paper trail. It seems like a pretty elementary blunder to have made. A phone call could have done the job and is so easy to deny.
Rudd would have called in the Auditor General only after receiving categorical and iron clad assurances from his adviser Andrew Charlton that he did not send the alleged email. If the email turns up on a server somewhere, and there has to be a permanent record of every email sent from the Prime Minister’s Office, then Charlton will certainly be dead meat. Rudd may be able to claim that he was misled by his adviser and that will be that. Or maybe not.
But presumably Rudd will not have called in the AG unless he is 100% confident that there is no email to be found, because if it is there, the AG will find it. If it turns out that way, then someone forged an email from the PM’s adviser to the Treasury, itself worthy of investigation.
If a genuine email is found, then I would not want to be Andrew Charlton.
“incomprehensible *though terribly serious* allegations? OMG!”
Malcolm Turnbull described it as “grave” last night on the news.
You have to wonder how he can crank up any more outrage should something come up similar to AWB, Children Overboard, Howard using our money to bail out his brother’s business, Peter Reith’s card and the list goes on. Maybe he’ll have to wheel out “catastrophic” next time Labor fails to declare a packet of iced Vo-Vos.
His demeanour when answering questions was weird too. Abetz was homing into the point of “evidence” with fervour and a touch of glee. Grech was teasing him a bit, squirming a bit, not looking at anyone, delivering a few more crumbs with each question. Was Abetz looking for something he knew was there, or did he just smell blood?
Either way, if this is the best politics can do for us (along with all the right wing hacks engaging in relentless green bashing and woman bashing over the ‘baby in the house’ issue yesterday), it is little wonder that most people think that politics stinks.
Helen, if the AWB Iraq kickbacks and Children Overboard are considered serious, then I suggest you broaden your social circle.
Neither will the “ute affair” be considered serious.
Those on this forum (they number plenty) who have a bent for the legalistic, rather than the actual, (ie, those who would blithely say the sun shines at night if a law or legal precedent said so) know this is about misleading parliament, the “nearest thing to a Capital Offence” in parliament. (quote by Tony Abbott)
1. Yesterday, one news paper/source (?Fairfax) pointed out that Rudd stated “I have been informed …” – as a watcher of that particular QT, I can confirm that he did (BTW it will be verbatim in Hansard) – which precludes the PM’s “misleading” Parliament, since he was reading from a document & used his words very carefully. Given the way Howard wriggled out of a decade & more of scandals, this is small beer indeed.
2. The more juicy question, given the email couldn’t be found on Mr Grech’s computer (& it should have been if it had been sent) is the email’s origin since, apparently, computers revealed it hadn’t come from the PM or his office, and the dealer in question states in Canberra chat no longer safe: John Grant
3. The (possibly) fake email started an avalanche of activity which added fuel to the Opposition’s fire; however, if this was the (possible) email faker’s intention, then this is a huge matter, as conspiracy to mislead – Parliament, the PM, the leader of the Opposition etc etc – is a very serious matter, even if it had stopped at the original email; but it didn’t. It could have led to the payment of Commonwealth monies/moneys (both plurals are accepted); it has led to the impugnment of the reputations of members of the Australian parliament, inc senior members (PM, Treasurer) and compromised those of public servants – very serious matters indeed.
If it’s fake & the perpetrator revealed, I hope everyone sues!
If the original “email” (which may have existed only as a hard copy) is fake, there’s at least a movie – Watergate in reverse, All the Opposition Leader’s Smart Alecks perhaps – or a whole TV series.
Then there’s the (not so) little matter of Malcolm’s compromising behaviour at the Midwinter Ball. There’s a lead to the transcript pdf @ http://www.theage.com.au/national/turnbull-bullied-pms-staffer-swan-20090619-cn8c.html
I believe that the Daily Telegraph has published the phantom email (did I hear that correctly?) but don’t have time to look.
I don’t agree that Charlton is dead meat if the email is found. It is actually fair enough for him to let Grech know that the ute man was no ordinary constituent. It alerts Grech that he needs to give the application fair consideration and not stuff up on it.
If Charlton asked Grech to give it favourable consideration then he’s dead meat and deserves to be. But that still doesn’t implicate Rudd.
Most people in the press have no idea how much detail these guys have to deal with in a day, how often they have to change focus, and how little time is spent on each task. If something becomes of interest to the media then they think that much more time and consideration has been given to it than is usually physically possible.
That something of this triviality would be checked with Rudd in the normal transactions of the day beggars belief.
Jacques, giving kickbacks to Saddam Hussein’s regime is of the same order as borrowing an old ute for campaigning?
Aren’t we all getting sick of the constant attempts by News Ltd to pin something – anything – on Rudd? Strippergate, Brian Burke, yelling at an air hostie, most sickening of all the Heiner inquiry, now this. Murdoch’s grubs have thrown everything at him.
All this tells us a lot more about Murdoch’s papers and the Liberal Party (which are the same thing) than Rudd.
And Turnbull’s Spycatcher routine is just ridiculous.
They did the same thing with Keating and Latham. As happens in the US – see Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry – if your right-wing economic policies are deeply unpopular with most of the electorate, the only option you have is to smear your opponent’s character.
BBB@6, I find that kind of comment completely unacceptable. The post is colloquial, not drunken. If you disagree with someone but you haven’t got any better argument than to claim they are drinking “heavily”, I don’t see why they should do you the courtesy of allowing to comment on their space. I can imagine your puffing indignation if a comment like that was made to you. I’ll be scrutinising your grammar, sentence construction and logical flow closely, especially at weekends, because we wouldn’t want people commenting while not completely sober, that is, if they criticise others for it.
Good to see you posting again Kim.
It’ll all blow over. The whole thing seems built on supposition and hearsay. No-one can find the inccrininating email and it wouldn’t be that hard if it existed. The Canberra journos can get in a fizz about it. People wan’t realy care. I did feel sorry for Grech, though. He seemed really shaken an upset. We also have Swan saying that Turnbull threatened a staffer about it at the Winter Ball. I reckon they won’t have another of these Balls – what with this and the Liberal staffer groping women, it seems very out of control.
By requesting an AG’s investigation on the basis of this issue being an attack on his integrity, Rudd hasn’t left himself much room to move. He’s going to be very on the nose if an email does surface and it all suddenly becomes the fault of an adviser, when he was so adamant in Parliament.
Is Andrew Charlton the not quite thirty year old, who growed up under 11 years in a culture dominated by a lying rodent? There was a time under the rat when brazen lies were seen as perfectly acceptable for reasons of expedience (or personal gain.) Yes yes old folk lie to, witness aforementioned rodent.
Didn’t Mally threaten someone at the ball? Seems a bit out of character unless . . .
This is fun! Ute-gate how very Ostraylian.
howard lies about kids being thrown overboard, which is plain evil, and the fucking conservatives get into a hissy fit over this shit. Australian politics is a joke.
As happens in the US – see Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry – if your right-wing economic policies are deeply unpopular with most of the electorate, the only option you have is to smear your opponent’s character.
That’s a very good point. Of course, Clinton did give them a lot of ammunition, but Rudd’s more intelligent – or less disaster prone – than that.
Well said Helen@36 and great to see Kim back. Mr Boingo is way out of line.
Actually the vehicle in question was a Mazda, not a Ford as indicated in the accompanying pic.
Crikey is using the common naming convention and referring to this beatup as Utegate – shouldn’t it be “Tailgate”?
Try the veal it’ll be here all night.
Even if the email wasn’t a scam Rudd has not mislead parliament. He said as they all do…that as far as he was advised…
But the person who wrote this tosh sentence might find himself in court room 9
‘the fact that he’s giving out favours to his mates with government money and then lying about it’
Even a real email wouldn’t support this liable.
The mail is fake, it never existed.
It is extremely difficult to delete evidence of an email or cover up that one did exists and was overwritten with 0101010. Even that type of activity would be evident. And we are talking about copies on the senders and receivers end. Two bodies have examined the govt servers/computers – nothing ever existed. There was and could have been no email.
And of course the text of the email itself ought to be enough to demonstrate that it is a fake. From the nature of the content – mentioning the PM.. and the way it was addressed and signed off.
So the slander mongers ought to can it.
The big question is how much money will Rudd make suing all these people?
so many inaccuracies in reporting this non-story.Please at least get the story straight. A Mazda not an Aussie car but depends where it was made. Showing a pic of a brand new ute implies something else. Replies are ignoring the fact that no money was obtained by Mr Grant or for that matter any favour granted. Every citizen has the right to contact an MP and that includes the former PM’s brother who was bailed out with public money. The Opposition are on a belting to no-where with this beat-up. It reeks of the ComCar/Justice Kirby fake records but will Turnbull apologise ?
There was and could NOT have been no email.
Darn…still got it wrong.
‘There was and could NOT have been an email.
If the email exists, and did originate from a hard drive on anything linked to a Federal department or agency, it can found, and its provenance and subsequent trajectories established. Abbott’s remarks about a conspiracy to not find it are ridiculous. If it was sent – it’s there. Somewhere.
If it was sent. If it was sent on Swan’s or Rudd’s behest. If it can be proved that Grech acted on a directive from either Swan or Rudd, or someone within their respective offices who also acted on a directive from either Rudd or Swan.
I would also suggest that if the Daily Tel or any other media outlet is releasing emails, there is a question to be answered as to such a breach.
