Comments on: Shame, Barnaby, Shame…

By: Ginja

Ginja — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:53:32 +0000

Tigtog: glad to hear it. I actually said there are a lot of good parents out there, too.

Ridiculously permissive parenting defintitely crosses class and political lines.

By: Casey

Casey — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:40:50 +0000

So the argument is here that children who run around and make noise, children who are carefree enough not to notice they are making noise, who cannot be expected to be socialised as an adult, because they are, well, children – these are badly brought up children? And they are spiteful Tories in the making? Talk about demonizing kids.

A child is a child by virtue of the fact that their brain has not developed certain skills. They are badly behaved at times and this is age appropriate. Indeed it is necessary for them to be badly behaved. They do not yet understand the delaying of gratification, have not yet mastered the integration of emotions and are poor with impulse control. What gets them through the mastering of these skills and the transition into adulthood where they become adept at these things are adults who will remain steady and calm while they resolve these issues in a sometimes very public, very noisy way.. But we are talking about adults who know what battles to pick. Adults who know how to let them be children. Which really means adults who have resolved their own crises of integration and socialization and can tolerate the discomfort of noise and disruption.
.

By: tigtog

tigtog — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:10:50 +0000

@ Ginja: This latte-leftie has certainly invested many hours in raising polite and considerate kids, so perhaps your impression needs some reflection.

By: Fine

Fine — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:58:50 +0000

Helen, I don’t know whether you’ve read the book, but I think you’re being rather unfair about ‘The Slap’. By ‘straw-mother’ I’m assuming you mean that Tsiolkas is making an argument about mothers, or at least some sort of mothers which is false, lazy and caricatured. Sure, the character of Rosie is insufferable at the start. But as you begin to know more about her through the novel, she becomes more sympathetic, complex and three dimensional. She has her reason for being who she is. None of the characters in the book are wholly good or evil. They all behave badly at times. You could also balance up Rosie by looking at the other characters who are mothers, or mother figures, such as the gorgeous Auntie Tash and the teenage boy’s Mum, whose name I forget.

Anyway, this is a bit ot, but hey, it’s been brought up in the thread.

By: Mindy

Mindy — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:54:23 +0000

Have you ever thought that maybe when kids are behaving you don’t notice them? That it’s only the kids misbehaving that get your attention? But of course it’s easier to say that parents are doing a bad job, it’s all because of feminism etc etc. Yawn.

By: Ginja

Ginja — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:11:55 +0000

Thought?

….I should say good on all those parents who do their best in trying circumstances.

By: Ginja

Ginja — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:08:42 +0000

The impression I get here from many is that raising polite and considerate kids is somehow a conservative thing. But consideration for others – isn’t that one of the Left’s values?

I look at the way some – though by no means all – kids seem to be being raised among friends and family and I feel like saying: “Don’t you realise you’re raising your kids to be horrible, spiteful, self-centred Tories?”

Thought I’m not saying any generation gets it right – what was it Philip Larkin said about parents?

By: Mindy

Mindy — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:43:50 +0000

I don’t think Helen said that at all Caroline. She said some parents. Not just fathers.

By: Caroline

Caroline — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:44:14 +0000

If introducing horses (!) into this thread Helen is some kind of personal swipe, consider it to have hit it’s mark, albeit somewhat weakly.

I was not suggesting that all parents have a lack of parenting skills. But I take it you’re suggesting that it’s mostly some fathers?

FFS

I give up.

What a waste of time.

By: The Muse

The Muse — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:03:48 +0000

Now let me see if I can follow this.

If someone talks about mothers or working mothers, they may be told “Oh it’s the old story:. You’re telling them/us ‘you’re doing it wrong’ !!!” or they may be advised to visit a Feminism 101 website to educate themselves.

But it’s OK for a fictional character to be called “a huge straw-mother in the shape of an annoying dippy hippy who indulges her very annoying child to the utmost”.

OK, so I think that’s clarified things fairly well.

When some posters use a stereotype or make a judgement on society it’s unfair, and shows their ignorance.

When I use a stereotype or make a judgement then what can anyone disagree with? All’s fair in love and war.