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	<title>Comments on: Freedom of conscience</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128808</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128808</guid>
		<description>The job of executioner is a speciality, Spana. You have to apply for it specially-like. They don&#039;t just get the janitor to do it on his lunch break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The job of executioner is a speciality, Spana. You have to apply for it specially-like. They don&#8217;t just get the janitor to do it on his lunch break.</p>
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		<title>By: Hypocrattes</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128807</link>
		<dc:creator>Hypocrattes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128807</guid>
		<description>To the state fascists above.


The relevant colleges - surgeon, physician, GP, obstetrics, etc. - overwhelmingly run the ethical, practice, treatment requirements, protocols, and guidelines that doctors are subject to; not the legislature. If YOU want Wilson Tuckey and Tony Abbott in charge of dictating how doctors should think, YOU are free to get the very next cab to the airport.


Every single doctor in this country would have objections to deny certain treatments, procedures, for any of one or more of a million reasons - ethical, moral, aesthetic, ill-informed, dictatorial, right-before-his/her-time. For example, there are now many medical practices that will not prescribe benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, etc), despite these medicines being totally legal and a tremendously significant and globally-acknowledged source of palliative care for a great many maladies. Similarly, the psychiatric colleges are split on ECT. Many see modern ECT treatments as a godsend for certain mood disorders, while others see ECT as evil as the most rabid anti-abortionist sees abortion, and thus will not perform them.


Just as it should not be the university&#039;s job to fix up atrocious schooling by admitting imbeciles, I see no reason why an anti-abortion GP should be obliged to do anything more than say &quot;m&#039;am, you have come to the wrong place, I am not an abortionist, and just as you do not require a GP&#039;s referral for Botox, or admission to the ER, you do not need one for an abortion. Good day to you&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the state fascists above.</p>
<p>The relevant colleges &#8211; surgeon, physician, GP, obstetrics, etc. &#8211; overwhelmingly run the ethical, practice, treatment requirements, protocols, and guidelines that doctors are subject to; not the legislature. If YOU want Wilson Tuckey and Tony Abbott in charge of dictating how doctors should think, YOU are free to get the very next cab to the airport.</p>
<p>Every single doctor in this country would have objections to deny certain treatments, procedures, for any of one or more of a million reasons &#8211; ethical, moral, aesthetic, ill-informed, dictatorial, right-before-his/her-time. For example, there are now many medical practices that will not prescribe benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, etc), despite these medicines being totally legal and a tremendously significant and globally-acknowledged source of palliative care for a great many maladies. Similarly, the psychiatric colleges are split on ECT. Many see modern ECT treatments as a godsend for certain mood disorders, while others see ECT as evil as the most rabid anti-abortionist sees abortion, and thus will not perform them.</p>
<p>Just as it should not be the university&#8217;s job to fix up atrocious schooling by admitting imbeciles, I see no reason why an anti-abortion GP should be obliged to do anything more than say &#8220;m&#8217;am, you have come to the wrong place, I am not an abortionist, and just as you do not require a GP&#8217;s referral for Botox, or admission to the ER, you do not need one for an abortion. Good day to you&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Spana</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128806</link>
		<dc:creator>Spana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128806</guid>
		<description>Coming at this from a different perspective is how absolutley unnecessary this law is and how it is really an act of provocation by the abortion lobby. No pro life doctor will obey this law. Put yourself in the situation as a public servant who was ordered to flick the switch on an electric chair or lose your job. Most on here oppose capital punishment. How many of you would obey the law and kill the prisoner or would you sell out your beliefs and keep your job? Doctors who believe abortion is killing will not follow this law. Secondly, how may life endangering situations arise where there only happens to be a pro life doctor around? None! Once again, pro or anti abortion, this law can only be viewd as an attack on basic rights to freedom of thought and conscience. It once again shows that the left is only concerned about those things when it effects their conscience.