Turnbull wants to undercut Rudd’s perception with the Aust electorate on being honest and straightforward. This is not about proving that Rudd misled parliament – pleeeze – it’s about sowing the seeds of doubt in the voters’ minds about Rudd’s trustworthiness.
Rudd also raised the issue of partisanship or otherwise within APS ranks:
“If I’ve tried to establish a core principle since we’ve come to government, it’s the independence of the public service. We respect that,” Mr Rudd said.
“Remember when we took office we kept every head of department. [When] our predecessors took office they bulleted at least half a dozen of them.”
There’s a rather unsubtle pointed reminder there – having lost one Minister of Defense in circumstances suggesting more than a hint of internal white-anting, he would be keen to remind one & all from departmental heads down that a return to Howard’s meddling with the APS can be easily achieved.
Did the Terrorgraph actually publish the email? I can’t find it in the on-line version & The Courier Mail didn’t print it.
What would be the legal position if it were published after it was established that a thorough check of computers showed:
No trace of it on Mr Grech’s
No trace on De Charlton’s
No trace on the PM’s or any of his staff’s
the PM publicly stated that it was fake and ordered an Auditor general’s inquiry?
This has the potential to be anywhere between a storm in a teacup and another Bottom of the Harbour affair.
However, the affair may be more devious than just nailing Rudd & Swann. There have been at least two cases, in very recent times, of Liberal either faking emails or running a blog for devious internal purposes:
1. There’s this effort ABC:PM Transcript
2. Premier accepts Liberal leader’s written apology on the same affair.
Then, in 2008, a couple of creative Victorian Liberal staffers’ efforts,
Victorian Liberal staffers sacked for blogging
Osborn, one of the two sacked, had his revenge, as reported by Australian Jewish News Liberal staffer sacked over anti-Semitic remarks
So I wouldn’t be at all surprised if someone (probable Liberal), knowing (after the SA & Vic affairs) how effectively and quickly emails can be traced, or, if none can be found, exposed as fakes, is actually trying to take down Turnbull.
Given the Liberals’ track record against their own political rivals as well as the ALP, both scenarios are possible!
“Your boy got caught handing out government money to his mates.”
Wrong, wrong, wrong. You going to apologise to the Prime Minister, Yobbo? Might be a good idea.
And what Helen said @32. Sometimes Mr Boingo gets carried away with his sense of self-importance, and fails to realise that he is a guest. A particularly ungracious one sometimes.
The libretards are terrified of a double dissolution. They cannot pass the ETS because the denialists have threatened to split. The retreat of the Smirk has removed one diversion.
So now they are going the boot in the groin. Trouble is the groin is really, really small.
Huggy
This is the best picture I could come up with, from Boingo Motors Central, of a genuine 1996 Mazda Bravo. Sold to you, now, for 8 grand with a new exhaust pipe.
http://photos.carsguide.news.com.au/drive_images/dealer/nqautowho/1417/1_600.jpg
How flash is that?
Of course Rudd could offer to resign if the AG investigation proved there was an email corroborating the allegations – IF – Malcolm Turnbull were to similarly offer to resign if the AG did not prove the allegations.
The ALP would win that one. If Rudd did go, then JG would still rip Malcolm’s tripes out over the rest of the Parliament. If MT went, however, who do the Libs have? Abbott? Costello? Hockey? Bishop (Juju or Bronny)? All of them as electable as AhMADinejad for next Pope.
Er… Marks, you may wish to review that last statement. There was a reason the federal ALP was placing extra large orders for Bowscot right up until Costello’s retirement announcement (upon which they cautiously broke out the champagne).
I’d be looking for Julia Gillard’s fingerprints on this one (IF it turns out to be real) If Rudd is knifed, odds on she orchestrated it.
I don’t know what Bowscot is SATP, but I think you’ve drawn a really long bow on that conspiracy theory.
Oh boy, of course Rudd is not going to resign. The point of the whole exercise is to (1) undercut the perception of honesty that Rudd is so keen to project. Done. (2) bury Ruddbank and similar schemes due to the perception that such schemes get abused by Labor and Labor’s mates. Done. (3) Destroy Wayne Swan’s credibility. Note that the e-mail may or may not be true but there is undisputed documentary evidence that the subsequent correspondence did go directly to Swan’s home fax (and to Ken Henry, I might add), a point directly contradicted by Swan in parliament. So, Swan is on thin ice here.
All in all, 3-0 to the Liberals then. Note that Turnbull is careful not to release the e-mail himself so even if it turns out to be fake (which it won’t, neither Trunbull nor grech are that dumb), it would not involve Malcolm. He did call for Rudd and Swan to resign – if they cannot explain the situation – but that is just so much rhetoric, only to be expected. So, no downside for the Liberals and all the upside.
And, oh, by the way, Rudd’s assertion that the e-mail does not exist cannot be taken seriously. You don’t seriously expect him to incriminate himself or his office, do you? The e-mail searches have not been independent: we cannot conclude one way or another about the e-mail and never will be I suspect.
Two things that has no attention in comments yet:
1. Katharine Murphy in The Age is claiming that the photo (appearing on the front page of the SMH) of Turnbell talking to Charlton was being shown around by Rudd on the night as a joke – that his staff was “consorting with the enemy”. It was only the next day that it became evidence of a “threat”. Gratton is also claiming that this talk of it being a threat is a beat up.
2. I don’t think any journalist has reminded us about on the way that Rudd seemed to over-react with indignation in Parliament when denying his office had any role in this. But I remember at the time a couple of people noted how his hands were shaking.
Was it because he knews how much danger this story represented?
All jokes aside,(because I just can’t take this seriously – its just politicians at play -) this won’t go anywhere near bringing Rudd down. So he made representations for some-one in his electorate. Isn’t that the basic reason poillies are elected for in a pepresentational democracy.
Secondly, if he did fib, well, he fibbed. John Winston Howard got away for telling far bigger and more dangerous lies for eleven years. So what if Howard didn’t lie in Parliament. He lied everywhere else. One of the refreshing things about Rudd and company was that they told the truth all the time and they kept their promiese. Now that’s a record I doubt Rudd or Swannie would lightly tarnish. On the basis of that assumption its propably the Libs and Rupert who are lying. Quelle Surprise!
Thing tat worries me is that Ruddy and Swanny seem to be treated with contempt by their own departments who gave the car dealer nothing. This is all very amusing but Rudd and Swan falling on their swords? Give us a break. I can’t see what is wrong with all this. Misleading Parliament? What a quaint concept Watch question time, it goes on everyday.
What are Mps for if not to ring and ask if they and do anything for you? I ring my local councilors from time to time to alert them to problems (last one was over my development application) They acted and found out what was happening. They sent emails to planning officers and so it went. Was that improper?
And that ute the PM has its a clapped out old second hand one as I understand it. And it is declared.
But the sport of all this is great. Seeing Malcolm all puffed up and self important is better than the comedy channel. And Rudd was triffic as the puzzled Pm just trying to clear things up. Swanny is just Swanny. The back story of groping staffers and verbal exchanges caught on the Pms Blackberry. You couldn’t make this up.
Great logic, Paul Burns: on the basis that I think they are honest, I don’t think they lied. Hmm.
‘It reeks of the ComCar/Justice Kirby fake records …’
Yes that was my spontaneous reaction too. The conservatives love this kind of thing … just ask Jackie Kelly.
Unfortunately forging emails is so easy a child can do it and it’s bound to become rife in future. Remarkably, many administrative agencies (including the police) seem as clueless as Ilya about emails and seem inclined to accept hard copies as proof and assume it’s impossible to find out whether they were ever actually sent by the person whose name appears on them.
Ilya I suggest you take the time to read a comments thread before adding your invaluable contributions. If you had, you would realise your observation was tripe. Or are you suggesting the Auditor General is corrupt?
This is what the conservatives and the MSM are reduced to: shrieks of feigned outrage and howls of deranged laughter over pissant matters that should not concern an adult for more than about 5 seconds.
And SATP you deserve some kind of award for that lunatic conspiracy theory. I always reserved judgement on whether deep down you were a sensible guy but you just resolved my doubts in spectacular fashion.
Ken, before dishing out abuse, note that just because I may not agree with other commenters here, does not mean my contribution is tripe. Free exchange of opinion, this is meant to be, eh? Funny, but I get the same sort of hysterical abuse at Bolt’s forum as well.
The AG has and will not come down with the results before July 31. So, no, I am not suggesting the AG is corrupt at all. To date, the email searches have been carried out by the PM’s office and the Treasury. These searches are not of course independent so we cannto conclude one way or another. The PMO and the Treasury do have a bias though.
Note also that as we speak, Turnbull has switched his attack onto Swan who is much more vulnerable and, has also denied any Liberal involvement in the circulation of the email. See my comments at #52 in this regard.
This is a win win fo the libs. Either the email exists thus RUdd is toast. Or worse it doesn’t exist allowing the Coalition to bang on about a cover up until Rudd is dismissed.
The dismissal narrative has been pushed by the Coalition and News Ltd since day one.
Face it lads. The election was held, the people voted the wrong guy in and News Ltd and the Coalition will help with the correction.
The only interesting thing to see is who will be the next PM? Abbott? Turnbull? Howard?
