Comments on: Lazy Sunday! http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:37:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Paul Burns http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133018 Paul Burns Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:48:55 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133018 Correction: looming French revolutionary wars. Macarthur was supposed to go to Gibraltar but there weren't any business opportunitie there. Correction: looming French revolutionary wars. Macarthur was supposed to go to Gibraltar but there weren’t any business opportunitie there.

]]> By: Paul Burns http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133017 Paul Burns Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:37:14 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133017 Patricia WA, Grose undoubtedly died of the effects of the war wounds he received in the taking of Fort Montgomery and the Battle of Monmouth Courthouse During the American War of Independence. As to the nature of the wounds I can't be specific as I haven't reseached his part in those later American campaigns as yet. He was barely twenty at Lexington Concord and the Battle of Bunker Hill. Both those battles were, for the English, among the most horrendous of the war and his later conduct in New South Wales, including his inability to effectively accept responsibility and his tendency to shy away from personal conflict with his fellow officers seem to indicate that he may have suffered severely from post traumatic stress syndrome as a consequence of his excperiences in the American war.(Apart from the fact that he was totally imbued with the Army officer culture in, for example, his tolerance of drunkenness, and to a lesser extent his lack of sympathy for civilians. His distaste for the lash and the death penalty may also be a consequence of his experiences in America. The Army's Adjutant=general there, whose name I can't recall off the top of my head had quite a lenient policy in regard to this.His granting of land to fellow officers was normal conduct in the colonies, and he simply adopted it here. The difference with Grose and Paterson re land grants compared to Phillip and his successors up to and including Bligh probably comes down to the fact that Grose and Paterson were Army and the others were Navy. (Re America, and this holds true for WW2 as well, they might as well have been fighting different wars.) Similarly his difficulties with the Methodistical Richard Johnson almost certainly arose from his experiences with American clergy. 90% of New England clergymen supported the rebels. As yet I don't have the figures for the Middle and Southern colonies. I have to do more work on this so these latter conclusions are tentative at the moment. He specifically resigned his post as Lieutenant Governor here because of the effect of those war wounds. [HRNSW, Vol. 2, pp.215-16 and note give details.) When his regiment left America he was left behind because his wounds made it impossible for him to travel. He was invalided out of the army on his eventual return to England after the war. I suspect the command of the NSW Corps and the Lieutenant Governorship was possibly givewn to him in recognition of his bravery in America. (Unlike some of the NSW Corps (Macarthur in particuliar he did not want a posting to NSW to avoid service in the French Revolutionary Wars.) I am tentatively forming the conclusion he has got a bad press from Australian historians, though I wouldn't say this for manyof the others in the NSW Corps. Hope this answers your query. (That blog of mine can be a bugger for commenting. Best to register with Google.) Patricia WA,
Grose undoubtedly died of the effects of the war wounds he received in the taking of Fort Montgomery and the Battle of Monmouth Courthouse During the American War of Independence. As to the nature of the wounds I can’t be specific as I haven’t reseached his part in those later American campaigns as yet.
He was barely twenty at Lexington Concord and the Battle of Bunker Hill. Both those battles were, for the English, among the most horrendous of the war and his later conduct in New South Wales, including his inability to effectively accept responsibility and his tendency to shy away from personal conflict with his fellow officers seem to indicate that he may have suffered severely from post traumatic stress syndrome as a consequence of his excperiences in the American war.(Apart from the fact that he was totally imbued with the Army officer culture in, for example, his tolerance of drunkenness, and to a lesser extent his lack of sympathy for civilians. His distaste for the lash and the death penalty may also be a consequence of his experiences in America. The Army’s Adjutant=general there, whose name I can’t recall off the top of my head had quite a lenient policy in regard to this.His granting of land to fellow officers was normal conduct in the colonies, and he simply adopted it here. The difference with Grose and Paterson re land grants compared to Phillip and his successors up to and including Bligh probably comes down to the fact that Grose and Paterson were Army and the others were Navy. (Re America, and this holds true for WW2 as well, they might as well have been fighting different wars.)

Similarly his difficulties with the Methodistical Richard Johnson almost certainly arose from his experiences with American clergy. 90% of New England clergymen supported the rebels. As yet I don’t have the figures for the Middle and Southern colonies. I have to do more work on this so these latter conclusions are tentative at the moment.
He specifically resigned his post as Lieutenant Governor here because of the effect of those war wounds. [HRNSW, Vol. 2, pp.215-16 and note give details.) When his regiment left America he was left behind because his wounds made it impossible for him to travel. He was invalided out of the army on his eventual return to England after the war.
I suspect the command of the NSW Corps and the Lieutenant Governorship was possibly givewn to him in recognition of his bravery in America. (Unlike some of the NSW Corps (Macarthur in particuliar he did not want a posting to NSW to avoid service in the French Revolutionary Wars.)
I am tentatively forming the conclusion he has got a bad press from Australian historians, though I wouldn’t say this for manyof the others in the NSW Corps.

Hope this answers your query. (That blog of mine can be a bugger for commenting. Best to register with Google.)

