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	<title>Comments on: Denial on parade</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: keIThY</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836334</link>
		<dc:creator>keIThY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836334</guid>
		<description>Wilful , the only people who throw the word Chernobyl around like it was hot sauce are the pro-Nuclear trying to desperately find an element of leverage. Industry doesn&#039;t need Nuclear Power unless already addicted to it! *** Addictions are hard to break! *** Face it: those people who are preaching it just want to bury other peoples waste as an easy way to balance the budget!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilful , the only people who throw the word Chernobyl around like it was hot sauce are the pro-Nuclear trying to desperately find an element of leverage. Industry doesn&#8217;t need Nuclear Power unless already addicted to it! *** Addictions are hard to break! *** Face it: those people who are preaching it just want to bury other peoples waste as an easy way to balance the budget!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836327</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836327</guid>
		<description>Ah, Chaucer. [Sighs for lost days of colourful days wild orthography brought to an end by that evil genius of the eighteenth century, Dr. Samuel Johnson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Chaucer. [Sighs for lost days of colourful days wild orthography brought to an end by that evil genius of the eighteenth century, Dr. Samuel Johnson.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836298</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836298</guid>
		<description>@108 - thanks, Peter! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@108 &#8211; thanks, Peter! <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: wilful</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836295</link>
		<dc:creator>wilful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836295</guid>
		<description>Keithy, I&#039;d be perfectly happy if there was a reactor where the newport gas power station is, just a few klicks down the road. Except I&#039;m not sure about cooling water, but in principle I have absolutely no problem if reactors were put anywhere that&#039;s appropriate for a large industrial facility.

Modern nuclear power plants are ridiculously safe, only a completely irrational and uninformed person (of which there are plenty) could be the remotest bit concerned about risks of an accident. They essentially don&#039;t happen. 

Please don&#039;t quote chernobyl back at me (or rather, feel free to, if you want to talk complete irrelevancies).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keithy, I&#8217;d be perfectly happy if there was a reactor where the newport gas power station is, just a few klicks down the road. Except I&#8217;m not sure about cooling water, but in principle I have absolutely no problem if reactors were put anywhere that&#8217;s appropriate for a large industrial facility.</p>
<p>Modern nuclear power plants are ridiculously safe, only a completely irrational and uninformed person (of which there are plenty) could be the remotest bit concerned about risks of an accident. They essentially don&#8217;t happen. </p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t quote chernobyl back at me (or rather, feel free to, if you want to talk complete irrelevancies).</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kemp</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836240</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836240</guid>
		<description>And the &quot;fetish&quot; for us at school Mark was definitely the Millers Tale but not necessarily the verb object word order of that pre-internet soft prOn.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the &#8220;fetish&#8221; for us at school Mark was definitely the Millers Tale but not necessarily the verb object word order of that pre-internet soft prOn.  <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kemp</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836238</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836238</guid>
		<description>I, Herr Doktor Bahnisch corrected stand. :-) 

(and congratulations if I had forgotten at the time!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, Herr Doktor Bahnisch corrected stand. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>(and congratulations if I had forgotten at the time!)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836189</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836189</guid>
		<description>And hehe. :)

Though if you read a bit of Chaucerian and Elizabethan literature, I reckon English lost something when it fetishised the subject verb object word order!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And hehe. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Though if you read a bit of Chaucerian and Elizabethan literature, I reckon English lost something when it fetishised the subject verb object word order!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836188</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836188</guid>
		<description>Herr Doktor Bahnisch, please Peter! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herr Doktor Bahnisch, please Peter! <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Roger Jones</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836181</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836181</guid>
		<description>peter kemp,

he speaking yoda, he is</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>peter kemp,</p>
<p>he speaking yoda, he is</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kemp</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836155</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836155</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Civil liberties lawyers and economists do not a strong social force make – they exercise influence in other ways, but don’t provide the building blocks for a strong political party.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As one who belongs to the former group I must say, reluctantly, I agree with that statement Herr Bahnisch, but the construction of that 1st sentence, does it not denote some reversion to certain ancestry?