The initial email that doesn’t exist says, allegedly from andrew charlton’s computer , per the DT’s steve lewis’ story, says
Godwins reply, (which no-one seems to be denying, though how you get a reply to a non-existent original email is a bit of a puzzle), February 23 to Treasurer Wayne Swan and Department Liaison Officer (Economic) Andrew Thomas, says:
It couldn’t be that it’s a case of mistaken Andrews in High Places could it?
Ken Lovell, anytime you want to see a lunatic, just look in the mirror. Nothing you have every typed indicates you’re in possession of a full bag of marbles. No reservations required.
I repeat: If Rudd is ever forced out of his current job, when looking for a culprit for the downfall, don’t rule out Julia Gillard.
This is about preferential treatment for a mate? I thought the problem was that there were no B & S ball or Bundy stickers on the ute. A travesty for QLD folk if this is true.
(thanks to Mick for the Bundy line).
What amazes me is that Turnbull does his courtroom Spycatcher schtick about the PM needing to resign and the media falls for it. Well, if Malcolm says so it must be true.
The car dealer says he didn’t ask the PM for help, the public servant at the centre of this says he can’t be absolutely sure, Rudd’s staffer denies it, there are no records from Treasury or the PMO (and there are strict email logs at the PMO).
In any event, this isn’t a government contract we’re talking about. Everyone who is eligible can apply for Oz Car help.
The way the Canberra rumour mill works, what’s probably happened is that word has got around the bureucracy that the car dealer in question in an acquaintance of Rudd’s so make a special effort – without Rudd having much clue what was going on.
Compared with Howard holding special meetings with the Exclusive Bretheren, this is less than nothing.
I find it very hard to believe that Rudd and Swan would be denying the existence of the alleged email and any other incriminating evidence unless they knew absolutely that it didnt exist, or that at least its existence was impossible to prove. They just arent that stupid, as that really would amount to misleading the parliament. On the other hand, Turnbuckle is desperate to be PM – its his lifes ambition and he can see it slipping beyond his grasp. Under those circumstances I think he’ll try anything. The issue about internal divisions within the Liberals is very live too.
You’ve incorrectly described the situation. Swan and Rudd are accused of misleading Parliament. For reasons I do not understand this is seen as a truly grave sin.
Now, on to a new point. Why would Howard’s numerous fibs, fiddles and fidgets excuse Rudd? Whatever happened to “two wrongs don’t make a right”?
This case screams bullshit to me. Bullshit.
In most of my working career, I’ve had a full record of all email correspondence. Sometimes, the boss wanted to ask me questions about work six or months ago. Rather than racking my failing brain, I look up my notes and relevant emails. In a few cases, forwarding one or two old messages to him resolved the issue.
I don’t delete emails. I never have. I might back them up, but I never let them disappear. Because at the end of the day, I wanted my ass well and truly covered. I doubt that the cops would come knocking, but if they did – here’s an copy of everything I’ve done for the last X years. Have fun looking for naughtiness or impropriety.
This case begins (and ends) on the existence of the email – an email sent in the last two years to Godwin Grech, a Treasury official. He himself is not certain whether the email ever existed. I doubt that Treasury would let their own employees delete their emails without backup – but if they did, then they are negligent. There should be full records of all correspondence for the last X years for probity’s sake (where X > 10). If the auditors (or John Faulkner) come knocking, they should be able to find everything. Everything. Because memory is cheap, and there should be no excuse for correspondence to “disappear”.
But let’s say Treasury permits their employees to arbitrarily delete their emails without backup. Let’s also say that Grech deleted the email. Then he is a fool. For the same reasons as mine (what if the boss wants him to look up old work), but also because any public servant worth their salt would keep a full audit trail for probity and propriety.
The email may exist. But I doubt it.
Nothing to see here, but the conversation needs to be redirected to discussing why the opposition leader is such a gullible pillock.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/06/20/journalists-and-sources/
Rudd’s gone on the attack, saying straight out the email is a hoax and hinting that the Liberals are the perpetrators. He must be very confident of what the IT techies must be telling him.
I thought it might be worth linking (via Bernard Keane) to the documents Rudd released at his press conference last night (http changed to beat the spam filter):
hxxp://twitpic.com/7sfux
hxxp://twitpic.com/7sfxb
hxxp://twitpic.com/7sfyu
As is mentioned, even if the email was deleted they could still find it. I think the biggest issue is the possible misleading of parliament. I agree with Mercurius that it would be great for Rudd to demonstrate higher standards than Howard, i don’t particularly like the sight of lefties crowing that Rudd wont resign as Howard did so much worse.
I think the bigger issue here is possibly flying under the radar. The focus has been on Rudd’s possible misleading of the parliament, however there is more evidence that Swan may have mislead the house. On June 4th he said
but in the senate hearing it was revealed that there were faxes sent to Swan’s home about the dealings of treasury concerning mr Grant. Also, Godwin Grench, the treasury official who appeared yesterday, felt that Swan’s office implied that mr Grant was a special case. Once again the bigger problem i think is the possibility of parliament being mislead.
Just to make things clear, I wouldn’t be too sad if Rudd resigned over the issue (for misleading parliament). Irritated? Yes, if he resigned over something so relatively trivial (when Howard got away with AWB and the Iraq war). But if he needs to go – go. In the circumstances, could he take Penny Wong with him as well?
I tried to avoid the spam filter but it doesn’t seem to have worked.
Phil @ 66 has linked, essentially, to what i was trying to link to so here is the rest of my moderated post.
As has been mentioned, even if the email was deleted they could still find it. I think the biggest issue is the possible misleading of parliament. I agree with Mercurius that it would be great for Rudd to demonstrate higher standards than Howard, i don’t particularly like the sight of lefties crowing that Rudd wont resign as Howard did so much worse.
I think the bigger issue here is possibly flying under the radar. The focus has been on Rudd’s possible misleading of the parliament, however there is more evidence that Swan may have mislead the house. On June 4th he said
but in the senate hearing it was revealed that there were faxes sent to Swan’s home about the dealings of treasury concerning mr Grant. Also, Godwin Grench, the treasury official who appeared yesterday, felt that Swan’s office implied that mr Grant was a special case. Once again the bigger problem i think is the possibility of parliament being mislead.
‘I remember at the time a couple of people noted how his hands were shaking.’
God the internet exposes the triviality and mindlessness of so much everyday discourse in the cruellest possible way.
Rudd’s hands were shaking! Remember how a while back he was ‘ashen’? Howard’s shoulder is jerking!! Rudd’s eye has a tic!!! Haneef’s body language says he’s guilty!!!!
This is what passes for grown-up analysis in 21st century Australia, along with rants about ‘Your boy got caught handing out government money to his mates’ which demonstrates the commenter doesn’t even have a clue what the story is about. Plus of course sage comparisons with the AWB affair. Yes indeed Jacques, the events are practically identical, apart from the facts and the context. What do you mean BTW when you say this is Rudd’s AWB scandal ‘on the surface’? What do you suggest it is deep down? Rudd’s Khemlani affair?
Ilya your observation, if you remember, was ‘… we cannot conclude one way or another about the e-mail and never will be I suspect.’ The only way the last bit can be true (assuming you meant ‘and never will I suspect’) is if you believe the Auditor General is either incompetent or corrupt. Which is it?
Needless to say, the interest the conservatives have in never finding out for sure is self-evident.
Meanwhile the government progressively abandons attempts to do anything constructive about any significant issues. Why should it? Most people aren’t interested in holding it to account over matters of substance or giving it credit for real achievements. That would require reasoned evidence-based argument, something that is in short supply in the English-speaking world. Much more fun to yap endlessly about trivia like this nonsense.
One last thing before I go back to the remains of my Saturday, that the Tele has an email means nothing, they also published fake photos of Pauline Hanson, I think the editors there have proved to be total suckers for any old garden variety Nigerian type scam.
Ilya @ 56,
My point was, the Rudd Government has a reputation for scrupulous honesty. Now thats not a reputation the Government is likely to do anything to tarnish, because they’d lose big on it.
Howard OTOH was a serial liar. His minions broke electoral laws, got involved in a bribray scandal (AWB), he lied about why troops went into Iraq – if I wrote a 1000,000 word bok on the Howard Government’s lies/deception/forgeries etc I still wouldn’t have enough words.
Turnbull has been on notice since the SA Liberals fell for forged documents earlier this year. He’d better come clean about his source for the phantom email.
Ken, it’s simply part of the spectator sport of politics, but at least this one is not media driven (like it often is.) Journalists on (I think) Insiders noted that his denial in Parliament was unusually intense. The suggestion was that he just hates his “squeaky clean” image to be questioned. I suspect now it’s more likely that he may have asked his office to make an “off the record” inquiry as to whether his pal could be helped. He therefore had to wait to make sure his office did not do it in writing, and when given that apparent re-assurance he let fly, but was still shaken by how close a call it was.
All purely speculative; all doesn’t matter so much in the big scheme of things if a real email never shows up. But amateur psychological detective work (like watching Carmen Lawrence’s unbelievable denials) is just part of “fun” of politics. And of course, for me, it’s particularly good watching Labor supporters pooh-pooh the importance of honesty when the shoe on is on the other foot.
A few points to add here:
1. Grant or Ipswich Motors received nothing from OzCar. There also seemed to be an indication at Senate hearing that it was not actually in play as yet.
2. Ford Credit to whom Grant allegedly applied had reportedly ruled out providing any finance because Grant did not meet the criteria set down.
