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	<title>Comments on: Ben Naparstek, The Monthly and the Julia Gillard &quot;biography wars&quot;</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: David Irving (no relation)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125580</link>
		<dc:creator>David Irving (no relation)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 01:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125580</guid>
		<description>I think we call that &quot;dry humping&quot;, Mark @ 105 ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we call that &#8220;dry humping&#8221;, Mark @ 105 &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125579</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125579</guid>
		<description>I should clarify that the frottage craze at UQ was for consenting frotteurs in private.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should clarify that the frottage craze at UQ was for consenting frotteurs in private.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125578</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125578</guid>
		<description>Oh, what an innocent mind I&#039;ve got. That never even occurred to me, PC. Seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, what an innocent mind I&#8217;ve got. That never even occurred to me, PC. Seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125577</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125577</guid>
		<description>Every schoolgirl and ex-schoolgirl who&#039;s ever caught a crowded bus or tram has known about it from the age of about 13, Paul. Next time you see some woman being stern about blokes, reflect on what lifetime of untold experience might be behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every schoolgirl and ex-schoolgirl who&#8217;s ever caught a crowded bus or tram has known about it from the age of about 13, Paul. Next time you see some woman being stern about blokes, reflect on what lifetime of untold experience might be behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125576</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125576</guid>
		<description>I knew I&#039;d heard of it happening somewhere in Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew I&#8217;d heard of it happening somewhere in Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125575</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125575</guid>
		<description>There was a big frottage craze at UQ in late 92. Just sayin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a big frottage craze at UQ in late 92. Just sayin&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Jones</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125574</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 05:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There are wider meanings to the word - was conjuring up the idea of dressing in respectable garb, carrying out unwelcome and somewhat crude actions that resemble something else entirely! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are wider meanings to the word &#8211; was conjuring up the idea of dressing in respectable garb, carrying out unwelcome and somewhat crude actions that resemble something else entirely! <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125573</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125573</guid>
		<description>Thanks Roger - that&#039;s a nice way to end this exhausted thread - I get to learn a new, useful word:

frotteurism: The act of rubbing one’s genitalia against another’s person, usually that of a stranger. Must be non-consensual and is considered a psychiatric condition as well as a criminal offense in most places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Roger &#8211; that&#8217;s a nice way to end this exhausted thread &#8211; I get to learn a new, useful word:</p>
<p>frotteurism: The act of rubbing one’s genitalia against another’s person, usually that of a stranger. Must be non-consensual and is considered a psychiatric condition as well as a criminal offense in most places.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Jones</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125572</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125572</guid>
		<description>Ok Russell, the comment on scholarship was not aimed at this particular issue. It&#039;s in reference to those who would deny knowledge and the conventions of knowledge-based publication to push their own point of view - but as you say there are standards.

So for this issue, scratch any reference to scholarly and substitute respect.
Entertainment is fine, if that&#039;s all &lt;em&gt;The Monthly&lt;/em&gt; or any similar publication wants to do. Though if there&#039;s a pretense to be anything more, where we have an author writing a biography reviewing another biography on the same subject, it&#039;s frotteurism. Standards/respect. Kind of go together, really.

And yes, watching what you say lest it be misused is very tiring. Seen Patchauri (head of IPCC) on telly lately? Bloke is absolutely fed up with providing the same careful responses to the same denialist rubbish ad nauseum. I love doing satire, but can&#039;t mix levity, irony or black humour with any serious comment. It shows how important words and meaning are, and why people who rely on them can become tetchy when they&#039;re used cheaply in what they see as an inappropriate context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok Russell, the comment on scholarship was not aimed at this particular issue. It&#8217;s in reference to those who would deny knowledge and the conventions of knowledge-based publication to push their own point of view &#8211; but as you say there are standards.</p>
<p>So for this issue, scratch any reference to scholarly and substitute respect.<br />
Entertainment is fine, if that&#8217;s all <em>The Monthly</em> or any similar publication wants to do. Though if there&#8217;s a pretense to be anything more, where we have an author writing a biography reviewing another biography on the same subject, it&#8217;s frotteurism. Standards/respect. Kind of go together, really.</p>
<p>And yes, watching what you say lest it be misused is very tiring. Seen Patchauri (head of IPCC) on telly lately? Bloke is absolutely fed up with providing the same careful responses to the same denialist rubbish ad nauseum. I love doing satire, but can&#8217;t mix levity, irony or black humour with any serious comment. It shows how important words and meaning are, and why people who rely on them can become tetchy when they&#8217;re used cheaply in what they see as an inappropriate context.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/03/ben-naparsek-the-monthly-and-the-julia-gillard-biography-wars/#comment-125571</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10217#comment-125571</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have to maintain an ethical stance at all times when making any kind of public comment&quot; - that sounds awfully tiring Roger.

Surely context and conventions play a part? When you mention people who &quot;have no respect for any scholarly medium or for scholarship itself&quot; it makes me think: the authors aren&#039;t scholars, the books aren&#039;t scholarly, The Monthly isn&#039;t a scholarly journal ... so why would I expect the conventions of scholarship to be observed?

Look at another review in the same issue - Robert Manne reviewing Paul Kelly&#039;s new book. Manne tells us that Kelly is a chameleon type who takes on the mindset of whoever is in power etc etc. This is not scholarly reviewing - but it&#039;s the standard of discourse at The Monthly, a magazine that has a line, a point of view, a style. It might be bad mannered for Wallace to trash the other author&#039;s book, but I don&#039;t see it as much of an ethics issue since she doesn&#039;t pretend that she&#039;s disinterested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have to maintain an ethical stance at all times when making any kind of public comment&#8221; &#8211; that sounds awfully tiring Roger.</p>
<p>Surely context and conventions play a part? When you mention people who &#8220;have no respect for any scholarly medium or for scholarship itself&#8221; it makes me think: the authors aren&#8217;t scholars, the books aren&#8217;t scholarly, The Monthly isn&#8217;t a scholarly journal &#8230; so why would I expect the conventions of scholarship to be observed?</p>
<p>Look at another review in the same issue &#8211; Robert Manne reviewing Paul Kelly&#8217;s new book. Manne tells us that Kelly is a chameleon type who takes on the mindset of whoever is in power etc etc. This is not scholarly reviewing &#8211; but it&#8217;s the standard of discourse at The Monthly, a magazine that has a line, a point of view, a style. It might be bad mannered for Wallace to trash the other author&#8217;s book, but I don&#8217;t see it as much of an ethics issue since she doesn&#8217;t pretend that she&#8217;s disinterested.</p>
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