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	<title>Comments on: The end of student politics as we know it?</title>
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	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130641</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 04:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130641</guid>
		<description>The first time I did something political involving the student union was to organize a protest against the Vice-Chancellor&#039;s veto of funding for a new TV studio at the School of Film and Media. This had a direct bearing on my future as the facilities then available were quite sub-standard and that was my chosen major.
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We did quite well. We organized a peaceful and yet highly embarrasing demo sitting in the VC&#039;s office. The Media called it a &#039;peaceful storming&#039;, n&#039;uk. And it worked. We got out studio. Funnily enough the VC was quite chipper when he finally saw the facilties. And my fellow media bots and myself learned a few skills on a professional sound stage with up to date online post-production equipement etc.
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Methinks it is that kind of political activity that the AVCC and the like want to oust. It gets in the way of their Napoleonic sctick. I don&#039;t know whether the SRC was really required for us to do it.
.
On shit-sheeting and electoral propoganda. The way the GUSRC used to do it was to alot a certain portion of resources for the purpose to each candidate. Easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first time I did something political involving the student union was to organize a protest against the Vice-Chancellor&#8217;s veto of funding for a new TV studio at the School of Film and Media. This had a direct bearing on my future as the facilities then available were quite sub-standard and that was my chosen major.<br />
.<br />
We did quite well. We organized a peaceful and yet highly embarrasing demo sitting in the VC&#8217;s office. The Media called it a &#8216;peaceful storming&#8217;, n&#8217;uk. And it worked. We got out studio. Funnily enough the VC was quite chipper when he finally saw the facilties. And my fellow media bots and myself learned a few skills on a professional sound stage with up to date online post-production equipement etc.<br />
.<br />
Methinks it is that kind of political activity that the AVCC and the like want to oust. It gets in the way of their Napoleonic sctick. I don&#8217;t know whether the SRC was really required for us to do it.<br />
.<br />
On shit-sheeting and electoral propoganda. The way the GUSRC used to do it was to alot a certain portion of resources for the purpose to each candidate. Easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130640</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130640</guid>
		<description>This brought back many memories.  Back in the mid 90&#039;s no-one paid for copying their propoganda. The big 3 parties of the time were all at it, often multiple offices of the same party working against each other.

I ran as an &#039;independant&#039; and still did all of my publishing at a different MP&#039;s office to the &#039;official&#039; party sanctioned ticket. In addition to my own material I even printed up a ticket designed to look like an &#039;official&#039; ticket of the senior party but with the preferences reversed.

Good times.

However now that those days are long behind me I agree that student political activity is a waste of taxpayer funds. Someone should stamp it out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This brought back many memories.  Back in the mid 90&#8242;s no-one paid for copying their propoganda. The big 3 parties of the time were all at it, often multiple offices of the same party working against each other.</p>
<p>I ran as an &#8216;independant&#8217; and still did all of my publishing at a different MP&#8217;s office to the &#8216;official&#8217; party sanctioned ticket. In addition to my own material I even printed up a ticket designed to look like an &#8216;official&#8217; ticket of the senior party but with the preferences reversed.</p>
<p>Good times.</p>
<p>However now that those days are long behind me I agree that student political activity is a waste of taxpayer funds. Someone should stamp it out!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Norton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130639</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130639</guid>
		<description>Erstwhile Liberal student activist &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cis.org.au/POLICY/spring05/polspr05-5.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Charles Richardson &lt;/a&gt;points to another reason why the centre-right factions might be more prodigiously prodigal than the lefties - basically that the sort of activities which the centre-right think student unions should be focused on are the sort of activities where the potential for waste and misuse of funds is greatest:



&lt;blockquote&gt;Political activities, even broadly interpreted, accounted for only a small fraction of student union expenditure, and they had at least the semblance of a rationale for collective provision: student representation, it could be argued, was a public good that could not be funded on a user-pays basis. The service activities—catering, sporting clubs, even dental services—were (and are) much more extravagant and much harder to justify in that fashion... The second argument [against voluntary student unionism legislation] came from more moderate critics; they queried why the legislation should go beyond political activities. According to these critics, who showed a sort of benevolent paternalism towards student organisations, the service activities of unions were unobjectionable and should be protected. This argument ignored, due to either ignorance or deceit, the history of unsuccessful attempts to quarantine political expenditure. It also ignored the  fact that waste, as always, was more conspicuous on the services side of student unions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