3. Is it possible that Grech (who implied he was snowed under with the work of OzCar implementation) has confused two “Andrews” – Andrew Charlton from PMO and Andrew Thomas from Treasurer’s Office? The purported email is shown to be signed merely “A”. Note that Grech’s email on 23rd February re the matter was directed to Andrew Thomas.
4. Grech spent some time at the hearing going over his long friendship with Andrew Thomas who he regards as a friend and colleague. Was Grech trying to impress Andrew Thomasw or others.
What he reve4aled about his working style indicated to me at least that he is extremely dedicated to his job and the extent to which he cares about this.
5. Grech stated he did not know Steve Lewis and had no contact with him before Lewis rang him “out of the blue”.
6. Finally, has anybody worked out in all this mucky business, how was the squeaky clean David Murray, Head of the Future Fund and of OzCar going to be strong-armed to supporting the supposed deal and by whom?
There is also the possibility of the Auditor-General”s search coming up with some very juice stuff from the previous Government. The Federal Police now need to be brought into the matter.
Noted some typing mistakes. Since I know there are many small-minded individuals contributing to this site I am happy to point it out myself.
Steve, who is pooh-poohing the importance of honesty? Several pro-Labor commenters on this thread have all said they think Rudd should resign if the alleged email is verified to exist — and all over a car dealer’s access to a few grand financial assistance.
Now, show me the threads from 2006 of Howard supporters agreeing that he or Downer should resign over $300 million to Hussein via the AWB?
72 thewetmale
Mercuius: Kim
aj, thanks for that, i was trying to remember what i watched yesterday, the hansard record may not be up for a bit i understand.
And the big news, Rudd has referred the ‘fake’ email to the AFP. What’s that about never staring an inquiry without knowing the outcome. To repeat Bernard Keane on twitter ‘Not sure how both Rudd and Turnbull can still be leaders after this. One or the other is in deep trouble.’
I think Julia Gillard was behind the fake email. (Please back me on this, Steve at the Pub.) If not her, the Liberal staff who went the grope at the ball.
You’re right Sam. The AFP will confirm it. It’s all a fiendish plot by the NSW Right to stop the Victorian socialists from taking over the leadership in 2018 when Rudd retires. Gillard will have to go.
Politics is so easy when there are experts to interpret events for us.
83 No problem twm
If Mr Grech is vindicated, will we eventually see a TV series called Godwin’s Law ?
Kim wrote:
Apparently, the end of the world is at hand. Kevin Rudd borrowed a ute off a bloke. Or something. It’s a scandal! Apparently. Although, why the *fair slice of the Pineapple* PM isn’t receiving high praise for driving such a *dinkum* Aussie vehicle from those who were loudly denouncing him only last week, over their lattes, for his Quinceland vernacular, I don’t know.
May I be he first to dub this alleged scandal ‘shitboxgate’?
It’s alright, sweetie. The bad man can’t hurt you any more. Hush, poor baby, hush.
AC @ 89.
I know. And, boy, don’t I feel a whole lot safer now he’s gone!
The hurt from the rodent era is etched into the Australian psyche for years to come.
I suspect that this is a Hockey/Howard camp initiative designed to discredit Malcolm.
I’ve got an old ute Kevin can have …I won’t be needing more than, say, $50 million.
I have no opinion about these allegations. Nor could I be bothered doing any research…
Why? Because I’d be very surprised if the electorate was paying any attention to this little circus. The bar was set so low during the rodent’s four terms, I reckon most voters have simply tuned out to this sort of thing.
is this car still for sale?
“On the surface this is Rudd’s AWB scandal.”
Straw for the purpose of clutching at as we used to say in the regiment. What a hoot. Any want to take odds on a Rudd resignation by say … the end of July?
It looks to me like Trunchbull has fallen for the 3 carder. I would say Rudd, Swan and co have been stockpiling eggs for a few days now. I see Trunchbull is still big noting, but the three words that spring readily to mind are: Martin Hamilton-Smith.
Rudd will be following the usual rules having called the AG and AFP in to investigate emailgate-never ask a question unless you already know the answer, never have an investigation unless you already know the outcome.
This won’t be a win-win situation for the Libs, tssk @60. Trunchbull has been set up, either by his own colleagues or by the ALP, who knows or cares? Either way he’s toast. Perhaps Tip may generously offer to put his retirement on hold. It just gets better and better.
If body language is any guide, Turnbull looked far more uncomfortable than Rudd in his press conference this afternoon. Desperation mmixed with fear is not a good look for one destined for great things.
There is worse! See
Adrian @ 97 “Thoroughly stirked” was my take; a man who’s just realised that his might be the head on the chopping block.
Rudd & Swan have to be very confident to call in the Fed cops, and that, like SA Liberal Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith over the supposed Church of Scientology’s $20,000 donation to the ALP, he’s been caught in yet another “fake email” scam. Except, in this case, he blustered and made claims he can’t substantiate; moreover he not only shot his mouth off outside Parliament, he waylaid Andrew Charlton at the Midwinter Ball for a touch of his usual standover tactics (aka “friendly advice”) which Charlton believed was a threat – and someone took the picture.
Sheeee -it!
Milne now claims Turnbull has never seen the missing email.
[By Glenn Milne
June 21, 2009 12:00am
OPPOSITION leader Malcolm Turnbull admitted yesterday he had never seen the mysterious email that he used to demand the resignations of the Prime Minister and the Treasurer.
The email is allegedly from the Prime Minister's office to a Treasury official and, if it exists, suggests Kevin Rudd may have misled Parliament.]
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,27574,25665217-5006009,00.html
I can’t quite work out how to link to an exact ABC video, but have a look at the Lateline one on this page.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/20/2603790.htm
“strike at the very heart of his credibility”? That’s not exactly neutral language, is it?
I feel so sorry for the poor gnome of Treasury who has been caught in the middle of all this. He looks like he’s spent his life hiding from the Eric Abetzes of this world. But would someone really e-mail a line like “great work” to a senior Treasury official?
I’m betting on a forgery.
This is bullshit.
But forget about the fact this is bullshit for one moment, and ask yourself this question—just how viciously deep did the AWB scandal cut for the Tory partisans to bring it up now in a desperate attempt to cauterize that wound?
Really, this (unproven) allegation of petty gladhanding is comparable to the proven allegations of ministerial dereliction-of-duty RE several hundred million dollars in bribes to Saddam? (Feck, the first commenter under the Farr article linked above says Rudd was a hypocrite at the time of the money-for-wheat-contracts commission, never mind this ute story!)
Way to go, Tory lurkers. I look forward to you reappearing here and at other blogs when the next (unproven, BS) molehill is deperately heaped into a mountain by the Coalition machine. That damned AWB spot on your parties’ hands won’t go away just because some Labor pol knows a bloke who once met a man, etc.
Its all blowing up in Turnbull’s face. Quelle Surprise.
I know Nick – those Tory scumbags were wrapping flags around themselves, yabbering about taking ‘moral’ stands, all the while knowingly palming millions to Saddam Hussein, – even as the COW was fighting.
Ask them today, and some will still say it was ok – just business. Australian farmers etc.
There is really no word for that level of moral hypocrisy.
By contrast, as far as I can see, your Mr Grant wasn’t even in the class of person entitled to benefit from the scheme. He’s said as much himself. He was a Dealer, not a financier.
As such, being disentitled, improper influence was not even a possibility – even *if* Rudd or Swan had wanted to. The whole thing is illogical.
Turnbull’s just flat rubbish at politics. I wonder when the Tories will wake up to that. 5 minutes after Rudd decides to go him, Talcum;s on the ropes, being forced to agree that he would “cooperate with police inquiries” into the forging of emails. He’s an amateur.
Back @ 30 I said:
I’d been kinda half listening to the radio. Seems I was wrong. I note that Turnbull said on TV tonight that he didn’t have a copy of the email.
It’s looking like it never existed. You couldn’t convict anyone beyond reasonable doubt on Grech’s testimony. So I’m thinking there is no case at all. Time to move on.
Rudd has been trying to bring a bit of integrity back into political discourse and rebuild some public respect. Turnbull is trashing it. Typical of the Libs.
disclaimer: I’m drunk!
So what if it was a set-up? It’s a more tantalising than the Guillard conspiracy scenario to discredit Rudd. What if Labor set up Turnbull?
dun dun dun DUN!!
I mean this thing is VERY similar to what happened here in SA, just as it looked like people might consider giving that imbecile Hamilton-Smith their ear over [what was it..? - a sports stadium or something to do with water - is there ever anything else going on in Adelaide?...water and sport..water and sport, zzzzz.]..anyhow, just as people were starting to listen to the opposition, the email saga springs up, now M-H-S is fighting for his political survival. Likewise, Turnbull was getting a bit of traction and the same thing happens. It’s gotta be a set-up, or else the Libs are really just plain stupid. hmmm.
The email if it does or ever existed is a certainly a fake, an invention.
There are only two questions that interests anybody now. Who faked it and who in the Liberal Party faked it.
The AFP are investigating to see if anybody masqueraded as Public Servant I think I saw somebody write at PB. Which is different from looking for an email and is a wider brief because it doesn’t require a fake email to have existed. Somebody falsely claiming in person, voice or in documentation to be a PS when they are not.I gather that person would be the purveyor of the false information. It covers all eventualities than just falsifying a govt document.