]]> By: Patricia WA http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133016 Patricia WA Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:16:22 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133016 Paul@16 - hardly a wasted Sunday by my indolent standards! I was very intrigued by the history of Francis Grose and particularly of his wife Elizabeth. My Georgette Heyer alter ego leapt into life as I read that she married him just one month before he died in May 1814. Was it possible they had met in 1794 when her then husband William Paterson took over from Grose as Lt. Gov. of NSW? Was his death in 1814 sudden and unexpected or was he fulfilling a long unmet desire to marry his now widowed and one true love even on his deathbed? I did try a comment at your site but was unable to meet any of the profile requirements. Paul@16 – hardly a wasted Sunday by my indolent standards! I was very intrigued by the history of Francis Grose and particularly of his wife Elizabeth. My Georgette Heyer alter ego leapt into life as I read that she married him just one month before he died in May 1814. Was it possible they had met in 1794 when her then husband William Paterson took over from Grose as Lt. Gov. of NSW? Was his death in 1814 sudden and unexpected or was he fulfilling a long unmet desire to marry his now widowed and one true love even on his deathbed?

I did try a comment at your site but was unable to meet any of the profile requirements.

]]> By: Helen http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133015 Helen Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:00:06 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133015 On my last Lazy Sunday I had the best chips I'd ever eaten cooked by Bro at his Gippsland country seat - Gippsland King Edward(?) spuds which had only that afternoon been dragged kicking and screaming from the earth. Took some more home and steamed them. On my last Lazy Sunday I had the best chips I’d ever eaten cooked by Bro at his Gippsland country seat – Gippsland King Edward(?) spuds which had only that afternoon been dragged kicking and screaming from the earth. Took some more home and steamed them.

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133014 FDB Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:03:19 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133014 Here in Brunswick you gotta watch or the spuds'll shiv you in the dunnies. Here in Brunswick you gotta watch or the spuds’ll shiv you in the dunnies.

]]> By: Helen http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133013 Helen Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:41:09 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133013 Cheers David. :-) Cheers David. :-)

]]> By: David C (aka Smiley) http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133012 David C (aka Smiley) Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:09:49 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133012 Helen, You're right, I was acting like a jerk. When I come to think of it the young woman was probably under a lot more pressure than what I realised at the time. And ultimately she made a mighty fine choice as far as I'm concerned. And that really is all that counts. Cheers. Helen,

You’re right, I was acting like a jerk. When I come to think of it the young woman was probably under a lot more pressure than what I realised at the time. And ultimately she made a mighty fine choice as far as I’m concerned. And that really is all that counts.

Cheers.

]]> By: Nabakov http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133011 Nabakov Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:27:22 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133011 "you have to be aggressive to get a seat at pub meal in melb at the weekend." Cue STAP strenuously denouncing Melbourne counter meal steaks as not a patch on the authentic QLD 18 ouncer. "And we catch and kill our own potatoes unlike you effete inner city mob." “you have to be aggressive to get a seat at pub meal in melb at the weekend.”

Cue STAP strenuously denouncing Melbourne counter meal steaks as not a patch on the authentic QLD 18 ouncer. “And we catch and kill our own potatoes unlike you effete inner city mob.”

]]> By: Nabakov http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133010 Nabakov Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:18:46 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133010 "I decided to leave her in her ignorance and was kind of gland that I didn’t get the job. Language is definitely not my forte." Oh I don't know. "was kind of gland" was a marvelously Joycean interjection into an otherwise predictable narrative. "I guess my point is that in an egalitarian society, where women are given more opportunities..." Then it wouldn't be an egalitarian society would it? In a truly egalitarian society, the operative word here would be not "more" but "enough". "...we should be prepared to call them on their BS in the same way that we call males on theirs." Absolfuckinglutely. Unfortunately the target selection workwise is rather limited here at the moment. Perhaps if we had as many incompetent women in responsible positions as we do incompetent men? “I decided to leave her in her ignorance and was kind of gland that I didn’t get the job. Language is definitely not my forte.”

Oh I don’t know. “was kind of gland” was a marvelously Joycean interjection into an otherwise predictable narrative.

“I guess my point is that in an egalitarian society, where women are given more opportunities…”

Then it wouldn’t be an egalitarian society would it? In a truly egalitarian society, the operative word here would be not “more” but “enough”.

“…we should be prepared to call them on their BS in the same way that we call males on theirs.”

Absolfuckinglutely. Unfortunately the target selection workwise is rather limited here at the moment. Perhaps if we had as many incompetent women in responsible positions as we do incompetent men?

]]> By: fxh http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/09/13/lazy-sunday-77/#comment-133009 fxh Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:41:27 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=9912#comment-133009 steve - as fdb said - you have to be aggressive to get a seat at pub meal in melb at the weekend. Unless you are serving crappy tough slab of chewy old chopper and calling it steak served with greasey chips and a slab of tinned beetroot. But you wouldn't b e would you? steve – as fdb said – you have to be aggressive to get a seat at pub meal in melb at the weekend. Unless you are serving crappy tough slab of chewy old chopper and calling it steak served with greasey chips and a slab of tinned beetroot. But you wouldn’t b e would you?

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