To which I would add that even greater potential for extravagance and corruption was eventually found in the various business ventures which Labor Right and Liberal student union managements were seduced by from the 1990s onwards, which is basically what brought down the old Melbourne University Student Union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erstwhile Liberal student activist <a href="http://www.cis.org.au/POLICY/spring05/polspr05-5.pdf" rel="nofollow">Charles Richardson </a>points to another reason why the centre-right factions might be more prodigiously prodigal than the lefties &#8211; basically that the sort of activities which the centre-right think student unions should be focused on are the sort of activities where the potential for waste and misuse of funds is greatest:</p>
<blockquote><p>Political activities, even broadly interpreted, accounted for only a small fraction of student union expenditure, and they had at least the semblance of a rationale for collective provision: student representation, it could be argued, was a public good that could not be funded on a user-pays basis. The service activities—catering, sporting clubs, even dental services—were (and are) much more extravagant and much harder to justify in that fashion&#8230; The second argument [against voluntary student unionism legislation] came from more moderate critics; they queried why the legislation should go beyond political activities. According to these critics, who showed a sort of benevolent paternalism towards student organisations, the service activities of unions were unobjectionable and should be protected. This argument ignored, due to either ignorance or deceit, the history of unsuccessful attempts to quarantine political expenditure. It also ignored the  fact that waste, as always, was more conspicuous on the services side of student unions.</p></blockquote>
<p>To which I would add that even greater potential for extravagance and corruption was eventually found in the various business ventures which Labor Right and Liberal student union managements were seduced by from the 1990s onwards, which is basically what brought down the old Melbourne University Student Union.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130638</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130638</guid>
		<description>Norm - &lt;i&gt;I would dispute however the article’s assertion of being student focused and being politically aligned as being mutually exclusive, the disgraceful rorting that went on by Unity in MUSU and Griffith and by the Libs at UNE aside,&lt;/i&gt;
.
Rorting. But they were the Clean Team. Weren;t they? You could also add the bankruocy of the Meb Uni Student Union a few years back. The Libs or the ALP Right were repsonsible I&#039;ve heard conflicting accounts. That said I&#039;ve seen plenty of rorts across the board by various groups. The mainstream parties do it better. They&#039;re professionals.
.
&lt;i&gt;the great majority of people involved in student politics are there for the right reasons and genuinely care about the welfare of students and the quality of the education they receive.&lt;/i&gt;
.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Oh I am sorry. I think perhaps I might share a diferent perception. I, for example, did try 70% of the time to be a good hack. But the process totally alienated me from non-hacks. I didn&#039;t know who they were. I think it&#039;s called parliamentary idiocy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norm &#8211; <i>I would dispute however the article’s assertion of being student focused and being politically aligned as being mutually exclusive, the disgraceful rorting that went on by Unity in MUSU and Griffith and by the Libs at UNE aside,</i><br />
.<br />
Rorting. But they were the Clean Team. Weren;t they? You could also add the bankruocy of the Meb Uni Student Union a few years back. The Libs or the ALP Right were repsonsible I&#8217;ve heard conflicting accounts. That said I&#8217;ve seen plenty of rorts across the board by various groups. The mainstream parties do it better. They&#8217;re professionals.<br />
.<br />
<i>the great majority of people involved in student politics are there for the right reasons and genuinely care about the welfare of students and the quality of the education they receive.</i><br />
.<br />
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<br />
.<br />
Oh I am sorry. I think perhaps I might share a diferent perception. I, for example, did try 70% of the time to be a good hack. But the process totally alienated me from non-hacks. I didn&#8217;t know who they were. I think it&#8217;s called parliamentary idiocy.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130637</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130637</guid>
		<description>&quot;the great majority of people involved in student politics are there for the right reasons and genuinely care about the &lt;strike&gt;welfare&lt;/strike&gt; relationship status of students and the quality of the &lt;strike&gt;education&lt;/strike&gt; discount alcohol they receive&quot;

But yeah, also with the do-gooders. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the great majority of people involved in student politics are there for the right reasons and genuinely care about the <strike>welfare</strike> relationship status of students and the quality of the <strike>education</strike> discount alcohol they receive&#8221;</p>
<p>But yeah, also with the do-gooders. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Norton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130636</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130636</guid>
		<description>Norman #29 wrote:



&lt;blockquote&gt;I would dispute however the article’s assertion of being student focused and being politically aligned as being mutually exclusive, the disgraceful rorting that went on by Unity in MUSU and Griffith and by the Libs at UNE aside, the great majority of people involved in student politics are there for the right reasons and genuinely care about the welfare of students and the quality of the education they receive.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A fair point.  Whilst I didn&#039;t intend to suggest that being politically aligned and being student-focused were mutually exclusive, I probably shoud have worded the relevant sentence more circumspectly to preclude such an interpretation.  The main point I was trying to make is that access to electorate office printing resources gave those groups with such access an unfair and unjustifiable advantage over those who lacked such access and lacked other forms of major institutional backing.

What I think can also be said with reasonable confidence is:

(a) That political alignment and the associated political convictions can shape how activists conceive of &quot;the welfare of students and the quality of the education they receive&quot;.