Look here, there is this email you see, this is the text of it, trust me it exists, but here is what it said or here is the email, have a quick read but give it back but I better hang on to it to keep it safe. Must be somebody the guy trusts to believe him though.
When pea brain Turnbull gets wind of the news and, that there is an email…he of course does his usual hyperbole like the fool he is.
So far we can surmise that:
1. Grech, bullied by Erich Abetz in the Senate, severely flustered, confused the origin or even the existence of an email, giving rise to (a) hysteria in the News Ltd outlets and (2) something in Mal Turnbull’s trouser;
2. Grech, by all appearances is a tortured soul easily folding to authority, probably got a phone call from his immediate superior or a political adviser in the PMO re Grant, and did what he was told although deep down he suspected that doing favours for Grant was not strictly kosher. But when monstered by Abetz, the initial disquiet about helping Grant surfaced in the form of guilt.
3. There is no chance that there was an email to Grech. Sensitive issues are dealt with by fax, especially a a handwritten one – that’s because it is analog medium and the only trace is the fact that someone sent a fax but not what was in it. Faxes exist and are not denied that they exist, with recipients being Swanny and Ken Henry, among others. But there is no likelihood that Grech got a fax either, unless it had a line at the top which said “eat this after reading”.
4. Rudd probably discussed Grant with Swanny in the first instance – something along the lines of “look after my little mate”; and Swanny said “leave it with me, Boss”.
5. Swanny then developed a relationship with Grant mano a mano. Kevin would have learned about this through other sources and Swanny would have wanted Kevin to know that he was taking care of business for him. In an the accident-waiting-to-happen way Swanny bought a car at a discount from Grant. A stupid error of judgment but a very Queensland thing to do.
6. This now leaves Kevin’s hands clean. This is why he can grandstand about the email which never existed — and why so much focus is being placed on it — it’s a dummy target and both News and Mal fell for it although Mal has realised this and has now shifted his crosshairs onto Swanny. Bit too late, Mal: half a day is a long time in politics.
7. Kevin is safe, but Swanny is in a bit of a dicey situation. Kevin would not be too displeased if it went pearshaped for Swanny because he is a dope, let’s face it. It all now depends whether Labor war room can trust Swanny to keep his trap shut if he were to take tumble, even if temporarily.
8. Of course, there are numerous conspiracies that can evolve from this, and one which I can’t resist in sharing with you’all is that this was a setup by Kevin because he would prefer Lindsay Tanner as treasurer.
9. Finally, why are the Liberals and the NewsLimiteds as their stalking horse running with the ute story? It just shows how moronic they are if they think that the average voter would be convinced that the ute, a piece of rusty rubbish worth less than a decent lunch constitutes a credible bribe. C’mon, folks, get serious.
10. My advice to Kevin and Swanny: brazen it out.
To all of you guys suggesting the very idea the email might have been faked by the tories.
Honestly. I mean really. Take a long hard look at yourselves. That’s as likely as them sending out fake campaign pamphlets to letterboxes about the ALP and some sort of Islamic conspiracy on the eve of an election.
And we all know the Libs wouldn’t be that stupid…
turnbulls rooted.
doesn’t he remember heffernan, a discredited boarding school bully demented by homophobia.
birds of a feather.
meanwhile kirby retires in blaze of well deserved-glory, saluted by the decent folk of this nation.
you’d think turnbull would learn.
On second thought, I don’t think we can rule out impropriety.
It’s just I was upset at listening to the insane monk on Friday’s Lateline tell Lindsay Tanner that he was “prostituting himself” for putting forth a reasoned debunking of the email story. There is no email, never was—but no wrong can be proven without it, and until it’s thoroughly smacked down by the rozzers the drumbeat will persist.
All they have on Swan (Swan! Damn you! Beattie could have deepsixed your career when he had the chance, and this is how you repay the party?) is proof of unrecorded calls to his privately owned fax machine.
I think Sir Henry @ 107 is right, this is all nod-and-a-wink stuff, it’s not very wholesome, I shouldn’t defend it.
But screw the Coalition for bringing up the spectre of destruction of government records. That’s fantasy stuff, it’s a conspiracy theory, it’s the politics of attempting to wish a constitutional crisis into being—and it’s really more applicable to what Howard and Downer did when they were Bush’s (& the AWB’s) poodles.
“8. Of course, there are numerous conspiracies that can evolve from this, and one which I can’t resist in sharing with you’all is that this was a setup by Kevin because he would prefer Lindsay Tanner as treasurer.”
Good to see you go out on a limb there, Sir Henry, especially when “sensible guy” SATP is already perched on a faltering twig, further up@50, in a nest made of remnant hairdressers red hair.
I do not think we should rule out a parting cut from Spitball Costello to the Turnbull mojo here. Incidentally, Tip now looks a certainty to scare the bejesus out of public servants, thanks to a clever Kev plan, as controller of The Future Fund. (I think they should be planning for next years Vinnys homeless sleepout, to prepare for life in the great outdoors.)
As conspiracy theories go, though, I still can’t go past my default position. I see the evilhand of The Greys on those emails.
How spooky. I just came across an actual, real, genuine, true, picture of a GREY.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3t8H84CU9Zs/RxCoxqH94zI/AAAAAAAAACw/_TMjcLmkrus/s320/Lewis.gif
Sheer.
Comedy.
Gold.
How nobody else on this thread recognised Atta’s brilliant satire in those paras I’ll never know.
It looks Like Rudd is safe and Turnbull is damaged, but Swann is still looking iffy, though he will probably tough it out. Standards on these mstters are not what they were.
Those calling for Swann to go should note that if he does, Lindsay Tanner will become Treasurer and Australia will have, for the first time ever,simultaneously a Treasurer from the Left, and a Defence Minister from the Left. And that is not counting the immense power and influence of the Rosa Luzemburg of our times, Julia Gillard.
One should be careful about one wishes for.
A Costello parting jape was what I was thinking too Joe2 (111).
It’s all vaudeville to him. The challenge of taking the flimsiest and hackneyed of material, adding immaculate timing and a modicum of diablo ex machina from the off-stage company, and voila, a mesmerising act, the proverbial hard one to follow: it’s exactly the sort of thing that might might have been amusing him, working up a parting gesture of contempt for both parties.
Shades of Ralph Willis ’96, non? Perhaps the same Victorian liberal party jester’s baubles reprising their signature act?
PS: Que “The Greys”?
You’ll be pleased to know that Peter van Onselen has applied his incredible insight and intelligence to the issue. Wasn’t he the bloke who in commenting on the Queensland election thought Charleville was in Brisbane’s western suburbs?
Anyway Onsy reckons Rudd should be given the benefit of the doubt, but not Swan:
My estimation of Grech is that his knowing that Grant “wasn’t your average constituent” meant that Grech would make dead certain that Grant was treated as your average constituent.
Onselen is presumably good at something, but political commentary isn’t it.
This from Onselen’s piece of drivel:
‘It is hard to feel sorry for Mr Rudd having his reputation for integrity dragged through the mud. He was happy to do the same to John Howard, Alexander Downer and Mark Vaile over the Australian Wheat Board scandal.’
Gosh, all that AWB stuff was based on fabricated evidence muck-raked by News Ltd hacks and gullibly swallowed by the ALP, Bush Adminstration, Cole Inquiry, US Congress, UN and sundry other institutions. How come I missed that story when it broke?
Nickws @ 110 “All they have on Swan … proof of unrecorded calls to his privately owned fax machine.” Oooh, Luv it when you out the oxymorons Nickws!
Err, joe2 @ 111 How are Rudd & Tanner going to manoeuvre the Grand Email Conspiracy around the AFP’s involvement? As Swan & others have said, this scam in now an indictable offence (actually, should be Conspiracy to … as soon as Grech acted on the “email”) with the perps likely to end up at least in dock, possibly in the slammer (Naah, it wouldn’t have been Reith or Ruddock or Andrews or Howard,would it? Dammit!) That’s the crim law bit. Not a patch on what the civil law fallout might become (O please sue Turnbull, Andrew C! drool!) Rather like living through the Painters & Dockers’ RC once it focused on “Bottom of the Harbour” and went on to claim Fraser’s Mob ….
Waiting with baited YKW for the next episode …
BTW: Swannie & Julia both state that Cossie hadn’t been given a job. Julia implied “Yet”, possibly not that one.
Sam @ 114 “not counting the immense power and influence of the Rosa Luzemburg of our times, Julia Gillard.” Heute geht’s nicht so gut, mein Führer?
I would have thought that the nearest parallel headline would be..
“John Howard=Pig Man’s brother; therefore he’s done for”
We know that Howard did in fact bail out his brother’s failed business with public money, and how that one panned out.
I hope all of this hasn’t spooked my local member to the point where he is too scared to help any of his constituents for fear of being accused of “doing a Rudd.” Why have local memebers if they aren’t allowed to communicate with public servants?
“If Mr Swan doesn’t lose his job it will be because he was trying to help out a mate of the person – Mr Rudd – who decides if he gets the boot.”
Mmm… top work there. The old ‘Rudd get’s the ute and Swannie get’s the boot’, scenario. Hang on Onsy, utes don’t ‘ave boots.