Oh yeah. I await answers from those who woul kill the prisoner and keep their job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming at this from a different perspective is how absolutley unnecessary this law is and how it is really an act of provocation by the abortion lobby. No pro life doctor will obey this law. Put yourself in the situation as a public servant who was ordered to flick the switch on an electric chair or lose your job. Most on here oppose capital punishment. How many of you would obey the law and kill the prisoner or would you sell out your beliefs and keep your job? Doctors who believe abortion is killing will not follow this law. Secondly, how may life endangering situations arise where there only happens to be a pro life doctor around? None! Once again, pro or anti abortion, this law can only be viewd as an attack on basic rights to freedom of thought and conscience. It once again shows that the left is only concerned about those things when it effects their conscience.</p>
<p>Oh yeah. I await answers from those who woul kill the prisoner and keep their job.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128805</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128805</guid>
		<description>Because I can&#039;t seem to do proper trackbacks either, here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/10/nemo-dat-v-bona-fide/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;manual version&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because I can&#8217;t seem to do proper trackbacks either, here&#8217;s a <a href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/10/nemo-dat-v-bona-fide/" rel="nofollow">manual version</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128804</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128804</guid>
		<description>This &lt;a&gt;Serbian psychiatrist&lt;/a&gt; appears to have held strongly held views, and acted upon them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This <a>Serbian psychiatrist</a> appears to have held strongly held views, and acted upon them.</p>
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		<title>By: chinda63</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128803</link>
		<dc:creator>chinda63</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128803</guid>
		<description>Spana - where do you draw the &quot;conscience&quot; line?

I know a Christian woman who firmly believes that God put different coloured people on the earth in different places specifically because He intended them to live apart.  She is physically and morally repulsed by the sight of anyone who isn&#039;t of the exact ethnicity as her, believing that they shouldn&#039;t be in her corner of the world.  To her this is a core spiritual belief; part of being a good God-fearing Christian.  To us it is ridiculous and a misrepresentation of Biblical text, but there you go.  But what if she were a doctor?

Would it be okay for her to pick and choose her patients and be driven by her own conscience and belief system?

Is it okay for a Jewish doctor to use his &quot;conscience&quot; to refuse to treat a woman wearing a hijab?

Or an Indian doctor refusing to deal with Pakistani patients?

Legislating in such a way as to give people leeway for their conscience will aways lead to problems because there will aways be those who feel the need to deny the human rights of others, especially when they themselves are in a position of power and/or privilege.

A quick look at the history of any civil rights movement will give you ample proof of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spana &#8211; where do you draw the &#8220;conscience&#8221; line?</p>
<p>I know a Christian woman who firmly believes that God put different coloured people on the earth in different places specifically because He intended them to live apart.  She is physically and morally repulsed by the sight of anyone who isn&#8217;t of the exact ethnicity as her, believing that they shouldn&#8217;t be in her corner of the world.  To her this is a core spiritual belief; part of being a good God-fearing Christian.  To us it is ridiculous and a misrepresentation of Biblical text, but there you go.  But what if she were a doctor?</p>
<p>Would it be okay for her to pick and choose her patients and be driven by her own conscience and belief system?</p>
<p>Is it okay for a Jewish doctor to use his &#8220;conscience&#8221; to refuse to treat a woman wearing a hijab?</p>
<p>Or an Indian doctor refusing to deal with Pakistani patients?</p>
<p>Legislating in such a way as to give people leeway for their conscience will aways lead to problems because there will aways be those who feel the need to deny the human rights of others, especially when they themselves are in a position of power and/or privilege.</p>
<p>A quick look at the history of any civil rights movement will give you ample proof of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernice</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128802</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128802</guid>
		<description>Sorry - that question is in relation to existing definitions of malpractice as well as the legislation in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry &#8211; that question is in relation to existing definitions of malpractice as well as the legislation in question.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Winter</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128801</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Winter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128801</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just going to put my foot down now, and remind you that this thread is not about the morality of abortion, and it is even less about infanticide.

Seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just going to put my foot down now, and remind you that this thread is not about the morality of abortion, and it is even less about infanticide.</p>
<p>Seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernice</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128800</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128800</guid>
		<description>Legal question - if a doctor refuses to do the procedure, and refuses to provide information as to alternative practitioners to a woman for whom an abortion is required because of medical complications, would the refusing doctor then be culpable of malpractice in the event of &#039;poor medical outcomes&#039; either later in the pregnancy, during the birth or postpartum. And would charges of malpractice also extend to the resulting baby if it also suffered medical problems?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legal question &#8211; if a doctor refuses to do the procedure, and refuses to provide information as to alternative practitioners to a woman for whom an abortion is required because of medical complications, would the refusing doctor then be culpable of malpractice in the event of &#8216;poor medical outcomes&#8217; either later in the pregnancy, during the birth or postpartum. And would charges of malpractice also extend to the resulting baby if it also suffered medical problems?</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/10/27/freedom-of-conscience/#comment-128799</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10526#comment-128799</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;No Sam, you are adopting the view that if the state gives an order it must be obeyed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Um, yes. It&#039;s called &quot;the law&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>No Sam, you are adopting the view that if the state gives an order it must be obeyed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Um, yes. It&#8217;s called &#8220;the law&#8221;.</p>
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