(b) That situations can arise when an elected student representative&#039;s obligations to students and their external party or factional commitments can come into conflict, for instance when conflicting calls are made on their time (which I&#039;ve known to happen) or when mutual hostility between factions or parties external to the student union causes people to be unwilling to cooperate on student-related issues on which no real disagreement exists (which I&#039;ve also seen happen).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norman #29 wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I would dispute however the article’s assertion of being student focused and being politically aligned as being mutually exclusive, the disgraceful rorting that went on by Unity in MUSU and Griffith and by the Libs at UNE aside, the great majority of people involved in student politics are there for the right reasons and genuinely care about the welfare of students and the quality of the education they receive.</p></blockquote>
<p>A fair point.  Whilst I didn&#8217;t intend to suggest that being politically aligned and being student-focused were mutually exclusive, I probably shoud have worded the relevant sentence more circumspectly to preclude such an interpretation.  The main point I was trying to make is that access to electorate office printing resources gave those groups with such access an unfair and unjustifiable advantage over those who lacked such access and lacked other forms of major institutional backing.</p>
<p>What I think can also be said with reasonable confidence is:</p>
<p>(a) That political alignment and the associated political convictions can shape how activists conceive of &#8220;the welfare of students and the quality of the education they receive&#8221;.</p>
<p>(b) That situations can arise when an elected student representative&#8217;s obligations to students and their external party or factional commitments can come into conflict, for instance when conflicting calls are made on their time (which I&#8217;ve known to happen) or when mutual hostility between factions or parties external to the student union causes people to be unwilling to cooperate on student-related issues on which no real disagreement exists (which I&#8217;ve also seen happen).</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130635</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130635</guid>
		<description>Cheers, spamdra742!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers, spamdra742!</p>
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		<title>By: sandra742</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130634</link>
		<dc:creator>sandra742</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130634</guid>
		<description>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog.  :) Cheers! Sandra. R.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post&#8230; nice! I love your blog.  <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Cheers! Sandra. R.</p>
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		<title>By: feral sparrowhawk</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130633</link>
		<dc:creator>feral sparrowhawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130633</guid>
		<description>When part of a coalition between the Labor left and non-Labor left groups I was once asigned to do the photocopying at the office of a now cabinet minister. I was a bit nervous and even decided to bring paper I&#039;d paid for out of my own pocket. The staff pretty much laughed at my ethics. I was even assured it was legal.

A couple of years later, with the coalition broken down I&#039;ll admit I abused the copier of an independent MP, but at the time it seemed necessary to combat the fact that our opponents had access to many times as many tax-payer funded publications. These days most Labor and Liberal students I meet don&#039;t even seem to think there is anything wrong with it, which I find even more disturbing than the &quot;well yes its not bad, but the other side do it so we need to&quot; attitude I developed by the end.

On the other hand, I had one conversation with a campus Green who was so ethical about things she said she would refuse access to the party&#039;s own photocopier if it was offered, let alone those of the MPs. I thought that was taking things to extremes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When part of a coalition between the Labor left and non-Labor left groups I was once asigned to do the photocopying at the office of a now cabinet minister. I was a bit nervous and even decided to bring paper I&#8217;d paid for out of my own pocket. The staff pretty much laughed at my ethics. I was even assured it was legal.</p>
<p>A couple of years later, with the coalition broken down I&#8217;ll admit I abused the copier of an independent MP, but at the time it seemed necessary to combat the fact that our opponents had access to many times as many tax-payer funded publications. These days most Labor and Liberal students I meet don&#8217;t even seem to think there is anything wrong with it, which I find even more disturbing than the &#8220;well yes its not bad, but the other side do it so we need to&#8221; attitude I developed by the end.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I had one conversation with a campus Green who was so ethical about things she said she would refuse access to the party&#8217;s own photocopier if it was offered, let alone those of the MPs. I thought that was taking things to extremes.</p>
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		<title>By: dylwah</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/09/the-end-of-student-politics-as-we-know-it/#comment-130632</link>
		<dc:creator>dylwah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9875#comment-130632</guid>
		<description>no port thanks, i&#039;ll stick to my lager.  Man we missed out being in a territory.  there was some printing done at a big house far away, but the individual that provided it didn&#039;t stick to party lines, tho one side was definatly favoured.  i noticed it all changed after &quot;self government&quot;, and the electoral paper storm got more professional.

Adrian - &quot;Well, Paul, I was briefly associated with a local (trying to be a) Green Campus Club and, I can tell ya, they don’t even get advice. So you’re clean.&quot;  I knew a &quot;Green Campus Club&quot; that got their printing done at the office of a local rep of one of the major parties, but that was pre federal greens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no port thanks, i&#8217;ll stick to my lager.  Man we missed out being in a territory.  there was some printing done at a big house far away, but the individual that provided it didn&#8217;t stick to party lines, tho one side was definatly favoured.  i noticed it all changed after &#8220;self government&#8221;, and the electoral paper storm got more professional.</p>
<p>Adrian &#8211; &#8220;Well, Paul, I was briefly associated with a local (trying to be a) Green Campus Club and, I can tell ya, they don’t even get advice. So you’re clean.&#8221;  I knew a &#8220;Green Campus Club&#8221; that got their printing done at the office of a local rep of one of the major parties, but that was pre federal greens.</p>
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