George Meg was on insiders this morning and made what i think is a good point that there needs to be an anti-corruption watchdog at federal level, similar to state bodies e.g. the ICAC in NSW. He felt that it was ugly when the feds were put on Carmen Lawrence and it is ugly to have the feds put on Turnbull, politicising the federal police is not a good idea.
Secondly, from a media management/political perspective i think it is interested that the story is becoming a battle of media management: it is in Labor’s interests to keep the focus on Turnbull/Liberals/the email to protect Swan, and in reverse it is in Turnbull/Liberals interest to focus on Swan/The car dealer/other mates to get the focus away from themselves. Unless the email turns out to be true (an impossibility i would think) Rudd is in the clear. Going by form it would be very surprising if the Government lost this one, they are the reining champions by far (i write this as ABC news updates that the Govt are calling for Turnbull to resign if he can’t produce the email within 24hrs, i wouldn’t miss parliament tomorrow for quids.)
Also interesting that on insiders the panel was not happy that Godwin Grech told something different to Steve Lewis than what the told the senate inquiry. I can understand them wanting anyone who talks to them to tell the truth but if i was a public servant i don’t think i would ever want to talk to the media (I guess Godwin might have been blowing what he thought was a whistle by exposing the email.)
The one thing i find odd is that Godwin Grech had a recollection of getting the email. Did he get an email from an account impersonating Rudd’s staffer, perhaps the govt knows this and that is why they have launched the feds. Did he get this impression from being grilled by Steve Lewis and getting himself confused? It’s all very odd. Finally, once again i would agree with (i think it was George Meg) on insiders that Lindsay Tanner going Mr Grech yesterday morning is not good.
If KRudd was caught with his hand in the till with a fist full of money the news headlines would be “Turnbull opens till for Rudd”. This is a joke how the media have turned their attentions to Turnbull when regardless of the email the Treasury official has directly implicated Rudd and Swan and they have misled parliament.
They should be sacked immediately!!!!
All Tanner said was that Grech’s story was confusing and that you couldn’t rely on it. No more than the truth. But I do hope they don’t take it out on the guy in any way. It wouldn’t be fair and wouldn’t look good.
We’ve had quotations from this email that doesn’t exist. So someone has got it or is making stuff up. Most likely on the evidence the latter, which makes calling in the AFP quite justifiable and I don’t see how this politicises them.
The effect of knowing that Grant was not the average constituent was, according to Grech, to give Grant’s request priority, nothing more, nothing less. That is quite justifiable IMO because Grech doesn’t want the PM to have to tell Grant that the damn thing got lost in a pending file, or something.
This is all pretty ho hum except that someone has likely cooked something up, Malcolm is being brutally self-interested politically in the extreme and doesn’t care whether the public esteem for politicians in general is being trashed in the process, plus the MSM are sucking up his spiel.
Watching the Insiders today brought to mind the image of mediaeval “thinkers” debating how many angels could dance on the point of a pin.
How could five reasonably intelligent journalists not understand how much time and space they have wasted and continue to waste on what Julia Gillard sensibly pointed out is part of the daily round for politicians – steering petitioning constituents to appropriate departments to deal with their requests?
What is it about George Megalogenis these days? Or was I wrong to imagine that he was ever a reasonably objective and fearless commentator?
I am suprised that somehow John Howard hasn’t been blamed for this!
Kosuzu, your courageous statements about The Media Conspiracy have finally revealed the appalling truth about this disturbing and important topic.
And demanding the sacking of the PM and the Treasurer … Yes, this would certainly solve the problem. Just one question. Who should sack them?
How may interested parties subscribe to your newsletter?
Several people have mentioned the AWB story and JWH’s brother-bailout…
IMHO, not matter what the facts turn out to be in this little drama, the fallout (in the eyes of the disengaged electorate) will be the same as for those earlier events. BIG YAWN. Too murky, too complicated and too “bloody typical” of our political elite. Now, back to the swine flu crisis!!!
I am not gloating that Rudd could possibly, maybe get away with an alleged something improper. It’s just that the big players (all parties, globally) are very, very rarely held to account in this age.
Re Godwin Grech: There was a comment by Rudd or somebody on last night’s news that the Government is standing by its support of the principle of free sppech and not going after Godwin (whom I’ve felt distinctly sorry for. After all, he was just doing his job.) According to the Rudster, they believe in free speech, unlike John Howard.
Um – the Chaser/that child photograph scandal/ etc, etc. Just sayin’.
Senate email? There is no sanitymail. Hand in the till? Fistful of money? When contributors to this thread go into mindless auto mode or more likely responses are generated by a poorly written program, it’s obvious that “utegate” has run its course.
Scene: Large metropolitan newspaper.
Poison Dwarf comes into the editor’s glass booth.
PD: Where’s my yarn?
Perry White: Sorry Glenn, we had to replace it with a breaking story on page 17 “Puppy rescued from flames”.
btw, just to keep my record clean, I blame John Howard. He was undoubtedly giving Malcolm advice
Come, however much I despise the man, he was a brilliant political operator. he came out of AWB and the fake e-mail to Willis squeaky clean – Honest John! -He lied and lied and lied again to the electorate and he got away with it. Malcolm tries it once and within days he’s caught with his pants down. John Howard would never have made that mistake.
Paul, a public figure deliberately misleading the Australia people is accepted political practice and indeed cause to respect their wonderful political talents. It’s only if a politician misleads other politicians in parliament that they suddenly become precious and develop a twisted regard for the truth.
Is there anyone left in this country who believes the principle of ministers having parliamentary accountability is anything more than empty rhetoric these days? Yet they cling to this idiotic perversion of morality in which a prime minister can wage aggressive war after comprehensively deceiving the Australian people without incurring any significant opprobrium from the ruling classes. It’s just politics. But telling an untruth in parliament about some trivial matter – even an accidental untruth – brings the elites and their media fellow-travellers out in all their pompous self-regarding feigned outrage.
Like others have said, most ordinary people will ignore the whole childish episode. And very sensible of them too.
This may be one smear too many for the Liberal Party.
You would have thought they would have learned a lesson after strippergate and all the other smears that fell flat in ’07.
But remember: we’re dealing here with a party that was still trying to dig up dirt on Paul Keating years after leaving office. And let’s not forget the faked Comcar timesheet that was used to try and smear Justice Kirby. Or the fake racist pamplets used in Lindsay in the last days of the last election.
Liberals have a long history of grubby fakery.
“Perry White: Sorry Glenn, we had to replace it with a breaking story on page 17 “Puppy rescued from flames”.”
Sir ‘enry, with due respect, that would more likely have read…..
“….Sorry Glenn, we had to replace it with a breaking story on page 17 “Puppy rescued from flames by Malcolm Turnbull”.”
Brian @ 124, i think the AFP are politicised when they are called in by the PM and he immediately says he hopes that his immediate opponent cooperates with them. It’s like asking someone if they still beat up their wife; if Malcolm wont cooperate he looks very dodgy, if he says ‘yes Mr PM i will cooperate’ it leaves him looking a little guilty. As much as i’m sure there are legal reasons for the AFP to investigate you couldn’t say that Rudd doesn’t see a political opening here.
Admittedly i’m getting quite confused about all of this, but IIRC the sequence of ‘representations’ by Swans office left the treasury compromised by having to negotiate a bail out/propping up of Ford Credit while at the same time asking them to themselves bail out/prop up this Grant fellow. Perhaps i have that wrong, but if that is true then i think that is a difficult situation for treasury to be in.
I still think, for Labor, the main issue is weather they mislead the house. I think they would both (Rudd and Swan) survive this one given the statements they each made. I’m also concerned that treasury official(s) felt they should give priority to cases referred to them from Swans office, especially that they thought a mate of Rudd’s should get special treatment and yet Swan and Rudd are publicly saying that they didn’t ask for special treatment. Either they are lying (not what i think) or there is a culture in treasury that there is an unwritten rule that friends of top ministers get preference which isn’t good.
Whatever the reason, i don’t think it looks good for Swan to claim in parliament that he didn’t know the outcome of Grant motor’s reference to treasury and yet he had faxes going to his home related to Grant motor’s. Perhaps the faxes are innocent but it doesn’t make sense on the face of it.
That may be but the story was the number 1 story on morning commerce breakfast TV today, sunrise even got their man in Canberra, Mark Reilly, in to discuss it. I think they would know their viewers, then again perhaps Sunday morning viewers are different to Monday-Friday viewers.
PB @ 131
Few! sanity restored
What’s this about Malcolm Turnbull and a cat being strangled, please?
While at the same time slipping $300m in a brown paper bag to the leader of the very country against which the PM referred to above, is enthusiastically waging war. One wonders if that is a treasonable offence?
Bernard Keane has laid out a couple of scenarios in the comments to his story on Friday night that i think are worth a read.
And of course the fake children overboard scare, the fake WMD scare, the fake human shredder, the fake nukes for Al Qaeda from Saddam, the fake ‘boat people could be terrorists’ scare, and so on.
And that’s just here in Australia, Ginja. Remember in the USA there was the Republican campaign volunteer who before the 2008 Presidential elections carved a backwards ‘B’ into her face and claimed a black man had bashed her? And Swift Boat Veterans for Truth?
What is it with the right and fabricating tricked-up evidence to whip up fear in the electorate?
I really think it’s a bit rich to hear News Limited journalists asking the politicians to produce the email when said email and the name of the source of that email is in the possession of one of their journalists.
