Under the legislation, police would be allowed to frisk search anyone in designated public areas at certain times even if there were no grounds to suspect they were involved in criminal behaviour.

Mr Chaney and Mr McCusker said it was a humiliating and intrusive act, with people forced to remove outer clothing such as jackets before being patted down and scanned with devices while in public. Previously, police had to prove a reasonable suspicion of crime to search people.

Mr Chaney said the average person should fear the “over-the-top” security measure as an intrusion of their civil rights. “This sort of thing certainly can occur in an African dictatorship or Eastern Europe, but I don’t think any country we identify with as a democratic civilised country would have such a law,” he said.

Rewi, mine was a rhetorical question really. I think my original complaint about the stop and search bill was that it emanated from the Police Commissioner because his men “didn’t like” having to to explain to a judge every time they wanted to use their existing stop and search powers with particular individuals! So inconvenient! They’ll be asking for instant house search warrants in the same way if they get away with this. Do you think they understand “habeas corpus” or will they find that principle inconvenient too?

Thanks for those statistics though, they very much confirm my own sense of how law abiding this community is, compared say with Sydney where I lived until quite recently.

Why do you criticise Adele Carles for voting against a Bill you so vehemently oppose? What compromise of ’stop and search’ would you have liked? In the end the ALP voted against it too.

You should be glad (and proud to have Fremantle represented by) Adele, if you care about Indigenous issues, because she will not miss an opportunity to raise those issues at every opportunity. Which will make a nice change. If you remember what happened to Mr Ward you will know that we need more voices like Adele’s in the Parliament.

A party is not necessarily ‘impotent’ because they don’t have the numbers to push legislation through. The Greens have improved many pieces of legislation by having amendments accepted. They help to keep the government on its toes by their questions, especially of the budget estimates; their opinions are heard and taken into account in committee reports; their presence reminds the government that 10% of the community voted specifically for social justice and environmental sustainability; they’re a focus and support for many groups in the community.

“God help the state if by some weird aberration the Greens get anywhere in Willagee.” You don’t think you’re being slightly hysterical here Patricia? I would predict the Greens will do pretty badly in Willagee – but if they won, wouldn’t 2 Green MLAs be just as impotent as one?

Before the debate was interrupted earlier today, I was thanking the Minister for Police for the briefing on this bill. I mentioned that this bill has been introduced because the minister has stated that there has been a proliferation of weapons and an increase in instances of violence. I was shown the figures for the past 15 months. In fact, during the break the member for Riverton showed me some figures from the past 15 years. It was interesting to note that over the past 15 years the figures for Northbridge had increased slightly until 2005-06, but have fallen since then. Even though the numbers, particularly for assaults, have fallen over the past couple of years, the number of assaults in that area is unacceptable.

What’s that? No significant increase in the prevalence of weapons or assaults in Northbridge in the past 15 years? An actual drop in the past 3?

Who’s asking for the laws? The WA Police Force.

Russell – why should I be “glad, thinking of Indigenous Affairs, that Adele Carles is in the parliament?” She has shown all the usual green Green incapacity for compromise to achieve practical outcomes in the Legislative Assembly over the stop and search laws. Judging by her stance she is unlikely to be of use in any future legislative stand-offs either. Now young Aboriginal youths are even more likely to end up in jail than before. The two similarly vocal and “principled” Green MLCs are impotent since they don’t hold the balance of power in the Legislative Council as they once did. God help the state if by some weird aberration the Greens get anywhere in Willagee.

Re law and order, stop and search powers etc. Who asked for all this extra regulation and police presence in Northbridge and other night life hubs? I don’t get the impression that pub and restaurant owners are asking for it or even like it. And if they were, what’s wrong with their providing their own security as in the past? Surely licensing laws can be strictly supervised re. the responsibility for keeping orderly houses? All this funding, focus and forcefulness from the police simply enhances those trouble spots for the usual suspects and attracts even more of them looking for the excitement of a punch-up. Even when they did occur in the past such incidents were still not everyday and were attended by police more than adequately armed and with full backing of the law.

What do they say? “Where attention goes, energy flows.” Time perhaps for the City Council to get working on a positive picture of a pleasant and law abiding Perth which doesn’t need undue police presence for its citizens to go out for a pleasant evening’s entertainment. It shouldn’t be difficult because that’s the reality here.

I fear this may be a vain hope. Over here we consider ourselves a breed apart. WA, to its inhabitants, represents the epitome of nature’s and man’s [deliberate sexism] achievements. If outsiders ridicule us for our supposedly backward ways and lazy attitudes it is because they are jealous of our nirvana. The rank stupidity of the current idea to implement extended trading hours or the lack of interest in extending police powers are testament to the slack-jawedness of the general population. And the local “newspaper” doesn’t help.
That an MP can mention with approval the SD in parliament just added to the embarassment or strengthens the resolve depending on your level of parochialism.