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Civil liberties lawyers and economists do not a strong social force make – they exercise influence in other ways, but don’t provide the building blocks for a strong political party.</p></blockquote>
<p>As one who belongs to the former group I must say, reluctantly, I agree with that statement Herr Bahnisch, but the construction of that 1st sentence, does it not denote some reversion to certain ancestry?<br />
 <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: furious balancing</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836105</link>
		<dc:creator>furious balancing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836105</guid>
		<description>I think the greatest hope for rural Australia is actually a carbon economy.  The NFF position statement on the CPRS is actually a genuinely conservative position, which is why Joyce&#039;s position is such a joke and such a traitor to his constituency.  

I thought the limiting factors for biosequestration were only short-term problems.  ie: the scientific data for each land-type/usage is not there yet.  I know it&#039;s being done, or at least it is in some of the ecotypes I work in.  

Mind you there are also some really silly things happening in terms of carbon accounting.  I heard something about only counting vegetation that&#039;s higher than 2 metres, that&#039;s something that could actually prove to be quite counterproductive, in my opinion.   That&#039;s just anecdotal from a land management officer a while ago, it&#039;s possible things have progressed significantly since then.

Also, I was pleased to see some comments in the NFF policy regarding forestry as a landuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the greatest hope for rural Australia is actually a carbon economy.  The NFF position statement on the CPRS is actually a genuinely conservative position, which is why Joyce&#8217;s position is such a joke and such a traitor to his constituency.  </p>
<p>I thought the limiting factors for biosequestration were only short-term problems.  ie: the scientific data for each land-type/usage is not there yet.  I know it&#8217;s being done, or at least it is in some of the ecotypes I work in.  </p>
<p>Mind you there are also some really silly things happening in terms of carbon accounting.  I heard something about only counting vegetation that&#8217;s higher than 2 metres, that&#8217;s something that could actually prove to be quite counterproductive, in my opinion.   That&#8217;s just anecdotal from a land management officer a while ago, it&#8217;s possible things have progressed significantly since then.</p>
<p>Also, I was pleased to see some comments in the NFF policy regarding forestry as a landuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Keithy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836104</link>
		<dc:creator>Keithy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836104</guid>
		<description>Are they just replacing the 50% that are over 30 years old?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are they just replacing the 50% that are over 30 years old?!?</p>
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		<title>By: carbonsink</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-3/#comment-836095</link>
		<dc:creator>carbonsink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836095</guid>
		<description>Keithy@100:  Dunno, ask the Poms, they&#039;re &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6532905/Ten-new-nuclear-power-stations-given-go-ahead.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;building ten of them&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keithy@100:  Dunno, ask the Poms, they&#8217;re <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6532905/Ten-new-nuclear-power-stations-given-go-ahead.html" rel="nofollow">building ten of them</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Keithy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836082</link>
		<dc:creator>Keithy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836082</guid>
		<description>All I want to know is: where are the reactors going??!!?? Anyone?!?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I want to know is: where are the reactors going??!!?? Anyone?!?!</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Barlow</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836077</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Barlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836077</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A carbon negative country? Good luck with that. Are we going kick 153 million Bangladeshis out of their homes and farms and turn the whole country into forest?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course not. But lets face it, if there&#039;s a country better placed to have algal farms I&#039;d like to know which it was.  1/3 of the place regularly floods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A carbon negative country? Good luck with that. Are we going kick 153 million Bangladeshis out of their homes and farms and turn the whole country into forest?</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course not. But lets face it, if there&#8217;s a country better placed to have algal farms I&#8217;d like to know which it was.  1/3 of the place regularly floods.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Barlow</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836076</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Barlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836076</guid>
		<description>This Elise is why agriculture and forestry and transport ought to be in an ETS.