Can’t they just pick up the phone or poke a head over the cubicle and say, “Stevo maaaaaaaaate, can I have a squiz at it, can I huh, and where did you get it?
When political parties lose power they often have this touching idea that they will be returned as soon as the public realizes what a bunch of sleazy, politically incorrect etc opportunists the new government is. We have seen this pattern repeated after Frazer, Keating and Howard lost. We have also seen that it had little effect on voters who were ready for real change and don’t want a quick return to the tied old government that they have rejected.
Malcolm should stop wasting time on point scoring and concentrate on convincing us that he really has something worthwhile to offer.
Amazing that so many are falling for the desperate KRudd spin of setting ultimatums and shifting focus on an email that he has no doubt already removed from all internal servers. Whether or not the email is ever found, the questions remain: Why has Mr Grech ordered a labour intensive review of Mr Grant’s options under the OzCar scheme, making representations on behalf of Mr Grant to Ford and why does Mr Grech recall receiving an email/call from the PMO alerting him to the case of Mr Grant and leaving him with the impression that Mr Grant was no ordinary constituent? THAT is the question KRudd needs to answer! And throwing mud at Turnbull doesn’t address the issue at all. If KRudd was to retain any form of credibility why hasn’t he come out firing at Mr Grech calling him either a liar or deranged or establishing some other motive for his allegations? You cannot just dust it off by saying Mr Grech was confused or bullied under the senate inquiry – how can someone’s nerves make them invent the existence of an email or invent that the PMO was the first to make them aware of the importance of Mr Grant?
Will be interesting to see when KRudd is forced to answer the real questions!
Lars L @ 143, the PM could not possibly have removed the alleged email from all internal servers, as you suggest. Even if they are deleted from a computer’s memory, it is possible to retrieve them from hard-drives and servers. If you think the Auditor-General and the Federal Police do not have these tools available, you are dreaming. Rudd has been entirely consistent in his dealing with this non-issue, right from the first questions in parliament. Unlike Turnbull, who has quoted “documentary evidence” which he said he had in his possession, then retracted that and said he has not seen it, but Eric Abetz was reading from it during his grilling of Grech. Do you seriously believe Abetz would have seen it, but not shown it to Turnbull? As to the issue of Rudd “throwing mud” at Turnbull… surely you can see the hypocrisy of this remark? Turnbull has accused the Prime Minister of coruption and demanded his resignation. Rudd has merely insisted that Turnbull provide evidence to prove his charge. The mud has all been flung one way.
Nah we’re into the shell game now Ozymandias. As fast as you nail one ground of attack, they’ll just switch to one of the others. “They had their fingers in the till.” “All right they didn’t have their fingers in the till but Rudd misled parliament.” “OK Rudd didn’t mislead parliament but Swan misled parliament.” “Hmmmmm well they might not have misled parliament but they got Grant special treatment.” “Maybe it wasn’t special treatment but they had their fingers in the till.” And so on ad infinitum. “And what about the hockey stick?” Oh wait, that’s one of the talking points from another circular shell game.
The great distancing has begun.
Laura @ 137
http://au.messages.yahoo.com/news/politics/390421/ A little way down the page.
Brian @ 124 said:
Is that how we want our political system to work though? Give money or goods to a politician and when they come in to power they’ll make sure your requests through government organisations are given priority over other people’s?
Pretty obviously this is one of the reasons that people donate to political campaigns. But this should be a bit of a wakeup call to the general public. People and organisations don’t give money to political parties without expecting something in return in the future.
I just realised my link before didn’t work so here it is
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/06/19/utegate-rudd-orders-full-investigation/#comment-29116
Patricia WA @ 125,
After watching Insiders today I have to admit I’ve lost a little bit of respect for Mega George. The fact he was so quick to defend The Australian over their biased & hysterical attacks on the Rudd Government’s stimulus package during the week was gross. I know they’re his employer but staying silent would’ve kept his dignity intact.
@ Jacques de Molay I did catch that this morning as well, I must say GM looked weak and uncomfortable in their defense under Bazzas questioning on the saturation coverage of education spending – this from a media outlet that likes to portray LP as some sort of hive minded groupthinking latte sipping collective.
Booked 2 x second-class train tickets from Amsterdam to Paris and a sleeper compartment from Paris to Venice. At least i hope that’s what i’ve booked. The website was in Dutch. Speak English you ignorant swine!
terribly sorry, thought this was Lazy Sunday. Well whatever. No utes here mate.
thewetmale @ 135, if I was Grech and there was an application in the pile from a mate of the PM, then I’d prefer to know about it, and yes I’d certainly make sure it didn’t go to the bottom of the pile. But I’d make damn sure I’d look at it in terms of the rules that apply, because I’d be aware that it had the potential to be splashed all over the media.
Grech strikes me as the sort of bloke who would play with a very straight bat.
Chris @ 148, in my ideal world there would be no political donations at all. But that’s not the way things are and we don’t have a moat around our politicians.
Mercurius @ 140, there was the big interest rate scare before the 2004 election and now Malcolm is indulging in a big ‘debt is bad’ scare, although he’s intelligent to know that he’s talking bullshit.
Phil at 146.
the article you’ve linked too emphasises the change of target for the opposition.
The choice of Rudd as target when they don’t have a paper trail reveals very poor (or perhaps shallow is better description), short term thinking .
For Turnbull to have pursued the Treasurer from the outset would have been particularly effective at solidifying his position especially if the Government decided that the damage was getting to be too much and a resignation was needed.
Instead we have a confused tit for tat ,distracted mess which ends up blowing up in the accusers face.
As others have mentioned the temperament doesn’t appear suited to the task.
we don’t have a moat around our politicians.
Unlike some Pommie pollies, who drowned in said.
The Watergate break-in happened in 1972, a generation ago by any standard. It was about the POTUS engaged in criminal activity to benefit his political campaign against his opponent in an election, using arms of the state to do his dirty work. In other words, a major assault on the basis of democratic governance.
The -gate suffix is now apparently applied to any indiscretion, however minor. How long before we see serviette-gate when a political leader fails to put the aforesaid napkin in the appropriate place at a diplomatic dinner? How long before it becomes, like ‘terrific’, ‘bad’ and (almost) ‘terrorist’ a signifier of approbation?
Did Eric Abetz read “the email” from his computer at Senate hearings on Friday? I thought he did. If so, it exists in the Opposition’s records. Might be mistaken but it would gel with Turnbull’s comment to Dr.Charlton that they had “documentation” which at this point might not be in the hands of the Opposition but of one of their bleeding hearts like Piss Akermann.
The thought of the Federal Police being competent enough to get to the bottom of this matter sends me into despair, bearing in mind the mindboggling incompetence shown by them in my reading of the Haneef transcripts.
Also if Ford Credit was wanting to get into the OzCar scheme wouldn’t they have bent over backward to accommodate Grech’s referral of Grant?
It’s Alice in Wonderland time and I’ve got probably got Swine Flu to boot. Happy Sunday.
155 post? It blows my mind that this ridiculous little stoush could generate a quarter as many posts as the great Missy Higgins thread. Where’s the perspective?
I can’t say that Krudd looked like a man doomed by scandal today when I saw him.
One thing I can say about email is that my last workplace had an unsecured SMTP server. It was simple enough to shove any text via telnet into it and fake emails from anyone. Great for office pranks.
Re 159- What ? Perspective ?
It’s all in the media having a volatile situation to pursue.
It is a crazy perspective to many but they can always go for walk or entertain themselves some other way. Attendance isn’t compulsory- nor is caring about perspective.
I am amazed that some people think this is a trivial media beat up. The possibility of the PM or the treasurer misleading the house is very important, the parliament being the central plank of our system of government. The idea that someone might set up the PM or treasurer for this charge is obviously equally serious. Comparing this issue to the question of a pop stars sexuality is a pretty stupid comparison.
@150 I agree that Megalogenis’ answer was disappointing on the question of the Australian’s education coverage.
Lighten up wetmale. I think Jenny’s reference to the Missy Higgins thread was a joke.
Anyway, I’m amazed that this exercise in media hyperbole is thought by anyone to be of any great significance when we have far more important things to worry about.
It’s politics as a circus – entertainment for the political class to get excited about, where most people quite rightly couldn’t give a shit.
I just hope that those getting themselves into an outrage over this matter were at the point of apoplexy on the numerous occasions when John Howard lied to the Australian people on matters of rather more significance.
Hal9000, I think the gate suffix has been applied tongue-in-cheek due to the hysterical nature of the press coverage, giving it far more importance than it deserves.
A few things.
First of all the PM cannot get rid of the evidence from theservers unsless the hard drives are all destroyed. And I mean really destroyed. The platters disintegrated.
As for the electorate not giving a stuff about the detail…this will actually make it eaiser for the upcoming dismissal to happen. The average Australian isn’t reading into the detail here, just the headlines. All they know is that the PM and Turnbull did the dodgy over a ute.
Onto more serious matters, I’d advise caution about some of the posts here about his past or alleagation of im lying over the email. We don’t know any of those things are true.
And to give George Mega* his due…I thought the threat to send the feds over to Turnbull’s place was disturbing/distasteful.
Ironically enough it may be that the only way Rudd can prove he’s the man of integrity we need to run this nation is to step down.