If so, I believe that Russell has understated just how enthralling the state is.

Katz, have you been involved in too many bitter ALP pre-selection battles? This is a discussion, nobody has to convince anyone, nobody has to win. I have allowed you the enjoyment of playing your usual word games, even though, as became apparent, Anna’s post actually didn’t give you enough to do anything with. Instead of your usual clever moves, you had to just keep picking up your precarious pawn and haphazardly placing it wherever you might hope it could live a little longer.

W.A. politics is probably best left to we who live here, Katz. Rewi and I are glued to our monitors viewing the enthralling spectacle of Parliament live. So we have the advantage of being able to place Peter Abetz’ remarks in context. Peter, I think, is one of Parliament’s pleasant, genial lightweights – you find them on both sides. Not spectacularly energetic and entertaining like Troy, who’s bound to attract equally energetic responses. But Peter ? nah, a nice enough bloke, who doesn’t deserve to have stories made up about him being an apologist for the nazis.

Patricia – unusually for me, I can remember exactly the moment I decided I wouldn’t let my preference vote go to Labor at the last state election (I was always a Labor voter ’till I moved to the Greens). That was when Alan Carpenter made his Premier’s Statement on Indigenous Affairs. I was watching the broadcast. And I hadn’t been so angry at politics for years. Indigenous Affairs, ’till then, for me, was a background issue. By the time Alan got to the end of his lousy speech I had reached the “For God’s sake, just go!” stage. No doubt many ALP voters in NSW are at that stage now. Aren’t you glad, thinking of Indigenous Affairs, that Adele Carles is in the parliament?

The freddo frog story was just amazing. Seriously, you couldn’t write satire and do a better job than that Maybe if you had a story about some blackfella being charged with recieving stolen property for exercising their native title rights.

That’ll probably happen next week anyway.

I hope you are right about most Western Australians btw. The fear of ridicule/contempt can be a powerful thing. It can inspire half decent behaviour when not much else will.

Earlier @ 182 you observed, “Abetz’ comments and this incident … they go well together don’t they?” You’re absolutely right. And the Freddo Frog fracas is doing more to highlight our problems here with increasingly excessive police power than any swastika spraying on public buildings can ever do. Surely too the TV news appearance and foolish comments of the regional Superintendent responsible must have amazed the public at large. Even Karl O’Callaghan the State Commissioner for Police who announced withdrawal of the case foolishly supported the original decision to charge this child. There wouldn’t be a parent with kids whose blood didn’t run cold at the thought of their little or even bigger darlings being hauled up in court for accepting the invitation of the supermarkets to help themselves to a Freddo Frog or Wagon Wheel so generously laid out for them alongside the checkout.

When the likes of Peter van Onselen are writing in the Australian to seriously question the legislation giving increased stop and search powers to WA police then surely Barnet and Christian Porter will understand they are swinging the pendulum too far to the right. Mind you, if Abetz is in any way typical of Liberal party political savvy they could end shooting themselves in the foot here, not because West Australians are care excessively about civil rightsor even racism. However they sure don’t like being depicted as a bunch of knuckleheads who can’t deal with a bit of petty shop lifting by blacks kids and noisy TGIF celebrations in our pubs without armed police intervention.

On the other hand, you have provided an opportunity to discuss and dissect for several days the dog whistles and insincerities of a particularly odious member of state parliament.

This has apparently had some minor beneficial results.

Thanks for your contribution.

I did hear that the kid who was charged with recieving got a freddo and a small novelty sign, either way the total value was less than 5 bucks.

but really thats just being pedantic, it makes no difference if it was a frog and a silly sign or just a frog.

Its appalling that those police powers are being expanded.

I’m pretty much over giving Abetz any benefit of the doubt.

Fuck him. His grandad was a Nazi war criminal and he comes out with this shit in the process of justifying increased police powers.

Someone should go spray swastikas on his office or something.

Your mistake doesn’t surprise me.

“denialism like Abetz’” do you see the mistake in that phrase?

Katz you’re like the roadrunner, who in single-minded pursuit of nazis has run right off the cliff …. a catastrophic fall is the only way for you to go now.

None of us know what he or his mother thinks were the causes of the insecurity,

Yes we do.

Abetz quotes his mother as saying that the Brownshirts augmented her security.

Why do you continue to exist in denial about this inescapable fact?

And I note that you have not denied that in certain jurisdictions denialism like Abetz’ is a criminal offence.