Let all of their emissions and sequestration activity be properly accounted for. Those farmers who were doing high quality biosequestration could be paid for their efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Elise is why agriculture and forestry and transport ought to be in an ETS.</p>
<p>Let all of their emissions and sequestration activity be properly accounted for. Those farmers who were doing high quality biosequestration could be paid for their efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Elise</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836072</link>
		<dc:creator>Elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836072</guid>
		<description>Carbonsink @96, Barnaby looked and sounded like a total prat on the news segment where he was supposedly informing the farmers.

Barnaby didn&#039;t say anything sensible at all.  Just a pile of blustering hot air.  Hopefully the farmers are smarter than he thinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carbonsink @96, Barnaby looked and sounded like a total prat on the news segment where he was supposedly informing the farmers.</p>
<p>Barnaby didn&#8217;t say anything sensible at all.  Just a pile of blustering hot air.  Hopefully the farmers are smarter than he thinks.</p>
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		<title>By: carbonsink</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836063</link>
		<dc:creator>carbonsink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836063</guid>
		<description>Fran@94:  A carbon negative country?  Good luck with that.  Are we going kick 153 million Bangladeshis out of their homes and farms and turn the whole country into forest?

Its just excuse after excuse for not doing anything in Australia.
&lt;blockquote&gt;why are we proposing to use ETS to support forestry in other countries, and yet apparently not allow our farmers to claim credits for biosequestration projects here?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No idea.  Seems like a win win to me.  Perhaps its because Barnaby is running around scaring the bejesus out of the farmers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fran@94:  A carbon negative country?  Good luck with that.  Are we going kick 153 million Bangladeshis out of their homes and farms and turn the whole country into forest?</p>
<p>Its just excuse after excuse for not doing anything in Australia.</p>
<blockquote><p>why are we proposing to use ETS to support forestry in other countries, and yet apparently not allow our farmers to claim credits for biosequestration projects here?</p></blockquote>
<p>No idea.  Seems like a win win to me.  Perhaps its because Barnaby is running around scaring the bejesus out of the farmers?</p>
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		<title>By: Elise</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836060</link>
		<dc:creator>Elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836060</guid>
		<description>Speaking of forestry projects and algal farms, why are we proposing to use ETS to support forestry in other countries, and yet apparently not allow our farmers to claim credits for biosequestration projects here?

I don&#039;t understand the logic.  Are the Rudd government and their advisors more interested in the &quot;market&quot; idea than the actual practical implications?

And why aren&#039;t there more stories about &quot;green oil&quot; instead of black oil?  Our farmers must have a few spare paddocks that they could devote to green algae farming, if there was a market for it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of forestry projects and algal farms, why are we proposing to use ETS to support forestry in other countries, and yet apparently not allow our farmers to claim credits for biosequestration projects here?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand the logic.  Are the Rudd government and their advisors more interested in the &#8220;market&#8221; idea than the actual practical implications?</p>
<p>And why aren&#8217;t there more stories about &#8220;green oil&#8221; instead of black oil?  Our farmers must have a few spare paddocks that they could devote to green algae farming, if there was a market for it?</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Barlow</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/09/denial-on-parade/comment-page-2/#comment-836005</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Barlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10763#comment-836005</guid>
		<description>CS said that we couldn&#039;t reduce our emissions by much if they were all concentrated in Ghana Bangladesh &amp; Guatemala ...

But that&#039;s misleading because with forestry projects, or algal farms, for example, we might make them &lt;i&gt;carbon negative&lt;/i&gt;. Also some of the emissions of these countries are embedded in the imports they demand, so if we were able to foreclose, for example imports of certain CO2-intensive goods and have them made there near zero ...

Of course, I was only doing a for instance ... Plainly, we&#039;d want a much wider pool than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CS said that we couldn&#8217;t reduce our emissions by much if they were all concentrated in Ghana Bangladesh &amp; Guatemala &#8230;</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s misleading because with forestry projects, or algal farms, for example, we might make them <i>carbon negative</i>. Also some of the emissions of these countries are embedded in the imports they demand, so if we were able to foreclose, for example imports of certain CO2-intensive goods and have them made there near zero &#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, I was only doing a for instance &#8230; Plainly, we&#8217;d want a much wider pool than that.</p>
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