One thing’s for sure, I’m betting Costello is cursing his timing now. If he were to quickly depose of Turnbull now politically he could be PM by the end of the year.
Fair enough (d’oh!)
I’m sure there has been some hyper activity on the part of the media because the stakes here are pretty big; PM, Treasurer and Leader of the Opposition with their heads on the block, especially because this government has given them so little in this department. I however do not accept that the issues
are justshould just be considered “entertainment for the political class to get excited about.”You can count me in there. Getting outraged at the lies and deceit of the Howard government was pretty easy – it just kept coming!
Obvious why you are thewetmale…..anyone getting a stiffy over this one needs to get back to church.
meanwhile courageous Iranians are being tear-gassed.
The next scandal to break will concern Fed Govt infrastructure funding being used to “repair” perfectly good farm gates on farms in marginal Qld electorates. I have the documents in my possession. There are invoices from subbies. The money trail resembles the dribble on a dusty road when a ute’s sprung a leak. Or a leak on a rusty Dept when a journo’s sprung a ute.
Any road the new scandal will be dubbed “Gategate” cos it concerns farm gates. There’s Paddockgate. Fencegate. And me favourite is Bullgate.
The Liberal Party has cried wolf too often trying to pin phony “scandals” on Rudd – virtually from the day he assumed the ALP leadership.
And the Liberal Party has no credibility on this kind of thing – the onus is on them to prove that they haven’t faked documents yet again.
As I said before, and as is the case with Republicans in the US, if your economic agenda is well to the Right of the electorate, smearing your opponent’s character probably seems about the only option left.
The question is, will the media rush to demand Turnbull’s resignation with the same intensity as they yelled for Rudd’s head?
With 70% of newspapers in this country owned by a right-wing ideologue, don’t count on it.
P.S. Ideology has a lot to do with this kind of thing. As the Liberal Party has moved further and further to the extreme Right it attracts, well, nutty One Nation types as staffers etc. who have few qualms about this kind of thing.
All you Liberal supporters out there, you know it’s true.
Apropos of the Phantom Email no-one’s seen, here’s a little ditty poor Malcolm is probably turning-over in his mind even as we speak ( with apologies to Hughes Mearns):
“As Mal was walking up the stair
He found an email that wasn’t there.
It wasn’t there again today.
I bet he wishes he’d stayed away.”
I really do despair at the quality of political journalism in this country. Do these navel-gazing, herd following, sensation-seeking, easily manipulated fools in the press gallery have any idea how little this manufactured “story” means to 99 per cent of the electorate?
No-one understands what it means. Something about a ute and a lost email. Who cares?? For goodness sake, we’re facing a global financial crisis and a global environmental crisis that call for serious policy initiatives and this is all the press gallery can dredge up??
It is just political grandstanding and manufactured drama over matters of total inconsequence. That News Ltd papers, in particular, are pressing with such zeal speaks volumes for corrupted their news judgement is by ideology.
Is Grech possibly recalling a verbal exchange rather than something that risked going on the record, hence the uncertainty? Anyone who thinks Rudd et al are above looking after their mates on the sly is in la-la land. The APS seethes with nepotism, and it gets worse the further up you go – why would the culture of the narcissists who occupy Parliament be any different for gawsakes? Anyone who has gotten past a first term has learned to be ruthless. And yes, I mean all of them. For example, if you think Bob Brown would decline to crush your skull if you stood in his way – you clearly haven’t worked on the Hill! Part of the problem, of course, is the “forensic inquiry” smartass lawyer culture that now infests the place.
Well put indeed @173. Right on target.
I can only add my despair at the quality of politicians in this country.
Meanwhile innocent Afghans are being killed by 2000lb GPS-guided bombs.
All this talk of scandal going to the survival of a government reminds me of how the previous government might have reacted. Remember Tampa. In the week prior to it’s arrival the media was swamped with the issue of how the local branch of the Small Business Minister had cooked the books in order to avoid paying the GST and even involved an elderly female local branch member explaining on Today what had taken place and her anger. This was in the context of small business anger at the realisation of just how much time and money this new tax would involve and the Coalition sinking in the polls. Then over the horizon appeared HMS Tampa.
Then in the only week when the Senate was examining foreign exchange losses worth several billions by the RBA which pointed to Costello incompetence Heffernan stands up in the senate and makes his accusations about High Court Justice Kirby. The media week was swamped by this smear and the Senate hearing all but ignored by the popular press with frauds like Matt Price, with a straight face/pen, writing how Costello wouldn’t be able to believe his luck that this diversion just happened to occur this week. By Friday the Senate hearings were over and Heffernan went whooping down the stairs, job done.
I’m not sure this government has any options like this, you need a compliant/complicit media for that, but it’s interesting to remember how the Coalition behaved in such circumstances.
I think a lot of people understand the facts and possibilities. It’s not so much a ute and a lost email as it is about other tabled emails, statements made in parliament and a side serving of the gigantic egos of Turnbull and Rudd.
Lol! I guess i better dump another bucket of ice water on myself and try to get some sleep. Just remember, if Swan is left teetering on the edge tomorrow evening don’t come crying to me wondering why.
DeeCee @ 18: Kudos for understanding that oxymorons can be a legitimate device. You’ve read your Patrick White, like I have. Too many people think redundancies don’t belong in expression.
thewetmale above: If Swannie’s position looks bad it won’t be because the crusader rabbits have anything on him, nor because of any Rudd or Gillard or Tanner conspiracy. It’ll be because the prime minister is a mad keen cleanskin, regardless of what the Hansonite-infected modern conservative side of Oz politics might wish.
DeeCee at one hundred and eighteen
Seems now, according to Phil Coorey’s There’s no such thing as a free ute … Grech might have been remembering a different case of a Sydney car dealer, which, Rudd has already told Parliament, he passed on to Treasury (possibly via an email from his office). So there might have been a kosher email from the PM’s office, about a car dealer with no links to Rudd other than a verbal approach at a function (probably explaining Julia’s remarks on Insider’s) …
Which, you have to admit, makes the whole expensive farce that much more ironic!
Anyone reading the latest Quarterly essay by Annabel Crabbe about Malcolm Turnbull would know the bowdlerised cat story gives the essay its title “Stop at Nothing”. Personally I think Malcolm has played too hard and too fast. It would be nice to have a government led by Julia and Lindsay instead of Kevvy and Swanny.
Swanny sounded pretty d*mn confident when interviewd by Franny this morning on Radio National (after allowing for approx 10 minutes of silence broadcast in Victoria at least)
“It would be nice to have a government led by Julia and Lindsay instead of Kevvy and Swanny.”…
Imagine that, a system of government whereby WeThePeople could directly vote for which person becomes the head of state, rather than just getting the scraps off the table of intra-party deals … Hang on, isn’t that what they do in America?
Then again, if Australian inter-party electioneering is dirty now, imagine how disgustingly filthy it would get in a “Presidential Primaries” type round, when the internal party dirty linen was even more well known, and inevitably used.
Mr Denmore @ #173
This issue may seem recondite to 99% of the electorate. However, the issue of misleading parliament is a serious one.
Let us hypothesise that the charges against Rudd and Swan are correct and let us then suppose that Rudd and Swan refuse to resign and that the inevitable motion of no confidence is defeated along party lines.
Then let us suppose that the media set up a banshee wail against the government for breeching a long-standing convention of the Westminster system. And let us finally suppose that the 99% of the electorate who don’t care about the issue today continue not to care. The government suffers no loss of public support and goes on to win the next general election with a comfortable majority.
Is the media wrong to attempt to inform the electorate about long-standing Westminster conventions? I would argue the opposite.
If the electorate decides not to punish the government for any perceived breech, then the convention is dead.
The death of this long-standing convention may or may not be a good thing. However, its death is certainly very newsworthy.
Jane @165: I’d like to agree that it’s ironic, but sadly I saw ‘Utegate’ as the screen-bottom title line on a very breathless report about it all on Channel 10 news. So it’s official!
thewetmaile – your faith in the honesty of politicians talking in parliament is touching. That horse bolted so long ago it’s hard to tell where the ruins of the stable are. I’m with Ken Lovell on this too – why on earth should it be apparently perfectly ok to lie to the people but a mortal sin to do it to other professional liars in parliament?
Whatever, the only issue of significance is whether government ministers corruptly used their positions to obtain a benefit for a crony. There was no benefit obtained by the crony, so there’s no issue.
Honestly we are witnessing history in action.
Dismissal to happen within a month.
I’d like to thank the Greens for voting to allow this idiotic “inquiry” into a old second-hand ute used for campaigning.
Everyone except Malcolm Turnbull – even the Treasury official who was dragged into this nonsense – thinks it’s been completely overblown.
So in a week when we should have been getting into the hard detail of an ETS, the Greens went along with the Libs to create this circus.
Great sense of priorites Greens!
I note that the Libs are now basically conceding the email is dodgy, Eric Abetz saying it’s only one part of this, after making a big deal out of it in Parliament only days before.
But who other than a few journos and Liberal staffers/MPs would know the name of one of Rudd’s economic advisers? And doesn’t Turnbull owe that staffer an apology after basically calling him a liar at a public function?
I hope the Government hammers the Libs on this. One forgery too many for the Liberal Party.
“Utegate”? Too early to name this escapade. It could end up “FakeEmailCameFromTurnbull’sOfficegate”.
Psssst! fresh OzCar thread.